mannice431

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2017
1,007
1,076
The irony is, if games appear here within hours of being made available to patrons, there's less incentive to become a patron.
That translates into less revenue for the dev.
That translates to them potentially needing to get a day job.
That cuts into dev time, leading to longer delays between updates, lower quality updates, or both.
The end result is an abandoned game.

Leaks are going to happen, but they shouldn't happen so quickly that it disincentivizes patronage.


Looks pretty solid to me, and debunks his whole spiel about it hurting his bottom line.

He's got a solid base of people that support him, he's achieved his patreon goals, wtf does he want more?
 

smnb

Active Member
Sep 5, 2017
560
869
Inevitability does not prevent stress or worry, in fact, it is more likely to cause it if there is no way to stop an undesired outcome. Try as we might, we cannot help it if we get stressed out by that kind of thing and that stress can lead to negative health consequences, both mental and physical.
Not how humans work. If that were the case, we would all be just happy to have what we currently have and be content.
Well, that's the challenge. I'm not saying it's simple choice when it's happening to you. "This thing depresses me, but now I'll tell myself to not worry about it... right, done, I'm happy now", that's not how it works. But if you can't fix the original problem, then it's really between "let it drag me down" and "get over it". It's like glass half full or half empty, no matter how you see it, it will have the same amount. But one way to look at it can be better than other. It's easy to see when you're outside observer and watch it happening to someone else. It's more difficult when it's you, as it requires to distance yourself from it first, but being depressed prevents you from easily doing that. But it's worth to try.

He's got a solid base of people that support him, he's achieved his patreon goals, wtf does he want more?
That's a bit too materialistic aproach. It can still suck when you offer very fair deal (everything free after two weeks) and people can't even respect that.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: akselx and alex2011

LooLoo Baloo

Member
Mar 15, 2021
303
1,365


Looks pretty solid to me, and debunks his whole spiel about it hurting his bottom line.

He's got a solid base of people that support him, he's achieved his patreon goals, wtf does he want more?
Yeah, it's safe to say that Sel won't need a day job anytime soon. Also, people keep trying to downplay how much larger developers make from patreon by adding minor and in some cases irrelevant types of costs to it. A lot of these costs would be minuscule compared to what they actually make
People always do it for summertime saga. They make over £52,000 sterling in revenue, and yet people pretend 99% of it is taxed by adding taxes that aren't even relevant
And for this game, it's good that Sel makes enough money to fund the game. We don't need to pretend he's desperate. I'm happy for him. He's deserved it
I don't agree with leaking games instantly, developers should have control over when their games is released. However in the case of the money, the game IS fully financed and safe
 
Last edited:

Marphey

Active Member
May 13, 2019
784
1,172
The irony is, if games appear here within hours of being made available to patrons, there's less incentive to become a patron.
That translates into less revenue for the dev.
That translates to them potentially needing to get a day job.
That cuts into dev time, leading to longer delays between updates, lower quality updates, or both.
The end result is an abandoned game.

Leaks are going to happen, but they shouldn't happen so quickly that it disincentivizes patronage.
You can't really do nothing against it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mannice431

alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
7,716
4,454
Imagine going on pirate site and preach about how piracy is wrong.
Selebus is the developer, so he is allowed to complain because it is his game.


Yeah, no, it's programed.

Not how humans work. If that were the case, we would all be just happy to have what we currently have and be content.


It be preaching to the wrong crowd, but what's wrong with that?
Unlikely, this doesn't seem to be a simulation, but instead a 'real' world, quotes because this is not the real world as in what we players live in. What we are likely seeing is the slow process of worsening mental instability. I have no reason to believe that this is a simulation just yet, though I have a theory or two based on that in reserve.

You're spot on with your second reply in this comment, humans don't just stop worrying because nothing can be done.

Absolutely nothing is wrong with that third part, it won't do much, but it isn't wrong.

Yasu is such an interesting character, she's like a cute girl version of the ranting evangelical hobos that I give cigarettes to outside the bus station. Fucking love her.

And I consider it divine fate that Touka joins the class a week after I discover my penchant for himederes from reading Majikoi
I like Touka being in the class because now I get to watch her fall as well, maybe even participate in it. She might even be the one character I'm willing to overlook player Sensei pulling a Miku on, you'll know what I mean by pulling a Miku once you finish Miku's stuff so far if you haven't already. I hate himederes with a passion, though I don't dislike the ones who are kind and gentle, the ones who don't ignore their own status, but also don't lord it over everyone else like some sort of dictator, and who tend to be nice toward people of lower status. This second type also doesn't come with that annoying laugh that himederes ALWAYS come with when portrayed as stuck up rich girls. Example, the snobby personality in Koikatsu, the program used in making the graphics for this game, has that laugh and it comes out nearly every time a girl with that personality comes to you or you go to them. The personality in game, and therefore any girl that uses it, is also EXTREMELY stuck up, though not as bad as in some anime, where they act like some sort of royalty when they often aren't, hence the name of the archetype as "hime" is princess in Japanese and dere is from the word "dere dere" meaning lovestruck. Touka seems to be a middle ground himedere, one who isn't stuck up, but one who doesn't treat the lower classes almost like equals either. She seems more like one that has yet to learn the ways of her own class and has not learned the behavior of looking down on people, but she knows for sure she is in a higher social class than others like Sensei. She's just not at the point of defining how she treats them. Assuming we ever get to see her development as a himedere, not just as Touka, I hope she turns toward the kinder side of the archetype.

The irony is, if games appear here within hours of being made available to patrons, there's less incentive to become a patron.
That translates into less revenue for the dev.
That translates to them potentially needing to get a day job.
That cuts into dev time, leading to longer delays between updates, lower quality updates, or both.
The end result is an abandoned game.

Leaks are going to happen, but they shouldn't happen so quickly that it disincentivizes patronage.
Exactly

Well, that's the challenge. I'm not saying it's simple choice when it's happening to you. "This thing depresses me, but now I'll tell myself to not worry about it... right, done, I'm happy now", that's not how it works. But if you can't fix the original problem, then it's really between "let it drag me down" and "get over it". It's like glass half full or half empty, no matter how you see it, it will have the same amount. But one way to look at it can be better than other. It's easy to see when you're outside observer and watch it happening to someone else. It's more difficult when it's you, as it requires to distance yourself from it first, but being depressed prevents you from easily doing that. But it's worth to try.


That's a bit too materialistic aproach. It can still suck when you offer very fair deal (everything free after two weeks) and people can't even respect that.
Out of those two things, get over it is not an option while it's still happening right in front of you. Things would be different if it suddenly stopped and Selebus was dealing with the aftermath, but he isn't. The issue boils down to exactly what barglenarglezous said above you.

Your second point in reply to mannice431 is perfectly said, Selebus is offering an extremely fair deal, no exclusive content, the only thing you even get by paying is access to stuff outside the game and your name in the game, location in game depending on choice and tier of patronage. There is literally nothing people don't get without paying.

Yeah, it's safe to say that Sel won't need a day job anytime soon. Also, people keep trying to downplay how much larger developers make from patreon by adding minor and in some cases irrelevant types of costs to it. A lot of these costs would be minuscule compared to what they actually make
People always do it for summertime saga. They make over £52,000 sterling in revenue, and yet people pretend 99% of it is taxed by adding taxes that aren't even relevant
And for this game, it's good that Sel makes enough money to fund the game. We don't need to pretend he's desperate. I'm happy for him. He's deserved it
I don't agree with leaking games instantly, developers should have control over when their games is released. However in the case of the money, the game IS fully financed and safe
It isn't downplaying, it's being realistic. Patreon developers don't just get all of the money listed on Patreon, or graphtreon, every month, they sometimes have to deal with taxes, which can take quite a large chunk of it in some places, and definitely have to deal with other expenses like bills, which definitely take a large chunk. Then there's also the stuff that goes on before they even get it, that 10k is the total coming in, but Patreon and other sites like it take a portion of that as their share for allowing the developer to use the site.

The only number we as average players ever see is the total coming in, we never actually get to see the actual amount made after all fees, taxes, and expenses are paid.

You can't really do nothing against it.
No, he can't, that's why he's distancing himself instead of continuing to watch and letting his mental and emotional health decline.
 
  • Like
Reactions: akselx

LooLoo Baloo

Member
Mar 15, 2021
303
1,365
Selebus is the developer, so he is allowed to complain because it is his game.



Unlikely, this doesn't seem to be a simulation, but instead a 'real' world, quotes because this is not the real world as in what we players live in. What we are likely seeing is the slow process of worsening mental instability. I have no reason to believe that this is a simulation just yet, though I have a theory or two based on that in reserve.

You're spot on with your second reply in this comment, humans don't just stop worrying because nothing can be done.

Absolutely nothing is wrong with that third part, it won't do much, but it isn't wrong.


I like Touka being in the class because now I get to watch her fall as well, maybe even participate in it. She might even be the one character I'm willing to overlook player Sensei pulling a Miku on, you'll know what I mean by pulling a Miku once you finish Miku's stuff so far if you haven't already. I hate himederes with a passion, though I don't dislike the ones who are kind and gentle, the ones who don't ignore their own status, but also don't lord it over everyone else like some sort of dictator, and who tend to be nice toward people of lower status. This second type also doesn't come with that annoying laugh that himederes ALWAYS come with when portrayed as stuck up rich girls. Example, the snobby personality in Koikatsu, the program used in making the graphics for this game, has that laugh and it comes out nearly every time a girl with that personality comes to you or you go to them. The personality in game, and therefore any girl that uses it, is also EXTREMELY stuck up, though not as bad as in some anime, where they act like some sort of royalty when they often aren't, hence the name of the archetype as "hime" is princess in Japanese and dere is from the word "dere dere" meaning lovestruck. Touka seems to be a middle ground himedere, one who isn't stuck up, but one who doesn't treat the lower classes almost like equals either. She seems more like one that has yet to learn the ways of her own class and has not learned the behavior of looking down on people, but she knows for sure she is in a higher social class than others like Sensei. She's just not at the point of defining how she treats them. Assuming we ever get to see her development as a himedere, not just as Touka, I hope she turns toward the kinder side of the archetype.


Exactly


Out of those two things, get over it is not an option while it's still happening right in front of you. Things would be different if it suddenly stopped and Selebus was dealing with the aftermath, but he isn't. The issue boils down to exactly what barglenarglezous said above you.

Your second point in reply to mannice431 is perfectly said, Selebus is offering an extremely fair deal, no exclusive content, the only thing you even get by paying is access to stuff outside the game and your name in the game, location in game depending on choice and tier of patronage. There is literally nothing people don't get without paying.


It isn't downplaying, it's being realistic. Patreon developers don't just get all of the money listed on Patreon, or graphtreon, every month, they sometimes have to deal with taxes, which can take quite a large chunk of it in some places, and definitely have to deal with other expenses like bills, which definitely take a large chunk. Then there's also the stuff that goes on before they even get it, that 10k is the total coming in, but Patreon and other sites like it take a portion of that as their share for allowing the developer to use the site.

The only number we as average players ever see is the total coming in, we never actually get to see the actual amount made after all fees, taxes, and expenses are paid.


No, he can't, that's why he's distancing himself instead of continuing to watch and letting his mental and emotional health decline.
You can apply that logic to everyone. Unless they actively evade taxes, you can safely say each person here pays taxes as well as have other expenses, and different 'fees' that they have to pay for. So yes, it will be lower than what can be seen. But not only is that an insignificant change, but each person here will get 'paid less' than what they see on their wages.
And so there is no point trying to devalue what Sel is getting. I'm happy for him, and it will only grow. Some may get jealous, that's not me. The games fully funded and that should be applauded, not hyper analysed
Because at the end of the day, it's his personal information. I'm not sure why his personal taxes should concern any of us. He's doing well. Regardless of any minor fees that patreon takes. That's all that needs to be said
 
Last edited:

alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
7,716
4,454
You can apply that logic to everyone. Unless they actively evade taxes, you can safely say each person here pays taxes as well as have other expenses, and different 'fees' that they have to pay for. So yes, it will be lower than what can be seen. But not only is that an insignificant change, but each person here will get 'paid less' than what they see on their wages.
And so there is no point trying to devalue what Sel is getting. I'm happy for him, and it will only grow. Some may get jealous, that's not me. The games fully funded and that should be applauded, not hyper analysed
Because at the end of the day, it's his personal information. I'm not sure why his personal taxes should concern any of us. He's doing well. Regardless of any minor fees that patreon takes. That's all that needs to be said
Yes, and that logic blows the logic that Selebus is making 10k out of the water because, while it may seem small, small problems add up. That isn't devaluing what he makes, it's putting a value on what he isn't, those are two very different things. We're talking a loss of potential income anywhere from $24 to $1200 USD per person a year, which can go a long way toward many a goal. If you have a minimum of $2 per month and you have 10 people who are considering buying in, then they find it for $0 elsewhere, that's $240 to $12,000 in lost potential income. That's a lot of loss.

As for the fully funded part, it is, but that is entirely dependent on maintaining a good enough level of income to pay for anything the money goes toward, which includes his personal taxes. That is why it was brought up, the same as Patreon fees and any other expenses. The second either his income drops or his total expenses rise beyond the acceptable levels of each, he has to find a second income source, a job outside of development, which immediately puts the game in danger whether it is funded or not because he then has a time shortage.

NOTE: Monetary numbers for my example are taken from SubscribeStar, Patreon may be different in terms of minimum and maximum tier.
 

barglenarglezous

Engaged Member
Sep 5, 2020
2,285
4,136
NOTE: Monetary numbers for my example are taken from SubscribeStar, Patreon may be different in terms of minimum and maximum tier.
Breaking down Patreon's fees:

Patroen gets %2.9 + 0.30 from every donation, which comes out to $0.45 for a $5 patron.

There's also the platform fee, which ranges from %5 to %12 depending on the package you sign up for (to have membership tiers requires at least an %8 fee). That can become a large number at the level of support this game gets, but %92 of a lot is still a lot.

Let's not kid ourselves, at the current level of support this game gets (deservedly so), he's making more than the average joe right now.

But Patreon funding is volatile. They could yank the account on a whim, most likely because of the niece thing which skirts their line. And if the game moves in a direction players don't like, that can cause a sharp drop in patrons -- and let's be honest, when the game moves into darker territory, a lot of people are gonna get salty and withdraw support. That aspect of the game is not as consistently popular as the lighter side.
 
  • Like
Reactions: crustlord12

kasatik_spb

Member
Jul 15, 2020
244
552
Hi!
Here is the Russian translation of Lessons in Love [v0.16.0 Part1].
This translation is "unofficial".

The link is: Here


***********************************************************************

Привет!
Это перевод на Русский язык визуальной новеллы Lessons in Love [v0.16.0 Part1 ].
Этот перевод является неофициальным.

Ссылка : Здесь
 

buff

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2017
1,017
1,547
I've been playing this game without sound for a while now and have not run into any problems.
The game is playable that way, tbh. You miss out on some jump scares, there's at least one scene where the answer to a riddle is told to you audibly, and the OST is trash to begin with but becomes pretty damned good during events later. It's one of only two games (along with Harem Collector) where I actually play with the sound on-- it helps that it doesn't have Cheesy Japanese Sex Noises like most games of this sort, so having the sound on isn't going to make my wife or kids wander over to see wtf is going on.


TL,DR: if you use a guide you don't need sound, but it honestly does make the game better.
 

mannice431

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2017
1,007
1,076
What a stupid ducking thing to say. It's like you don't human very well.
I human very well, thank you very much. I'm not the one abstaining from going onto a piracy site because people are pirating a game i made.

His goals have been achieved, it has not affected his bottom line (that graph clearly debunks that argument), he's got nothing (on that front) to worry about.
 

buff

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2017
1,017
1,547


Looks pretty solid to me, and debunks his whole spiel about it hurting his bottom line.

He's got a solid base of people that support him, he's achieved his patreon goals, wtf does he want more?
I don't think making a good income means that nothing ever makes it go down. That's not how numbers work.

Also, if you've ever met a human, you'll probably notice that they don't like feeling ripped off, and that is unrelated to income level. People also want to improve their lot in life, also without regard to current income level. A poor person in the US is filthy rich by Somali standards, and yet the want more. I have a decent car and yet I'd like one that is actually *good*. This is how humans tick, and it's normal and okay. Just because you want free shit doesn't make someone else bad for wanting what they've earned.

Now, all that being said, I do doubt that there are a significant number of people who would totally pledge $5 but don't because piracy sites exist. The world is a big place so there are probably a very few such folks, so I suspect but cannot prove that the number of pledging fans he gains because they found the game on F95 tremendously exceed the number of people who can afford $5 but won't pay it because of piracy.

Thing is, this game is so fucking good that a lot of people find it (by whatever means) and are impressed enough to just want to chuck a little money at the guy. He deserves it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Solution_CC

mannice431

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2017
1,007
1,076
You went on a tangent there about a bunch of things, but the bottom line is that he's achieved all the goals he set out to achieve, and it's exactly because of sites like this that he has done so.

He would have to fuck up on a grotesque level for his numbers to go substantially down (that or quitting for months on end).

Like i said previously, i'm a patreon supporter of him myself, but he has got zero reasons (on the financial front) to complain about this, with the money he's making, he's one of the big boys now.

Piracy helps everyone out (especially nowadays).
 

buff

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2017
1,017
1,547
You went on a tangent there about a bunch of things, but the bottom line is that he's achieved all the goals he set out to achieve, and it's exactly because of sites like this that he has done so.

He would have to fuck up on a grotesque level for his numbers to go substantially down (that or quitting for months on end).

Like i said previously, i'm a patreon supporter of him myself, but he has got zero reasons (on the financial front) to complain about this, with the money he's making, he's one of the big boys now.

Piracy helps everyone out (especially nowadays).
LOL.... ok, fair enough, I did.

I agree with you that it helps, and I find his reasoning flawed. I do, however, think that he is within his rights to bitch about it and given his (possibly flawed) assumptions, from his POV he has good reason. To put it more succinctly, he has more right to bitch about piracy than I have to bitch about him bitching.

The financial front bit is irrelevant. The fact that someone has money doesn't mean they have less right to keep what is theres (IMHO).
 
4.20 star(s) 296 Votes