Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

[Smarmint]

I really like Lessons in Love, a lot. It is one of the best written games here, with a story that keeps you guessing, and is truly unique among games here. Selebus has raised the quality of game development to a very high level with this game. It is not simply a lewd game with a pointless and cliched story, it is something totally one of a kind and special, which is why there are so many devoted fans, myself included.

However, am I the only one that is starting to find that the gameplay needed to get to each new scene is rather repetitive? Every time there in an update, I need to:

1) Click on each of the 32 main and side character's pictures and write down how many incomplete events are for each character this update.

2) For each character that has incomplete events, I have to click "Go Somewhere" and either go to their hangout, or their room on the dorm, usually both

3) or click "Call Someone" and try to call them, usually they don't pick up of give the same canned response

4) or "Invite over" and see if you can invite them over

5) Try again it all again either Saturday, Sunday, or both since some events only happen on the weekends.

6) Half the time none of this will work to trigger their next event, so I have to go look at the wiki online and try to figure out how to get the events I can't figure out how to get for each character, one after another, until I finally see all the available events.

To me, it seems quite repetitive. I love the events themselves. For example, the latest contest storyline was amazing, the best yet. But why does the normal gameplay have to be the same, day after day? Selebus indicates that there are many, many, more updates, which is wonderful. The longer the better. But, is the only way to play this game to click "Go Somewhere" and repetitively click through all the options, hundreds and thousands of times, over and over again, to see the next scenes?

I am not a game developer, but surely there is a better way.

Selebus, can you consider streamlining the repetitive tasks needed for each scene so it is not so repetitive. Why does the player need to go to every girl's hangout, and every girl's room, and see the same placeholder scene over and over and over again in order to try to find what trigger gets to the next scene?

What if we could just get a little button or icon somewhere on the screen when you are at the right moment for a scene? For example, let's say that in the story you want a scene with Futaba on Saturday night. Whenever Saturday night occurs, just have an icon on the screen with a little Futaba image or text, so we could just click on it? You can have a different icon for each scene that is ready, based on the current events.

Maybe there is an even better way to do it than my suggestion, but while I absolutely love the content of the story, I don't love having to click on each girl's dorm door or visit the maid cafe hundreds of times, over an over again, just to see the same canned placeholder scene, which while certainly cute, does get repetitive the 100th time i've seen it.

To me it least, it seems like there must be a better way to do this.

Please don't take this as a knock on Lessons in Love, which I think is truly one of the greatest games here. In 10 years, I will still be thinking about it after 99.5% of the other games I have played are long forgotten.

I just think that the day to day search for the next scene for each character could be improved with some tweaking of the interface. Keeping it in the game is best, so the user isn't taken out of the game experience. I would dislike a separate menu, for example, where you just clicked to jump to the next scene, wherever you were in the game. This would take the immersion away from the player. But some kind of in game guidance for the player, maybe even an non-clickable icon just to know what characters have scenes available at that game time (Wednesday Afternoon, for example), and the player could still visit their hangout or dorm room to try to trigger it, but it would be more guided than the current approach, where I am often lost as to what I need to do to proceed, and end up having to perform a lot of tasks over and over to try to figure it out.

 

[alex2011]

I really like Lessons in Love, a lot. It is one of the best written games here, with a story that keeps you guessing, and is truly unique among games here. Selebus has raised the quality of game development to a very high level with this game. It is not simply a lewd game with a pointless and cliched story, it is something totally one of a kind and special, which is why there are so many devoted fans, myself included.

However, am I the only one that is starting to find that the gameplay needed to get to each new scene is rather repetitive? Every time there in an update, I need to:

1) Click on each of the 32 main and side character's pictures and write down how many incomplete events are for each character this update.

2) For each character that has incomplete events, I have to click "Go Somewhere" and either go to their hangout, or their room on the dorm, usually both

3) or click "Call Someone" and try to call them, usually they don't pick up of give the same canned response

4) or "Invite over" and see if you can invite them over

5) Try again it all again either Saturday, Sunday, or both since some events only happen on the weekends.

6) Half the time none of this will work to trigger their next event, so I have to go look at the wiki online and try to figure out how to get the events I can't figure out how to get for each character, one after another, until I finally see all the available events.

To me, it seems quite repetitive. I love the events themselves. For example, the latest contest storyline was amazing, the best yet. But why does the normal gameplay have to be the same, day after day? Selebus indicates that there are many, many, more updates, which is wonderful. The longer the better. But, is the only way to play this game to click "Go Somewhere" and repetitively click through all the options, hundreds and thousands of times, over and over again, to see the next scenes?

I am not a game developer, but surely there is a better way.

Selebus, can you consider streamlining the repetitive tasks needed for each scene so it is not so repetitive. Why does the player need to go to every girl's hangout, and every girl's room, and see the same placeholder scene over and over and over again in order to try to find what trigger gets to the next scene?

What if we could just get a little button or icon somewhere on the screen when you are at the right moment for a scene? For example, let's say that in the story you want a scene with Futaba on Saturday night. Whenever Saturday night occurs, just have an icon on the screen with a little Futaba image or text, so we could just click on it? You can have a different icon for each scene that is ready, based on the current events.

Maybe there is an even better way to do it than my suggestion, but while I absolutely love the content of the story, I don't love having to click on each girl's dorm door or visit the maid cafe hundreds of times, over an over again, just to see the same canned placeholder scene, which while certainly cute, does get repetitive the 100th time i've seen it.

To me it least, it seems like there must be a better way to do this.

Please don't take this as a knock on Lessons in Love, which I think is truly one of the greatest games here. In 10 years, I will still be thinking about it after 99.5% of the other games I have played are long forgotten.

I just think that the day to day search for the next scene for each character could be improved with some tweaking of the interface. Keeping it in the game is best, so the user isn't taken out of the game experience. I would dislike a separate menu, for example, where you just clicked to jump to the next scene, wherever you were in the game. This would take the immersion away from the player. But some kind of in game guidance for the player, maybe even an non-clickable icon just to know what characters have scenes available at that game time (Wednesday Afternoon, for example), and the player could still visit their hangout or dorm room to try to trigger it, but it would be more guided than the current approach, where I am often lost as to what I need to do to proceed, and end up having to perform a lot of tasks over and over to try to figure it out.

The repetition doesn't really bother me as I got used to it with other VNs of similar type, meaning with more than just a story that occasionally brought up choices.

 

[hcguy]

1) Click on each of the 32 main and side character's pictures and write down how many incomplete events are for each character this update.

You know that you can click the "Progress" button at the bottom of the screen and see exactly who has outstanding events, right? You don't need to go into each girl's page.

 

[barglenarglezous]

You know that you can click the "Progress" button at the bottom of the screen and see exactly who has outstanding events, right? You don't need to go into each girl's page.

I only found this a few updates ago. It could benefit from something that makes it stand out better.

 

[Smarmint]

I only found this a few updates ago. It could benefit from something that makes it stand out better.

What!?!?!

I never noticed that. Thanks!

I still think a clickable link or just an icon, whenever an event for a particular girl is available at a certain time of day, would make it a lot less repetitive, but that does help so I don't have to keep going back and forth with the character screen.

Thanks for the info!

 

[cckerberos]

Sel has said that he has plans to update the game's UI at some point, but I would be surprised if there was anything on the level of what you've suggested. Partially because he seems resistant to making events "too easy" to find, and partly because he's a completely self-taught programmer so likes to keep things simple under the hood.

I haven't given a ton of thought to how I would add icons like you suggest (which would be awesome, I agree) but, given the way things are organized in the code, I believe that it would be very time-consuming (though not really difficult) to retroactively add as a feature.

I'm obviously biased, but I think that my mod is probably about as close as is possible to what you're asking for without putting in a lot of work (though the icon thing is something I might tinker with the next time I'm bored).

 

[PrimeGuy]

I really like Lessons in Love, a lot. It is one of the best written games here, with a story that keeps you guessing, and is truly unique among games here. Selebus has raised the quality of game development to a very high level with this game. It is not simply a lewd game with a pointless and cliched story, it is something totally one of a kind and special, which is why there are so many devoted fans, myself included.

However, am I the only one that is starting to find that the gameplay needed to get to each new scene is rather repetitive? Every time there in an update, I need to:

1) Click on each of the 32 main and side character's pictures and write down how many incomplete events are for each character this update.

2) For each character that has incomplete events, I have to click "Go Somewhere" and either go to their hangout, or their room on the dorm, usually both

3) or click "Call Someone" and try to call them, usually they don't pick up of give the same canned response

4) or "Invite over" and see if you can invite them over

5) Try again it all again either Saturday, Sunday, or both since some events only happen on the weekends.

6) Half the time none of this will work to trigger their next event, so I have to go look at the wiki online and try to figure out how to get the events I can't figure out how to get for each character, one after another, until I finally see all the available events.

To me, it seems quite repetitive. I love the events themselves. For example, the latest contest storyline was amazing, the best yet. But why does the normal gameplay have to be the same, day after day? Selebus indicates that there are many, many, more updates, which is wonderful. The longer the better. But, is the only way to play this game to click "Go Somewhere" and repetitively click through all the options, hundreds and thousands of times, over and over again, to see the next scenes?

I am not a game developer, but surely there is a better way.

Selebus, can you consider streamlining the repetitive tasks needed for each scene so it is not so repetitive. Why does the player need to go to every girl's hangout, and every girl's room, and see the same placeholder scene over and over and over again in order to try to find what trigger gets to the next scene?

What if we could just get a little button or icon somewhere on the screen when you are at the right moment for a scene? For example, let's say that in the story you want a scene with Futaba on Saturday night. Whenever Saturday night occurs, just have an icon on the screen with a little Futaba image or text, so we could just click on it? You can have a different icon for each scene that is ready, based on the current events.

Maybe there is an even better way to do it than my suggestion, but while I absolutely love the content of the story, I don't love having to click on each girl's dorm door or visit the maid cafe hundreds of times, over an over again, just to see the same canned placeholder scene, which while certainly cute, does get repetitive the 100th time i've seen it.

To me it least, it seems like there must be a better way to do this.

Please don't take this as a knock on Lessons in Love, which I think is truly one of the greatest games here. In 10 years, I will still be thinking about it after 99.5% of the other games I have played are long forgotten.

I just think that the day to day search for the next scene for each character could be improved with some tweaking of the interface. Keeping it in the game is best, so the user isn't taken out of the game experience. I would dislike a separate menu, for example, where you just clicked to jump to the next scene, wherever you were in the game. This would take the immersion away from the player. But some kind of in game guidance for the player, maybe even an non-clickable icon just to know what characters have scenes available at that game time (Wednesday Afternoon, for example), and the player could still visit their hangout or dorm room to try to trigger it, but it would be more guided than the current approach, where I am often lost as to what I need to do to proceed, and end up having to perform a lot of tasks over and over to try to figure it out.

I think part of the reason things are done this way, is so that you can unexpectedly stumble on the "Happy" events. Getting those when you don't expect them increases their impact.

Like someone else said, I'm not currently bothered by 'the dance'. However, I can understand how others might be frustrated by it. It's hard in a sandbox game, like this, with the amount of content available, to avoid the options eventually feeling repetitive. Your suggestion about the icons would absolutely help with that, but, at the expense of some of the impact of the "Happy" events.

 

[barglenarglezous]

What!?!?!

I never noticed that. Thanks!

I still think a clickable link or just an icon, whenever an event for a particular girl is available at a certain time of day, would make it a lot less repetitive, but that does help so I don't have to keep going back and forth with the character screen.

Thanks for the info!

I should also point out that the latest update contains a puzzle that actively punishes you if you enter the answer without first viewing the scene that contains the answers, just in case someone decides to come here for the solution before even looking for the solution in game.

This is not a game that's going to spoon feed you.

 

[Smarmint]

I'm obviously biased, but I think that my mod is probably about as close as is possible to what you're asking for without putting in a lot of work (though the icon thing is something I might tinker with the next time I'm bored).

I love your mod. It helps a lot with not knowing what to do next. I just wanted to throw out the icon idea for Selebus. It would reduce some of the repetition. I don't know how hard it would be, but it seems like it would be possible, just by checking for triggers for the current day, and displaying the corresponding icon on the side of the screen somewhere.

PS: Where can we get the latest version of your mod. It isn't listed in the OP.

 

[cckerberos]

I love your mod. It helps a lot with not knowing what to do next. I just wanted to throw out the icon idea for Selebus. It would reduce some of the repetition. I don't know how hard it would be, but it seems like it would be possible, just by checking for triggers for the current day, and displaying the corresponding icon on the side of the screen somewhere.

PS: Where can we get the latest version of your mod. It isn't listed in the OP.

Yeah, it definitely would be possible, and I guess you would be to ignore main and happy events, which would cut the work in half. It wouldn't be pretty, but you could do it by just having a list of hundreds of trigger checks.

PS: It's linked in the OP, just under "Guide" since I attach it to the same post I used to use for PDFs.

 

[akselx]

However, am I the only one that is starting to find that the gameplay needed to get to each new scene is rather repetitive? Every time there in an update, I need to:

1) Click on each of the 32 main and side character's pictures and write down how many incomplete events are for each character this update.
...

I don't, for the life of me, understand why you need so many steps, so needlessly complicated. Writing stuff down...What for? You have a progress button, use it. Meanwhile, characters have only 2 places you can visit + phone call and maybe invite, if implemented. If character specific events don't trigger, just wait for main story ones to pass first.

 

[Lolicon Kami]

1) Click on each of the 32 main and side character's pictures and write down how many incomplete events are for each character this update.

At least for this step, you can skip it by clicking the "progress" button at the bottom of the screen. Although it does not specify how many incomplete events there are, it lets you know that there are events available for which character, or main events available, or happy events available

 

[Dragon59]

I really like Lessons in Love, a lot. It is one of the best written games here, with a story that keeps you guessing, and is truly unique among games here. Selebus has raised the quality of game development to a very high level with this game. It is not simply a lewd game with a pointless and cliched story, it is something totally one of a kind and special, which is why there are so many devoted fans, myself included.

However, am I the only one that is starting to find that the gameplay needed to get to each new scene is rather repetitive? Every time there in an update, I need to:

There are a number of AVN developers who have worked to come up with a workable balance of hand holding and being thrown into the deep end. Some, like Xavster put little icons on the ship map to show which rooms contain repeatable or new scenes. Others, like NLT and many others will leave the player to explore, but provide a hint mechanic to give some small nudge. It's a difficult balance to achieve. Some do it well, some don't.

The repetition doesn't really bother me as I got used to it with other VNs of similar type, meaning with more than just a story that occasionally brought up choices.

Definitely, there are number of games with constant grind to wait for an opportunity with one of maybe four LIs. Here, at least, we're kept relatively busy with options. Yes, I tend to click on a link and then back up if it isn't a new scene, but as you said, it's less of a pain than other games.

Sel has said that he has plans to update the game's UI at some point, but I would be surprised if there was anything on the level of what you've suggested. Partially because he seems resistant to making events "too easy" to find, and partly because he's a completely self-taught programmer so likes to keep things simple under the hood.

I haven't given a ton of thought to how I would add icons like you suggest (which would be awesome, I agree) but, given the way things are organized in the code, I believe that it would be very time-consuming (though not really difficult) to retroactively add as a feature.

I'm obviously biased, but I think that my mod is probably about as close as is possible to what you're asking for without putting in a lot of work (though the icon thing is something I might tinker with the next time I'm bored).

So far, I've been going with the WTs for guidance rather than a mod.

Of course, the mod I'd like to have is an "auto-pat" mod. One click to pat 25(?) times to get to next text box, then one click to resume. I've been doing mouse button spamming, so it's not that much of a burden.

I think part of the reason things are done this way, is so that you can unexpectedly stumble on the "Happy" events. Getting those when you don't expect them increases their impact.

Like someone else said, I'm not currently bothered by 'the dance'. However, I can understand how others might be frustrated by it. It's hard in a sandbox game, like this, with the amount of content available, to avoid the options eventually feeling repetitive. Your suggestion about the icons would absolutely help with that, but, at the expense of some of the impact of the "Happy" events.

And the Happy events are supposed to be relative jump-scares.

 

[alex2011]

I think part of the reason things are done this way, is so that you can unexpectedly stumble on the "Happy" events. Getting those when you don't expect them increases their impact.

Like someone else said, I'm not currently bothered by 'the dance'. However, I can understand how others might be frustrated by it. It's hard in a sandbox game, like this, with the amount of content available, to avoid the options eventually feeling repetitive. Your suggestion about the icons would absolutely help with that, but, at the expense of some of the impact of the "Happy" events.

That may or may not be part of the intent, but that certainly is true about the impact. Horror elements aren't effective when they are expected and while a player can expect them in the game as a whole, being unable to predict exactly when they will fire is what adds that extra impact.

I should also point out that the latest update contains a puzzle that actively punishes you if you enter the answer without first viewing the scene that contains the answers, just in case someone decides to come here for the solution before even looking for the solution in game.

This is not a game that's going to spoon feed you.

This may also be reaction to the previous puzzle's reaction, people complaining about getting stuck in said puzzle because they weren't paying attention or were actively skipping text. Honestly, I approve of this methodology as I am getting a little annoyed constantly seeing people complain even though I haven't and won't make a big deal out of it.

Selebus has been known to punish players and the puzzle in "There Is Nothing" was directly stated by him to be reaction to similar. It seems the first time didn't work, so he added a new puzzle as a potential second attempt and even put in a safeguard against the skippers and the people who don't read carefully enough, though that is just speculation.

I don't, for the life of me, understand why you need so many steps, so needlessly complicated. Writing stuff down...What for? You have a progress button, use it. Meanwhile, characters have only 2 places you can visit + phone call and maybe invite, if implemented. If character specific events don't trigger, just wait for main story ones to pass first.

Writing is good for the puzzles that may get put in several updates after the answers to said puzzle.

 

[SpaceLobster]

I've not been here for a while and wow, this game got a lot bigger. Hah, it'll take me some time to read the forums and play through all the updates

 

[barglenarglezous]

This may also be reaction to the previous puzzle's reaction, people complaining about getting stuck in said puzzle because they weren't paying attention or were actively skipping text. Honestly, I approve of this methodology as I am getting a little annoyed constantly seeing people complain even though I haven't and won't make a big deal out of it.

Selebus has been known to punish players and the puzzle in "There Is Nothing" was directly stated by him to be reaction to similar. It seems the first time didn't work, so he added a new puzzle as a potential second attempt and even put in a safeguard against the skippers and the people who don't read carefully enough, though that is just speculation.

Someone on the discord suggesting just making the puzzles procedurally generated, which would make going onto a website for the solution itself impossible. It's also a lot more complicated to code, so I doubt he'll do it, but there's definitely an audience for these types of puzzles.

 

[Antosha]

I'm reminded of the explanation Penn Jillette (and used by Rickie Gervais in After Life), when questioned on his atheism, the person saying that "without God, what's to stop you from raping and murdering all you want?" Penn said "I already rape and murder as much as I want: Zero."

Personally, I don't get much enjoyment from playing asshole MCs unless there is a chage over time. Then it becomes a form of Campbell's "monomyth."

Very meta!
Based on the main events, I'm about one fifth of the way into Chapter 2 material (between Caterpillar and Let Me Die In Spring). I don't think I've seen enough of these hints to make an impact yet. He does think about asking those important questions of what he was like "before the break," but he never actually asks.

Well, we're already seeing his humanity and compassion pushing through. Your explanation reminds me of eponymous character in the Thomas Covenant books. Plagued by leprosy, he finds himself healthy in an unknown world and considers it more of a dream and acts with abandon, raping a young woman. He only later realizes that this other world is real.

Something in what you say supports the theory that it's still the same "soul" inside but just after a break. His current self enters the cycle right after a reset. It would make sense if he had the break during the reset process. Even though she seems to recognize that he is "new," she also says he's been doing this for a number of cycles already.

I don't remember this. Based upon where you say you are in the game, I must have missed it. There is something that happens near the end of Chapter 1 that would be VERY interesting if related to what you mention.

I feel that I'm already starting to see significant positive change. I guess one could argue it's not significant yet, but it seems so to me.

Thank you for reminding me of the Thomas Covenant books! I was trying to think who Sensei reminded me of — and you nailed it on the head. He’s wounded, deeply f%{%ed up — and he disbelieves in his current reality. But he’s finding himself caring about the others in spite of himself, which tells me he’s redeemable. Whether he is redeemed (and what he has to go through before he gets there, if he is), Sel alone knows. But it’s a compelling ride, that’s for sure. Whether I can make it through Sensei crapping on each of the members of the cast before he finally does… I don’t know. The

Spoiler: Coming attractions (?)

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The point of the monomyth is that the hero — and therefore the reader/viewer/player — is supposed to go through a symbolic (or real) death to who they used to be in order to become who they are capable of becoming. I’ll have to keep holding on to potential!Sensei to keep on slogging through the destruction he’s leaving in his wake. Probably foolish of me.

 

[Cerpin]

Thank you for reminding me of the Thomas Covenant books! I was trying to think who Sensei reminded me of — and you nailed it on the head. He’s wounded, deeply f%{%ed up — and he disbelieves in his current reality. But he’s finding himself caring about the others in spite of himself, which tells me he’s redeemable. Whether he is redeemed (and what he has to go through before he gets there, if he is), Sel alone knows. But it’s a compelling ride, that’s for sure. Whether I can make it through Sensei crapping on each of the members of the cast before he finally does… I don’t know. The

Spoiler: Coming attractions (?)

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

The point of the monomyth is that the hero — and therefore the reader/viewer/player — is supposed to go through a symbolic (or real) death to who they used to be in order to become who they are capable of becoming. I’ll have to keep holding on to potential!Sensei to keep on slogging through the destruction he’s leaving in his wake. Probably foolish of me.

Maya is going to get totally Elena'd.

 

[Deleted member 3313072]

I'm definitely missing something if I can't get Ami's 6th event to fire, No One Can See Us, and her morning flu event just fired. I borked up something somewhere. Her affection is in the 20s already.

 

[Kitsune241]

I'm definitely missing something if I can't get Ami's 6th event to fire, No One Can See Us, and her morning flu event just fired. I borked up something somewhere. Her affection is in the 20s already.

Events, especially the early events like that one, might not activate in the order it shows in the list. All the main girl's events are split between two main locations, their hangout spot (for Ami it's her bedroom) and their dorm room, so it's possible to trigger a latter event in her hangout spot before an earlier one in her dorm for example (assuming one doesn't rely on the other).
Visit Ami in her dorm on the weekend, if that doesn't do anything you can upload a save here for someone to take a look at.