Others Kings Fall [v0.2.7.1] [Bastard Games]
- Thread starter redknight00
- Start date
- Nov 18, 2016
- 4,213
- 9,583
suggestion: Probably a good idea to gate the bestiality behind a corruption route.. cause well it is in strong conflict to the love route, and well the quest doesn't leave the quests tab constantly reminding the players who avoid it that it is there.
like.. the deeper one plays the game... the less harem the love route is... cause you have all this other niche non-harem content constantly popping up on the harem route.
Like makes no sense to ask about beast content, when on a harem playthrough, cause well.... it ain't harem.
like.. the deeper one plays the game... the less harem the love route is... cause you have all this other niche non-harem content constantly popping up on the harem route.
Like makes no sense to ask about beast content, when on a harem playthrough, cause well.... it ain't harem.
- Sep 13, 2017
- 2,744
- 5,412
It's used as a plot device to basically punish Leonore for not accepting the Duality. The game asks if you want it to stop/continue before it goes much harder but overall it's teasing and groping. After that point, Leonore's story will follow through to her revenge of Sam if you're on the Lovers Route.
I thought about that but since Beastiality is just a dog, it's not really like he's actively trying to steal/Corrupt. It's just a dog and that fact will keep getting brought up since Asuna and Leonore are still under the effects of the Suggestion. Their focus is entirely on the Hero outside the story so having both Lovers/Corruption states intwertwine appeals to me personally on a writing level. But I'll look into it. Forbidden Card content is something I wanted accessible to everyone despite of the themes being used as DC content.
I like writing with freedom. Pulling that back means I have to write one way and one way only.
- Nov 18, 2016
- 4,213
- 9,583
.... Then you should probably edit the dev note and what you have told players... because MC gets more NTR than you lead us to beleive.
Also the dialogue is worded as if Sam has his way with her completely... not that it was just teasing or groping, but that she was well and truly his cumrag. But without explicit detail, but heavily implied.
" The remaining 5% is NTR for one of the characters in the game but there is no penetration (Only groping). It's meant as a story mechanic that forces that character into your arms. The end result is you can then keep that character as a Lover going forward."
Specifically this part: "It's meant as a story mechanic that forces that character into your arms. The end result is you can then keep that character as a Lover going forward."
This simply isn't true, because you have it in the game to make leonore a Lover before that happens. You make her MCs woman before he is gone for that period of time.
So there is more NTR with that character than described, and it is where it matters most (after being a full LI), you can semi-get away with the groping before, but now that they are a full LI, and it is full NTR, with the implication that it went all the way...
You can't call that wholesome... not to mention the drama from the trauma of that... would make her less loyal in general because she would then have trust issues....
.... the fact the Lis are f*cking a dog... stops it from being wholesome...
Like think about it this way, there is nothing harem route players would love more, than knowing the LIs would be more than happy to fuck a dog on their harem play through right? (sarcasm... they would hate it, and wish they never knew).
And the lovers route is supposed to be wholesome... ain't nothing wholesome about your lover f*cking your dog.... it makes zero sense for it to be on the lovers route at all, cause then it isn't really a lovers route... it is a sharing route... with a dog.
And the way it is done, having them to yourself comes across as the Optional not-main route, with the dog content being the normal canon route. (i.e. you are opting out of content, that the default would be opt in, not going out of their way to opt into niche content on a route that.. shouldn't even have niche content to begin with).
Creative freedom is one thing, but you also need consistency.
Is it actually a lovers route? or is it a sharing route with the lovers route being an option on that route? (I say it more broadly, because there are a few other things that come across in the same manner, although dog is most obvious).
Like Beast content falls into the same category as NTR when it comes to extreme niche. It ostracizes the players that are into vanilla just as much (if not more). So you can't really handle it like it is "anal" or something.
Not to mention... "Corruption"... beast content is one of the most corrupt things, that can't be wholesome.
Like, being completely honest... I could have sorta looked past the first part... but this second thing was the nail in the coffin for me, I enjoy the game, but the niche content that I hate and want to avoid, constantly being there.... just ruins it.
And both of them are rooted from Leonore XD first the NTR, then the beast content also starts with her.... And you trying to tell me her route has wholesome? sure you can bullshit it and force it with dialogue.... but it comes across as a slap in the face because of how unbelievable it is.
e.g. "Fucking a dog" is something a lover would never do.... that is depraved hedonism... nothing wholesome or loving about it. (not shaming the content... it just simple isn't romantic... in the slightest... its a fkn dog).
Anyway, I believe I have articulated what I wanted to say, long comment i know, just wanted to make sure the point I am trying to make is clear.
I understand you are doing varied content, but you really have to be careful with conflicting genres that can't co-exist, and romance vs beast is one of them, romance vs NTR being another :S
e.g. an LI saying "I only love you MC, and only want you" but then goes and fucks a dog... means they lied.
Cause they would never do that even if MC wanted them to, if they actually meant those words.
It's the whole "I have always loved you MC" but fucked 100 other dudes while supposedly loving him. (yes that is an actual thing that is in a story... and the author was trying to write vanilla only....)
If I was to summarise it with one point: "Actions, not words" the LIs can say whatever you want them to, but if their actions don't reflect that, it won't land and just seem silly... and even insulting to some extent.
Anyway, do with that what you will, if you want to keep it that way, then by all means do. I would suggest to at least change the wording... cause lovers route... isn't really a lovers route tbh, despite me doing everything to keep it as much "Lovers" as possible. (the side characters were more like lovers than the main characters :| )
- Apr 20, 2018
- 891
- 3,271
someone tried to rope me into playing this game, thanks bobdillan for the warning, and yay me for due diligence
- Sep 13, 2017
- 2,744
- 5,412
- Sep 13, 2017
- 2,744
- 5,412
I'll look into this for the next update. I'm sure I can have a compromise for Leonore and Tiny.... Then you should probably edit the dev note and what you have told players... because MC gets more NTR than you lead us to beleive.
Also the dialogue is worded as if Sam has his way with her completely... not that it was just teasing or groping, but that she was well and truly his cumrag. But without explicit detail, but heavily implied.
" The remaining 5% is NTR for one of the characters in the game but there is no penetration (Only groping). It's meant as a story mechanic that forces that character into your arms. The end result is you can then keep that character as a Lover going forward."
Specifically this part: "It's meant as a story mechanic that forces that character into your arms. The end result is you can then keep that character as a Lover going forward."
This simply isn't true, because you have it in the game to make leonore a Lover before that happens. You make her MCs woman before he is gone for that period of time.
So there is more NTR with that character than described, and it is where it matters most (after being a full LI), you can semi-get away with the groping before, but now that they are a full LI, and it is full NTR, with the implication that it went all the way...
You can't call that wholesome... not to mention the drama from the trauma of that... would make her less loyal in general because she would then have trust issues....
.... the fact the Lis are f*cking a dog... stops it from being wholesome...
Like think about it this way, there is nothing harem route players would love more, than knowing the LIs would be more than happy to fuck a dog on their harem play through right? (sarcasm... they would hate it, and wish they never knew).
And the lovers route is supposed to be wholesome... ain't nothing wholesome about your lover f*cking your dog.... it makes zero sense for it to be on the lovers route at all, cause then it isn't really a lovers route... it is a sharing route... with a dog.
And the way it is done, having them to yourself comes across as the Optional not-main route, with the dog content being the normal canon route. (i.e. you are opting out of content, that the default would be opt in, not going out of their way to opt into niche content on a route that.. shouldn't even have niche content to begin with).
Creative freedom is one thing, but you also need consistency.
Is it actually a lovers route? or is it a sharing route with the lovers route being an option on that route? (I say it more broadly, because there are a few other things that come across in the same manner, although dog is most obvious).
Like Beast content falls into the same category as NTR when it comes to extreme niche. It ostracizes the players that are into vanilla just as much (if not more). So you can't really handle it like it is "anal" or something.
Not to mention... "Corruption"... beast content is one of the most corrupt things, that can't be wholesome.
Like, being completely honest... I could have sorta looked past the first part... but this second thing was the nail in the coffin for me, I enjoy the game, but the niche content that I hate and want to avoid, constantly being there.... just ruins it.
And both of them are rooted from Leonore XD first the NTR, then the beast content also starts with her.... And you trying to tell me her route has wholesome? sure you can bullshit it and force it with dialogue.... but it comes across as a slap in the face because of how unbelievable it is.
e.g. "Fucking a dog" is something a lover would never do.... that is depraved hedonism... nothing wholesome or loving about it. (not shaming the content... it just simple isn't romantic... in the slightest... its a fkn dog).
Anyway, I believe I have articulated what I wanted to say, long comment i know, just wanted to make sure the point I am trying to make is clear.
I understand you are doing varied content, but you really have to be careful with conflicting genres that can't co-exist, and romance vs beast is one of them, romance vs NTR being another :S
e.g. an LI saying "I only love you MC, and only want you" but then goes and fucks a dog... means they lied.
Cause they would never do that even if MC wanted them to, if they actually meant those words.
It's the whole "I have always loved you MC" but fucked 100 other dudes while supposedly loving him. (yes that is an actual thing that is in a story... and the author was trying to write vanilla only....)
If I was to summarise it with one point: "Actions, not words" the LIs can say whatever you want them to, but if their actions don't reflect that, it won't land and just seem silly... and even insulting to some extent.
Anyway, do with that what you will, if you want to keep it that way, then by all means do. I would suggest to at least change the wording... cause lovers route... isn't really a lovers route tbh, despite me doing everything to keep it as much "Lovers" as possible. (the side characters were more like lovers than the main characters :| )
- Nov 18, 2016
- 4,213
- 9,583
Don't mean to preach btw.
just thought it important, because of who the target market for the lovers route is.
And given the way I think about things, I was already making up an idea of how i would do it to take that market :S (am a copywriter, so thinking about sales and target markets is what I sorta do).
I 100% think more devs should learn this, since the biggest mistake I often see, is that they unintentionally do things that that specific market wouldn't like and drives them away.
If you genuinely wish to keep it the way it is, by all means do, just do it knowing what cost it comes at. (in this case, a chunk of the vanilla fandom, and harem fandom, i.e. those who don't tolerate it).
Although given how loosely "avoidable" has been used, the amount of people willing to even tolerate the tag being on the game at all, is rapidly shrinking. Where you need something else to pull them in, which this has maple story theme and gameplay to draw them in still. (I would almost suggest instead of two different routes, just have two different games if you were to remake this project, or if it was just starting out).
- Sep 13, 2017
- 2,744
- 5,412
Make sure to speak to Tru before you go hunting for it. It should be the Red dot in the beach area to the lower right of the map.
No I get it, I'm more than fair to compromise since there's no way I'm going to rewrite anything. The other thing is someone PM'd me and reminded me that the game warns you before you begin Tiny's Beast content. It mentions everything you laid out so if players don't wish to see it, they are warned even before the first story bit is introduced. If I can compromise I can but the game does warn you right away so there isn't any surprise with how the content is actually being written and worked into the game (It is also side content that is not explicitly canon either.)
- Nov 18, 2016
- 4,213
- 9,583
fully explaining can be a double edge sword, since those on the lovers route wouldn't want to know about it. So it can kinda make things worse.
Also how it clashes with the whole "Lovers" Route in the first place. Especially when you talk about which LIs are involved and such.
The way I would implement it personally, would be to have a softcore and harcore route for it on the corruption route. instead of a "lovers" and "corruption" variantion, since cause of what it is both are corruption, just how hardcore it is is what is different.
So it would be more something not to have on the "lovers" route. Or have it as a disable-able kink asked about at the start of the game, so the player can opt-out without ever hearing about it.
What confuses me a little personally, is that you have to go out of your way to buy a card for loli content, which is less extreme than beast content.
Which you have to go out and find out about in the first place. So I would suggest to do that actually, since you already have a similar system in place for another tag/niche.
That way the player never has to hear or think about it, without directly seeking it out.
- Nov 18, 2016
- 4,213
- 9,583
Something to further add to explain what I mean here:
As it is done currently, you have the player having built their harem, with the LIs only loving them, and then you get this massive hit to the face of "O btw you LIs are more than happy to fuck a dog, do you want them to?" out of left field.
Which whether or not it is the main cannon or non-cannon route, doesn't matter because it comes across as the main route, since it isn't something they have to seek out but instead fell in their lap.
Ruining the idea that the LIs only want MC, cause well... they would fuck this dog if you let them. completely destroying and idea of the LIs only wanting to be exclusive to MC, and instead replacing it with the idea that "They would fuck this dog, and want to, just that you can choose them not to... but they still wanted to" Know that might not be the intention, but it is how it comes across.
Another thing, is it also breaks immersion from the story, as that pulls them right out going "What the fuck!? I thought the LIs only wanted MC cause of the route I chose?" but now they have another thing saying "They would still fuck someone/something else, will you let them?".
Hence the card thing being a good idea here, because you have to go out of your way intentionally to activate it, in order to even hear about it. (although would call it the "Tiny the dog" card, to be self-explanitory).
- Oct 13, 2016
- 3,514
- 7,306
ok, I have talked to Haseo and I will explain the "skip" function.
so, I updated it after a request that is "too slow" so some people are clicking like madmen or autoclicker to skip ahead.
the new skip function would just "skip", here's how (example)
- u are on page 2 and u use skip
- the function will now change page to 3. if page 3 is just text, it will continue until theres no more
- if theres just text, it will change to next page
- if theres something, like a button/choices, it will stop at that page and u need to choose.
- if theres no more pages, it will leave the "text-mode" and if theres no reward, it will seem it will just exit to map.
after talked to Haseo I decide to add a setting.
so next update u can go to "settings" and pick "normal" or "instant" mode.
so, I updated it after a request that is "too slow" so some people are clicking like madmen or autoclicker to skip ahead.
the new skip function would just "skip", here's how (example)
- u are on page 2 and u use skip
- the function will now change page to 3. if page 3 is just text, it will continue until theres no more
- if theres just text, it will change to next page
- if theres something, like a button/choices, it will stop at that page and u need to choose.
- if theres no more pages, it will leave the "text-mode" and if theres no reward, it will seem it will just exit to map.
after talked to Haseo I decide to add a setting.
so next update u can go to "settings" and pick "normal" or "instant" mode.
Last edited:
Am I the only one who keeps loosing music?
Sometimes when I move the window out of focus. Click on my browser or something the game looses music not sound. The in game music player dies until I restart the game.
Sometimes when I move the window out of focus. Click on my browser or something the game looses music not sound. The in game music player dies until I restart the game.
- Oct 2, 2020
- 71
- 73
for anywone getting the hammering error i think i know what causes it i have no auto clicker but stil get hammering error however i always have my controller hooked up on my pc cause i use my headset on my ps4 controller what seemed too fix it is unplug the controller while the game open and plug it back in no more error crash for now