Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

[Moonflare]

Thread got way too intellectual, so this is Maya wanting to have sex.

Spoiler: A brutal, violent creaming

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

That is all.

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

This Himawari discussion inspired me to make another render:

Spoiler: Himawari and Family

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Comiies]

Thread got way too intellectual, so this is Maya wanting to have sex.

Spoiler: A brutal, violent creaming

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

That is all.

Maya flirting is relationship goals

 

[PhiloPhilo]

Thread got way too intellectual

Moonflare: "This thread is too intellectual."
Moonflare, but as a character drawn in Microsoft Paint that was cut from my Noriko fanfic due to budget and time constraints:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Bingoogus]

Thread got way too intellectual, so this is Maya wanting to have sex.

Spoiler: A brutal, violent creaming

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

That is all.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Moonflare]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

This seems a lot like a preview to me

Spoiler: 0.42?

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Kitty Hawk]

This Himawari discussion inspired me to make another render:

Spoiler: Himawari and Family

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Spoiler: HimAyane lets's go!

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Bingoogus]

Spoiler: HimAyane lets's go!

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Lmao, in Zuko's shot, Akira's head was weirdly small, and in your beach shot, it's weirdly large.

 

[Kitty Hawk]

Lmao, in Zuko's shot, Akira's head was weirdly small, and in your beach shot, it's weirdly large.

Well, it's the same situation as his "lower head", which is variable in size.

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

Lmao, in Zuko's shot, Akira's head was weirdly small, and in your beach shot, it's weirdly large.

Yeah I dunno wtf is up with the character card I have of Akira. It doesn’t seem to match up precisely to what’s in the game fsr. I have one named ‘Sensei’ from the front page and another named ‘Akira’ that someone else posted awhile back on the thread when they updated some character cards (that’s the one I used).

Probably will try the card from the OP next time and see how it does.

 

[gazgiz]

I'm not sure if you're referring to hermeneutical reading more as a methodology for adding context and information to reach new conclusions, or more traditionally as interpreting scriptural or canonical themes and messages, in this case of the story/game. The first is kind of what we've been doing the whole time (others for a long time, me for a couple weeks) and the second is just one piece of the whole of the first. I think trying to use a specific framework to fully understand and question the game might trip you up, though. Especially in trying to apply theological or philosophical perspectives to things where the exact influence and perspective is unclear, or is an amalgamation.

I mean it in the sense of Macrobius' Commentary on the Dream of Scipio. So the latter. However, the whole point of developing a hermeneutic is to try and untangle an esoteric text that isn't hiding that it's a tangle of influences and perspectives. The danger is in being really careful and clear with the hermeneutics you are using, as very quickly everything can mean everything and your obscuring more than you're illuminating. I would disagree with you though in that we can absolutely tease out a couple of the lenses we should be using, even if we can't pin down an exact influence. I would argue that the following is all on the table:

• Literature / Literary Theory: Akira's specialty as a teacher. Nodoka's whole character.
• Poetry / Poetry Theory: Wakana's specialty as a teacher. A lot of plot hinges on poetry. Sel writing actual good poetry for a porn game (much harder than you think).
• Christin Theology: Agnostic on the denomination, but knowing enough about Christian Theology Sel knows more than just a gloss.
• Music Theory: I believe Sel is a band / Music cues in this game seem deeply important. But this is a blank spot for me, personally.
• Theater Theory: I guess this could be me being unable not to apply my own knowledge but it does feel like Sel is at least comfortable with Brecht
• Philosophy: I mean....
• "Occultism": I'm not sure that Sel is a practitioner or anything, but I've come across many small references to some ideas that are held in common between theosophy/thelma/chaos magic.

That doesn't mean that any ideas that come out of using those lenses are "correct," but I do think Sel is asking us to play with them.

Eh... I'm not sure if I'm seeing things the way you're seeing things fully. Of course there are a lot of ways to interpret things without being given the answer directly, and a lot of the story is purposefully left vague and up to interpretation, or simply isn't answered yet. But if the game is begging for you to read into it because it has the answers, then seemingly straight dialogue from an otherwise mysterious character is not where we should be poking holes. Regardless of exactly what she means by "didn't agree to this," she didn't agree to it. Your own example is seemingly what happens in Untitled. Whatever reasons she's there for, she's there, then sees what's happening, and she doesn't agree with it. And the information we have about her can only point us in so many directions until we have more.

I'm not trying to say your incorrect. It's very possible you are. I just think the text is more open than her being a "hostage" and treating the text as more open, may lead to better theory crafting down the line. But I think there is a huge difference in her being pulled into that event on false preferences and her disagreeing with methods. Hell pretty much every season of the The Boys is predicated on eventually one of the gang going to Butcher "Hold up, I didn't agree to this." Yet they all are oriented to the same goal.

I don't agree that teenage-fucking monster is 'bad' from an inherent or objective standpoint in the game either, as that's clearly a good or neutral thing in some characters' eyes. HOPE is all about impregnating vessels. But the point was that people's ideas of fixing someone and 'good' are different. It's abundantly clear that Himawari and someone like 79, HOPE, etc. are different in that regard, and that's the author's intent in writing her to be appalled. It's not the author tricking us. Not unless Himawari is revealed to be evil, or something.

I'm just softly trying to push back against any reading that has a "good" or "evil" attached to it. Himawari might want to make sausages, but not a lot of people wanna see or going to like how sausage is made.

The game does break the 4th wall and seem aware of its own 'non-reality' but that doesn't discredit anything else shown or stated in the game. If you're referring to characters telling us the only way out is to stop playing, then yeah, that's true for us and in real life. But does that negate what we know or are told about the world having existed and almost certainly being able to continue without us, knowing that the player and current version of the character we primarily see the world through can isn't necessary for the world and characters to exist in-universe? I highly doubt it.

I mean, this is where I get really Brechtian. I don't know how else to read the line, "Some would say he's been through nothing at all." without that context. Meaning, he hasn't experienced anything, because Akira isn't real. He hasn't experienced anything. We, the player is the one doing all the experiencing, and we can leave at anytime.

 

[Yarazin]

I'm also still curious about Moyo's "growth":

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Can't help but wonder if that's where Nao-chan came from, but if not...just what exactly was going on?

I've brought this up before. I think Moyo drinking the bucket got her knocked up with Nao-chan.

On the stretch goal subject. Sel responded to a question about them being in game and not something like a care package. I know its selfish, but I want Akira to be part of these scenes if they are "cannon".

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

I've brought this up before. I think Moyo drinking the bucket got her knocked up with Nao-chan.

I did not even think of that possibility, but y’know what? I could honestly see it.

On the stretch goal subject. Sel responded to a question about them being in game and not something like a care package. I know its selfish, but I want Akira to be part of these scenes if they are "cannon".

Yeah, same here. I’m still not even sure what these ‘bonus animations’ are about. Like… will they be tied to actual events? In the Dorms? Maybe it’s just a non-canon sexy animation for fun and nothing else accessible on Sensei’s laptop?

Guess we’ll soon find out.

 

[Moonflare]

I've brought this up before. I think Moyo drinking the bucket got her knocked up with Nao-chan.

On the stretch goal subject. Sel responded to a question about them being in game and not something like a care package. I know its selfish, but I want Akira to be part of these scenes if they are "cannon".

Neither Moyo nor Nao-chan can speak properly, so there is that. At the same time, it would put into question Moyo's allegiance since Nao-chan seems very much to be something under the control of USER4 and sent to help Akira (whereas Long Maya would harm him with glee).

On the topic of canon scenes, as a player of erotic games I tend to dislike anything sexual that doesn't include the player as part of it, so if Selebus was doing this "for me" it would have the reverse effect. However, as it stands in the lore, Akira too has manifested that he doesn't like not being a part of the girls' developments, sexual or not. So we're most likely of the same mind on that.

I'm curious how a Rin x Sana "animation" would even go without Akira. Even more worringly is a Yasu x Touka one. When they were care packages it was fine, as it was all fanservice outside of the plot. To have it in the game puts into question Selebus' vision of a story versus being paid to include stuff in it - as I very much doubt Touka would willingly have anything sexual with Yasu. Let's hope we're misunderstanding what he means by "in-game", maybe it's a dream or something.

 

[PhiloPhilo]

I mean it in the sense of Macrobius' Commentary on the Dream of Scipio. So the latter. However, the whole point of developing a hermeneutic is to try and untangle an esoteric text that isn't hiding that it's a tangle of influences and perspectives. The danger is in being really careful and clear with the hermeneutics you are using, as very quickly everything can mean everything and your obscuring more than you're illuminating. I would disagree with you though in that we can absolutely tease out a couple of the lenses we should be using, even if we can't pin down an exact influence. I would argue that the following is all on the table:

• Literature / Literary Theory: Akira's specialty as a teacher. Nodoka's whole character.
• Poetry / Poetry Theory: Wakana's specialty as a teacher. A lot of plot hinges on poetry. Sel writing actual good poetry for a porn game (much harder than you think).
• Christin Theology: Agnostic on the denomination, but knowing enough about Christian Theology Sel knows more than just a gloss.
• Music Theory: I believe Sel is a band / Music cues in this game seem deeply important. But this is a blank spot for me, personally.
• Theater Theory: I guess this could be me being unable not to apply my own knowledge but it does feel like Sel is at least comfortable with Brecht
• Philosophy: I mean....
• "Occultism": I'm not sure that Sel is a practitioner or anything, but I've come across many small references to some ideas that are held in common between theosophy/thelma/chaos magic.

That doesn't mean that any ideas that come out of using those lenses are "correct," but I do think Sel is asking us to play with them.



I'm not trying to say your incorrect. It's very possible you are. I just think the text is more open than her being a "hostage" and treating the text as more open, may lead to better theory crafting down the line. But I think there is a huge difference in her being pulled into that event on false preferences and her disagreeing with methods. Hell pretty much every season of the The Boys is predicated on eventually one of the gang going to Butcher "Hold up, I didn't agree to this." Yet they all are oriented to the same goal.



I'm just softly trying to push back against any reading that has a "good" or "evil" attached to it. Himawari might want to make sausages, but not a lot of people wanna see or going to like how sausage is made.



I mean, this is where I get really Brechtian. I don't know how else to read the line, "Some would say he's been through nothing at all." without that context. Meaning, he hasn't experienced anything, because Akira isn't real. He hasn't experienced anything. We, the player is the one doing all the experiencing, and we can leave at anytime.

Yeah man, I'm not even fully sure where we're going with this to be honest. As I said, if you meant the latter in your meaning of hermeneutical reading, then we're already doing that and that's just one part of everyone's attempts to understand the story and its meaning. We're already acknowledging the game's influences from literature, poetry, music, theology etc. in our understanding, too. The story is a tangled mess of influences and symbolism and that's why we're trying to decipher it. I'm also not sure why you think you're disagreeing with me when you say, for example, theology can be used to grasp meaning from the game. I literally have posts about it, and it's kind of insulting to insinuate that someone isn't aware of things like theology or philosophy for some reason. You're literally not disagreeing with me on Himawari, either, or what we know about why she was there, what was said beforehand, etc.
As far as getting Brechtian goes, I think that's what the problem is, and what I meant by viewing everything through one framework. Not broad, meaningless frameworks like theologic or poetic, which we're already using, but Brechtian. You can't try to say we should be more open in our reading, and then say "this line must be Brechtian." The same could be said for hermeneutics, which is just a method of interpretation (Of scripture, or literature broadly,) which is pretty much the point of the thread and not something new. But it clearly means something specific to you insofar as how you view the story. I gotta be honest and say I think you drank way too much theater kid kool-aid and that's shaped how you see the game, and you're assuming that you're either correct or connecting the dots the most logically. But you're kind of just saying to read more gooder, so... Cool?

 

[somepersonoutofnowhere]

I did not even think of that possibility, but y’know what? I could honestly see it.


Yeah, same here. I’m still not even sure what these ‘bonus animations’ are about. Like… will they be tied to actual events? In the Dorms? Maybe it’s just a non-canon sexy animation for fun and nothing else accessible on Sensei’s laptop?

Guess we’ll soon find out.

Yeah I could see it being on the laptop, I don't really believe it's gonna be fitting if it's an option in dorms and Moonflare has already talked about it not being tied to the story.

But another thing is that the laptop has been inaccessible although if you use URM to access it, when you get out of the laptop after using URM and see where you could go, you get access to all the (chapter 4) generic events again which could mean next update we're getting access to the laptop and locations again. Or that could just be a glitch but considering the fact we're getting that bonus animation I doubt we won't have access to the laptop.

 

[PhiloPhilo]

Neither Moyo nor Nao-chan can speak properly, so there is that. At the same time, it would put into question Moyo's allegiance since Nao-chan seems very much to be something under the control of USER4 and sent to help Akira (whereas Long Maya would harm him with glee).

On the topic of canon scenes, as a player of erotic games I tend to dislike anything sexual that doesn't include the player as part of it, so if Selebus was doing this "for me" it would have the reverse effect. However, as it stands in the lore, Akira too has manifested that he doesn't like not being a part of the girls' developments, sexual or not. So we're most likely of the same mind on that.

I'm curious how a Rin x Sana "animation" would even go without Akira. Even more worringly is a Yasu x Touka one. When they were care packages it was fine, as it was all fanservice outside of the plot. To have it in the game puts into question Selebus' vision of a story versus being paid to include stuff in it - as I very much doubt Touka would willingly have anything sexual with Yasu. Let's hope we're misunderstanding what he means by "in-game", maybe it's a dream or something.

I don't really look at the bonus files or the discord or subscribestar or anything. Are the bonuses/animations confirmed to be in-game as in, like, happening in the game, at the dorms or something? Or accessible through the laptop or something like somepersonoutofnowhere said? Or could they be just in the files like in the game folder or something? Cause that would make a lot more sense if it's just bonus content and a seemingly unexpected thing to actually happen in the game. Especially Yasu x Touko. Though I assume all of these bonus scenes are just "noncanon hot events" where they got injected with horny juice or something.

 

[aramaug]

I ran into a scene that I found very interesting while playing through Chapter 2 again. I missed this on my first playthrough and I imagine many others did as well, since it only happens if Floor 2 wins the first dorm wars, which requires making at least one questionable judging decision.

Yasu is channeling someone, and based on the talk about the rooftop, it seems like it has to be some version of Maya.

Spoiler: Getting Comfortable

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I tried searching for old discussion on this, but wasn't able to find anything other than DeSkel15 pointing out that the rooftop being the usual place connects to both Maya Prime and the mystery MM note that sounds like Maya but which Maya Prime doesn't remember writing.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

The idea of being trapped in the dark makes me think this is some version of Maya that has been reset and is speaking from the wishing well/bottom of everything, maybe even a post-death Maya Prime thanks to time fuckery. It's possible that we saw Maya Prime in early happy events in the guise of AmIOkay, and there's connections between what Yasu is saying and the crying AmIOkay in "The Room with Clocks".

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Even before this scene, Yasu seemed to predict Maya Prime's eventual death, which I wrote about before. Maybe she knows about it because of channeling Maya Prime.

In her first real appearance, Yasu seems to predict that something tragic will happen to Sensei "at the end of the world" that will cause him to "tumble further and further from everything". To me, this sounds like she's predicting the death of Maya Prime, though maybe I'm forgetting an earlier event that could also be described in this way.

Spoiler: The Girl in the Black Dress

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Yasu says she will be there to help Sensei when he starts spiraling. She also says that he will "reach for salvation", which is interesting because it could mean he initiates the interaction (because he's looking for any way to bring Maya back?), but it could also just be her eternal optimism of converting everyone to her church.

In any case, while we don't know exactly how much Yasu knows about the tragic event, it's possible that she is aware that Maya was reset (I don't think we've seen her interact with New Maya at all so far, which could help confirm/deny this). It makes me wonder if she will tell Sensei he can talk to Maya Prime in the same way that Sana can talk to her brother. She also might claim that HOPE can bring Maya back, which would tie back to "The Letter T" where AmIOkay is crucified and the audio spells out "againshelives" and says "the answer you seek is hope" (though later on "againshelives" seems to refer to Sekai).

If it is somehow Maya Prime that Yasu is channeling, it has an interesting implication in that she still thinks she'll be on the rooftop in the future. This could mean that she thinks New Maya will make it to the roof in the next reset; she does refer to New Maya in the first person in her goodbye letter.

I'd love to hear if anyone has other theories, especially if we can somehow connect this to the MM note.

 

[Antosha]

Trite Dostoevskian ramble at best.

Now, don’t be dissing my man Fyodr.

BTW, also a professional actor, here. Mostly voice, these days. Apropos of nothing.

 

[Moonflare]

I ran into a scene that I found very interesting while playing through Chapter 2 again. I missed this on my first playthrough and I imagine many others did as well, since it only happens if Floor 2 wins the first dorm wars, which requires making at least one questionable judging decision.

Yasu is channeling someone, and based on the talk about the rooftop, it seems like it has to be some version of Maya.

Spoiler: Getting Comfortable

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I tried searching for old discussion on this, but wasn't able to find anything other than DeSkel15 pointing out that the rooftop being the usual place connects to both Maya Prime and the mystery MM note that sounds like Maya but which Maya Prime doesn't remember writing.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

The idea of being trapped in the dark makes me think this is some version of Maya that has been reset and is speaking from the wishing well/bottom of everything, maybe even a post-death Maya Prime thanks to time fuckery. It's possible that we saw Maya Prime in early happy events in the guise of AmIOkay, and there's connections between what Yasu is saying and the crying AmIOkay in "The Room with Clocks".

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Even before this scene, Yasu seemed to predict Maya Prime's eventual death, which I wrote about before. Maybe she knows about it because of channeling Maya Prime.

If it is somehow Maya Prime that Yasu is channeling, it has an interesting implication in that she still thinks she'll be on the rooftop in the future. This could mean that she thinks New Maya will make it to the roof in the next reset; she does refer to New Maya in the first person in her goodbye letter.

I'd love to hear if anyone has other theories, especially if we can somehow connect this to the MM note.

In the Priestess of Fallen Snow, the message sent by Wires (presumably) has in the hexadecimal that it was sent from atop the roof.

Spoiler: priestess of fallen snow

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I'd just assume Wires is atop the roof for some reason, but if Yasu already channelled narrator/shadow/prime/locked in heaven Maya once, then this could be the second time. Or maybe it's Wires allowing the connections both times? I don't know.

She's definitely channeling AmIOkay as she tries to escape the room with the clocks on that last part though. Nice catch.