Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.42.0] [Selebus]

[ratmanirl]

I've mentioned and showed far more than just "what happened".

Kirin definitely didn't do what she did because she's dumb. Kirin isn't dumb or stupid and she understands the consequences of her actions. She was literally blackmailing a friend, successfully. The whole point is them all knowing the consequences. It's also not like she needs a phd to know doing bad things to people will make them not like you. She's fully aware she's a bad person doing bad things:

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Btw, Kirin should be 15 and almost 16 since Christmas is 2 months before her bday. Rin is likely the only 14 year old due to skipping ahead. Funny enough, Kirin should be older than Nodoka.

As for Nodoka, why does it matter if Yumi was changing? If you think Nodoka did this just so Yumi would get sexual with Sensei, you may have missed the part where Nodoka cucked her:

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And they are even further apart from fucking now, than they were. Yumi more or less became a cockblock recently. Revenge also doesn't need to be the sole purpose to still be a major reason why Nodoka did this to her. It's not like Nodoka has done this to anyone who hasn't traumatized and threatened to kill someone close to Nodoka.

There's also no reason for Nodoka to feel empathy or sympathy for Yumi of all people, but Yumi knows better now, and if she'll hurt anyone, it's Nodoka, hence why she's the "Matador" and the event this happened in, was Nodoka's 'Matador' Chapter 3 Event. Nodoka made herself Yumi's target.

Frankly, considering Nodoka could fail to blackmail Yumi, and still end up assaulted if not killed, what Nodoka did was more stupid than what Kirin did. Nodoka was being more stupid than Kirin, when it comes to blackmailing at least. Nodoka's struggle to understand others is way more of a hindrance, than Kirin just being insecure and horny, and petty in Ayane's case. Your point about stupidity being more forgivable should apply more to Nodoka than Kirin.

I do agree with your assessment of the book scene, but Futaba has literally been traumatized by Yumi and is terrified of becoming a target again:

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She's not able to think rationally about the book, which is why Nodoka tried to keep her from finding out about it.

Judging her during the book scene to attempt to discredit her prior, is in poor taste, and doesn't work if one knows the context.

Nodoka's greatest priority also isn't the story, it's making everyone understand (this world), otherwise, her existence means nothing:

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As she mentioned in her 'Amoeba (Incontrovertible Peculiarity)' Chapter 3 Event.

"This story" is just a popular work of hers, that she felt inspired to write. It didn't even seem intended to be read by Futaba, or the rest of the class.

She's also literally put her writing profession on temporary hiatus right now:

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Nodoka has more important things to focus on.

By intentionality, I mean that she doesn't understand how bad the outcomes she wants will affect other people because she's using herself as the judgement. If she was in Ayane's shoes, she would think getting taken advantage of by a cute girl would be great. And again, dumb 15 year old does dumb things, really not that deep.

On the Yumi thing, I really don't get it. Have you never seen any romcom ever? Like isn't "making the heroine jealous to get her to realize her feelings" not a super common trope? Cuz that's literally what Nodoka is doing. You can see in the conversation with Chika a few events earlier, and in the event itself, that Yumi doesn't even realize herself how much she cares about Sensei. She's shocked when Nodoka suggests that her giving Sensei a BJ would hurt her more, and comes to the realization that it actually would hurt more when she chooses to degrade herself over watching the blowjob. This is the purpose of that event - Nodoka is trying to get Yumi to stop coping when it comes to Sensei and admit her feelings, with the revenge thing as a side bonus.

She's not stupid - as Futaba said, she observes the class so much that she understands every character. She knew the potential of getting hurt (obviously, and hinted by her smiling after getting beaten up), but she chose to continue because the reward of progressing her story was more important than her own safety. Again, she fully understands the consequences of her actions, and makes the choices accordingly.

Nodoka's greatest priority also isn't the story, it's making everyone understand (this world), otherwise, her existence means nothing

...Yes, and how does she make people understand? By writing stories...

 

[manjak8]

Is this a joke? Please tell me this is just a really bad joke i dont get.

it is

 

[ratmanirl]

Yeah? Then how come i remember very clearly doesnt even understand why futaba is so pissed when she finds out about the book. Look at her expression over the whole event, that is not the facial expression of someone who does realize she hurt a friend. That is not the facial expression who is sorry she did hurt someone she supposedly cares about. I mean for fucks sake, her justification for not asking any of the girls if they would like to be a character in her book is because she knows they would say no and then she wouldnt have a book. And i guess because that is just up to her to decide. No one should decide for nodoka but nodoka herself. She does not even once say in anyway that she is sorry she did hurt futaba's feeling. No, instead she wants futaba to understand her. And is confused about what the actual probelm is suppose to be. I dont see much wholesome in that behaviour.

I mean, the point is her feelings are irrational. Nodoka knows that a lot of her fears are unfounded, like how the classmates will go target her. The only real argument Futaba makes is that the existence of the story makes her feel bad, and that friends shouldn't make each other feel bad. So really the question becomes "do my feelings of discomfort matter less to you than you writing this story," and well, the answer is yes.

No one puts their friends above everything else, there are always things people will value more than friendship. Perhaps your friend dislikes the fact that things they don't care about matter more to you than them, but that's kinda their problem. Friendship isn't a contract with written rules, after all.

 

[kirsek]

all i wanna know is.. its the game dead or something?

 

[Riolol]

all i wanna know is.. its the game dead or something?

Not dead, blacklisted. Last update was on the 1st.

 

[Xiondingens]

I mean, the point is her feelings are irrational. Nodoka knows that a lot of her fears are unfounded, like how the classmates will go target her. The only real argument Futaba makes is that the existence of the story makes her feel bad, and that friends shouldn't make each other feel bad. So really the question becomes "do my feelings of discomfort matter less to you than you writing this story," and well, the answer is yes.

No one puts their friends above everything else, there are always things people will value more than friendship. Perhaps your friend dislikes the fact that things they don't care about matter more to you than them, but that's kinda their problem. Friendship isn't a contract with written rules, after all.

You know you have some compelling arguments. I think i will answer to that with the reaction nodoka showed right after futuba left her room crying. You know, here supposed friend, that she did hurt with her actions.
She isnt sad, she doesnt feel sorry or regret, i actually believe she doesnt feel anything right this moment. Tbh the more i look into this i wonder if she is suffering from some sort of disorder and she doesnt feel anything at all and just fakes it everytime she does show emotions.

 

[DeSkel15]

By intentionality, I mean that she doesn't understand how bad the outcomes she wants will affect other people because she's using herself as the judgement. If she was in Ayane's shoes, she would think getting taken advantage of by a cute girl would be great. And again, dumb 15 year old does dumb things, really not that deep.

On the Yumi thing, I really don't get it. Have you never seen any romcom ever? Like isn't "making the heroine jealous to get her to realize her feelings" not a super common trope? Cuz that's literally what Nodoka is doing. You can see in the conversation with Chika a few events earlier, and in the event itself, that Yumi doesn't even realize herself how much she cares about Sensei. She's shocked when Nodoka suggests that her giving Sensei a BJ would hurt her more, and comes to the realization that it actually would hurt more when she chooses to degrade herself over watching the blowjob. This is the purpose of that event - Nodoka is trying to get Yumi to stop coping when it comes to Sensei and admit her feelings, with the revenge thing as a side bonus.

She's not stupid - as Futaba said, she observes the class so much that she understands every character. She knew the potential of getting hurt (obviously, and hinted by her smiling after getting beaten up), but she chose to continue because the reward of progressing her story was more important than her own safety. Again, she fully understands the consequences of her actions, and makes the choices accordingly.

...Yes, and how does she make people understand? By writing stories...

Kirin is not using herself as the judgement. She's simply a bad person that gets off doing bad things to others. Really not that complicated.

This isn't actually a Romcom... I feel like the horror and rape tags would have made that obvious. Yumi and Sensei were not made closer, nor intended to be made closer due to this. That is just your headcanon.

Nodoka understanding the consequences is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with what I said, which was this:

Frankly, considering Nodoka could fail to blackmail Yumi, and still end up assaulted if not killed, what Nodoka did was more stupid than what Kirin did. Nodoka was being more stupid than Kirin, when it comes to blackmailing at least. Nodoka's struggle to understand others is way more of a hindrance, than Kirin just being insecure and horny, and petty in Ayane's case. Your point about stupidity being more forgivable should apply more to Nodoka than Kirin.

You just completely ignored this, and shoved "understanding consequences" in for whatever reason.

Also, Nodoka can do more than write stories... you do realize she can talk right? These stories she writes are for work, and most of the class doesn't even know about it. Only Futaba has actually seemed to read it and Nodoka tried to prevent that.

 

[somepersonoutofnowhere]

What did you notice? That he's got a cake on him?

First off he's got a purple cap, second off he's only been seen around the young, and lastly, he's been spotted inside of a place that serves food, I've got a theory on who it is

Spoiler: Purple 2

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[kirsek]

Not dead, blacklisted. Last update was on the 1st.

so what do i do? is the game being updated? if so.. whare?

 

[ratmanirl]

You know you have some compelling arguments. I think i will answer to that with the reaction nodoka showed right after futuba left her room crying. You know, here supposed friend, that she did hurt with her actions. View attachment 3430113
She isnt sad, she doesnt feel sorry or regret, i actually believe she doesnt feel anything right this moment. Tbh the more i look into this i wonder if she is suffering from some sort of disorder and she doesnt feel anything at all and just fakes it everytime she does show emotions.

Well I think Nodoka knew that Futaba would be upset to some extent, after all we all want to believe that our friends really only care about us, and will be willing to stop things we think are stupid for us.

To help illustrate probably how Nodoka thinks about it, if your friend published a story about your life and insecurities, but no one could really trace it to you, why would you give a shit? Some people might feel mad like how it invaded their privacy or whatever, but if nothing will actually happen to you and it won't affect you in anyway, why are you even feeling mad? It's irrational. And people hate the idea that their feelings might be wrong.

So either Nodoka is confused why Futaba is upset to that extent, or shocked at how difficult it is to convince someone that their feelings might be irrational. Who knows.

 

[Riolol]

so what do i do? is the game being updated? if so.. whare?

The game is updated on the first of every month, you can get it here when it's posted. It just won't show up on the "latest updates" tab or be promoted by the site.

 

[kirsek]

The game is updated on the first of every month, you can get it here when it's posted. It just won't show up on the "latest updates" tab or be promoted by the site.

ohh i get it now thank you very much

 

[ratmanirl]

Kirin is not using herself as the judgement. She's simply a bad person that gets off doing bad things to others. Really not that complicated.

This isn't actually a Romcom... I feel like the horror and rape tags would have made that obvious. Yumi and Sensei were not made closer, nor intended to be made closer due to this. That is just your headcanon.

Nodoka understanding the consequences is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with what I said, which was this:
You just completely ignored this, and shoved "understanding consequences" in for whatever reason.

Also, Nodoka can do more than write stories... you do realize she can talk right? These stories she writes are for work, and most of the class doesn't even know about it. Only Futaba has actually seemed to read it and Nodoka tried to prevent that.

Your quote implies that Nodoka risking her life on something she cares about is stupid. Who are you to make that judgement for her, to claim that what she cares about isn't work risking her life over? So is everyone who does anything risky that you don't think is worth it stupid? Just a really weird line of argument that borderlines on projection rather than an objective evaluation of the circumstances and internationalities behind the characters.

On the Yumi scene, it's not headcanon when Nodoka literally says:

Yumi: Why... Why that?
Nodoka: Because I think that would hurt you more.
Yumi: No! Why would that hurt me?
Yumi: Why would something like that hurt me!? Why do you think that!?

The point of the scene, other than revenge fetish porn material, is this confrontation with Yumi and her own feelings. Up until this point, she has convinced herself that she doesn't have any feelings towards Sensei, to the point where she genuinely believes it. Nodoka forces Yumi to make a choice - choose yourself, or Sensei. And it is incredible character development for Yumi to choose to hurt herself over watching Sensei be degraded when her key character trait is running away to not get hurt. There's no excuses here, and Yumi has to face the fact that she holds some sort of feelings towards Sensei. It's not about Sensei and Yumi getting closer, it's about the development of Yumi's character.

On Nodoka's writing, it's crazy how you downplay it's importance to Nodoka when it's literally her raison d'etre.

>I write because I have to do.
>Because I am gifted.
>It is not my fault others don't understand this gift.
>It just means I have to make them.

"She can just talk" and "It's just her job" lmfao. This character "Nodoka" you made up sounds nothing like the one in the game I just played.

 

[Xiondingens]

Well I think Nodoka knew that Futaba would be upset to some extent, after all we all want to believe that our friends really only care about us, and will be willing to stop things we think are stupid for us.

To help illustrate probably how Nodoka thinks about it, if your friend published a story about your life and insecurities, but no one could really trace it to you, why would you give a shit? Some people might feel mad like how it invaded their privacy or whatever, but if nothing will actually happen to you and it won't affect you in anyway, why are you even feeling mad? It's irrational. And people hate the idea that their feelings might be wrong.

So either Nodoka is confused why Futaba is upset to that extent, or shocked at how difficult it is to convince someone that their feelings might be irrational. Who knows.

The way you keep talking about the friends of people you dont even know to prove your point is quite irritating tbh. So you would really keep calling someone friend who does believe when you share something with them in confidence that it stops been a secret? Or is that just something you yourself think is okay, in that case i really feel bad for everyone who would trust you with anything. Because someone who would betray my trust in such a way, would have stopped been a friend. I mean alone that you even dare to say no one could really trace them has to be a joke. She did such a bad job of hidding who she is writting about that people were thinking sensei, rin and otaha were cosplaying. And only reason it hasnt come out is because the plot demands it.

And there is absolutely nothing irrational about been mad about it when someone does betray our trust. Because it doesnt matter if or if not that has any bad consequenses. The act of betrayal by itself alone is reason enough to be mad. And everyone who even tries to excuse such an act as okay, just completely lacks any empathy for other people.

Lacks any empathy just like nodoka.

 

[ratmanirl]

The way you keep talking about the friends of people you dont even know to prove your point is quite irritating tbh. So you would really keep calling someone friend who does believe when you share something with them in confidence that it stops been a secret? Or is that just something you yourself think is okay, in that case i really feel bad for everyone who would trust you with anything. Because someone who would betray my trust in such a way, would have stopped been a friend. I mean alone that you even dare to say no one could really trace them has to be a joke. She did such a bad job of hidding who she is writting about that people were thinking sensei, rin and otaha were cosplaying. And only reason it hasnt come out is because the plot demands it.

And there is absolutely nothing irrational about been mad about it when someone does betray our trust. Because it doesnt matter if or if not that has any bad consequenses. The act of betrayal by itself alone is reason enough to be mad. And everyone who even tries to excuse such an act as okay, just completely lacks any empathy for other people.

Lacks any empathy just like nodoka.

Well, yes. The story is kinda shit in conveying it but we're working with the assumption that nothing will happen. Ultimately, I do think that it's a stronger argument that Futaba could have made but it's clear Sel in this argument between Futaba and Nodoka was more concerned with the concept of feelings and friendship rather than practical considerations, which is why I'm talking under the assumption that in the future no one is gonna like expose the girls or some shit.

So, working with that assumption, if no one could trace your "secrets" to you why would you even care. You're not affected in any way other than "feeling bad" and as Nodoka pointed out, you can just not read the book if it makes you feel bad. "Betraying your trust" is a formless emotion with no actual consequence, in which case we return to the original discussion on whether or not you should put the "feelings" of your friend above everything else, which I concluded no, that's unrealistic.

What Futaba is upset about is that Nodoka places her book above her feelings, and Futaba can't accept that Nodoka values her feelings less than her book. But people place their families, their selves, etc. above the feeling of friends all the time, and that's more acceptable? In the end, you either respect what your friends think are more important than you, or you break off the friendship because you can't create a compromise.

 

[hcguy]

Nodoka is a fucking sociopath. She's the one character in all of LiL that if she was written out of the story I wouldn't miss her at all.

 

[Noob Gamer 24 2402]

So I finished all games that LiL inspired with its writing style. Sensei Overnight and Dissonance(it looks like this one was inspired by SO in particular) being in the big league and games like Lost in You, Another World and some others showing good progress as well. I just finished Dissonance 4 hours ago, that game surpassed SO in many ways, but also lags behind it in some others. Getting up to this games last respective parts made me think this:

How many creators Sel will inspire by the end of his story? Will LiL become a new standart for writing VN, in the scenario that it becomes even more popular? Will the "all people here are 18+" kind of bullshit finally gave way to a new, truly creative writing not chained to censorship and social norms? I already expressed my hopes that LiL will become a phenomena, but a serious blunder or controversy coming from Sel may snatch defeat from the jaws of victory of a new writing style. Making this game an exception for writing VN, not a general rule as some(meaning me) would hope so. Some serious food for thought when it comes to the influence and impact LiL may have under right circumstances.

 

[GSwole]

So I finished all games that LiL inspired with its writing style. Sensei Overnight and Dissonance(it looks like this one was inspired by SO in particular) being in the big league and games like Lost in You, Another World and some others showing good progress as well. I just finished Dissonance 4 hours ago, that game surpassed SO in many ways, but also lags behind it in some others. Getting up to this games last respective parts made me think this:

How many creators Sel will inspire by the end of his story? Will LiL become a new standart for writing VN, in the scenario that it becomes even more popular? Will the "all people here are 18+" kind of bullshit finally gave way to a new, truly creative writing not chained to censorship and social norms? I already expressed my hopes that LiL will become a phenomena, but a serious blunder or controversy coming from Sel may snatch defeat from the jaws of victory of a new writing style. Making this game an exception for writing VN, not a general rule as some(meaning me) would hope so. Some serious food for thought when it comes to the influence and impact LiL may have under right circumstances.

over the past couple years Lil has inspired other clone/copycat titles but it is something different in the western vn space when the most ppl have generally played in this space is a few fap bait games with minimal plot. if ppl went and played more traditional vns they'd see Lil has little over them other than going against the societal norm with character ages. the only thing holding Lil back from garnering more widespread support is the age stuff and the puzzles that "check" to make sure the player is reading. when there's a couple million words and countless red herrings in terms of possible answers then the avg brainlet will just google answers anyway or open the console.

 

[Dc345]

Since the May break is coming up the characters that I'm pretty certain are getting events in the 0.41 update in July are Uta, Io, Futaba, Wakana, Imani and Yasu. We may get some main events and another character to fill out the update since Sel has been doing 7-8 characters per update for the start of chapter 4. But at that point everybody will have had at least one event and we should be going back to the updates with less characters and more events per character if my predictions are true.

 

[DeSkel15]

Your quote implies that Nodoka risking her life on something she cares about is stupid. Who are you to make that judgement for her, to claim that what she cares about isn't work risking her life over? So is everyone who does anything risky that you don't think is worth it stupid? Just a really weird line of argument that borderlines on projection rather than an objective evaluation of the circumstances and internationalities behind the characters.

On the Yumi scene, it's not headcanon when Nodoka literally says:

Yumi: Why... Why that?
Nodoka: Because I think that would hurt you more.
Yumi: No! Why would that hurt me?
Yumi: Why would something like that hurt me!? Why do you think that!?

The point of the scene, other than revenge fetish porn material, is this confrontation with Yumi and her own feelings. Up until this point, she has convinced herself that she doesn't have any feelings towards Sensei, to the point where she genuinely believes it. Nodoka forces Yumi to make a choice - choose yourself, or Sensei. And it is incredible character development for Yumi to choose to hurt herself over watching Sensei be degraded when her key character trait is running away to not get hurt. There's no excuses here, and Yumi has to face the fact that she holds some sort of feelings towards Sensei. It's not about Sensei and Yumi getting closer, it's about the development of Yumi's character.

On Nodoka's writing, it's crazy how you downplay it's importance to Nodoka when it's literally her raison d'etre.

>I write because I have to do.
>Because I am gifted.
>It is not my fault others don't understand this gift.
>It just means I have to make them.

"She can just talk" and "It's just her job" lmfao. This character "Nodoka" you made up sounds nothing like the one in the game I just played.

Once again you ignore the fail to blackmail part. Shocking.

At least you're admitting that revenge plays a part now, but you seem to completely ignore that Yumi just storms off if she hasn't already faced her feelings for him back in her 'Abyss' Chapter 2 Event:

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You're forgetting something that already happened a Chapter prior.

If anything, Nodoka changed Yumi's feelings for Sensei in a negative way. Sensei disappointed Yumi by just standing there and letting this happen to her. She makes it rather clear later:

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And if she's actually blackmailed, she adds:

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Nevertheless, if your point is simply that Nodoka changed Yumi, then yeah, I know. I said it in my first reply to you:

When it comes to Nodoka, she definitely did it for revenge, but for the progression of everyone is likely another reason. This includes Yumi, who has changed since then. (Even without actually blackmailing Yumi, Yumi gets in trouble for trying to kill her afterwards, which leads to Yumi changing, and it was likely part of her plan from the get go.)

I'm starting to wonder if you've even played the same game, and of course you ignored the whole point again. Nodoka has been writing and publishing since she was around 10:

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Years before this game starts. Years before she could write this story.

Her gift and this world are two different things that she wants others to understand. You seem to be conflating the two because you want it to be the same thing. Or need it to be.

I get that your entire made up version of Nodoka can't survive if she's doing anything more than writing this story, but your version of Nodoka isn't how the game portrays her.

Nodoka writes all sorts of things in all sorts of genres:

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Not to mention, she's literally sidelined her writing profession at the moment to focus on other things.