Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.42.0] [Selebus]

[skwada]

"This underage girl is okay and I'll jerk off to her but this other one is more underage so I am going to make a fit and preach about morality, even tho I knew it was coming from miles away and technically we already saw it before with a boy but since it's a boy but not a girl I guess it's slightly better in my invisible morality scale"

1) There's a big difference between 16yo girls and 8yo kids

Both are underage yes but while it's not socially acceptable to be attracted to 16yo girls, there is at least some biological basis for it as they are "of age" in the physical sense (and although this is subjective and case-by-case, most on a mental sense too) even if they're not "of age" in the legal sense. That's why you see people getting addicted to watching teen girls dancing on tiktok and shit these days and why even though more than half the games on this site feature teenagers that could easily be argued to be 1-3 years underage legally speaking, you don't see people screaming "ree this is pedophillia!!!"

On the other hand, prepubescent children are not of age in any sense and it is normal, not hypocritical, to find that sort of shit disgusting even if you're fine with teenage girls

2) Yeah we saw child Akira being abused but there's two key differences between that situation and the "wizards": Akira being abused was a one-off flash-back / backstory and he was a victim rather than a perpetrator.
- Reading something from the perspective of a rape victim is real different than reading from the perspective of a predator who's actively chasing down kids
- Furthermore, Akira playing the pedo is likely not going to be a one-off thing where people find it disgusting but will sit through it and continue playing the game, thinking "well that was fucked but I'll power through it" - it'll likely be a major plot point and take up a decent chunk of word count

Basically to summarize, morality is complicated as fuck. Your arguments of "this underage shit is ok so why not that underage shit?" "this rape is ok so why not that rape?" are ungenerous interpretations of what is probably the stance that the overwhelming majority of players would hold in regards to this situation

Btw personally, depending on how major of a plot point it becomes and how it's portrayed, I may end up dropping the game too. I see this as being very similar to Made in Abyss where there's a lot of content in there that the majority of ppl (myself included) just find fucking gross but they'll kind of ignore it and still watch as long as it doesn't become too big of a part of the show. I remember reading about a bunch of ppl who said they dropped s2 of Made in Abyss because it was starting to become excessive at times, and I bet you it'll be similar with this game if it pushes it too far, although of course the line of "too far" is subjective - each person has their own degree of tolerance to this sort of thing

 

[Muk_king]

I think there is meant to be a contrast between the way Wizards like Tsukasa/Chinami or past Maya/Noriko are treated vs how Io or Uta were treated before the time loop.

Especially Io (what even was Stomachache). It looks like Selebus is offering different situations and contexts to see what makes us more okay or less okay with things.

For instance, it is clear that Tsukasa not at all a standard person. Some kind of super prodigy. But with extreme emotional insecurity, as might be found at point of development.

The fact LiL doesn't shy away from a nuanced exploration like this makes it unique.

 

[Deathfollows]

They both died before the fuckery started.

The fuckery loops from mid/late summer to early January. If the phone call Maki got is to be taken at face value, he died in June. There is no June within the time loop -- meaning he was already dead when the game began.

Yeah this was my meaning. though it could be seen that ch3 is in the spring time but would be after both of those incidents happened.

 

[Deathfollows]

If you’re asking about location-wise, yes Sekai’s death took place in Kumon-mi. Akira visited where the accident happened with Niki’s assistance.

more of a place and time than just a place. i suppose i should have been more specific. according to maki, makotos dad died several months previous and would have happened before the loops.

 

[Deathfollows]

I think it has been established that Sel does this on purpose to stir up the community and provoke comments, just like a controversial TikTok influencer would.
That's very Nodoka of him.

Spoiler: Speaking of tier lists, I never shared mine (it's fluctuating from update to update)

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

this is very true. sel constantly riles up the discord with random shit.

 

[Deathfollows]

I would also like to share my tier list! I do not have access to the tier list website link so just visualize it in your head as you read this:

================================
S++: Ami

B: Sana, Yumi, Touka, Yasu
C: Ayane, Tsuneyo, Niki
D: Rin

Z (don't care about these): everyone else
================================

- Ami is #1 because her events are the most interesting imo and she's cute and I like yandere/insane

- Sana: adult form is cute as fuck and I like shy/quiet
- Yumi: has nice boobs and kind of reminds me of a pitiable dog, i always remember her "stuck in the vortex" event even tho i last read it years ago
- Touka: I don't know why, probably just 'cause she has nice boobs. honestly i should downgrade her to C tier for that
- Yasu: has an endearing innocence and her "evil smile" is nice =)

- Ayana: I like how much she loves Akira, and she shows her love differently than the other girls who are "in love" with him
- Tsuneyo: often has exciting events and probably has nice boobs. And her humor level is off the charts!
- Niki: her backstory with Akira is great

D Tier
- Rin: tbh I greatly prefer her ch1 form over her current form, it was good enough that it deserves to be in B tier, and I will place her current form in D tier just because of how good her ch1 form was

Z tier
Yea I don't really care about the other girls tbh. In fact, I find most of the other girls kind of annoying at times (especially Kaori, Maya, Makoto, Imani, Molly (sometimes), Futaba, Haruka, Maki, Sara, Yuki, Nao, Chika, Miku, etc. - I realize I've just listed like 1/5th of the cast xD). Once in a while there'll be an event for them that I like but I'm generally indifferent to them

Ayana? who's that? lol kidding Ayane is my top girl. for the same reasons you said but also because she is strong, intelligent, and loyal to a fault. (you dont see her strength until after she meets Daisy though).

also if you want the tier list just google Lessons in love tier maker. there are several.

 

[Deathfollows]

So what happend to the wiki? Used to be up to date like right away and had very detailed descriptions too. They haven't even put Ami's cut hair pic up yet and that's been for a few updates now.

the guy that works on it has been dragging ass. though it has been updated the main events havent been.

 

[Deathfollows]

Oh, and since we're sharing our tiers, here's mine, which I've been refining for some time. The girls are in no particular order within the tiers, FWIW.

Spoiler: The Best and The Rest, According to Moi

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

this is a good tier list. fk nodoka

 

[Moonflare]

Made another tierlist, but this one's a question: which one has the most interesting mother/daughter dynamic?

Spoiler: mother/daughter tierlist

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

There are a couple of dead people, but well, sometimes you have a dynamic with the memory of the dead person (Chika has inherited her responsabilities for instance).

Also added Wires as a placeholder for Tsuneyo's mom cause, well, single "parent"/"god" (?). And some tinfoil hats in the end.

So, which household has the most interesting dynamic between mothers and daughters?

Edit: refined the purpose of the question.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

Made another tierlist, but this one's a question: which one is the best mother/daughter(s) household?

Spoiler: mother/daughter tierlist

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Also added Wires as a placeholder for Tsuneyo's mom cause, well, why not. And some tinfoil hats in the end. I find this interesting because it's easier to choose a single character, but harder to evaluate groupings against eachother. So, which one is the best?

..........................

 

[GSwole]

the guy that works on it has been dragging ass. though it has been updated the main events havent been.

theres several working together on it as a group but its a passion project for them and the last main person to head the efforts got kicked by selebussy for banning a "troll" account editing the wiki that turned out to be sel pulling a prank and is now done with the community. so if you hate the speed/consistency of wiki updates then blame the big ego manchild himself

 

[Bingoogus]

Good morning/afternoon/evening you extremely weird people, my people, i am here to inform you all that i just learned the DJ Deadmau5 is supposed to be pronounced 'deadmouse'. One would think the Helmet design would give this right away but no, no, one would also think that my having grown up right in the middle the age bracket most associated with the leetspeak era would also make it painfully easy for me to recognise this most obvious of things... but no, no... worry not, for you too can achieve such feats if you dump half your points in maxing out 'autism' instead of something actually useful.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[skwada]

Good morning/afternoon/evening you extremely weird people, my people, i am here to inform you all that i just learned the DJ Deadmau5 is supposed to be pronounced 'deadmouse'. One would think the Helmet design would give this right away but no, no, one would also think that my having grown up right in the middle the age bracket most associated with the leetspeak era would also make it painfully easy for me to recognise this most obvious of things... but no, no... worry not, for you too can achieve such feats if you dump half your points in maxing out 'autism' instead of something actually useful.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

ngl i never realized this xD i always read it as "dead mau five"

 

[Bingoogus]

ngl i never realized this xD i always read it as "dead mau five"

Yes, that is how i read it too.

 

[barglenarglezous]

ngl i never realized this xD i always read it as "dead mau five"

...and now I am hearing "Dead Mau Number 5" in my brain, to the tune of Lou Bega's Mambo #5.

I fucking hate you all.

 

[GSwole]

did no one get that from the skrillex vs mozart erb?

 

[DeSkel15]

Made another tierlist, but this one's a question: which one has the most interesting mother/daughter dynamic?

Spoiler: mother/daughter tierlist

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

There are a couple of dead people, but well, sometimes you have a dynamic with the memory of the dead person (Chika has inherited her responsabilities for instance).

Also added Wires as a placeholder for Tsuneyo's mom cause, well, single "parent"/"god" (?). And some tinfoil hats in the end.

So, which household has the most interesting dynamic between mothers and daughters?

Edit: refined the purpose of the question.

Just to put this out there: It seems like Molly has been heavily influenced by her Mother. Whether it be by her suicide or her interest in Fae. It doesn't come up much, but her Mother is still playing a part in her life. It's likely what's led to Molly being Molly.

Similar could be said with Ayane and her Mother, although her mother seemed to just straight up abandon her, and Ayane can't help but still write her letters that she has nowhere to send. It's influenced her entire outlook on being a mother and she probably wouldn't be nearly as attached to Sensei and Ami if her mother never just up and left.

Then there's Yasu and her Mother...well, Yasu doesn't seem to think that she's even had a mother, and what we've seen of Yasu's past shows her mother seeing her more as a monster and a burden. Yasu being attached to some god makes sense, and Touka's somewhat become a pseudo mother for her (and Sensei).

Sara's mother seemed to either abandon her or let Sara's father beat Sara, and let's not even get started on Io's despicable pedophile of a mother. Etc.

Overall: I definitely think the Sekai/Ami Mother Daughter Dynamic is the most interesting. Seems to be at the core of this game, and, even after her death, Sekai still seems to be fucking people up including her own daughter. If there was a multiple choice for my reason why, I'd probably choose:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Quite a few mothers have played significant roles in their daughter's lives, though. For better or worse.

 

[Moonflare]

Similar could be said with Ayane and her Mother, although her mother seemed to just straight up abandon her, and Ayane can't help but still write her letters that she has nowhere to send. It's influenced her entire outlook on being a mother and she probably wouldn't be nearly as attached to Sensei and Ami if her mother never just up and left.

Since you brought it up, what do you make of this:

Spoiler: That funny feeling

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Because it's very likely this message is from Himawari, and yet she writes in red ink. Then, as he leaves the bus, he passes by a girl waiting with a briefcase. The briefcase part made me think it was Ayane's mom at first, and he finds her familiar because, well, Ayane would look a lot like her (that's part of my theory on why her father resents her).

However, it could just be that she's familiar because she's Himawari herself and Akira can't quite remember her. Then we arrive at "children you can never get rid of", well, that fits with Ayane's mother again. But also Himawari, since she's literally a child that resists against even the basic laws of time.

Well, that he uses "girl" instead of woman probably means it's not Ayane's mom, but I don't know. What do you think?

 

[Deathfollows]

theres several working together on it as a group but its a passion project for them and the last main person to head the efforts got kicked by selebussy for banning a "troll" account editing the wiki that turned out to be sel pulling a prank and is now done with the community. so if you hate the speed/consistency of wiki updates then blame the big ego manchild himself

eh, it doesnt matter much. anytime i would need something from the wiki the people in the discord are happy to help anyway. and sel may be a man child but it doesnt really affect me as long as he continues making this story. all artists/writers have their flaws and quirks.

 

[DeSkel15]

Since you brought it up, what do you make of this:

Spoiler: That funny feeling

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Because it's very likely this message is from Himawari, and yet she writes in red ink. Then, as he leaves the bus, he passes by a girl waiting with a briefcase. The briefcase part made me think it was Ayane's mom at first, and he finds her familiar because, well, Ayane would look a lot like her (that's part of my theory on why her father resents her).

However, it could just be that she's familiar because she's Himawari herself and Akira can't quite remember her. Then we arrive at "children you can never get rid of", well, that fits with Ayane's mother again. But also Himawari, since she's literally a child that resists against even the basic laws of time.

Well, that he uses "girl" instead of woman probably means it's not Ayane's mom, but I don't know. What do you think?

I'm definitely leaning towards it just being Himawari/The Shapeshifter.

I'm not entirely sure why Ayane's mother would be near Sensei's house, so it seems a little random for her to be there, especially in a Niki Event that seems more about Ami, Sekai, and Sensei in particular.

It seems like Himawari, and those like her, still need to eat, and probably aren't as supernatural as they seem. Himawari in particular has been shown wanting a cafeteria:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Her having a briefcase wouldn't be all that surprising. She seems to need to move around a lot for her job, and she's someone that Sensei isn't supposed to remember, yet he tends to usually find her familiar nevertheless.

Not to mention that if Himawari is his and Ayane's kid from some alternate or future timeline, that he's not supposed to know about, then she's not exactly easy to get rid of. The red ink could also be a hint at blood relation.