Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

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Discussion Reviews (296)
NicolasL4D

NicolasL4D

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Feb 6, 2023
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Honestly, I'm unsure about the whole gods shit anymore.

A year or two ago, I would've called Concern the best out of all of them.

Now, I'm quite literally not sure anymore.
 
aramaug

aramaug

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Moonflare said:
I've been struggling to answer this. So, what happens in Lavender's Green is somewhat similar to what happens in Abyss. We should start from the event prior to Lavender's Green actually, when Molly is drunk but still at the party:
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This font is also used here:
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Both these messages are basically the same thing, an entity takes hold of Akira. More specifically, someone has hands on his shoulders and leads him to force himself on people. Let's go to the Abyss.

Akira's being controlled (and was made to go to the old district), then Pareidolia appears masquerading as Wires.
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In both Abyss and the Molly situation, it was the hands on Akira's shoulders that were controlling him. Also, Pareidolia may know Yumi by a different name, but he also could be confused because he thought Akira was talking about the person with him other than Yumi, that being Sekai.
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Yasu sees someone, probably Sekai.
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Later we see the exact shame huh.
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So all of this is to establish that a Sekai could very well always have been around Akira. Or, an even more terrifying possibility is that Akira could be Sekai himself (in the sense that he was so groomed/traumatized by her, that at times this shadow takes over). It would certainly explain why AmIOkay calls him Sekai in "turn off the lights".
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Well, when Akira gets to finger Sana he has a long conversation with Sekai, in which she says this:
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So, what do we take from all of this? The Molly thing counted, and the sacrifice did not go to HOPE. What happens after Lavender's Green? Which god benefits from it? Well, Wires goes to sleep since Summer arrives. However, Ayane survives the reset, and during chapter 3, both Pareidolia and Sekai are restored.

By process of elimination, the sacrifice either is one of the conditions for Ayane to survive the reset, or it was important to power Pareidolia and/or restore Sekai.
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The hands on the shoulders are probably Sekai.
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Moonflare said:
She's not sensei because she's his English Teacher - hence Teacher being in English. Her name would also begin with the letter T, because it would be Teacher Sekai due to naming conventions. Akira is Arakawa Sensei, but if he was an English teacher his students would call him Teacher Arakawa. No student would call her Sekai, they'd either call her Teacher, or Teacher Sekai (actually they might have called her Teacher Arakawa as well). Akira reprimands even Noriko for not calling him Sensei instead of Akira during the flashbacks, and repeats it with Tsukasa/Chinami if I recall correctly. It isn't mandatory, but that kind of behavior could also have been copied from Sekai.

Also, I feel like you're overlooking the fact that Akira is referred to inside the simulation, and even in this thread, as if his name was Sensei. To say that "Teacher" isn't a real name when the main character uses the exact same thing as a "real name" to such an extent isn't congruent imo. If Akira can be "Sensei", Sekai can be "Teacher". In fact, I see this parallel as another case of him becoming her through grooming - it makes complete sense to me.

I mean, I'm not really defending this point as if it was mine - I just haven't seen enough of an argument that would make as much sense coming from the other direction. It's not impossible that Sekai's name isn't Sekai, in fact I'd prefer if that was the case. Yasu seems to agree in a recent event that names inside this bubble aren't that important.
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But even if her name isn't Sekai, it doesn't equate to "T" having to be her real name. She could have been called Tiffany, sure - but she could have been called Sakura just as easily. There's also the issue that it doesn't make sense in a narrative sense to drop Akira remembering that her real name started with a T, being it either Maya or Sekai's real name, and for that to be abandoned - when everything in that moment of the story was related to the "Teacher" character.

Akira wondering if people are really called what they are isn't a plot thread in LiL yet. It would be nonsensical to drop that so early in the story and abandon it. Lastly, "T" being related to Maya only makes sense to me if Maya is Sekai. The Kaori event links T with SeKaori so I can't see how it relates to both Maya and SeKaori, when the razor would dictate that it simply refers to Sekai, and then it's used as a reference for the Sekai inside Kaori.
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I didn't think about the idea of Sekai being an English teacher. That does make me hate T standing for Teacher a bit less, but I'm still not a fan. Sensei is Akira's name because he tells people it is, we haven't gotten any kind of similar indication with Sekai and Teacher. It's just (to me) a weird chain of inferences to think that Sensei is blocking out Sekai's name and so she's now named Teacher in his mind, but he's unwilling to think of more of the name than just the T, and that's for some reason enough for him to be traumatized by the letter T. I'm willing to drop the point and accept I'm in the minority, though.
Apollo259 said:
Actually, speaking of that event ("all for you" chapter 3) did anyone ever come up with anything about this line. I remember thinking about the obvious stuff like eye colour or all the blue negative images that pop up but nothing ever felt right.
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It seems likely that Himawari is the narrator here (Moonflare has pointed out that Ayane hears the narrator when she says it's all for you). So most likely the blue is just telling Sensei to trust Ayane, which she is apparently barred from explicitly saying. But if you want to try an alternate theory, Nao-chan does have a completely blue outfit now.

Also, by accident I just ran across another reference to "it sings in its sleep", again connecting it to the four arms of the cross. Not sure what it means, but this event appears to be about Akira's childhood before he met Sekai.
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Moonflare

Moonflare

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aramaug said:
The hands on the shoulders are probably Sekai.
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I didn't think about the idea of Sekai being an English teacher. That does make me hate T standing for Teacher a bit less, but I'm still not a fan. Sensei is Akira's name because he tells people it is, we haven't gotten any kind of similar indication with Sekai and Teacher. It's just (to me) a weird chain of inferences to think that Sensei is blocking out Sekai's name and so she's now named Teacher in his mind, but he's unwilling to think of more of the name than just the T, and that's for some reason enough for him to be traumatized by the letter T. I'm willing to drop the point and accept I'm in the minority, though.

It seems likely that Himawari is the narrator here (Moonflare has pointed out that Ayane hears the narrator when she says it's all for you). So most likely the blue is just telling Sensei to trust Ayane, which she is apparently barred from explicitly saying. But if you want to try an alternate theory, Nao-chan does have a completely blue outfit now.

Also, by accident I just ran across another reference to "it sings in its sleep", again connecting it to the four arms of the cross. Not sure what it means, but this event appears to be about Akira's childhood before he met Sekai.
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Good call on the Ami scene. By accident I also ran into this, related to singing:
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Would like to know who that is. Him replying that it's nothing, could be taken literally as him being controlled by Wires. But if that turned out to be true, then we'd have to reinterpret a lot about Wires.
 
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Apollo259

Apollo259

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aramaug said:
I didn't think about the idea of Sekai being an English teacher. That does make me hate T standing for Teacher a bit less, but I'm still not a fan. Sensei is Akira's name because he tells people it is, we haven't gotten any kind of similar indication with Sekai and Teacher. It's just (to me) a weird chain of inferences to think that Sensei is blocking out Sekai's name and so she's now named Teacher in his mind, but he's unwilling to think of more of the name than just the T, and that's for some reason enough for him to be traumatized by the letter T. I'm willing to drop the point and accept I'm in the minority, though.
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you might be looking at it too logically. The way I look at it is not so much just that he might have called her Teacher but also that the emotions tied to the lost memories remain and the thing that comes to his mind in relation to them is some vague concept that it involved or relates to Teacher. Perhaps both literally, as she was a Teacher, and figuratively, in the sense that so much of himself he learned from her. Or something like that, I could just as easily be wrong with how confusing this game can be.

aramaug said:
Also, by accident I just ran across another reference to "it sings in its sleep", again connecting it to the four arms of the cross. Not sure what it means, but this event appears to be about Akira's childhood before he met Sekai.
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About the Goodnight Moon stuff. I don't have any thoughts on it I'm confident of other than the last bit seems to be referencing Sekai.

"This was before the wold died off.
This was before you knew what love was.
Before you felt the sting of accidental abandonment...
...You were too young to know something was wrong yet."

The first half though I don't have any strong thoughts on. I'm being tugged in the direction of Ami's actions in that event reminding him of something, but that's about all that comes to mind.

Moonflare said:
Good call on the Ami scene. By accident I also ran into this, related to singing:
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Would like to know who that is. Him replying that it's nothing, could be taken literally as him being controlled by Wires. But if that turned out to be true, then we'd have to reinterpret a lot about Wires.
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Just a thought but was this event after red eyes Kaori (SekaiKaori) shows up at the ramen shop? There is also the red glow behind "haha bitch its time to sing". Maybe its wires saying "I c4nt c0ntr01 1T" "TH15 15NT M3". And SekaiKaori did something.
 
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aramaug

aramaug

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Moonflare said:
Good call on the Ami scene. By accident I also ran into this, related to singing:
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Would like to know who that is. Him replying that it's nothing, could be taken literally as him being controlled by Wires. But if that turned out to be true, then we'd have to reinterpret a lot about Wires.
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The dancing guy first appears in "Ode to a Marsh Warbler" when Sensei disassociates on the anniversary of Sekai's death. I think he's shown up other times connected to SekaiDolia, but I don't remember when.
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Combined with the lowercase "why is it always behind you" I think this is Pareidolia reacting to Wires clawing his way out. But I don't think he's the one controlling Sensei, it's more like he's shitting his pants because Wires managed to return when Pareidolia thought he was gone.
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I think the text with numbers are Sensei's thoughts as Wires takes control of him and directs him outside to see Tsuneyo. The same effect happens when Wires is resetting Ami:
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Apollo259 said:
Just a thought but was this event after red eyes Kaori (SekaiKaori) shows up at the ramen shop? There is also the red glow behind "haha bitch its time to sing". Maybe its wires saying "I c4nt c0ntr01 1T" "TH15 15NT M3". And SekaiKaori did something.
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It's the Chapter 4 event where Wires claws his way out and (probably) possesses Tsuneyo ("TH15 15NT M3"). I think it's the next event to take place at the ramen shop after SeKaori visits it at the end of Yumi's "Frog Boy", but it's not directly after.
 
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PhiloPhilo

PhiloPhilo

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Moonflare aramaug Apollo259 I have a bit to add (for once) about the "teacher as a name" discourse. Tagging instead of quoting for sanity reasons. I used to be a teacher/instructor (horrifying, I know) in other languages and around other countries. And in kung fu, where obviously Chinese is used (though I don't speak it.) Not in Japanese to be fair, but the linguistics are the same*.

In many languages, similarly to Japanese, "teacher" or the equivalent isn't just a description, it's a title or honorific. When you become a teacher, you become Teacher-Philo or Philo-Teacher. This applies to more than just teachers. In some cases, both a teacher, priest, elder, mayor, etc. would all be Teacher MoonFlare or Apollo-Teacher. It doesn't sound right in English because the word teacher is used more literally, and doesn't have the same associations with a person's status or seniority. We also don't use honorifics the same or nearly as much, with the closest example many might be familiar with being military ranks. It's more like calling someone Sir Aramaug, if Aramaug got knighted and became a Sir. When I was teaching, I was Philo-[Sensei], not "(The English) teacher — comma — Philo" if that makes sense.

I don't know if this is confirmation of anything, I'm not an expert in Japanese and admittedly mine is very bad, but from my understanding and useless linguistics knowledge this makes sense.
(Small edit that's bugging me: Obviously, if the point is that it doesn't make sense in English, it being a T, which is the shape of a cross, is weird. This could just be them using the English word anyway since Sekai was teaching him English. It could also just be that the dialogue is translated, because the characters are all actually speaking Japanese even though the game is in English. I'm not supporting any theory with this post, just adding to the discourse about names and titles.)

Apollo259 said:
I laughed so much at the Waya image that PhiloPhilo posted I made a terrible signature out of it if anyone wants it.
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This makes my heart flutter and my pussy wet, ngl
 
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PhiloPhilo

PhiloPhilo

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daagagsdgd

daagagsdgd

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PhiloPhilo said:
Moonflare aramaug Apollo259 I have a bit to add (for once) about the "teacher as a name" discourse. Tagging instead of quoting for sanity reasons. I used to be a teacher/instructor (horrifying, I know) in other languages and around other countries. And in kung fu, where obviously Chinese is used (though I don't speak it.) Not in Japanese to be fair, but the linguistics are the same*.

In many languages, similarly to Japanese, "teacher" or the equivalent isn't just a description, it's a title or honorific. When you become a teacher, you become Teacher-Philo or Philo-Teacher. This applies to more than just teachers. In some cases, both a teacher, priest, elder, mayor, etc. would all be Teacher MoonFlare or Apollo-Teacher. It doesn't sound right in English because the word teacher is used more literally, and doesn't have the same associations with a person's status or seniority. We also don't use honorifics the same or nearly as much, with the closest example many might be familiar with being military ranks. It's more like calling someone Sir Aramaug, if Aramaug got knighted and became a Sir. When I was teaching, I was Philo-[Sensei], not "(The English) teacher — comma — Philo" if that makes sense.

I don't know if this is confirmation of anything, I'm not an expert in Japanese and admittedly mine is very bad, but from my understanding and useless linguistics knowledge this makes sense.



This makes my heart flutter and my pussy wet, ngl
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Though imo the cultural usage in LiL is always trivial (I mean, Kumon-mi is literally a place in Japan using American customary units and currency), I could prove that at least in China and Japan honorific for teachers is always Surname-Teacher as name is always written in case of Surname-Name on the contrary to that of English, because Chinese is my mother tongue.

This way the name of Sekai could be spelled as Arakawa Sekai with maiden name unknown. I remember father of Kanda Sisters once mentioned Sekai abandoned her maiden name due to the terrible relationship with her family. I won't deny possibility of that opening with letter T despite being weird for her to tell that personally to Akira and it seems that it's an unspoken rule that all the characters in LiL has name and surname begin with same letter (with exception of Arakawa Nozomu and Yuu).

I just think we won't get a clear conclusion here nevertheless.
 
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PhiloPhilo

PhiloPhilo

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daagagsdgd said:
Though imo the cultural usage in LiL is always trivial (I mean, Kumon-mi is literally a place in Japan using American customary units and currency), I could prove that at least in China and Japan honorific for teachers is always Surname-Teacher as name is always written in case of Surname-Name on the contrary to that of English, because Chinese is my mother tongue.

This way the name of Sekai could be spelled as Arakawa Sekai with maiden name unknown. I remember father of Kanda Sisters once mentioned Sekai abandoned her maiden name due to the terrible relationship with her family. I won't deny possibility of that opening with letter T despite being weird for her to tell that personally to Akira and it seems that it's an unspoken rule that all the characters in LiL has name and surname begin with same letter (with exception of Arakawa Nozomu and Yuu).

I just think we won't get a clear conclusion here nevertheless.
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You're right, it's usually name-honorific in many languages. However, you can drop the name and call someone of higher status simply by honorific, but you absolutely can't drop the honorific and just use someone's name in most cases like a teacher. And you are still that honorific independent of your name if you earn it (e.g. you are 'Sensei.') But again, English is title-name, so it would be Teacher-Name, and it doesn't really work the same in English anyway. I'd ask for more insight for Chinese specifically, but that may go even more off topic. Anyway, I think you're right and that the cultural stuff might not always be correct or really important.*

I feel like I remember a line in which someone says something along the lines of "Isn't it weird that we use [American thing]" although I can't actually remember. But I would say that most cases of this come down to the game being in English, written by an English speaker, and for English speakers largely, so everything is sort of "auto-translated" for us, beyond basic things like Yen. So while the setting is Japan, the author is just gonna write dollar or pound or yard or freedom. That's the lazy explanation at least. Also yeah we're not getting any clear answers to a lot of shit for a long time.


Apollo259 said:
If you think this is desperate, just wait until we get into the letter A discourse.
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A is for anal, it was foreshadowing the Maki event where Akira almost had his penis removed.
 
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derekthered56

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Apropos of nothing, Imani's fear of getting sister-zoned comes off a lot differently now that we know her backstory. Don't know if someone pointed this out yet.

Edit: Just to further ruin people's day, if Imani is trying to avoid seeing Akira as a brother because her own brother just stood by while she was physically and sexually assaulted, then boy is she in for a particularly awful time.
 
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