Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

[alex2011]

Indeed, I feel the same. On this website I've found great games that I wouldn't have even known existed


It certainly has helped the majority of games that are listed here. There's also the fact that a lot of people support the games because they like them, not simply because they want them early. So while it can reduce potential revenue a game makes, a lot of people will decide to support it anyway. As well as that, the more a game is put out on this website, the more people will play, and in turn potentially support it

Having said that, seeing as Sel releases the game for free after 2 weeks anyway, this game in particular isn't being helped from the leaks. Because he would allow it to be here when it was agreed to be anyway

Smaller games can benefit from the leaks, as they will gain the publicity to really get going. But larger games like this, or games that release their updates for free at a later date, won't benefit

So while he has hit all of his targets, it's only natural to want to grow the game even more, and gain more support. As well as that, the patrons deserve to receive their benefits for supporting the game. Which includes the benefit of an early release, which a leak denies them

So overall, leaking lessons in love just denies people of their benefits, and reduces the amount of increased support it can receive per update

As far as finding out about games, the same can be said of me with this game specifically. It was only through this site that I found this game. On the rest, I agree. If Selebus wasn't allowing the game to be released free after a short period anyway, the leaks would pose a potential benefit as that gives the possibility of playing to players who can't afford to pay. However, because it is released free after two weeks, that reasoning does not apply. Another valid point is the size of the game, not file size, but the following whether the entire following supports it or not monetarily. Bigger games, like this one, won't gain anything from leaks. They only stand to lose as people move from official source links to pirate source links, which isn't guaranteed, but is a threat. I keep forgetting certain tiers have a slightly earlier release, and here I am thinking of moving to one such tier without even taking that into consideration, I was just going to download with the $5 tier like the $5 patrons and I already do. There's a few more benefits out there, but I'll let people read those themselves if they're truly interested.

You do know that piracy in itself isn't the main point, it's people being unable to wait two weeks to get it for free; that someone who supports him leaks the game, when a two-week wait isn't going to deprive anyone of enjoying this game.

That''s exactly it, some of us patrons don't have a direct problem with piracy, such as myself, but the wait between public and patron versions just doesn't warrant it in this case, it's just two weeks.

It's not that they are unable to wait they would wait but since the update is available people will download it. The cat is already out of bag it's pointless to bitch about it. Only think he can do is ask on his patreon page to not leak his game too early that's it.

Or he could take measures like bringing the ban hammer down and exiling patrons who leak it like some other developers do. As a patron, I would be perfectly fine with that since I will never see it come down on me as leaking goes against my own code. I may be a pirate, but whoever said there is no honor among thieves was wrong on this thief specifically. I only do it when there is no other option.

There's also the option of restricting download links to patron builds to messages, which is not foolproof, but is more secure against leaking. I have another developer, a modder for Koikatsu, who does this and no patron version has been leaked in a long time.

As far as pointlessness, that does not matter, he can complain if he wants.

I’d like to point out what seems to me an obvious flaw in reasoning that “leaked = F95 bad”: specifically that the origin is a particular member on Paetron.
I’m reading between the lines in that a specific account on Paetron has been responsible for these. Logic (to me) would dictate that the frustration is with Paetron (or at least the community there).

I realise I don’t visit as often as some / most, but aside from a few things like sentiments on the recent Miku updates; I don’t see much negativity for this VN/game here.
Just because there’s active discussion of the title doesn’t mean there aren’t a dozen other places where the leak gets posted at the same time.

The patron(s) in question is/are more of an enabling factor for the issue than the actual issue itself.

It feels like people in this thread just want to feel validated on their piracy habits (which I don't actually judge, since I indulge myself and only pay for the things I really like) so much, they need to reinforce in every reply how beneficial piracy is for games and it's not at all morally dubious and a dev just obligated to be happy with whatever it is we doing here, since his bottom line isn't hurting.
Aw, what's that? You don't like when your game getting leaked on the first day of its release to patreons, you greedy swine? You already making good money, how dare you be mildly critical and say its effects your mental health, when there are children starving in Africa. Selebus should really think of starving children and shut his greedy mouth. You see, I'm basically Jesus Christ himself, so when I benevolently grace his game with my attention, he should be forever grateful. Something like that.

No judgement here, since that would be throwing a stone from inside a glass house, but that does seem to be the case. The thing is that some of the listed justifications are factually untrue. No developer needs to be happy about it, benefits don't apply to larger games like this one, and it is actually VERY morally dubious. Hell, as unlikely as it is, just having this site in our history is a potential threat of law enforcement coming down on us because of the nature of the site. The only thing keeping that from happening is how little enforcement actually happens against piracy, at best you'll get an ISP notice to knock it off or lose your internet.

The rest is going a bit far, don't you think? I don't mean the point, I mean the tone you used.

Are you being sarcastic? If so, could you indicate with something such as /s please? Unfortunately in this age and time there are real people who would say things like you for real and feel completely validated, so I can't really tell

Thanks!

Some of it was definite sarcasm, but some was not. I found it pretty clear which was which, actually, but you're right, some people may not.

I'll just comment on this part, cause I'm not awake enough to put my thoughts in the right order for the piracy part.

Check the reviews. There's quite a few recent reviews that are negative towards the game. I don't agree with them whatsoever, but they're still entitled to their own opinion. Unfortunately, Sel takes them to heart.

He does, which is a sign of a good developer. While he is sticking to his own vision, he is also not completely ignoring his players. I also disagree with the negative reviews because a majority of the negativity boils down to people not liking elements that are inherent in this type of game, especially the Denpa aspects. That was a pretty widespread complaint for some time, that there was 'too much darkness' going on or something like that. Then there's the complaints about there being consequences that people completely miss because they didn't read or didn't get to an event in time. Then finally the complaints about certain puzzles needing certain things like sound.

Possibly - as Selebus is or was very active is this community.
He was sharing updates freely, and communicating with all of us here! (Often!)
Not really fair releasing an (early) update - with this game - all things considered.
Just my personal opinion - as a former staff.
But being a part of F95Zone - is a double edged sword.
Great for early exposure - kind of hurts - sometimes - when you are popular.

Amazing game - one of the best writers and story tellers - I have ever experienced!!! Period (And I have play tons of games)

As for "reining things back in?" - not so sure?
Everyone has their opinion - mine says - let the 2 short weeks expire - then update this thread - others differ.
Best to let the community - be it - good, bad or otherwise - openly decide.
Hopefully - some will join him on

You must be registered to see the links

- as I have recently done!

Cheers

Very well said

 

[SecretUser95]

I'll just comment on this part, cause I'm not awake enough to put my thoughts in the right order for the piracy part.

Check the reviews. There's quite a few recent reviews that are negative towards the game. I don't agree with them whatsoever, but they're still entitled to their own opinion. Unfortunately, Sel takes them to heart.

Honestly most the reviews are very positive, and of the negative ones, most of them call it grindy. Which on your first playthough, where you don't know the triggers, yeah, it feels that way. On my first playthrough I would up with a few characters with affection above 100 during chapter 1, at which point I said F it and got a walkthrough. And that is the biggest issue with the game, without the progression mod or a walkthrough, you will get stuck repeteadly, it's borderline unplayable. I am now during a replay and I wouldn't even consider it without the progression mod. This is still one of my favorite VNs thou. It just really needs a better hint system.

As for what people were saying that the dark path will hurt the revenue... yeah, maybe a bit ? But I think a lot of you severely understimate the popularity of mystery and horror VNs, and denpa in particular, as some of the most popular visual novels are in this genre. Umineko, Higurashi, Saya no Uta, DDLC, Subarashiki Hibi all come to mind.

 

[alex2011]

Honestly most the reviews are very positive, and of the negative ones, most of them call it grindy. Which on your first playthough, where you don't know the triggers, yeah, it feels that way. On my first playthrough I would up with a few characters with affection above 100 during chapter 1, at which point I said F it and got a walkthrough. And that is the biggest issue with the game, without the progression mod or a walkthrough, you will get stuck repeteadly, it's borderline unplayable. I am now during a replay and I wouldn't even consider it without the progression mod. This is still one of my favorite VNs thou. It just really needs a better hint system.

As for what people were saying that the dark path will hurt the revenue... yeah, maybe a bit ? But I think a lot of you severely understimate the popularity of mystery and horror VNs, and denpa in particular, as some of the most popular visual novels are in this genre. Umineko, Higurashi, Saya no Uta, DDLC, Subarashiki Hibi all come to mind.

I forgot to mention the grind complaints, that one's on me. You're right, the first time can feel that way since the player hasn't learned their way around the game yet, as with any game. There is no need for a mod or even a walkthrough as long as you follow the advice given here in the thread, don't grind any one girl too far ahead of the others, especially ones with a potential bad trigger like Chika, don't focus on only one or a few girls, and always read every word unless you know exactly what it says every time you go through that section, you never know if it ends up getting rewritten to contain something important. I did not know these three things before, in my first play through, so I failed and failed hard, but knowing these three things now, I have not missed a single event.

It really depends on the popularity front, it's a case by case issue in that regard. It is better not to risk it than to risk it and find out the game did not become another addition to that list of Horror/Mystery/Denpa games.

 

[r3ck5]

Then there's the complaints about there being consequences that people completely miss because they didn't read or didn't get to an event in time.

My only complaint about the consequences were back when the beach part originally came out. If you had done every events prior to that part releasing, you were stuck on the bad homie path because "schadenfreude" was available before the beach was in the game. I don't think I voiced the complaint and I just restarted my game to be on the good homie path. I'm 100% sure that when the game is fully released, I'll have to redo the whole game a couple times, cause denga endings, but yeah, that one moment was the only one that bugged me at the time.

 

[alex2011]

My only complaint about the consequences were back when the beach part originally came out. If you had done every events prior to that part releasing, you were stuck on the bad homie path because "schadenfreude" was available before the beach was in the game. I don't think I voiced the complaint and I just restarted my game to be on the good homie path. I'm 100% sure that when the game is fully released, I'll have to redo the whole game a couple times, cause denga endings, but yeah, that one moment was the only one that bugged me at the time.

That's the thing, if you've done every event before the beach, you also saw Cafe Mocha, where you were specifically warned not to do anything with Chika that would get in the way of Rin's chance at confessing by Rin herself. That said, I don't think Cafe Mocha was in until the beach event update, at which point it was too late for people who played before the beach event update like me and you. It was a case of bad circumstance and a lot of us fell victim to it. I'm still beating myself over that despite it being out of my control by the time I knew there was a consequence at that point in the game, but I have since steered clear of repeating that mistake, a lesson learned. This was a somewhat unique case where the action was added before the consequence and that reason no longer applies to cases of bad homie syndrome (might as well have a little fun with it) that pop up now.

Even if this wasn't a Denpa game, which it is, I would say multiple runs are inevitable as there are multiple endings planned. I actually can't wait to see where Selebus goes with them. I'm sure they will be very 'happy' endings for everyone.

 

[jesusjackct]

Selebus do you have any models of the main characters that include their whole body (like standing with full legs visible, some sort of T-pose model), and if you do, can you post them and share to me ?
Because I've been looking through the sprites and events folder and rarely got any full shots of any character. Either their legs are not in frame or they're sitting down.
And the full shots of the girls can be seen when they're in the dorm's hallway, but the background blends in, and I'm too lazy to cut it out.

 

[alex2011]

Selebus do you have any models of the main characters that include their whole body (like standing with full legs visible), and if you do, can you post them or share to me ?
Because I've been looking through the sprites and events folder and rarely got any full shots of any character. Either their legs are not in frame or they're sitting down.

Since most, if not all, shots are of them close up with the text box in the way anyway or sitting, he doesn't really have much need for full body shots, so they may just not exist outside very few instances.

I could probably do some screenshots of the characters in the studio if Selebus is alright with that, where it shows them from head to toe, since I was a patron during the time he offered the actual cards of the girls as a patron benefit, a real shame that got ruined. No, I am not giving them to anyone, I am under a strict agreement with Selebus not to share the cards, which is my main reason for not doing anything with them for the purpose of showing to other people unless he says okay. I would not share the character or scene cards, probably wouldn't save the scene anyway, only a .jpg that cannot be ripped into a usable Koikatsu character or scene.

 

[jesusjackct]

Since most, if not all, shots are of them close up with the text box in the way anyway or sitting, he doesn't really have much need for full body shots, so they may just not exist outside very few instances.

I could probably do some screenshots of the characters in the studio if Selebus is alright with that, where it shows them from head to toe, since I was a patron during the time he offered the actual cards of the girls as a patron benefit, a real shame that got ruined. No, I am not giving them to anyone, I am under a strict agreement with Selebus not to share the cards, which is my main reason for not doing anything with them for the purpose of showing to other people unless he says okay. I would not share the character or scene cards, probably wouldn't save the scene anyway, only a .jpg that cannot be ripped into a usable Koikatsu character or scene.

Understandable, thank you for your respect for the big boss selebus.

 

[pocencer]

From name, this game need ntr to perfect!!!!

 

[Raf-Raf]

From name, this game need ntr to perfect!!!!

N O.

 

[jesusjackct]

From name, this game need ntr to perfect!!!!

You mean "Lessons in love" automatically goes with ntr ?

 

[alex2011]

From name, this game need ntr to perfect!!!!

That's not even possible since Sensei is literally the only male in the game, others are only mentioned and are not even anywhere close to NTR material unless you're suggesting they rape the girls into Stockholm Syndrome. Only one guy in the entire game, Sensei and I mean player Sensei specifically, is anywhere near willing and even he won't do that, the other guys are described as nice people who would never try to do such a thing or completely oblivious to the girls even existing because they are too caught up in their work.

Yes, that was me taking a shot at Ayanae's dad for his lack of interaction with his daughter. I mean, at least he's there, but that's not enough for his own flesh and blood. Come on, man, pay attention to your daughter once in a while so she doesn't have to walk all the way down to the skullery to talk to Geoffrey.

You mean "Lessons in love" automatically goes with ntr ?

I mean, sure, if love means Stockholm Syndrome, since that's basically what it is when the girl starts asking for the guy whole stole her from her lover to mess her up and do all sorts of other things, psychologically speaking anyway. I'm no psychologist, but there's no way they actually want it, it's a mental defense mechanism at best.

Understandable, thank you for your respect for the big boss selebus.

I'll ask directly on his Discord or SubscribeStar when I get the chance, but I've got to get off for now for a few hours. I don't think he'll say no since there's no chance of actual game assets getting out, but better to be safe, I don't want to be the one to repeat the reason the characters aren't given to subscribers anymore. This could also give me the potential green light I need to share my own work on a different project that uses them, so I do have my own goal at stake as well.

 

[Raf-Raf]

That's not even possible since Sensei is literally the only male in the game,

No no, he ain't.
The others just don't get any screen time~~~

 

[alex2011]

No no, he ain't.
The others just don't get any screen time~~~

In game means making an appearance, that's why I also said the others are only mentioned. If they don't actually appear, they are not in game, just in text. In game means they have the sprites and other graphical assets player Sensei and the girls do.

 

[akselx]

If Selebus wasn't allowing the game to be released free after a short period anyway, the leaks would pose a potential benefit as that gives the possibility of playing to players who can't afford to pay. However, because it is released free after two weeks, that reasoning does not apply.

I feel like it be more beneficial to Selebus if he would stuck with twice per month instead one big update and have a public release a week after patron. It seem like there would be less incentive to leak early and it would hurt much less.

The rest is going a bit far, don't you think? I don't mean the point, I mean the tone you used.

Don't know. When people grandstand on topic of piracy and pretend to not understand how it may be discoreging for people putting work into a product it's pissiming off to no end.

Some of it was definite sarcasm, but some was not. I found it pretty clear which was which, actually, but you're right, some people may not.

I'm usually 100% serious when I call myself Jesus. It's just a thing i do.

He does, which is a sign of a good developer.

I don't thing so. That is not to say he isn't a good developer.

While he is sticking to his own vision, he is also not completely ignoring his players.

I thing taking it this personal and being as defensive as Selebus was about the game isn't the same as taking players feedback into account, not in the least. I'm glad he's distancing himself now, as I'm sure it was contributing heavily to his stress. I'm sure both patreon and discord are better in that regard.

I also disagree with the negative reviews because a majority of the negativity boils down to people not liking elements that are inherent in this type of game, especially the Denpa aspects. That was a pretty widespread complaint for some time, that there was 'too much darkness' going on or something like that. Then there's the complaints about there being consequences that people completely miss because they didn't read or didn't get to an event in time. Then finally the complaints about certain puzzles needing certain things like sound.

Some of the reviews are talking about how writing is "pretentious" and the writer like "the sound of his voice", so to speak. Which is, actually, close to how I thought about the game in the beginning.
Hey, I'm here for smut, what's this existential angst about? Opening script editor, Edgar Poe...what? Gtfo, just let me choose a name and I'd be on my merry way. I skipped a lot in the beginning, before I developed genuine interest in the story. But if it doesn't click for you, it doesn't click for you.

From name, this game need ntr to perfect!!!!

There alredy is. MC get cocked by a giant sophisticated devine vibrator machine.

No no, he ain't.
The others just don't get any screen time~~~

There is curious line in the game, how "dorms don't exist during night time", I assume because Sensei isn't around to visit them. You can say that other male characters exist only in other girls heads, until proven otherwise.

In game means making an appearance, that's why I also said the others are only mentioned. If they don't actually appear, they are not in game, just in text. In game means they have the sprites and other graphical assets player Sensei and the girls do.

You're being too real, it's no fun.

 

[jackkane]

Hey that song is fuckin' great and deserves to be louder than an atomic bomb

what's the name of the song, and artist?

 

[alex2011]

I feel like it be more beneficial to Selebus if he would stuck with twice per month instead one big update and have a public release a week after patron. It seem like there would be less incentive to leak early and it would hurt much less.



Don't know. When people grandstand on topic of piracy and pretend to not understand how it may be discoreging for people putting work into a product it's pissiming off to no end.



I'm usually 100% serious when I call myself Jesus. It's just a thing i do.



I don't thing so. That is not to say he isn't a good developer.



I thing taking it this personal and being as defensive as Selebus was about the game isn't the same as taking players feedback into account, not in the least. I'm glad he's distancing himself now, as I'm sure it was contributing heavily to his stress. I'm sure both patreon and discord are better in that regard.



Some of the reviews are talking about how writing is "pretentious" and the writer like "the sound of his voice", so to speak. Which is, actually, close to how I thought about the game in the beginning.
Hey, I'm here for smut, what's this existential angst about? Opening script editor, Edgar Poe...what? Gtfo, just let me choose a name and I'd be on my merry way. I skipped a lot in the beginning, before I developed genuine interest in the story. But if it doesn't click for you, it doesn't click for you.



There alredy is. MC get cocked by a giant sophisticated devine vibrator machine.



There is curious line in the game, how "dorms don't exist during night time", I assume because Sensei isn't around to visit them. You can say that other male characters exist only in other girls heads, until proven otherwise.



You're being too real, it's no fun.

I feel like it be more beneficial to Selebus if he would stuck with twice per month instead one big update and have a public release a week after patron. It seem like there would be less incentive to leak early and it would hurt much less.

I believe his model to be fine as is, which is basically twice a month with two weeks between patron and public. This gives patrons ample time to get the head start they paid to have, one week may not.

Don't know. When people grandstand on topic of piracy and pretend to not understand how it may be discoreging for people putting work into a product it's pissiming off to no end.

It still could have been put a bit more nicely, the "aww, what's that?" part, I mean.

I don't thing so. That is not to say he isn't a good developer.

I have to disagree on your disagreement, a good developer should always listen to their players. That is not to say do as they tell him, that just means actually paying attention to what they say and addressing any concerns, which Selebus does. Going too far and submitting to the will of the players to the point of doing things in the game as they want, to a large degree specifically, not the occasional player request, is actually a sign of a bad developer. As an example, Innoxia, developer of Lilith's Throne, has been guilty of going too far on listening to players lately, spending far too much time on player requests and not enough on what they want personally to be added or what they already have planned.

I thing taking it this personal and being as defensive as Selebus was about the game isn't the same as taking players feedback into account, not in the least. I'm glad he's distancing himself now, as I'm sure it was contributing heavily to his stress. I'm sure both patreon and discord are better in that regard.

That's not the player feedback I'm referring to, what I'm referring to is when he interacts on an in game issue. He's been extremely responsive to issues that might be bug related, which there have been a few, both with version bugs and save bugs, but at the same time, he's not doing the player base's every whim, either.

Some of the reviews are talking about how writing is "pretentious" and the writer like "the sound of his voice", so to speak. Which is, actually, close to how I thought about the game in the beginning.
Hey, I'm here for smut, what's this existential angst about? Opening script editor, Edgar Poe...what? Gtfo, just let me choose a name and I'd be on my merry way. I skipped a lot in the beginning, before I developed genuine interest in the story. But if it doesn't click for you, it doesn't click for you.

I mean, that's player Sensei in a nutshell. He's a pretentious, narcissistic, greedy asshole whole does whatever it takes to get what he wants. Of course the writing is a bit pretentious, it comes from player Sensei's point of view. He is both himself and the narrator in this story through his interactions with others and his inner thoughts respectively.

There is curious line in the game, how "dorms don't exist during night time", I assume because Sensei isn't around to visit them. You can say that other male characters exist only in other girls heads, until proven otherwise.

So Geoffrey would exist in a sense because Ayane said so, but not Yumi's father because, while she does mention him, she never mentions interacting during the events of the story? Just trying to get a sense of what you mean by only in their heads.

You're being too real, it's no fun.

I don't always interpret the tone of what is being said in text correctly, so I sometimes mistake serious for not serious and the reverse.

 

[HogRocket]

From name, this game need ntr to perfect!!!!

What this game need to ruin it is ntr.

 

[akselx]

It still could have been put a bit more nicely, the "aww, what's that?" part, I mean.

Maybe. I regret nothing, though.

I have to disagree on your disagreement, a good developer should always listen to their players. That is not to say do as they tell him, that just means actually paying attention to what they say and addressing any concerns, which Selebus does. Going too far and submitting to the will of the players to the point of doing things in the game as they want, to a large degree specifically, not the occasional player request, is actually a sign of a bad developer. As an example, Innoxia, developer of Lilith's Throne, has been guilty of going too far on listening to players lately, spending far too much time on player requests and not enough on what they want personally to be added or what they already have planned.


That's not the player feedback I'm referring to, what I'm referring to is when he interacts on an in game issue. He's been extremely responsive to issues that might be bug related, which there have been a few, both with version bugs and save bugs, but at the same time, he's not doing the player base's every whim, either.

That's not really what I'm talking about. Sticking with your vision, even when some people complain about it, addressing concerns, being uber responsive - that's all fine and good. I'm talking about how he gets all defensive and passive aggressive sometimes in his responses. I'm not criticizing it, just saying it's not good for stress reasons and I'm glad he's doing less of it now.

I mean, that's player Sensei in a nutshell. He's a pretentious, narcissistic, greedy asshole whole does whatever it takes to get what he wants. Of course the writing is a bit pretentious, it comes from player Sensei's point of view. He is both himself and the narrator in this story through his interactions with others and his inner thoughts respectively.

It doesn't look like narrator is always the person as Sensei. It's hard to distinguish, though.

So Geoffrey would exist in a sense because Ayane said so, but not Yumi's father because, while she does mention him, she never mentions interacting during the events of the story? Just trying to get a sense of what you mean by only in their heads.

It's like pre-installed knowledge. Just like with space war, girls don't question it, they just know about their dads, butlers and such, even when girls don't interact with them, because they (dads and butlers) don't exist. Maybe I'm wrong, we'll see.

 

[Deleted member 1697433]

Some of the reviews are talking about how writing is "pretentious" and the writer like "the sound of his voice", so to speak.

Hell yeah I like the sound of my voice. It bought me a fucking house.