Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

[Kitsune241]

Did the game get to big for andtor has the android version been ditched

Yes

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TLDR: You'll have to use an emulator on android from here on.

 

[Lordhellsing]

Yes

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TLDR: You'll have to use an emulator on android from here on.

I know a guy who made his own port for Android for his game that could help this game out

 

[alex2011]

Breaking down Patreon's fees:

Patroen gets %2.9 + 0.30 from every donation, which comes out to $0.45 for a $5 patron.

There's also the platform fee, which ranges from %5 to %12 depending on the package you sign up for (to have membership tiers requires at least an %8 fee). That can become a large number at the level of support this game gets, but %92 of a lot is still a lot.

Let's not kid ourselves, at the current level of support this game gets (deservedly so), he's making more than the average joe right now.

But Patreon funding is volatile. They could yank the account on a whim, most likely because of the niece thing which skirts their line. And if the game moves in a direction players don't like, that can cause a sharp drop in patrons -- and let's be honest, when the game moves into darker territory, a lot of people are gonna get salty and withdraw support. That aspect of the game is not as consistently popular as the lighter side.

There's no doubt he's making more than the general average, I won't argue that, it's that third point you made I'm talking about, the volatility of this income source. I doubt that Patreon will be an issue for incest, they rarely strike on a relationship like that one and I've never seen a niece/uncle game get hit. Add onto that that the actual player character is implied at first to be someone different in his body and they may overlook any part after that because of this 'clear evidence' that he is not. Especially with a secondary SubscribeStar in play, that means a ToS violation isn't really an issue even if he does get hit, but that doesn't mean the income is any less volatile. That next part is easily the biggest threat in this regard, players can be extremely fickle at times and all it takes is the tiniest undesired change for a patron to stop supporting. Make a change that enough people don't like, even if it does not eliminate funding entirely, and he won't have the funding to continue with that income alone like he is now. That then means getting a new source, a job, which then takes away time. Time is the absolute most critical resource a game developer needs. I also believe there is almost guaranteed to be a sharp drop in support due to the darker content coming in the future, the Denpa genre doesn't exactly have a large following for that very reason, not everyone likes dark content and so they will refuse to support it. I am, of course, not one who would drop for that because I actually like darker content, but my own feelings on it are beside the point.

The game is playable that way, tbh. You miss out on some jump scares, there's at least one scene where the answer to a riddle is told to you audibly, and the OST is trash to begin with but becomes pretty damned good during events later. It's one of only two games (along with Harem Collector) where I actually play with the sound on-- it helps that it doesn't have Cheesy Japanese Sex Noises like most games of this sort, so having the sound on isn't going to make my wife or kids wander over to see wtf is going on.


TL,DR: if you use a guide you don't need sound, but it honestly does make the game better.

I actually like the soundtrack, though this is why it is risky to use royalty free stuff that already exists instead of original music, but not everyone has the knowledge of music needed to be able to do so. I would really be struggling to bear the game with sound on if it had those sex sounds, I tend to turn that off by any means available, preferably by controls that are specific to those sounds.

I human very well, thank you very much. I'm not the one abstaining from going onto a piracy site because people are pirating a game i made.

His goals have been achieved, it has not affected his bottom line (that graph clearly debunks that argument), he's got nothing (on that front) to worry about.

I think you mean he's got nothing on that front to worry about YET. A sharp drop in patrons, such as the one that is likely to result from dark content being very niche content that most people will turn away from when it really goes south, can ruin his income entirely. There's not even any way to tell how many of his active patrons are willing to continue even with that dark content, I may be the only patron left standing or we may all continue despite the dark content, only when we get to that point will we know for sure. I can only say for sure that I will remain no matter the content he adds.

It's just like incest or loli, any kind of niche content bears the risk of turning people, even active patrons, away instantly and potentially in numbers great enough to cripple the project.

I don't think making a good income means that nothing ever makes it go down. That's not how numbers work.

Also, if you've ever met a human, you'll probably notice that they don't like feeling ripped off, and that is unrelated to income level. People also want to improve their lot in life, also without regard to current income level. A poor person in the US is filthy rich by Somali standards, and yet the want more. I have a decent car and yet I'd like one that is actually *good*. This is how humans tick, and it's normal and okay. Just because you want free shit doesn't make someone else bad for wanting what they've earned.

Now, all that being said, I do doubt that there are a significant number of people who would totally pledge $5 but don't because piracy sites exist. The world is a big place so there are probably a very few such folks, so I suspect but cannot prove that the number of pledging fans he gains because they found the game on F95 tremendously exceed the number of people who can afford $5 but won't pay it because of piracy.

Thing is, this game is so fucking good that a lot of people find it (by whatever means) and are impressed enough to just want to chuck a little money at the guy. He deserves it.

That is correct, there is always something that could bring his income to an abrupt end with an income as volatile as Patreon/SubscribeStar. Income does not stay flowing at the same level, it can and will rise or fall depending on certain circumstances with player preferences being the most dangerous of those circumstances.

You went on a tangent there about a bunch of things, but the bottom line is that he's achieved all the goals he set out to achieve, and it's exactly because of sites like this that he has done so.

He would have to fuck up on a grotesque level for his numbers to go substantially down (that or quitting for months on end).

Like i said previously, i'm a patreon supporter of him myself, but he has got zero reasons (on the financial front) to complain about this, with the money he's making, he's one of the big boys now.

Piracy helps everyone out (especially nowadays).

He doesn't need a reason to complain, when things are being stolen right in front of your very eyes, you automatically have the right to complain about it.

Also, you underestimate how fickle players can be, not that many people like dark content, or incest, which Ami legally counts as assuming the whole 'player Sensei is another personality' theory I have going or another theory putting the Sensei in control now as the same Sensei she's always known are true. That could very easily cause a drop in support with each part that is added that certain patrons don't like.

I don't know if you've noticed, but there have been several people in this thread alone who have specifically asked if there was a way to avoid the content already in the game with both Ami and the darker aspects of the game. We're not even into the truly dark side of the story yet, so try multiplying that by a factor of 10 and you'll see the kind of response he might get, monetarily or through comments. He's more likely than not to get a negative response to it.

LOL.... ok, fair enough, I did.

I agree with you that it helps, and I find his reasoning flawed. I do, however, think that he is within his rights to bitch about it and given his (possibly flawed) assumptions, from his POV he has good reason. To put it more succinctly, he has more right to bitch about piracy than I have to bitch about him bitching.

The financial front bit is irrelevant. The fact that someone has money doesn't mean they have less right to keep what is theres (IMHO).

He is within his right to complain, that is correct. That is really the only point I'm making myself with a bunch of little sub-points to go with it.

I know a guy who made his own port for Android for his game that could help this game out

Ports have a tendency to break the game even more than it already was by trying to play it the normal way on Android. The compressed versions you see pop up on occasion are especially volatile in this regard as compression can do things to a game that were never intended and were never planned around. Android just doesn't do large files very well, it was made for mobile devices, which are meant to only use smaller files in the first place.

 

[marcalo]

This site is by far the best source I've found for finding games like this and I support several games I've found here, including this one. With a few exceptions, I haven't seen adverts for any of these games anywhere and I would not even know about them otherwise. While the concept of piracy may get some people up in arms, it really comes with its own set of benefits. It's literally how free to play with in-app purchase mobile games work. Build a good game and you get your following.

 

[alex2011]

This site is by far the best source I've found for finding games like this and I support several games I've found here, including this one. With a few exceptions, I haven't seen adverts for any of these games anywhere and I would not even know about them otherwise. While the concept of piracy may get some people up in arms, it really comes with its own set of benefits. It's literally how free to play with in-app purchase mobile games work. Build a good game and you get your following.

It is, for all intents and purposes, a double edged sword.

 

[Marphey]

Imagine thinking piracy isn't wrong.

My point still pretty much stands

 

[alex2011]

My point still pretty much stands

As does his, just because this is a piracy forum does not exempt it from the complaints of any developer active here whose work is being pirated by said forum.

 

[Marphey]

As does his, just because this is a piracy forum does not exempt it from the complaints of any developer active here whose work is being pirated by said forum.

His complaints however are completly usless. People are going to pirate no matter what you do. Especially when you have people like developers behind Milftoon Drama and INCSTOR screwing people over on Patreon.

 

[alex2011]

His complaints however are completly usless. People are going to pirate no matter what you do. Especially when you have people like developers behind Milftoon Drama and INCSTOR screwing people over on Patreon.

As useless as they may be, he is allowed to give them. The Milftoon Drama nd INCSTOR issue is completely different because of their actions.

 

[LooLoo Baloo]

This site is by far the best source I've found for finding games like this and I support several games I've found here, including this one. With a few exceptions, I haven't seen adverts for any of these games anywhere and I would not even know about them otherwise. While the concept of piracy may get some people up in arms, it really comes with its own set of benefits. It's literally how free to play with in-app purchase mobile games work. Build a good game and you get your following.

Indeed, I feel the same. On this website I've found great games that I wouldn't have even known existed

You went on a tangent there about a bunch of things, but the bottom line is that he's achieved all the goals he set out to achieve, and it's exactly because of sites like this that he has done so.

He would have to fuck up on a grotesque level for his numbers to go substantially down (that or quitting for months on end).

Like i said previously, i'm a patreon supporter of him myself, but he has got zero reasons (on the financial front) to complain about this, with the money he's making, he's one of the big boys now.

Piracy helps everyone out (especially nowadays).

It certainly has helped the majority of games that are listed here. There's also the fact that a lot of people support the games because they like them, not simply because they want them early. So while it can reduce potential revenue a game makes, a lot of people will decide to support it anyway. As well as that, the more a game is put out on this website, the more people will play, and in turn potentially support it

Having said that, seeing as Sel releases the game for free after 2 weeks anyway, this game in particular isn't being helped from the leaks. Because he would allow it to be here when it was agreed to be anyway

Smaller games can benefit from the leaks, as they will gain the publicity to really get going. But larger games like this, or games that release their updates for free at a later date, won't benefit

So while he has hit all of his targets, it's only natural to want to grow the game even more, and gain more support. As well as that, the patrons deserve to receive their benefits for supporting the game. Which includes the benefit of an early release, which a leak denies them

So overall, leaking lessons in love just denies people of their benefits, and reduces the amount of increased support it can receive per update

 

[Raf-Raf]

Well now, This will be one of the few games where I play unmuted then~~~

 

[JMccovery]

His complaints however are completly usless. People are going to pirate no matter what you do.

You do know that piracy in itself isn't the main point, it's people being unable to wait two weeks to get it for free; that someone who supports him leaks the game, when a two-week wait isn't going to deprive anyone of enjoying this game.

 

[Marphey]

You do know that piracy in itself isn't the main point, it's people being unable to wait two weeks to get it for free; that someone who supports him leaks the game, when a two-week wait isn't going to deprive anyone of enjoying this game.

It's not that they are unable to wait they would wait but since the update is available people will download it. The cat is already out of bag it's pointless to bitch about it. Only think he can do is ask on his patreon page to not leak his game too early that's it.

 

[npezone]

That's kind of a reason I think that Sel is going to stay away from F95. It has to be a hit to his mental when the last few updates have been leaked so quickly after release.

I’d like to point out what seems to me an obvious flaw in reasoning that “leaked = F95 bad”: specifically that the origin is a particular member on Paetron.
I’m reading between the lines in that a specific account on Paetron has been responsible for these. Logic (to me) would dictate that the frustration is with Paetron (or at least the community there).

I realise I don’t visit as often as some / most, but aside from a few things like sentiments on the recent Miku updates; I don’t see much negativity for this VN/game here.
Just because there’s active discussion of the title doesn’t mean there aren’t a dozen other places where the leak gets posted at the same time.

 

[akselx]

It feels like people in this thread just want to feel validated on their piracy habits (which I don't actually judge, since I indulge myself and only pay for the things I really like) so much, they need to reinforce in every reply how beneficial piracy is for games and it's not at all morally dubious and a dev just obligated to be happy with whatever it is we doing here, since his bottom line isn't hurting.
Aw, what's that? You don't like when your game getting leaked on the first day of its release to patreons, you greedy swine? You already making good money, how dare you be mildly critical and say its effects your mental health, when there are children starving in Africa. Selebus should really think of starving children and shut his greedy mouth. You see, I'm basically Jesus Christ himself, so when I benevolently grace his game with my attention, he should be forever grateful. Something like that.

 

[Deleted member 407466]

Jesus, this thread has really gone off the rails. Isn't it about time for a mod to step in and rein things back in?

 

[Lolicon Kami]

It feels like people in this thread just want to feel validated on their piracy habits (which I don't actually judge, since I indulge myself and only pay for the things I really like) so much, they need to reinforce in every reply how beneficial piracy is for games and it's not at all morally dubious and a dev just obligated to be happy with whatever it is we doing here, since his bottom line isn't hurting.
Aw, what's that? You don't like when your game getting leaked on the first day of its release to patreons, you greedy swine? You already making good money, how dare you be mildly critical and say its effects your mental health, when there are children starving in Africa. Selebus should really think of starving children and shut his greedy mouth. You see, I'm basically Jesus Christ himself, so when I benevolently grace his game with my attention, he should be forever grateful. Something like that.

Are you being sarcastic? If so, could you indicate with something such as /s please? Unfortunately in this age and time there are real people who would say things like you for real and feel completely validated, so I can't really tell

Thanks!

 

[Raf-Raf]

I'm just here for the smut...

 

[r3ck5]

I don’t see much negativity for this VN/game here.

I'll just comment on this part, cause I'm not awake enough to put my thoughts in the right order for the piracy part.

Check the reviews. There's quite a few recent reviews that are negative towards the game. I don't agree with them whatsoever, but they're still entitled to their own opinion. Unfortunately, Sel takes them to heart.

 

[Twistty]

Jesus, this thread has really gone off the rails. Isn't it about time for a mod to step in and rein things back in?

Possibly?! - as Selebus is or was very active is this community.
He was sharing updates freely, and communicating with all of us here! (Often!)
Not really fair releasing an (early) update - of this game - all things considered.
Just my personal opinion - as a former staff.
But being a part of F95Zone - is a double edged sword.
Great for early exposure - kind of hurts - sometimes - when you are popular.

Amazing game - one of the best writers and story tellers - I have ever experienced!!! Period (And I have played tons of games - from this site and elsewhere!)

As for "reining things back in?" - not so sure?
Everyone has their opinion - mine says - let the 2 short weeks expire - then update this thread - others differ.
Best to let the community - be it - good, bad or otherwise - openly decide.
Hopefully - some will join him on

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- as I have recently done!
Selebus basically asks for nothing (monetary support wise) - and is a workaholic - just sayin!
Well worth it - even just for the Gravure contests - lol
Which - I do not have - so please don't ask !!!
(If your not there - your missing out - just so you know! )

Cheers