Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

[El_Zane_123]

I do hope that, somewhere along the line, he eventually gets some sort of redemption arc. I love the game, I love the girls' stories but I kinda don't like playing as a piece of shit. I believe that among all his mental instability there is still some good and eventually you can fix your mistakes or something like that.

I think, ultimately, in the very long run, this will happen.
It is not that Newsei, the new Sensei (or very Oldsei, so to speak, unbeknowing to him) is an unempathic asshole.
The issue he has right now is that he does not feel that he belongs in this world, that it is his world, his story, his history.
And therefore he does what probably many in a very unique situation as his would do: treat it like pervert GTA.

We humans, aside of my firm belief that we do have morals for other than mere selfish reasons, act (mostly) responsible and considerate because of the consequences our actions would have otherwise. But if we think there are no consequences, that nothing is real and nothing will have lasting damage, then I am afraid most of us would succumb to our darker, more free and much, much less considerate fantasies that deep down we all have ("I wish I was more of an asshole but...").

Newsei is in this state of mind. He still treats it as some kind of game (ironic, isn't it?), as something without lasting consequences, so why would, should he care? It also is fundamentally a very interesting situation, as he is a New Sensei "reborn", yet hinted to be the very first Oldsei nonetheless. So he is in a very direct conflict with everything his actual self stands for, without even realizing it.

This realization will come though. And it will come through quite great tragedy during the sad arc. And we can at least make an educated guess that he will be able to fix some of the damage his previous, all to (in)human error caused.
The big question though, and the whole full circle of this game is if he can still save Maya, and if there even is a chance for that. That is the question I think no one aside Sel can answer as of now. (Though ffs I really hope so. She deserves so much after all the pain she already has endured during all those cycles...)

 

[niconob92]

I think, ultimately, in the very long run, this will happen.
It is not that Newsei, the new Sensei (or very Oldsei, so to speak, unbeknowing to him) is an unempathic asshole.
The issue he has right now is that he does not feel that he belongs in this world, that it is his world, his story, his history.
And therefore he does what probably many in a very unique situation as his would do: treat it like pervert GTA.

We humans, aside of my firm belief that we do have morals for other than mere selfish reasons, act (mostly) responsible and considerate because of the consequences our actions would have otherwise. But if we think there are no consequences, that nothing is real and nothing will have lasting damage, then I am afraid most of us would succumb to our darker, more free and much, much less considerate fantasies that deep down we all have ("I wish I was more of an asshole but...").

Newsei is in this state of mind. He still treats it as some kind of game (ironic, isn't it?), as something without lasting consequences, so why would, should he care? It also is fundamentally a very interesting situation, as he is a New Sensei "reborn", yet hinted to be the very first Oldsei nonetheless. So he is in a very direct conflict with everything his actual self stands for, without even realizing it.

This realization will come though. And it will come through quite great tragedy during the sad arc. And we can at least make an educated guess that he will be able to fix some of the damage his previous, all to (in)human error caused.
The big question though, and the whole full circle of this game is if he can still save Maya, and if there even is a chance for that. That is the question I think no one aside Sel can answer as of now. (Though ffs I really hope so. She deserves so much after all the pain she already has endured during all those cycles...)

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I believe eventually he'll come around. So far he doesn't really believe that particular world to be real so he doesn't hold anything back. He does show some sort of guilt from time to time as well.
And talking about newsei and oldsei, I'm barely past the first (if there are more) rewind so I'm not sure about what's to come. But my question is, why does the dream maya keep calling him sekai? Isn't that supposed to be the brother of the original sensei and ami's father?

 

[barglenarglezous]

I do hope that, somewhere along the line, he eventually gets some sort of redemption arc. I love the game, I love the girls' stories but I kinda don't like playing as a piece of shit. I believe that among all his mental instability there is still some good and eventually you can fix your mistakes or something like that.

I suspect it's going to get MUCH worse before we see a significant positive change.

 

[Dragon59]

I think, ultimately, in the very long run, this will happen.
It is not that Newsei, the new Sensei (or very Oldsei, so to speak, unbeknowing to him) is an unempathic asshole.
The issue he has right now is that he does not feel that he belongs in this world, that it is his world, his story, his history.
And therefore he does what probably many in a very unique situation as his would do: treat it like pervert GTA.

We humans, aside of my firm belief that we do have morals for other than mere selfish reasons, act (mostly) responsible and considerate because of the consequences our actions would have otherwise. But if we think there are no consequences, that nothing is real and nothing will have lasting damage, then I am afraid most of us would succumb to our darker, more free and much, much less considerate fantasies that deep down we all have ("I wish I was more of an asshole but...").

I'm reminded of the explanation Penn Jillette (and used by Rickie Gervais in After Life), when questioned on his atheism, the person saying that "without God, what's to stop you from raping and murdering all you want?" Penn said "I already rape and murder as much as I want: Zero."

Personally, I don't get much enjoyment from playing asshole MCs unless there is a chage over time. Then it becomes a form of Campbell's "monomyth."

Newsei is in this state of mind. He still treats it as some kind of game (ironic, isn't it?), as something without lasting consequences, so why would, should he care? It also is fundamentally a very interesting situation, as he is a New Sensei "reborn", yet hinted to be the very first Oldsei nonetheless. So he is in a very direct conflict with everything his actual self stands for, without even realizing it.

Very meta!
Based on the main events, I'm about one fifth of the way into Chapter 2 material (between Caterpillar and Let Me Die In Spring). I don't think I've seen enough of these hints to make an impact yet. He does think about asking those important questions of what he was like "before the break," but he never actually asks.

This realization will come though. And it will come through quite great tragedy during the sad arc. And we can at least make an educated guess that he will be able to fix some of the damage his previous, all to (in)human error caused.

Well, we're already seeing his humanity and compassion pushing through. Your explanation reminds me of eponymous character in the Thomas Covenant books. Plagued by leprosy, he finds himself healthy in an unknown world and considers it more of a dream and acts with abandon, raping a young woman. He only later realizes that this other world is real.

The big question though, and the whole full circle of this game is if he can still save Maya, and if there even is a chance for that. That is the question I think no one aside Sel can answer as of now. (Though ffs I really hope so. She deserves so much after all the pain she already has endured during all those cycles...)

Something in what you say supports the theory that it's still the same "soul" inside but just after a break. His current self enters the cycle right after a reset. It would make sense if he had the break during the reset process. Even though she seems to recognize that he is "new," she also says he's been doing this for a number of cycles already.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I believe eventually he'll come around. So far he doesn't really believe that particular world to be real so he doesn't hold anything back. He does show some sort of guilt from time to time as well.
And talking about newsei and oldsei, I'm barely past the first (if there are more) rewind so I'm not sure about what's to come. But my question is, why does the dream maya keep calling him sekai? Isn't that supposed to be the brother of the original sensei and ami's father?

I don't remember this. Based upon where you say you are in the game, I must have missed it. There is something that happens near the end of Chapter 1 that would be VERY interesting if related to what you mention.

I suspect it's going to get MUCH worse before we see a significant positive change.

I feel that I'm already starting to see significant positive change. I guess one could argue it's not significant yet, but it seems so to me.

 

[barglenarglezous]

I feel that I'm already starting to see significant positive change. I guess one could argue it's not significant yet, but it seems so to me.

He shows flashes of it, then goes and does something like what he did to Miku. He's still very much a terrible person, and never actually shows signs of remorse when he causes actual harm. Or, for that matter, his complete lack of remorse for what Ayane went through during this last reset.

He's very much in a battle between a force that actively wants to destroy the girls (and has said as much in some of his interior monologues) and a higher nature. Don't let the brief flashes fool you, he's still doing more harm than good on average.

 

[niconob92]

I don't remember this. Based upon where you say you are in the game, I must have missed it. There is something that happens near the end of Chapter 1 that would be VERY interesting if related to what you mention.

That must be because she never does it in english, but either japanese or hexa code. It's a pain but I translate the hexa code every time I see it, it's worth it

I suspect it's going to get MUCH worse before we see a significant positive change.

Yeah, probably. I don't mind that though, I just hope that at some point it gets a little better. I never liked pure evil or pure good characters, I prefer flawed ones in grey areas but so far I can't say that the MC fits there.

 

[barglenarglezous]

That must be because she never does it in english, but either japanese or hexa code. It's a pain but I translate the hexa code every time I see it, it's worth it

Can you give some examples where this happens? Is it Maya (in a real world scene), or the projection that looks like Maya (in happy scenes, which may or may not also be Maya, we don't know yet)?

 

[niconob92]

Can you give some examples where this happens? Is it Maya (in a real world scene), or the projection that looks like Maya (in happy scenes, which may or may not also be Maya, we don't know yet)?

In the 4th happy event you ask her to change your name to some random hexa code, but if translate it to normal letters it reads sekai. In that very same scene the angels things say "feed it to 望む (nozomu)" refering to, I believe, the happy scene maya. Nozomu being ami's mother. And in the sixth happy scene dream maya says "What is wrong, 世界(sekai) ?"
So as you can imagine, I'm incredibly confused by all this xD

 

[barglenarglezous]

In the 4th happy event you ask her to change your name to some random hexa code, but if translate it to normal letters it reads sekai. In that very same scene the angels things say "feed it to 望む (nozomu)" refering to, I believe, the happy scene maya. Nozomu being ami's mother. And in the sixth happy scene dream maya says "What is wrong, 世界(sekai) ?"
So as you can imagine, I'm incredibly confused by all this xD

Yeah, when Maya appears in a happy scene, it's not certain that it's ACTUALLY Maya, but rather something else wearing her face.

But with the most recent happy scene's implication that Ami's mother may have had an affair with Sensei, that creates a scenario where Sekai could well be both the name of Sensei and Ami's father....

But also -- Sekai means "world" in google translate, so it could also just be a term of endearment?

 

[niconob92]

But also -- Sekai means "world" in google translate, so it could also just be a term of endearment?

Could be, but I don't think that's it keeping in mind that it's also spelled like that in hexa code and what I just said about dream maya as well.

 

[Reality Mode]

I can't believe i got Bad Homie, I will now proceed to replay entire game for this betrayal to never happen.

orrrrr you can cheat, reverse to during the beach, and unset the chika event in the console ;P

 

[Dragon59]

That must be because she never does it in english, but either japanese or hexa code. It's a pain but I translate the hexa code every time I see it, it's worth it

Hmm.. I thought I was translating from the very beginning. I'll have to go back at some point.

 

[alex2011]

Also, I gotta say, for someone tots not being into "big" girls at all (I like petite a very lot), Futaba is actually great.
I was tots uninterested in her for a long time but she managed with her sweetness and her character writing for me to care for her just like the rest, and I hate how Sensei treats her.

But then again, this is true for a whole bunch of the girls (except for Kirin. Screw Kirin, literally and figuratively.)

I'm not into big girls and I also like Futaba. While she is too submissive toward certain people for her own good, she's a very kind a gentle girl and I like those types.

I do hope that, somewhere along the line, he eventually gets some sort of redemption arc. I love the game, I love the girls' stories but I kinda don't like playing as a piece of shit. I believe that among all his mental instability there is still some good and eventually you can fix your mistakes or something like that.

You're not supposed to like playing as him, actually, you're supposed to hate him. That said, I am seeing VERY minor signs of this redemption. Let's just hope the bad HAPPY things to come don't screw that redemption up.

I think, ultimately, in the very long run, this will happen.
It is not that Newsei, the new Sensei (or very Oldsei, so to speak, unbeknowing to him) is an unempathic asshole.
The issue he has right now is that he does not feel that he belongs in this world, that it is his world, his story, his history.
And therefore he does what probably many in a very unique situation as his would do: treat it like pervert GTA.

We humans, aside of my firm belief that we do have morals for other than mere selfish reasons, act (mostly) responsible and considerate because of the consequences our actions would have otherwise. But if we think there are no consequences, that nothing is real and nothing will have lasting damage, then I am afraid most of us would succumb to our darker, more free and much, much less considerate fantasies that deep down we all have ("I wish I was more of an asshole but...").

Newsei is in this state of mind. He still treats it as some kind of game (ironic, isn't it?), as something without lasting consequences, so why would, should he care? It also is fundamentally a very interesting situation, as he is a New Sensei "reborn", yet hinted to be the very first Oldsei nonetheless. So he is in a very direct conflict with everything his actual self stands for, without even realizing it.

This realization will come though. And it will come through quite great tragedy during the sad arc. And we can at least make an educated guess that he will be able to fix some of the damage his previous, all to (in)human error caused.
The big question though, and the whole full circle of this game is if he can still save Maya, and if there even is a chance for that. That is the question I think no one aside Sel can answer as of now. (Though ffs I really hope so. She deserves so much after all the pain she already has endured during all those cycles...)

I don't even think we're dealing with the same Sensei the girls came to know before the story. Yes, the same person, but not the same mentally speaking.

I suspect it's going to get MUCH worse before we see a significant positive change.

Definitely, that's how Denpa works typically and even Selebus has said as much.

He shows flashes of it, then goes and does something like what he did to Miku. He's still very much a terrible person, and never actually shows signs of remorse when he causes actual harm. Or, for that matter, his complete lack of remorse for what Ayane went through during this last reset.

He's very much in a battle between a force that actively wants to destroy the girls (and has said as much in some of his interior monologues) and a higher nature. Don't let the brief flashes fool you, he's still doing more harm than good on average.

I still haven't forgiven him for the Miku thing and I may not ever do so.

That must be because she never does it in english, but either japanese or hexa code. It's a pain but I translate the hexa code every time I see it, it's worth it


Yeah, probably. I don't mind that though, I just hope that at some point it gets a little better. I never liked pure evil or pure good characters, I prefer flawed ones in grey areas but so far I can't say that the MC fits there.

I wouldn't call player Sensei pure evil at this point, just an asshole with almost no filter for his asshole behavior.

orrrrr you can cheat, reverse to during the beach, and unset the chika event in the console ;P

Believe it or not, that's actually A LOT more tedious than just going back through the event the normal way. You have to know, or find, the flag set by that event and any other events affected by it, which there are some, or you could severely screw up the game.

You'd be better served cheating in game if you're going to cheat, but then you suffer whatever consequences Selebus decides to place into the game for any save marked as a cheater save.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Does anyone know if there's an optimal scene replay order? I don't want to replay through the stat-grind or make any different choices, I just want to replay the scenes in an actual order and scrutinize for lore bits I may have forgotten in the gaps between updates.

 

[alex2011]

Does anyone know if there's an optimal scene replay order? I don't want to replay through the stat-grind or make any different choices, I just want to replay the scenes in an actual order and scrutinize for lore bits I may have forgotten in the gaps between updates.

Not really, the order in which scenes play is entirely dependent on when you meet the unlock requirements, so it is entirely possible to see events out of the listed order at points because they don't require the previous event. For example, you could see one event in the main category and then the next one is two events below it on that list because you met the requirements for the event two below before the next event after the one you saw.

As far as replay as in going into the tracker and watching already unlocked events, they are pretty much presented in the order they should be viewed going from frst to last downward, but you would only really need to watch events that actually contain important puzzle information like the Trinity events.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Not really, the order in which scenes play is entirely dependent on when you meet the unlock requirements, so it is entirely possible to see events out of the listed order at points because they don't require the previous event. For example, you could see one event in the main category and then the next one is two events below it on that list because you met the requirements for the event two below before the next event after the one you saw.

As far as replay as in going into the tracker and watching already unlocked events, they are pretty much presented in the order they should be viewed going from frst to last downward, but you would only really need to watch events that actually contain important puzzle information like the Trinity events.

Yeah, mostly hoping someone had a guide for "these happy events happen somewhere in this range, these main girl events happen after X but before Y. Within each category, it's obvious, but when trying to reassemble the various categories together into a narrative. It rarely actually matters, I know, but just in case it does even once...

 

[PrimeGuy]

In the 4th happy event you ask her to change your name to some random hexa code, but if translate it to normal letters it reads sekai. In that very same scene the angels things say "feed it to 望む (nozomu)" refering to, I believe, the happy scene maya. Nozomu being ami's mother. And in the sixth happy scene dream maya says "What is wrong, 世界(sekai) ?"
So as you can imagine, I'm incredibly confused by all this xD

Based on the grave, I believe Nozumu is Ami's father.

 

[alex2011]

Yeah, mostly hoping someone had a guide for "these happy events happen somewhere in this range, these main girl events happen after X but before Y. Within each category, it's obvious, but when trying to reassemble the various categories together into a narrative. It rarely actually matters, I know, but just in case it does even once...

I don't think we even have enough information for a narrative yet, we'll get there, though. There are a lot of holes to fill yet.

 

[niconob92]

Based on the grave, I believe Nozumu is Ami's father.

The grave has both names on it, how do you know which is the father and which is the mother? I mean nozomu does sound a lot more like a male name and sekai a female name but given how the MC is called sekai in the dreams I thought sekai was the father.

 

[Dragon59]

I was reminded of something I really appreciate in LiL.

We were talking about how strange it is when an early repeatable scene with an LI remains unchanged though the relationship has progressed far beyond that. The example is the LI being shy the first time you see them in the shower. Every time you see them in the shower, they will continue to be just as shy as the first time.

I just want to say that I appreciate that Selebus has allowed us access to all the sexual behaviors whether we're in the LI's space or inviting them to our own. Headpats being the exception, of course.