Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.40.0] [Selebus]

[Mori Enjoyer]

I really hope Maya gets reset to end this particular "route" that we're on; she's definitely become a safety blanket for Akira and watching that get taken away from him could lead to some really interesting storylines.

im expecting for some of the main cast to get wiped probably from floor one at least for a reset or two; maya/chika

maya - pretty obvious with chapter 3 ending horribly from Himawari's dialogue, shadow figures appearing in the background in events she is in and the eventual reveal to see how dangerous Nao-chan's appearance will be. Sure it would suck. I remember almost crying during that reset she didn't make it to the roof on time.

chika - is a shot in the dark when i consider her getting wiped. With her current subplot, moving away from the old district to the urban district(?), issue i see with this is losing the meaning of the buildup to a confrontation with her and Sensei on seeing other girls.

I can't come up with any reasons for any floor two girls to get erased other than Yasu(?)

Yasu - possible death/dormancy of HOPE, introducing Pariedolia and more Himawari dialogue of it could be the last Summer for him and someone else. I can't see how this would erase her though maybe just introduce a new subplot for her.

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Here's the thing, i both want Maya to get reset, and not get reset, cause i think it would be really interesting to see her reset back to how she was, but also... the Maya we know would essentially die... unless Selly, if he reset her, intends to restore her later, i think resetting her would be very risky, dunno if he would lose subscribers but backlash tends to be a bit hard to predict and a lot of fans could react terribly to it. I detest mentioning the game and dev now but i feel like Selly should pay extremely close attention to the reaction Pers0nas got when he created a major shift in his game, i don't think there's a better example of how shit can go downhill if a dev messes with their characters personalities too much. For all intents and purposes, Maya is Maya, altering her so dramatically could really go south.

Well said. Story-wise, resetting Maya probably is an ok direction at the very end of this game. If it’s gonna happen within like 5 updates, however, the effect on the later story would be so grand that I feel like the game itself has to undergo a fundamental change in the formula to properly reflect on the impact.

Like, if we really are going lose Maya soon, there should be no more free roaming and fucking around in this new phase, just Sensei desperately trying to somehow forge a plan to bring Maya back, while suffering immeasurably from solely talking to a chipper Maya. Anything else would just feel very odd
(in an exaggerating sense, the impact is almost like permanently deleting a constant in the universe. Go ahead and do it, but the story that follows after needs to reflect on it hard because you’ve tampered with a core mechanism of the game)

For now I think losing the newest RAS member Ayane should be devastating enough without the need of drastically changing anything, but I’d be super sad though.

 

[k1n5l4y3r]

I think that what will set off the Dark Route is Akira reversing to something worse like he said to Wakana in the "The Desk Scene" event, probably due to the influence of Sekai. Wakana trying to fix Ami, Kaori being possessed by Sekai, Sekai's restored spirit talking to him and probably whatever will happen in the winter will make him revert to seeing the girls as walking, talking fleshlights like the start of the game, but more callous.

 

[DSasha]

I definitely hope Selebus doesn't read this forum anymore, sometimes I'd swear that u guys have worse ideas (in a tragic way) than he already has.

Anyway, someone told me at the start of the game that I shouldn't worry because everything would be okay, so I'm going to think that and that everyone will going to live happily after at the end of the game

 

[Qrash]

Well said. Story-wise, resetting Maya probably is an ok direction at the very end of this game. If it’s gonna happen within like 5 updates, however, the effect on the later story would be so grand that I feel like the game itself has to undergo a fundamental change in the formula to properly reflect on the impact.

Like, if we really are going lose Maya soon, there should be no more free roaming and fucking around in this new phase, just Sensei desperately trying to somehow forge a plan to bring Maya back, while suffering immeasurably from solely talking to a chipper Maya. Anything else would just feel very odd
(in an exaggerating sense, the impact is almost like permanently deleting a constant in the universe. Go ahead and do it, but the story that follows after needs to reflect on it hard because you’ve tampered with a core mechanism of the game)

For now I think losing the newest RAS member Ayane should be devastating enough without the need of drastically changing anything, but I’d be super sad though.

I agree with you but losing Ayane 2.0 would actually destroy me on a fundamental level. Then again losing current Maya would destroy me as well. I like these damn characters too much. But I also agree with Nodoka that it's the things that make us hurt that makes stories truly memorable. We're going to get hurt in some way before this is all over, it's only a matter of who, what, and when.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Anyway, someone told me at the start of the game that I shouldn't worry because everything would be okay, so I'm going to think that and that everyone will going to live happily after at the end of the game

Everything will be fine.

Eventually.

It's everything in the middle that you need to prepare yourself emotionally for.

 

[DeSkel15]

Random Thoughts Time: Honestly, I've been wondering if Sensei might be wiped and replaced with a more Callous version of himself that we'll be forced to helplessly watch, as he destroys the relationships around him.

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[Slub]

I have been following this game for quite some time and have never had any problems, but the last couple versions seem to have quite a few problems.

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[barglenarglezous]

I have been following this game for quite some time and have never had any problems, but the last couple versions seem to have quite a few problems.

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The crash to desktop is literally the game kicking you out for not cooperating. That's not a bug. There are a few other points where you get a false choice like this.

Agreed that the affection thresholds spike too quickly in chapter 3. A save editor is highly recommended.

 

[blackredfish]

Just an idle thought and I don't think that there is any real indication as to this being something that may happen in the future but what about the possibility of a 4 way between Akira, Niki, Otoha and Rin. Just a thought that this may be a way for Otoha to feel better about herself following the kiss with Niki whilst also not losing Rin when coming clean about it.
Like I said, probably no real chance but an idle thought I needed to share to get it out of my head.

I think two threesomes is more likely than a foursome, Akira and Otoha could make a deal where she gets a threesome with Niki in exchange of letting him get into one with Rin. They'd have to convince Niki though, she is open to share Akira but probably not with a teenager. Rin obviously needs no convincing. Now, I think that would be very shitty of Sensei to do, not above him clearly, but definitely a considerable stepback from the little progress he made recently.

Here's the thing, i both want Maya to get reset, and not get reset, cause i think it would be really interesting to see her reset back to how she was, but also... the Maya we know would essentially die... unless Selly, if he reset her, intends to restore her later, i think resetting her would be very risky, dunno if he would lose subscribers but backlash tends to be a bit hard to predict and a lot of fans could react terribly to it. I detest mentioning the game and dev now but i feel like Selly should pay extremely close attention to the reaction Pers0nas got when he created a major shift in his game, i don't think there's a better example of how shit can go downhill if a dev messes with their characters personalities too much. For all intents and purposes, Maya is Maya, altering her so dramatically could really go south.

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Edit: doing a spoiler flag to hide that wall of text because holy shit.

 

[DeSkel15]

At the beggining one could thought that the break up would be that point where things could start getting really bad for Rin again, but at this point that seems rather nice, being in an endless relationship full of lies, physical and emotional abuse leading to self deprecation, low autoestime, depression and some other stuff sounds more like the real dark route.

Anyway it's not the relationship with Otoha what pisses me off the most, but how mean she was with Molly despite she being one of her closest friends, knowing his feelings and knowing Molly was in basically the same situation she once was with Chika, and all of that for a girl that she doesn't even love!
But seeing how she just tried to avoid everything and only came back to talk to Molly to give her some shitty lessons about life when she is not nearly in a possition to teach anyone anything, that really pissed me off.
Not even Chika was that selfish with Rin, and they weren't even real friends.


Pd: I think tonight I will sleep better after finally being able to rant all my hate about this topic lol
Pd2: I still love Rin, I just think that for a friend of her, she could have been better, and I mean, waaaay better.

Considering Molly has more or less sexually assaulted Rin twice:

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On top of disregarding Rin's feelings:

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To get what she wanted.

The fact Rin didn't try to press charges against Molly or at least cut all ties with her, shows how "good" (more like lenient) of a friend she is, and how shitty Molly has been.

I think Rin not telling Futaba or Chika how Sensei has been sleeping with others is far worse than refusing to be Molly's slave, and even that's at least understandable considering they are all her friends and she's stuck in the middle of a fucked up love triangle.

 

[barglenarglezous]

I think Rin not telling Futaba or Chika how Sensei has been sleeping with others is far worse than refusing to be Molly's slave, and even that's at least understandable considering they are all her friends and she's stuck in the middle of a fucked up love triangle.

Rin knowing exactly what Molly was going to do and saying "you're not my type, you know this" tells me that Molly has done this off screen at least once, as well.

 

[alex2011]

Here's the thing, i both want Maya to get reset, and not get reset, cause i think it would be really interesting to see her reset back to how she was, but also... the Maya we know would essentially die... unless Selly, if he reset her, intends to restore her later, i think resetting her would be very risky, dunno if he would lose subscribers but backlash tends to be a bit hard to predict and a lot of fans could react terribly to it. I detest mentioning the game and dev now but i feel like Selly should pay extremely close attention to the reaction Pers0nas got when he created a major shift in his game, i don't think there's a better example of how shit can go downhill if a dev messes with their characters personalities too much. For all intents and purposes, Maya is Maya, altering her so dramatically could really go south.

Resseting Maya would be basically killing the character, I can't see that working, rather than sad/dramatic It would be something annoying, one thing is making your characters miserable, and other totally different is just toying with them.

Idk, I think that would make me really upset

Yes, but as stated earlier, it would remove a safety net for Sensei. As it is now, she is just about the only thing keeping him out of the real big problems going on. Remove that and we get to see him spiral in an unpredictable way, making things very interesting, especially for theory crafting.

Here's the issue with not resetting her and not removing the safety net for Sensei, we aren't going to get anywhere. We will just keep spinning our wheels in this happier slice of life style part and never actually get to what makes a Denpa game what it is. That safety net needs to go.

Yeah, that's a good point too. I really only want it to kick off the real dark route, because some drastic stuff WILL have to occur for that route to properly start/continue anyway, right? Death isn't the only way for an author to make a drastic change that takes the game in a dark direction. Who knows what Maya really was like before her eternity in purgatory? People here have speculated that she's been the one who's gone off the deep end before in prior iterations of Sensei. I'm very confident in saying that Sel's writing is vastly superior to p0's was, in any case, so I'm sure he'll handle this well and I'm sure he's planned out what he intends to do.

Or at least I hope so.

Exactly, death is not a necessity in this genre, it's just common. The real horror comes from those who are still alive changing so drastically that they no longer act like themselves. Familiar characters doing unfamiliar things as defined on VNDB. I would have to agree on the comparison between developers, even removing my siding with Sel on the topic of LiL, SO was simply not written as well. I'll say it again, it's like that game tries to be like a LiL without the Denpa, but the Denpa is a defining factor in LiL. You cannot remove defining factors without changing the formula so drastically that the product stops being what it was. He essentially tried to make an entirely slice of life version, which relies extremely heavily on the characters being defined and staying within that definition. Denpa games like LiL do the exact opposite as part of their horror elements.

As for Maya herself, yeah, considering how she blew up on first seeing Noriko, which is completely against what we had seen up to that point for Maya, I would not be the least bit surprised if she really was a control freak that flew off the handle very quickly and not actually as calm as we've seen her since the beginning.

But if someone had to be "reseted" I whish that would be Rin (and eliminating Otoha in the procces if not asking too much).

She was one of my favourites characters during the first two chapters, but I can't stand her since the Ch3 started, If I had to say who's the worst person in the game, she surely wouldn't be, but she would be the worst friend.

Eliminating Otoha isn't going to happen, at least not before the dark route is already underway. I could see her ending up a victim of revenge once things start taking a turn toward their absolute darkest. There's no setup for her being reset or eliminated at this point, but there is for Maya.

I feel like Rin breaking up with Otoha is inevitable. It would be better for them both if they separated.

Definitely gonna happen at this rate and I predict very soon as in the next couple Rin or Otoha updates, I think that might even be the next big drama to set Rin off into her depressed state again.

Just an idle thought and I don't think that there is any real indication as to this being something that may happen in the future but what about the possibility of a 4 way between Akira, Niki, Otoha and Rin. Just a thought that this may be a way for Otoha to feel better about herself following the kiss with Niki whilst also not losing Rin when coming clean about it.
Like I said, probably no real chance but an idle thought I needed to share to get it out of my head.

Yeah, I think Rin and Otoha are past the point of no return in their relationship, I don't see it being salvaged.

Well said. Story-wise, resetting Maya probably is an ok direction at the very end of this game. If it’s gonna happen within like 5 updates, however, the effect on the later story would be so grand that I feel like the game itself has to undergo a fundamental change in the formula to properly reflect on the impact.

Like, if we really are going lose Maya soon, there should be no more free roaming and fucking around in this new phase, just Sensei desperately trying to somehow forge a plan to bring Maya back, while suffering immeasurably from solely talking to a chipper Maya. Anything else would just feel very odd
(in an exaggerating sense, the impact is almost like permanently deleting a constant in the universe. Go ahead and do it, but the story that follows after needs to reflect on it hard because you’ve tampered with a core mechanism of the game)

For now I think losing the newest RAS member Ayane should be devastating enough without the need of drastically changing anything, but I’d be super sad though.

What we've been seeing staying the way it is is contrary to the stated genre of the game, where things are known to get real dark, sometimes even deadly, so a fundamental shift is likely, especially around the dark route. I disagree on the free roam, the player should be the one directing as we have been, but within this darker atmosphere expected within the Denpa genre instead of the basic slice of life we've been seeing. Oddity is well within the realm of Denpa, in fact, its most heavily defining feature could be considered feeling very odd. I agree this would need to reflect heavily, any lack of emphasis on the game's genre once that comes into full effect would be a major issue beyond even the most popular character being killed off entirely. At that point, even making the game exclusively about that character would not fix the damage, it would be irreparable not to focus extremely heavily on the Denpa element at that point.

I think that what will set off the Dark Route is Akira reversing to something worse like he said to Wakana in the "The Desk Scene" event, probably due to the influence of Sekai. Wakana trying to fix Ami, Kaori being possessed by Sekai, Sekai's restored spirit talking to him and probably whatever will happen in the winter will make him revert to seeing the girls as walking, talking fleshlights like the start of the game, but more callous.

Random Thoughts Time: Honestly, I've been wondering if Sensei might be wiped and replaced with a more Callous version of himself that we'll be forced to helplessly watch, as he destroys the relationships around him.

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I could see this and the mental image is not pretty.

 

[5A 61 68 79 6E 68 79 6B]

I definitely hope Selebus doesn't read this forum anymore, sometimes I'd swear that u guys have worse ideas (in a tragic way) than he already has.

Anyway, someone told me at the start of the game that I shouldn't worry because everything would be okay, so I'm going to think that and that everyone will going to live happily after at the end of the game

I don't know, it's all such nice ideas. At Selebus they are quite light, and here, too, everything is very easy and sugary.

The main thing is not to open my box of really interesting ideas

 

[k1n5l4y3r]

I just know that this is a phrase in the game that I HOPE is realized later on:

 

[DSasha]

Considering Molly has more or less sexually assaulted Rin twice

The fact Rin didn't try to press charges against Molly

refusing to be Molly's slave

Yeah, I think this is trying to take things further that how really were; Especially when you're citing the same event where Rin clearly says that she can look past on those things because she know the nature of Molly actions were never with the intention on doing harm or almost-raping anyone, which is basically what you are suggesting.

¿What Molly did was bad? Yeah, of course, I never tried to say the opposite, Molly screwed up, and Rin had even the right to be mad and cut ties unilaterally for those actions, but what pisses Rin and what actually led her to cut ties with Molly, as you cited, was the fact that Molly disregarded his feelings and acted still knowing that she was falling for Otoha.

Now, what I'm saying actually is what Rin herself said

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This time Rin were in Chika's shoes, with the exception that the other girl was a real close friend of her, and I think a good friend would have at least tried to hear what the other had to say, even if the answer she would have given to Molly wasn't the one she was expecting
C'mon, during a lot of events before the beach trip Molly was acting weird/sad and basically everyone noted that, obviously Rin noticed too, with the difference she did know the reason, no one is obligated to take responsability for how other people feels, but is your friend right there who's suffering, seriously you can tell me that you're seeing your friend having a bad time for months and that you're not going to do anything despite knowing the reason? Show some empathy!

And

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AlthoughI wouldn't say that that was worse, what Rin did was bad too, Molly hurt Rin, and Rin hurt Molly and she knew, but Molly tried to reach Rin, Molly was worried about her friend, about the things that happened, Molly tried to do something about Rin feelings; What did Rin do? Nothing

There's somehing that is called emotional responsibility, and Rin doesn't have any.
As I said, Chika did better for Rin than what Rin did for Molly, and Chika wasn't even Rin's friend

pd: yeah, windows not activated not my pc

 

[DSasha]

And also I want say:

"Teenagers are Trying to have a discussion in a forum is exhausting..."

Not my first time using a forum but it always takes me a lot of time just writing one message

 

[DeSkel15]

Yeah, I think this is trying to take things further that how really were; Especially when you're citing the same event where Rin clearly says that she can look past on those things because she know the nature of Molly actions were never with the intention on doing harm or almost-raping anyone, which is basically what you are suggesting.

¿What Molly did was bad? Yeah, of course, I never tried to say the opposite, Molly screwed up, and Rin had even the right to be mad and cut ties unilaterally for those actions, but what pisses Rin and what actually led her to cut ties with Molly, as you cited, was the fact that Molly disregarded his feelings and acted still knowing that she was falling for Otoha.

Now, what I'm saying actually is what Rin herself said

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This time Rin were in Chika's shoes, with the exception that the other girl was a real close friend of her, and I think a good friend would have at least tried to hear what the other had to say, even if the answer she would have given to Molly wasn't the one she was expecting
C'mon, during a lot of events before the beach trip Molly was acting weird/sad and basically everyone noted that, obviously Rin noticed too, with the difference she did know the reason, no one is obligated to take responsability for how other people feels, but is your friend right there who's suffering, seriously you can tell me that you're seeing your friend having a bad time for months and that you're not going to do anything despite knowing the reason? Show some empathy!

And

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AlthoughI wouldn't say that that was worse, what Rin did was bad too, Molly hurt Rin, and Rin hurt Molly and she knew, but Molly tried to reach Rin, Molly was worried about her friend, about the things that happened, Molly tried to do something about Rin feelings; What did Rin do? Nothing

There's somehing that is called emotional responsibility, and Rin doesn't have any.
As I said, Chika did better for Rin than what Rin did for Molly, and Chika wasn't even Rin's friend

pd: yeah, windows not activated not my pc

I'd say the opposite. You're completely ignoring that Molly knew that Rin didn't like her like that:

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and still did everything she did. Molly was intentionally forcing herself onto Rin, even though she knew Rin wouldn't like it.

It's comparable to how Sensei forced himself on Yumi:

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Except Molly was in full control of herself.

Also, just because Rin can look past it, it doesn't make it any better.

If Molly had confessed to Rin, then been properly rejected, you "might" have a point. Instead she didn't even bother trying to confess to Rin, because Molly already knew she had been rejected by default.

Molly just didn't care how Rin felt. Molly is the one without "emotional responsibility" here. Hence her even saying something like this:

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Which Rin disagreed with (obviously):

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While noting that if she fully understood how Molly felt, then she wouldn't have hurt her. Unlike Molly.

You've definitely got this whole emotional responsibility thing backwards. It's Molly who had no emotional responsibility, and tried to make excuses for her actions, when there's no excuse. It doesn't matter what she "wanted", what does matter is what she did, as Rin points out:

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Molly was not taking responsibility for her emotions, and trying to find excuses.

To be frank, the only reason Rin even talks to Molly is due to having "emotional responsibility" and empathy. Far more than Molly does.

Rin isn't responsible for Molly's emotions. Molly is. Same with her actions. Rin's life shouldn't have to revolve around Molly.

 

[Bingoogus]

I do hope the both of you remain aware during this little argument that you are discussing teenagers, they're fucking idiots and this is exactly the kind of shit they get into cause they're not adults, this discussion you're having between adults is what makes you adults, teens are mostly still learning this shit and they get it wrong far more often then they get it right. So just be mindful that you can be absolutely right but still be expecting too much of either girl and even if you are right, trying to explain this to them would not necessarily lead to them seeing what they got wrong.

I think the nature of online dialogue getting increasingly hyperbolic and extreme over the last 5 years can lead to a case of lumping excessive amounts of blame once you decide someone is the bad guy in this or that situation and the dogpile is just standard human tribalism our more civilised frontal lobes struggle not to get lost in. Neither Molly nor Rin is 100% to blame, they're dumb teens who suck at communicating and controlling themselves.

Anyway, this post is just an aside or a tangent i felt ought to be wedged in there, continue as you please.

 

[5A 61 68 79 6E 68 79 6B]

I do hope the both of you remain aware during this little argument that you are discussing teenagers, they're fucking idiots and this is exactly the kind of shit they get into cause they're not adults, this discussion you're having between adults is what makes you adults, teens are mostly still learning this shit and they get it wrong far more often then they get it right. So just be mindful that you can be absolutely right but still be expecting too much of either girl and even if you are right, trying to explain this to them would not necessarily lead to them seeing what they got wrong.

I think the nature of online dialogue getting increasingly hyperbolic and extreme over the last 5 years can lead to a case of lumping excessive amounts of blame once you decide someone is the bad guy in this or that situation and the dogpile is just standard human tribalism our more civilised frontal lobes struggle not to get lost in. Neither Molly nor Rin is 100% to blame, they're dumb teens who suck at communicating and controlling themselves.

Anyway, this post is just an aside or a tangent i felt ought to be wedged in there, continue as you please.

I would also add that this is also server through the prism of the author's perception, and so it's a full like