Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.9.9] [Innoxia]

[NoStepOnSnek]

Hi I need help, I got shattered Enchantment, How do I cure it? Im sorry I asked again if someone Q&A.

Wear less enchanted stuff. Or disable the whole thing in the options.

 

[Gagarisimus]

Did you give them too much enchanted gear and tanked their stats by exceeding their enchantment capacity?

I should check cause I don't know if I did. they do have 3 custom enchants that have 3 buffs each. so 3x9, also the maid set and two feathers as weapons. And I guess the collar as well.
I should also mention that they are a Lvl 14-15 with all of those enchant talents that let you equip lots.

 

[Gagarisimus]

I just tested it real quickly; from a single fight, yes. I imported my first character, which like you, was focused on Arcane/Aura. She had 100 pre-import, but the collar dropped it to 47. Aura was cut in half (it was around 600 pre-import). She was is level 23, so my questions; what was the Arcane and Aura pre-import and level?

pre-import they had 31 arcane and 209 aura and are Lvl 14. as a slave, though they have zero with 5 aura even with a plus 3 buff to arcane from an item.

 

[BNT544]

Without any economic incentive there is literally no point at all in having hundreds of different ways for the player to make ridiculous quantities of cash. There is no driving force there.

A game gives uses incentives to drive a player to using different mechanics within the game for their survival. The threat is what drives the player.

Without this you just have a playground that ultimately stops being a game when the player has experienced the different features because the only driving force they have is "use the feature". There's nothing motivating them to use it anymore therefore they simply won't.

What you end up with when you build a sandbox without incentives and driving forces is a whole bunch of different game mechanics with absolutely nothing that links them all together. You must link things together or really you haven't got a game.

If the thing that links the features together is the story itself then players will ultimately find the game has no replay value after they've already done the story because there will be no motivation applied to the player to use anything.

Games are ultimately about setting goals, giving a driving force that challenges the player, and asking the player to overcome the challenge. Improving on the challenge is the very point of games and what gives them replayability.

If it's a problem for people just give them "sandbox ultra easy testing mode" where there's no driving force and indicate it's not the way the game is supposed to be played.

The reason people keep coming back to DoL over and over and over again is because while the sex content is enjoyable it actually provides a challenging game that players WANT to overcome.

The screen moves right is Mario's incentive. The blocks fall faster is Tetris' incentive. There's a monster RUN is Amnesia's incentive. Overcome the incentive.

Don't give players an incentive that challenges them and they'll find the game utterly boring once they've already seen the features because there's no actual "game", nothing to overcome and no challenge asking them to use the features.

If you make Tetris but the blocks can be frozen and the game never speeds up you'll find not many people find much replayability in it after they've made a few lines poof once or twice. Vrelnir understands this. I wish other developers and more of the audience would understand it too.

Cool, I'll bite. I see what your saying about game design and incentives, but I think your confusing incentives with punishments when you could split them into two: rewards and punishments.

Punishments are for players who don't do the thing, motivating them to find ways to avoid threats as you said. The problem is if they don't see the rewards in doing it, they're just as likely to quit. Dark Souls has a lot more quitters than its fans would like to admit.
Rewards are what players get when they do the thing, usually appropriate to the thing done. Not all people are motivated by the same rewards, tho. I get how games can serve under-served niches, but some people don't appreciate how great games can somehow give different rewards to different people.

Honestly, I'm more into Simulations than Sandboxs, where the goals are entirely made by the player, but I admit it requires understanding the game to enjoy properly. As much it's hard to do right, I'd be more impressed if the game turned more to the former than the latter.

 

[mordredw]

pre-import they had 31 arcane and 209 aura and are Lvl 14. as a slave, though they have zero with 5 aura even with a plus 3 buff to arcane from an item.

I couldn't get the exact numbers, so Arcane and Aura were 1 below (assuming you mean that your character had 34 Arcane pre-import), but it still happen. I created a character with student (or whatever the job that gives +10 Arcane), gave her a necklace with +3 Arcane. The stats dropped to yours. The collar that replaces it, should only take it down to 18 Arcane. I am assuming this is a bug, unless somebody else that is better at this type of thing can test it better. I would also like to note, mine has the well rested buff, so a +15 Aura bonus. It is still at 5 Aura. That makes me believe its a bug.

This is why I cheat, to avoid problems , so if you want an arcane slave companion, I suggest you import one that has maxed Arcane, and the Dark Siren's Cloak (if you want to use the slave collar, the necklace isn't an option. The slave collar, if removed, does nothing, so its up to you or make the necklace enslave them)

 

[SordidDreams]

How do you gain XP in the Transformer, Test Subject, Kink Advocate, Kink Curious, Exhibitionist, Bimbo, Cross Dressing, and Size Queen fetishes? No matter what I do, those XP bars won't budge. Are they currently bugged or am I just doing something wrong (or rather not doing something right)?

 

[Gagarisimus]

I couldn't get the exact numbers, so Arcane and Aura were 1 below (assuming you mean that your character had 34 Arcane pre-import), but it still happen. I created a character with student (or whatever the job that gives +10 Arcane), gave her a necklace with +3 Arcane. The stats dropped to yours. The collar that replaces it, should only take it down to 18 Arcane. I am assuming this is a bug, unless somebody else that is better at this type of thing can test it better. I would also like to note, mine has the well rested buff, so a +15 Aura bonus. It is still at 5 Aura. That makes me believe its a bug.

I just figured out my problem while counting and checking perks. the main char perks are different than an npc's.
I didn't use the add +1 or so arcane points command and just did it via perk tree.

Now that there is no way to add points to companions I guess I'll need to start the slave training from scratch with a new slave.

 

[Damoriva]

If an NPC goes to the 'resisting' state is there any way to get them back to an accepting state? I was having sex with someone and they were into it, already having had one orgasm, and then all of a sudden they started resisting while I was doing something they enjoyed.

 

[Deleted member 2166807]

Cool, I'll bite. I see what your saying about game design and incentives, but I think your confusing incentives with punishments when you could split them into two: rewards and punishments.

Punishments are for players who don't do the thing, motivating them to find ways to avoid threats as you said. The problem is if they don't see the rewards in doing it, they're just as likely to quit. Dark Souls has a lot more quitters than its fans would like to admit.
Rewards are what players get when they do the thing, usually appropriate to the thing done. Not all people are motivated by the same rewards, tho. I get how games can serve under-served niches, but some people don't appreciate how great games can somehow give different rewards to different people.

It is perfectly acceptable to have quitters if you actually create something that properly appeals to an audience.
Right now the main quest is certainly appealing and the rest of the mechanics are a mish mash of unconnected things with no reward or punishment.

Honestly, I'm more into Simulations than Sandboxs, where the goals are entirely made by the player, but I admit it requires understanding the game to enjoy properly. As much it's hard to do right, I'd be more impressed if the game turned more to the former than the latter.

Those are interchangeable words. They mean the same thing. What you're saying is that you like sandboxes with no actual challenges at all, just a general experience that you win as long as you don't do anything dumb dumb because literally nothing threatens you. We typically call these themeparks, where all the rides in the themeparks are just sitting there waiting for the player to come along and experience them if they want to. This is the way of Fallout and Skyrim. These however have CONTENT that drives the player, an utterly endless amount of quests to explore and perform.

The problem with themeparks is that once you've experienced the quests all you're really doing every time you play is redoing quests you've done time and time again.

Sandboxes in comparison to themeparks are versatile things, the player experience will be different every time because there is plenty that is entirely out of the player's control and the player must make decisions that he may not want to make but is forced to make them because of their difficult situation (economic or otherwise). A player may not want to whore their pure character out performing blowjobs in alleyways just to pay rent, they may not have intended to, but the harsh conditions of reality have created a scenario that forces the player to do it. This is a sandbox experience, you do what you have to do to survive in whatever conditions are given to you. These conditions will differ hugely from play to play to play and the re-play value goes through the roof. In the non sexgame world this is the Mount and Blade approach to gameplay. And this is how Degrees of Lewdity does it.

Lilith has quests, but it also has the groundwork for an excellent sandbox. The point I am making is that Lilith should be both. The story content will become something players that have experienced it chew through in a single play every single time an update is released and then they are left waiting for the next update, they don't play it in between because they don't want to, there's no game to play as far as they're concerned, they've done everything it has to offer.

Make the world both a sandbox and a story quest experience or nobody has any reason to play if they've done the story quest.

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

It is perfectly acceptable to have quitters if you actually create something that properly appeals to an audience.
Right now the main quest is certainly appealing and the rest of the mechanics are a mish mash of unconnected things with no reward or punishment.

By that same measure, it is perfectly acceptable for one of those quitters to be you. LT clearly wants to go the direction of one of those mentioned RPGs with tons of space to just fuck around on the side. LT is not DoL and not every game needs to be DoL, forcing the player to do things they aren't into to get by would fundamentally change its nature and who it appeals to.
You also keep ignoring the carrot side of motivation. If you want players to invest in a more robust cash flow than robbing hobos, just dangle shiny things in front of their noses that would take forever to acquire by just robbing hobos.

 

[SordidDreams]

You also keep ignoring the carrot side of motivation. If you want players to invest in a more robust cash flow than robbing hobos, just dangle shiny things in front of their noses that would take forever to acquire by just robbing hobos.

The thing about cash flow is that that it has to flow. So those shiny things have to be constant money sinks, not just one-time purchases. Like maybe room upgrades that do something very useful and/or cool but that have a huge upkeep cost. As fun as it was to figure out how to make 1.2 million per day per slave in the milking room, with nothing to spend that money on the fun didn't last very long.

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

The thing about cash flow is that that it has to flow. So those shiny things have to be constant money sinks, not just one-time purchases. Like maybe room upgrades that do something very useful and/or cool but that have a huge upkeep cost. As fun as it was to figure out how to make 1.2 million per day per slave in the milking room, with nothing to spend that money on the fun didn't last very long.

Certainly. You could even decide to rent your own place away from auntie, as long as it's a choice you pursue and not some plot contrivance that suddenly kicks you out and forces you to come up with the cash.

 

[Evergrey]

so how do you have your slave to get a piercing or a tattoo??

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

so how do you have your slave to get a piercing or a tattoo??

Check on them in their room and under the management tab pick "send to kate".

 

[Tamara]

How do you gain XP in the Transformer, Test Subject, Kink Advocate, Kink Curious, Exhibitionist, Bimbo, Cross Dressing, and Size Queen fetishes? No matter what I do, those XP bars won't budge. Are they currently bugged or am I just doing something wrong (or rather not doing something right)?

The whole system is barely implemented. The levels don't do anything either. It's the remain of an old system that got scrapped.

 

[SordidDreams]

The whole system is barely implemented. The levels don't do anything either. It's the remain of an old system that got scrapped.

Well that's disappointing to hear. I know the levels don't do anything, but I've played the game a lot and I'm grasping at straws trying to find things to do. Ticking all the checkboxes is one of the last goals I can come up with for myself.

 

[Mr Technician]

Becoming a slime seems to be a big decision here. Still haven't decided it if i want to go this way (Slime Queen > bath). Definitly being demon looks hot - so that one for sure! But even if slime has got very tempting high physical resistance, downside to it is high hand to hand damage penalty.
Thinking also about SuccuTaur... and hoping to see extension of that quest.

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

Becoming a slime seems to be a big decision here. Still haven't decided it if i want to go this way (Slime Queen > bath). Definitly being demon looks hot - so that one for sure! But even if slime has got very tempting high physical resistance, downside to it is high hand to hand damage penalty.
Thinking also about SuccuTaur... and hoping to see extension of that quest.

Not really, slime's as casual as all the other mundane races once you've figured out the enchanting system, only demon is permanent for now. And hand to hand should only affect unarmed combat, you'll be just fine with a blade.
Inno is wrapping up the Natalya placeholders over the weekend but I don't think there's any immediate extensions planned for her after that.

 

[Deleted member 2166807]

By that same measure, it is perfectly acceptable for one of those quitters to be you. LT clearly wants to go the direction of one of those mentioned RPGs with tons of space to just fuck around on the side. LT is not DoL and not every game needs to be DoL, forcing the player to do things they aren't into to get by would fundamentally change its nature and who it appeals to.
You also keep ignoring the carrot side of motivation. If you want players to invest in a more robust cash flow than robbing hobos, just dangle shiny things in front of their noses that would take forever to acquire by just robbing hobos.

Sure. But there would be a big failure there to recognise the material reality of the situation.

People aren't playing the game between updates because there is no game to play between updates.

My explanation via the several post back and forth here is an outline of why there is no game outside of updates, and a call to create a game that can be played over and over again instead of something reliant on the content updates. They're perfectly entitled to choose not to do that, but I make the argument that everyone saw "so much potential" in this project outside of something reliant on content updates. It will have materially failed to live up to those hopes if that is all it ever seeks to be.

 

[BNT544]

Those are interchangeable words. They mean the same thing. What you're saying is that you like sandboxes with no actual challenges at all, just a general experience that you win as long as you don't do anything dumb dumb because literally nothing threatens you. We typically call these themeparks, where all the rides in the themeparks are just sitting there waiting for the player to come along and experience them if they want to.

Then maybe I should be more clear about what I meant. Sandboxes feel like they're designed around a role you are put in, with no accommodations if you want to do differently. Simulations feel like you can choose a role for yourself within a world they designed for you, with appropriate pushback and rewards.
I also wouldn't assume that because people value self-directed play over punishment, that they also don't want challenge and experimentation. Otherwise, challenge runs wouldn't be a thing. Great games are able to give different challenges and rewards for committing to different roles/playstyles.

In the non sexgame world this is the Mount and Blade approach to gameplay. And this is how Degrees of Lewdity does it.

This game's non-sex equivalent feels like a Morrowind, even Daggerfall. Not that I've played Daggerfall, but from what the fans say its' like an old Elder Scrolls game left the mods in.

Make the world both a sandbox and a story quest experience or nobody has any reason to play if they've done the story quest.

I see where you are coming from now and, at the end of the day, I agree with you. I just think the better direction for this game is less Mount and Blade, and more Daggerfall.

I'm more into stuff like The Sims, anyway. Feel free to make fun of that all you like, but face it: its' appeal is much closer to what this game has than Skyrim's.