KumaOLD

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That is not and never was a problem, in fact, it's thanks to the large cast that he can alternate groups of girls to avoid burn out. Remember, the story comes first in this game, so we get Rin when it is time within the story, when she is ready to actually swing toward Sensei, and no sooner.
This creates a huge problem because by paying attention to everyone a little bit, we have too many problems that are stuck at the escalation stage and will be there for another year or two until Seleb remembers (and maybe even forgets)
The situation of Molly and Sensei, which has been hanging for 1.5 years and has not moved forward
What's up with Yasu and Sekai in the scene that was in 0.28?
In addition, there are characters that, well, just don’t need the same Osako
What about Yumi and Tsuneya after the reboot (well, Yumi is clear, but Tsuneya is also not certain
Again, the line of Maya and Kaori, which hung at the riddle stage
There are still moments when there is a line, but it is miraculously simply forgotten. The same illness of Chinami, which was one update and then simply disappeared
Having entered 35 characters, it is impossible to catch an adequate amount of time for everyone
 

alex2011

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Feb 28, 2017
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This creates a huge problem because by paying attention to everyone a little bit, we have too many problems that are stuck at the escalation stage and will be there for another year or two until Seleb remembers (and maybe even forgets)
The situation of Molly and Sensei, which has been hanging for 1.5 years and has not moved forward
What's up with Yasu and Sekai in the scene that was in 0.28?
In addition, there are characters that, well, just don’t need the same Osako
What about Yumi and Tsuneya after the reboot (well, Yumi is clear, but Tsuneya is also not certain
Again, the line of Maya and Kaori, which hung at the riddle stage
There are still moments when there is a line, but it is miraculously simply forgotten. The same illness of Chinami, which was one update and then simply disappeared
Having entered 35 characters, it is impossible to catch an adequate amount of time for everyone
It's either that or Sel burns out and we never see a resolution to most if not all of said problems. As it is now, the resolution is only delayed, not stopped from coming entirely. We are at a point in the overall story where things are still escalating anyway and we will be until the dark route peaks. Since we aren't yet even in that section yet, there is still time to build.

None of what happened in past updates has disappeared, everything has its time to be updated. We will still see what is happening to Chinami, for example, and that was already looking to be a dark route plot point.

The term adequate in this case is subjective, what is adequate for the developer or one player won't be adequate for another player, you can't please everyone and even trying will just displease everyone. Some people don't think the amount of H content is adequate, they want more, while others want to maintain the focus on the story. If either side gets what they want, the other is displeased.
 

DeSkel15

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Sep 29, 2019
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Now, I'm a bit curious. You previously said you do not believe Nodoka to be "that bad." Then whom, between Nodoka and Otoha, do you consider being a worse person, in general?

To me, personally, Nodoka is the more interesting
character, no doubt. She feels connected to the "deeper" lore of LiL. And that's what I value above most things in this game.

I don't care about Otoha much; she isn't very compelling. Then again, I don't actively dislike her. She has some engaging moments. As one would expect, I think she is a shitty person. Fortunately for Nodoka (and Sekai, Sensei), when it comes to fiction, there's no problem being an asshole as long as you are intriguing. Unfortunately for Otoha, she merely isn't as entertaining as them. Her struggles aren't that unique. She comes off as your average selfish prick.

Honorable mention: Haruka, who is amusing in a different sense. As a clown (seriously, I've laughed hard at some of her scenes).
Definitely Otoha. Like it's not even close. At least for now.

Nodoka has at least done things that are "good" for others:
  • Taken care of her mother:
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  • Worried about and helped Otoha get some freedom:
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  • Tested Sensei's dangerousness for everyone:
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  • Tried to defend Futaba from Yumi, and was willing to be hurt in her stead:
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    and almost was:
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  • Gave Sensei an outlet:
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  • Helped Rin get fingered:
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  • Etc
Nodoka acts far worse than she actually is.

Even the Blackmailing Yumi stuff is understandable in my opinion, since Yumi mercilessly tormented one of the most important and nicest people in Nodoka's life for who knows how long, just because she could.

Not to say Nodoka isn't a shitty person at times. Nodoka's actual shittiness just seems unintentional:
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for the most part, while Otoha simply can't help herself.

Honestly, where I'd place Nodoka overall is still up in the air though. I can see her intending to protect everyone (or at least those she cares about) from Sensei by being his outlet:
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But, we'll have to wait and see what's really going on.

Nodoka is also definitely far more interesting.
 
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DeSkel15

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That's to be expected, you can't please everyone always and there are a lot of things that could affect that within the game.

Good spot, I didn't even notice because of the contrast or lack thereof.


Sounds like you tripped the protection against malicious saves, which yes, is a thing. I do believe there is a way to do it without this, but I'm not entirely sure of that as I don't use save editing myself (if I have an issue that would require save edits, namely red events or wrong choices known to cause red events, I start over).


Because of her actions in the later part of the story. She's shown herself to be extremely possessive and unwilling to let her partner do things that she herself will not abstain from doing.


Actually, though this is kind of true, the real reason is Rin is still on the girls side of her bisexuality and has only really swung toward even the slightest bit of interest in guys once. If she was interested to the same degree in Sensei as she was in Otoha and Chika, we would have already gotten somewhere before Otoha was an issue.


That is not and never was a problem, in fact, it's thanks to the large cast that he can alternate groups of girls to avoid burn out. Remember, the story comes first in this game, so we get Rin when it is time within the story, when she is ready to actually swing toward Sensei, and no sooner.


And also essentially cheating on Rin, which while not okay in the first place, is made worse by expecting loyalty from Rin.


I've already done this several times over, it's not that bad.


To be undeservedly fair to Otoha, I think she's also extremely impulsive and very weak to those impulsive moments, which got to her with the cheating. I mean, sure, she could have fully intended to cheat and still expect loyalty from Rin, but I am getting a sense that kiss was a heat of the moment impulse and she simply had no control. Also, at least she's self aware, some people and characters like her are not.

She's done so much damage and the only reason those two are still together, besides story reasons, is because her partner is the type that may just take it without resistance.


Yep, she could have rejected Rin, she could have been good to Rin after accepting her, but she did neither. This relationship is a ticking time bomb and time is running low. This is getting set to blow up massively, we might just see Rin in her worst state yet.


No, Rin had no idea any of this was going to happen, she took a blind leap and landed in a pot starting to boil. It wasn't until after they actually got together that Otoha started showing her negative tendencies, so it is 100% on Otoha. Also, Rin was kind of blinded with her rejection from Chika and desire for a partner that just so happened to, unfortunately, fall on Otoha.


This is true, what Otoha has done is well within the realm of normal for a teen. They are at a point where they can be extremely impulsive and may not know the full extent of the effect choices they make can have, so they can be much more free with how they act due to not being careful of said consequences.


Yep, ultimately, even with what I said above this, Otoha is guilty of several things and those things serve to build potential for hurting another character. I just hope she learns from what I see as a now inevitable negative end to the Rintoha relationship. I don't hate Otoha, she's one of my favorite characters, I'm just disappointed in her as if disappointed in a friend who messed up bad.


I would still say Nodoka is worse after the Yumi thing. If Otoha ever does something like that to Rin, I will flip a table, I swear. Still, Otoha's actions and the amount of in universe time going by before they come to a climax could serve to make the impact so much worse than the Yumi thing could even hope to be.
Pesonally, Otoha being aware of her own shittiness, and not trying to fix it, makes it so much worse for me.

I also could chalk up the kiss to an "oopsy" if she wasn't still pining over Niki:
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That kiss even seems like it was more opportunistic than impulsive:
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She's likely been wanting to do it for a while, and didn't even seem to regret the kiss. Just that Niki didn't like it. Hell, her entire "confession" to Sensei seems actually aimed towards Niki.
 
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alex2011

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Definitely Otoha. Like it's not even close. At least for now.

Nodoka has at least done things that are "good" for others:
  • Taken care of her mother:
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  • Worried about and helped Otoha get some freedom:
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  • Tested Sensei's dangerousness for everyone:
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  • Tried to defend Futaba from Yumi, and was willing to be hurt in her stead:
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    and almost was:
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  • Gave Sensei an outlet:
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  • Helped Rin get fingered:
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  • Etc
Nodoka acts far worse than she actually is.

Even the Blackmailing Yumi stuff is understandable in my opinion, since Yumi mercilessly tormented one of the most important and nicest people in Nodoka's life for who knows how long, just because she could.

Not to say Nodoka isn't a shitty person at times. Nodoka's actual shittiness just seems unintentional:
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for the most part, while Otoha simply can't help herself.

Honestly, where I'd place Nodoka overall is still up in the air though. I can see her intending to protect everyone (or at least those she cares about) from Sensei by being his outlet:
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But, we'll have to wait and see what's really going on.

Nodoka is also definitely far more interesting.
I cannot believe I'm about to defend the girl lowest on my list from day one, but here it goes. Just because Yumi was terrible to some of the other girls, especially Futaba, that doesn't justify what Nodoka put her through.

Also, well before that, we did get a closer look at why Yumi is how she is. She means well, she just doesn't know how to express it, hostility is all she really knows outside of certain situations. It's like Futaba with the body size thing, she ridicules Futaba for her appearance, but her goal isn't to cause Futaba emotional distress, it's genuinely out of concern and she's just going about expressing that the wrong way.

She's still not justified in ridiculing Futaba or any of that stuff, but what Nodoka did to her was far worse, she literally made her touch herself in front of the man who stole a kiss without her consent (first kiss? I forgot) and allegedly did things far beyond what he is supposed to be allowed to do. At least Yumi didn't invade Futaba's privacy and make her do things completely out of her comfort zone and potentially traumatizing.

Pesonally, Otoha being aware of her own shittiness, and not trying to fix it, makes it so much worse for me.

I also could chalk up the kiss to an "oopsy" if she wasn't still pining over Niki:
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That kiss even seems like it was more opportunistic than impulsive:
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She's likely been wanting to do it for a while, and didn't even seem to regret the kiss. Just that Niki didn't like it. Hell, her entire "confession" to Sensei seems actually aimed towards Niki.
To me, it sounds more like she made a mistake with the kiss, and instead of owning it, decided to double down because she is so self absorbed that she can't face the fact that she messed up. I still think she's perfectly willing to cheat while keeping a tight leash on Rin, though. A sort of 'rules for thee, not for me' scenario.

From that second image, context suggests even she doesn't fully understand yet what happened with Niki, she just knows it did and doesn't see it as a major issue, which it really is because that's still cheating. Hence why she doesn't seem to regret it, if she doesn't see it as a big deal, she's going to see no reason to regret it even if it was a heat of the moment impulse she didn't intend to act on at the time. She's so blinded by what she wants, she doesn't see how getting what she wants by specific means hurts the people around her and just how badly they get hurt in the process.

HOPE forbid Rin ever finds out this happened, she's going to be seriously hurt, if not by the cheating itself, by the fact that Otoha wasn't straight with her about it. Staying silent is almost as bad as denying something happened in a case like this. Otoha seriously betrayed Rin here, possibly causing irreparable damage to their relationship.
 
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DeSkel15

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I cannot believe I'm about to defend the girl lowest on my list from day one, but here it goes. Just because Yumi was terrible to some of the other girls, especially Futaba, that doesn't justify what Nodoka put her through.

Also, well before that, we did get a closer look at why Yumi is how she is. She means well, she just doesn't know how to express it, hostility is all she really knows outside of certain situations. It's like Futaba with the body size thing, she ridicules Futaba for her appearance, but her goal isn't to cause Futaba emotional distress, it's genuinely out of concern and she's just going about expressing that the wrong way.

She's still not justified in ridiculing Futaba or any of that stuff, but what Nodoka did to her was far worse, she literally made her touch herself in front of the man who stole a kiss without her consent (first kiss? I forgot) and allegedly did things far beyond what he is supposed to be allowed to do. At least Yumi didn't invade Futaba's privacy and make her do things completely out of her comfort zone and potentially traumatizing.


To me, it sounds more like she made a mistake with the kiss, and instead of owning it, decided to double down because she is so self absorbed that she can't face the fact that she messed up. I still think she's perfectly willing to cheat while keeping a tight leash on Rin, though. A sort of 'rules for thee, not for me' scenario.

From that second image, context suggests even she doesn't fully understand yet what happened with Niki, she just knows it did and doesn't see it as a major issue, which it really is because that's still cheating. Hence why she doesn't seem to regret it, if she doesn't see it as a big deal, she's going to see no reason to regret it even if it was a heat of the moment impulse she didn't intend to act on at the time. She's so blinded by what she wants, she doesn't see how getting what she wants by specific means hurts the people around her and just how badly they get hurt in the process.

HOPE forbid Rin ever finds out this happened, she's going to be seriously hurt, if not by the cheating itself, by the fact that Otoha wasn't straight with her about it. Staying silent is almost as bad as denying something happened in a case like this. Otoha seriously betrayed Rin here, possibly causing irreparable damage to their relationship.
I said "understandable". Not "justified". Nothing Nodoka did to Yumi was "justified", and nothing Yumi has done to anyone is "justified". What Nodoka did to Yumi was Vengeance:
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And personally I agree with Nodoka, it's nothing compared to what Yumi put Futaba through:
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Yumi has potentially fucked Futaba for life and caused her to slowly kill herself. Meanwhile, Futaba has done nothing but try to be nice to her.

Yumi got off rather easy honestly. Just imagine what Nodoka could have done if she wanted.

I'm leaning more towards Otoha knowing how shitty she is, how much it's hurting and going to hurt others, and doesn't really care because she wants Niki to "make a woman" out of her:
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To each their own interpretation though. I'm getting a little bored talking about Otoha, lmao.

Btw, Foreshadowing:
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Nah, it'll probably be much worse. Poor homie.
 

JelF547

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Pesonally, Otoha being aware of her own shittiness, and not trying to fix it, makes it so much worse for me.

I also could chalk up the kiss to an "oopsy" if she wasn't still pining over Niki:
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That kiss even seems like it was more opportunistic than impulsive:
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She's likely been wanting to do it for a while, and didn't even seem to regret the kiss. Just that Niki didn't like it. Hell, her entire "confession" to Sensei seems actually aimed towards Niki.
Yeah, that is the exact reason she won confession battle. Everybody can confess she is in love with Sensei, but only special one can confess she is a bitch

PS if you need a reason to hate Nodoka, look what has she done with poor Futaba in "Pg. 99"
 
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DeSkel15

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Yeah, that is the exact reason she won confession battle. Everybody can confess she is in love with Sensei, but only special one can confess she is a bitch

PS if you need a reason to hate Nodoka, look what has she done with poor Futaba in "Pg. 99"
I can't really hate someone for not understanding others. I can hate what they've done though.

Nodoka truly seemed to not intend nor expect to hurt Futaba with the whole book thing:
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She definitely fucked up though.

I think the biggest miscalculation on her part, was underestimating just how badly Yumi fucked up Futaba. Futaba is absolutely terrified of becoming "a target again" as she put it:
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alex2011

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I said "understandable". Not "justified". Nothing Nodoka did to Yumi was "justified", and nothing Yumi has done to anyone is "justified". What Nodoka did to Yumi was Vengeance:
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And personally I agree with Nodoka, it's nothing compared to what Yumi put Futaba through:
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Yumi has potentially fucked Futaba for life and caused her to slowly kill herself. Meanwhile, Futaba has done nothing but try to be nice to her.

Yumi got off rather easy honestly. Just imagine what Nodoka could have done if she wanted.

I'm leaning more towards Otoha knowing how shitty she is, how much it's hurting and going to hurt others, and doesn't really care because she wants Niki to "make a woman" out of her:
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To each their own interpretation though. I'm getting a little bored talking about Otoha, lmao.

Btw, Foreshadowing:
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Nah, it'll probably be much worse. Poor homie.
I would also have to disagree with it being understandable since even Yumi never went that far. Keep in mind I am looking at the severity of each of their actions and making someone do as Nodoka had to Yumi seems more severe than mere words. Vengeance is just as bad as the act that caused it.

Yes, Yumi said some hurtful things, but she never made Futaba actually do something or did something to Futaba. This doesn't change that Yumi was in the wrong with Futaba, I'm only saying that the fact that Nodoka went into actions while Yumi only resorted to words makes Nodoka worse to me. I've been in Futaba's position plus being subjected to actions like Yumi, the actions perpetrated on me definitely had the bigger impact than the words thrown my way. About the only thing Nodoka could have done worse would be to actually assault Yumi or coerce Sensei into assaulting her and, if that's the last remaining thing on the list that is worse than what a character is already doing, that's pretty bad.

I'm definitely not contesting Otoha knows how bad she is as a person, she definitely knows and even admitted it. I'm just thinking the kiss may not have been planned from the start, just something she did on impulse, and that her lack of sense that there is something wrong with it is why she doesn't regret it, because she literally cannot see how her actions affect those around her, she's too focused on herself. This is still bad, just not in the same way as a premeditated action. Either way, it is still cheating on Rin, which is inexcusable and potentially extremely bad for Rin.

Honestly, yeah, I don't think we're getting anywhere with this, we'll just have to leave it at that and wait for further developments. I'm sure we'll see some effect the next time any of the above characters get an update to their character events. I just hope we're prepared for the potential fallout, this could get ugly real fast.
 
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JelF547

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I can't really hate someone for not understanding others. I can hate what they've done though.

Nodoka truly seemed to not intend nor expect to hurt Futaba with the whole book thing:
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She definitely fucked up though.

I think the biggest miscalculation on her part, was underestimating just how badly Yumi fucked up Futaba. Futaba is absolutely terrified of becoming "a target again" as she put it:
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Well, I can assume Nodoka had good intentions. I can even assume that Nodoka made Futaba go through this to help her. But what i can not assume is that Nodoka doesn't know first thing about Futaba's insecurities. And Nodoka definetly capable of liying in Futaba's face, she is a psyco after all.
 

DeSkel15

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I would also have to disagree with it being understandable since even Yumi never went that far. Keep in mind I am looking at the severity of each of their actions and making someone do as Nodoka had to Yumi seems more severe than mere words. Vengeance is just as bad as the act that caused it.

Yes, Yumi said some hurtful things, but she never made Futaba actually do something or did something to Futaba. This doesn't change that Yumi was in the wrong with Futaba, I'm only saying that the fact that Nodoka went into actions while Yumi only resorted to words makes Nodoka worse to me. I've been in Futaba's position plus being subjected to actions like Yumi, the actions perpetrated on me definitely had the bigger impact than the words thrown my way. About the only thing Nodoka could have done worse would be to actually assault Yumi or coerce Sensei into assaulting her and, if that's the last remaining thing on the list that is worse than what a character is already doing, that's pretty bad.

I'm definitely not contesting Otoha knows how bad she is as a person, she definitely knows and even admitted it. I'm just thinking the kiss may not have been planned from the start, just something she did on impulse, and that her lack of sense that there is something wrong with it is why she doesn't regret it, because she literally cannot see how her actions affect those around her, she's too focused on herself. This is still bad, just not in the same way as a premeditated action. Either way, it is still cheating on Rin, which is inexcusable and potentially extremely bad for Rin.

Honestly, yeah, I don't think we're getting anywhere with this, we'll just have to leave it at that and wait for further developments. I'm sure we'll see some effect the next time any of the above characters get an update to their character events. I just hope we're prepared for the potential fallout, this could get ugly real fast.
Yeah, I'll have to disagree with it both being not "understandable", and a few minutes of earned suffering somehow being worse than months to years of undeserved bullying plus probably a lifetime of fear and insecurity, and a damaged body.

I'm thinking you're forgetting what Yumi has actually done. Here's some of what's actually been shown:
  • Made Futaba cry for fun:
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    Who knows how many times.
  • Tried to steal Futaba's towel:
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  • Has taken Futaba's books and desk hostage for no reason:
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  • Pinned Futaba against a wall and threatened to kill her:
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  • Etc
She even seems to be the main cause of Futaba's bulimia:
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And Yumi did stuff like this for who knows how long.

Futaba seems to be so traumatized that she's absolutely terrified of being a target again:
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If you still haven't came around to my point of view, then yeah, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
 
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DeSkel15

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Well, I can assume Nodoka had good intentions. I can even assume that Nodoka made Futaba go through this to help her. But what i can not assume is that Nodoka doesn't know first thing about Futaba's insecurities. And Nodoka definetly capable of liying in Futaba's face, she is a psyco after all.
Nodoka knows, she just didn't seem to take it into account. It's likely the same reason she's sleeping with Sensei behind Futaba's back (another "reason to hate her" I don't think anyone's mentioned). Nodoka doesn't seem to see the logic of putting the wants of others above her own wants.

That's one thing I can dislike. Nodoka comes first to Nodoka:
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At least she's honest about it though.

Still, Nodoka definitely didn't seem to want nor try to hurt Futaba:
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I'm sure the next Nodoka event will be quite interesting. She'll either be remorseful, or I might need to revaluate how I see her.
 
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BlackDays

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Do all of you play from a save where you opened Uta's loli pic and just recollected the points or cheated them back in?
Because i reverted to a save where i did not open the "sms" so i had not to do that and played from "a clean slate" there on.

The reason i come up with that is, that, if Akira never saw the pic/s, how would he know how loli Uta looks like?
Isn't it even pointed towards in the conversation/inner monologue/narration that he saw them?
Is this a plot error or are things possible to still happen offscreen?

Because if canon always still happens offscreen, i'd had some more thoughts about "The White Oak Door".
 

fdsasdf_p

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Off topic stuff

I suddenly feel bewildered by how Sensei managed the most recent Miku mild-OD situation. His panic level is so apparent that it puts his another issue, that is he fucking his teenager students, to shame.
(Seriously, the unfazed reactions of his when Otoha found out and when Nodoka published compared to this. It’s laughable)
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I’d say with the most confidence that the levels of consequence between these two types of “bad management” are not even close to be comparable. It’s perhaps because this time the consequence involves Io, and meanwhile his chicken brain has convinced himself that he’s the only one that will sink if illicit things get out (which of course Futaba slapped him with her side of reality)
 
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fdsasdf_p

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Do all of you play from a save where you opened Uta's loli pic and just recollected the points or cheated them back in?
Because i reverted to a save where i did not open the "sms" so i had not to do that and played from "a clean slate" there on.

The reason i come up with that is, that, if Akira never saw the pic/s, how would he know how loli Uta looks like?
Isn't it even pointed towards in the conversation/inner monologue/narration that he saw them?
Is this a plot error or are things possible to still happen offscreen?

Because if canon always still happens offscreen, i'd had some more thoughts about "The White Oak Door".
At the end of Uta-chan you’re forced to look at the picture HOPE sent you, so it’s not determined by whether you check your album or not via the menu screen: Sensei is forced to know.
 
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