Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

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PhiloPhilo

PhiloPhilo

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Jan 24, 2022
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aramaug said:
I ran into a scene that I found very interesting while playing through Chapter 2 again. I missed this on my first playthrough and I imagine many others did as well, since it only happens if Floor 2 wins the first dorm wars, which requires making at least one questionable judging decision.

Yasu is channeling someone, and based on the talk about the rooftop, it seems like it has to be some version of Maya.
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I tried searching for old discussion on this, but wasn't able to find anything other than DeSkel15 pointing out that the rooftop being the usual place connects to both Maya Prime and the mystery MM note that sounds like Maya but which Maya Prime doesn't remember writing.
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The idea of being trapped in the dark makes me think this is some version of Maya that has been reset and is speaking from the wishing well/bottom of everything, maybe even a post-death Maya Prime thanks to time fuckery. It's possible that we saw Maya Prime in early happy events in the guise of AmIOkay, and there's connections between what Yasu is saying and the crying AmIOkay in "The Room with Clocks".
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Even before this scene, Yasu seemed to predict Maya Prime's eventual death, which I wrote about before. Maybe she knows about it because of channeling Maya Prime.

If it is somehow Maya Prime that Yasu is channeling, it has an interesting implication in that she still thinks she'll be on the rooftop in the future. This could mean that she thinks New Maya will make it to the roof in the next reset; she does refer to New Maya in the first person in her goodbye letter.

I'd love to hear if anyone has other theories, especially if we can somehow connect this to the MM note.
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Wow, this is pretty big actually. I don't think I saw the first scene where floor 2 wins.
I don't have a lot of hard hitting points to add, but some misc. thoughts. I was under the impression (or assumption) that Maya probably hasn't been reset, at least not many times or after significant periods. But I know there's been some speculation on that. I believe the mystery note only showed up some time after the start of the game, right? I can't remember the event, but I feel like it did. If it was always there, I'd say it could point to Maya having understood the resets and started getting Akira to come to the roof with her. Pretty sure this is a nonpoint unless I'm misremembering, though.

We see AmIOkay with Maya Prime in the copy of heaven, seemingly distinct. Could AmIOkay be a previous "Maya Prime" that was reset? Or some part of Maya that may or may not have been reset or otherwise locked away? Or just part of her shattered mind, more able to communicate/exist elsewhere? If she's just like the other clockwork children, probably not, but maybe.
Something about the 'replica of heaven' Maya is in and the way it's described bothers me, too.
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Special places only gods would look, tucked between the moon and its siblings. Between the moon and its siblings could mean a lot, or nothing. These places make wishes come true. No one finds them on accident and no one leaves them on purpose. They exist. I promise. But only if you believe in them. Where flowers won't bloom and bodies won't rot. Obviously if you're trapped there eternally, unchanging, you won't rot. It sounds eerily similar to the, or a wishing well, though. And the line about flowers before the rot. I've been going on about Himawari for long enough, I may as well continue. Is this replica of heaven in, or at least similar to the wishing well? Is that how Himawari managed to survive, in the wishing well? The idea of Maya Prime returning, as well as her current state, is similar to Himawari — a possibility. It's no accident that you end up there and you can't leave on purpose, seemingly, without outside help. It seems similar to Akira becoming his 'real' self or regaining his memories, as well. Is the wishing well, the bottom of everything, etc., something more than a place — what's "outside" the terminal, and everything that's possible? Outside of what's loaded into RAM and on a hard drive so to say? (Edit: We see the world seemingly partially 'unloaded' with Yasu explaining that that's what happens when Akira isn't around. This seems to fit in with the idea that things need a reason to exist and be 'loaded'.) Metaphorically where wishes and possibilities are when they don't exist? The room with the clocks could very well be one of these places, too. This might be stretching way too far. I have a bad habit of coopting posts, as I've noted before. My b. Maya Prime, a different iteration of Maya, AmIOkay, etc. could have found a way to leave that note, conspire with someone, etc., possibly akin to Himawari. Bonus theory, whatever's in Maya's boxes has hidden information about everything in case of or from before a reset.


Axismundi said:
Forgot about this game. Was the last update worth picking it back up, or should I wait till next month?
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Nah, game's ass tbh
 
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Moonflare

Moonflare

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Aug 23, 2023
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PhiloPhilo said:
We see AmIOkay with Maya Prime in the copy of heaven, seemingly distinct. Could AmIOkay be a previous "Maya Prime" that was reset? Or some part of Maya that may or may not have been reset or otherwise locked away? Or just part of her shattered mind, more able to communicate/exist elsewhere? If she's just like the other clockwork children, probably not, but maybe.
Something about the 'replica of heaven' Maya is in and the way it's described bothers me, too.

Is this replica of heaven in, or at least similar to the wishing well? Is that how Himawari managed to survive, in the wishing well? The idea of Maya Prime returning, as well as her current state, is similar to Himawari — a possibility. Is the wishing well, the bottom of everything, etc., something more than a place — what's "outside" the terminal, and everything that's possible? Outside of what's loaded into RAM and on a hard drive so to say? (Edit: We see the world seemingly partially 'unloaded' with Yasu explaining that that's what happens when Akira isn't around. This seems to fit in with the idea that things need a reason to exist and be 'loaded'.) Metaphorically where wishes and possibilities are when they don't exist? The room with the clocks could very well be one of these places, too.
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Most of this post are random theories. You're unlikely to lose anything by not reading it. You have been warned.
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All in all, there's a high likelihood that throughout the entire game Akira never left the room with the clocks. While his mind wanders throughout the simulation, his "real body" is sitting on a chair waiting to either put another clock on the wall, or finally exit the room through the door that Himawari is waiting in front of.
 
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DeSkel15

DeSkel15

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Sep 29, 2019
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Moonflare said:
Neither Moyo nor Nao-chan can speak properly, so there is that. At the same time, it would put into question Moyo's allegiance since Nao-chan seems very much to be something under the control of USER4 and sent to help Akira (whereas Long Maya would harm him with glee).
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This reminded me that besides my old theory of Nao-chan being related to Moyo:
DeSkel15 said:
Random Theory Time: Nao-chan might be either an altered Moyo or Moyo's daughter...

Remember the last time we heard of Moyo?:
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The whole change in "constitution" and "what is growing inside" stuff seems suspicious.

This also happens after Moyo swallows a bucket full of Sensei's semen in the 'Second Sun' Happy Event, then, after Moyo apparently goes through surgery in the 'Untitled' Chapter 3 Main Event, Nao-chan shows up in the 'First Contact' C3 Main Event.

On top of that, there's how Moyo can't seem to speak without damaging others, and how Nao-chan can't seem to speak at all:
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There's also some other things like how Nao-chan's poses seem a little similar to Moyo's:
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Overall: Moyo and Nao-chan seem possibly linked, and I'm not sure how I feel about this. It could just be nothing though, and something else is going on with Moyo and Nao-chan.
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I also theorized that the Mayas initially belonged to Nao mostly due to the similar wording between 'The Room With Clocks' and 'Mother's Milk' Happy Events:
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The theory includes that:
  • Nao was/is the god at Maya's shrine
  • Played a part in the start of the Resets
  • Fucked with Sensei for a long time until it lost interest
  • May be responsible for Psycho Ami or at least Maya Prime's memory of it
  • May have created the Maya Menagerie (Long Maya, Moyo, etc)
  • May have allowed Maya to survive the Resets due to cleaning it's shrine and being it's follower (possibly why Maya was scared to stop being a shrine maiden)
  • Lost interest in Maya
  • Has some connection to Pareidolia (mentions the "ones concerned")
  • Some connection to The World Itself/Sekai (mentioned "we" with Sekai right by it)
  • and may be more or less the Center of everything relevant. Albeit, just a part of the actual Center of everything.
  • Etc.
Also included that Nao may be USER4, lost interest in Using, and simply wants to watch how things play out now, leaving it's creations to become freelancers like Long Maya and Moyo. Possibly also recently sent Nao-chan to keep things interesting.

aramaug said:
I ran into a scene that I found very interesting while playing through Chapter 2 again. I missed this on my first playthrough and I imagine many others did as well, since it only happens if Floor 2 wins the first dorm wars, which requires making at least one questionable judging decision.

Yasu is channeling someone, and based on the talk about the rooftop, it seems like it has to be some version of Maya.
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I tried searching for old discussion on this, but wasn't able to find anything other than DeSkel15 pointing out that the rooftop being the usual place connects to both Maya Prime and the mystery MM note that sounds like Maya but which Maya Prime doesn't remember writing.
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The idea of being trapped in the dark makes me think this is some version of Maya that has been reset and is speaking from the wishing well/bottom of everything, maybe even a post-death Maya Prime thanks to time fuckery. It's possible that we saw Maya Prime in early happy events in the guise of AmIOkay, and there's connections between what Yasu is saying and the crying AmIOkay in "The Room with Clocks".
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Even before this scene, Yasu seemed to predict Maya Prime's eventual death, which I wrote about before. Maybe she knows about it because of channeling Maya Prime.

If it is somehow Maya Prime that Yasu is channeling, it has an interesting implication in that she still thinks she'll be on the rooftop in the future. This could mean that she thinks New Maya will make it to the roof in the next reset; she does refer to New Maya in the first person in her goodbye letter.

I'd love to hear if anyone has other theories, especially if we can somehow connect this to the MM note.
Click to expand...
I definitely think Yasu may have been channeling Maya or at least someone else who was on the roof "as always" like her.

Kaori mentions similar as well, in Sana's Chapter 3 'Black Sandy Beaches' Event:
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Then gets a little foreboding:
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The "thank our organs" bit, being something that Yuu, Nao, and Nodoka have brought up:
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I seem to recall Yasu mentioning "thanking organs" at some point as well, but can't seem to recall when.

Then there's the "Remember to smile" part which is something that gets mentioned/showed quite a bit, but more notably, it's the exact name of the Event that Maya Prime crumbled in.

Overall: Kaori and Yasu seemed to mention this "same place as always" line, which seems to be a Maya line, so I have to wonder if they both have some connection to Maya and/or the Roof.

The MM note is still a mystery, for now, but with Yasu claiming this has all happened before, I've wondered if it was simply there from a past New Maya, and the recent Maya Prime wasn't aware of what happens to Maya Primes due to memory manipulation. Things might get rather paradoxical. Albeit, they probably already have.
 
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aramaug

aramaug

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Jun 28, 2019
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PhiloPhilo said:
Wow, this is pretty big actually. I don't think I saw the first scene where floor 2 wins.
I don't have a lot of hard hitting points to add, but some misc. thoughts. I was under the impression (or assumption) that Maya probably hasn't been reset, at least not many times or after significant periods. But I know there's been some speculation on that. I believe the mystery note only showed up some time after the start of the game, right? I can't remember the event, but I feel like it did. If it was always there, I'd say it could point to Maya having understood the resets and started getting Akira to come to the roof with her. Pretty sure this is a nonpoint unless I'm misremembering, though.

We see AmIOkay with Maya Prime in the copy of heaven, seemingly distinct. Could AmIOkay be a previous "Maya Prime" that was reset? Or some part of Maya that may or may not have been reset or otherwise locked away? Or just part of her shattered mind, more able to communicate/exist elsewhere? If she's just like the other clockwork children, probably not, but maybe.
Something about the 'replica of heaven' Maya is in and the way it's described bothers me, too.
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Special places only gods would look, tucked between the moon and its siblings. Between the moon and its siblings could mean a lot, or nothing. These places make wishes come true. No one finds them on accident and no one leaves them on purpose. They exist. I promise. But only if you believe in them. Where flowers won't bloom and bodies won't rot. Obviously if you're trapped there eternally, unchanging, you won't rot. It sounds eerily similar to the, or a wishing well, though. And the line about flowers before the rot. I've been going on about Himawari for long enough, I may as well continue. Is this replica of heaven in, or at least similar to the wishing well? Is that how Himawari managed to survive, in the wishing well? The idea of Maya Prime returning, as well as her current state, is similar to Himawari — a possibility. It's no accident that you end up there and you can't leave on purpose, seemingly, without outside help. It seems similar to Akira becoming his 'real' self or regaining his memories, as well. Is the wishing well, the bottom of everything, etc., something more than a place — what's "outside" the terminal, and everything that's possible? Outside of what's loaded into RAM and on a hard drive so to say? (Edit: We see the world seemingly partially 'unloaded' with Yasu explaining that that's what happens when Akira isn't around. This seems to fit in with the idea that things need a reason to exist and be 'loaded'.) Metaphorically where wishes and possibilities are when they don't exist? The room with the clocks could very well be one of these places, too. This might be stretching way too far. I have a bad habit of coopting posts, as I've noted before. My b. Maya Prime, a different iteration of Maya, AmIOkay, etc. could have found a way to leave that note, conspire with someone, etc., possibly akin to Himawari. Bonus theory, whatever's in Maya's boxes has hidden information about everything in case of or from before a reset.



Nah, game's ass tbh
Click to expand...
We first see the MM note during the second reset. We don't know for sure that it wasn't there before that, because we never see the board, but it would be odd if it was there before the first reset, since it would be meaningless/confusing to Sensei.

There definitely is some connection between the den of the mole rat, the room with clocks, and the wishing well:
  • The den of the molerat is a replica of Heaven. In previous events in the same classroom, it is described as being at the bottom of everything and somewhere underneath Heaven.
  • The room with clocks is also at the bottom of everything. In one of the scenes there, we can see the upside down house through a window, but it's right-side up, implying the room is upside down with respect to the world.
  • In "Mother's Milk", the Xoanon (the entity some people call NAO) says that "this is what Heaven looks like". It also says "I am you" but upside down, so it might be the reflection of Akira from the audio file that Moonflare mentioned. The upside down part could mean that the entire wishing well is upside down, connecting it to the house and the room with clocks.
What exactly the connection is isn't entirely clear. Since the Xoanon only says that the wishing well "looks like" Heaven, it's possible that the wishing well itself is a/the replica of Heaven, and the den of the mole rat is part of it. Or it could be that the wishing well is itself Heaven, and the den of the mole rat is its replica.

In the wishing well, the Xoanon also says "this is where you will come when you die". This could mean literal death, as might have happened to each of Sensei and Makoto when they killed themselves. On the other hand, the normal way that Sensei "dies" in the cycle is by being factory reset, so it's possible that the old consciousness is sent to the wishing well when that happens. So maybe that's what happened (initially) to Maya Prime.

One other point I haven't thought about before now: in the wishing well, we see Nodoka and teen Sara. The presence of teen Sara might mean that time doesn't operate as usual there, which would explain how Maya Prime could appear in happy events and talk through Yasu even before her death. It might also help explain where Himawari comes from. (And it would mean it's possible that the Nodoka in the well is actually from some future event).

Personally, I believe that there isn't just one entity called AmIOkay. At different times she displays different personalities and different goals. In some later happy events we see multiple Mayas in the background, which I suspect are just different versions of AmIOkay. I've said before that I like the idea that a new AmIOkay is produced from every reset version of Maya, though I'm not sure how her Sekai connections fit into that.
 
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Moonflare

Moonflare

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Aug 23, 2023
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Yarazin said:
Love this name, hope it takes off!
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I keep reading ménage, instead of menagerie.
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Basically, there's a possibility that AmIOkay was the Maya from a previous cycle/terminal, and there's also the possibility that Amy was the Ami of a previous cycle/terminal as well. Thus, this. I mean, it's not impossible, right? Who knows...

I was also not expecting the scene with AmIOkay telling Noriko about what Amy did to turn out so creepy, but there you go.
 
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BlackDays

BlackDays

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Jan 30, 2021
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Another thing about the Xoanon, Mothers Milk and fixing everyone.

This is from the last updates Yasu events.
Yasu: "Take them and drown them. Hold their heads beneath the water and watch as they are healed. Fix them, for you are the reason they have broken. And you are the reason they continue to suffer."

Reads like she is discribing what could be going on during "Mothers Milk" where Akira meets Nao.
Where Nodoka gets "drowned" and Sara has to wait in the line.
Question would be if that's right, if it is already happening or what will/should/could be happening and if the Xoanon is some version of Akira.
 
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Apollo259

Apollo259

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Seeing as we are taking about the Noriko event ("Transpacific Sadness Symposium |: DEN OF THE MOLE RAT") here is a few things I noted about It. As others are saying it seems fairly clear wherever Noriko was shown/taken is the same place we have seen multiple times now.
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I also got the impression that Nao-chan was the one showing Noriko this place (not sure why yet, probably something reset related though). And that Nao-chan was communicating to her through the announcements. But I'm not sure how to explain the dear parts line being brought up because I don't think Nao-chan was present during that part of the camping trip. You could still explain that in various interesting ways though, mainly relating to who and what Nao-chan might be connected to.
 
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Comiies

Comiies

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Aug 27, 2022
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Moonflare said:
I keep reading ménage, instead of menagerie.
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Basically, there's a possibility that AmIOkay was the Maya from a previous cycle/terminal, and there's also the possibility that Amy was the Ami of a previous cycle/terminal as well. Thus, this. I mean, it's not impossible, right? Who knows...

I was also not expecting the scene with AmIOkay telling Noriko about what Amy did to turn out so creepy, but there you go.
Click to expand...
AmIOkay being a Maya from another cycle is interesting but really fucks up some things.Maya has said that she has been doing this for god knows how long.So in order for THIS maya to exist that means that somewhere in the long line of cycles Maya lost her memory>Countless cycles passed>Regained it>Even more cycles passed>Game begun.Unless you want to make the argument that AmIOkay was "created" in the very first cycles of the game where Maya was still vurnerable and didnt know any better.
 
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daagagsdgd

daagagsdgd

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May 9, 2019
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Antosha said:
Now, don’t be dissing my man Fyodr.

BTW, also a professional actor, here. Mostly voice, these days. Apropos of nothing.
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I'm Just saying that most philosophical monologue in LiL reads like tedious reproduction of Notes From Underground with nothing to compare with Dostoevsky. Dostoevsky is immortal.
 
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