Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.9.9] [Innoxia]
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She is the sole developer. She works every workday, full time on the game (as in, no other obligations for her to worry about). "People" need to understand that they get promised nothing for their contribution. They have simply been given the option to show their support by donating money to Inno. Again, Inno does not owe anything to you. Only spend as much as you seem fit, don't conflate donating money with a 'trade'. You aren't owed anything.
- Feb 17, 2018
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A man's pinus is gone now forever.
- Nov 30, 2017
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He still has to eat it tho. Any updates on that?
- Nov 26, 2020
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just to be sure, but isn`t there a way to grow a spinneret yet?
i was wondering why it is there on the transform menu if it isn´t a way to do
i was searching through the thread but didn´t find nothing (only that it was planned to add with other things that are already on the game, like octopus race (you can't find it but you can transform into it being a slime)
i was wondering why it is there on the transform menu if it isn´t a way to do
i was searching through the thread but didn´t find nothing (only that it was planned to add with other things that are already on the game, like octopus race (you can't find it but you can transform into it being a slime)
- Mar 1, 2018
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Other than using the 'BUGGY' menu, I haven't found any way to add spinnerets. I keep hoping that someone would add a spider-morph mod to the discord, since I have no idea how to do it myself.
Full support for Innoxia.
Considering the Fields have been delayed by more than two years, haters will be baffled when 0.4.0 and its astounding features will be released this month (TM)(Please look forward to it), including a full remake on Unreal Engine, animated 3d art even for the random encounters, and full support of a microtransaction shop full of premium hats
And remember folks: Patreon/Subscribestar doesn't entitle you to a product. It's like a gift. You're generously financing a work of art. And even if Innoxia was making 50k a month, she would still be the sole developper and we'd still have three years between each major version.
But you'd have a shiny badge on her discord though.
Considering the Fields have been delayed by more than two years, haters will be baffled when 0.4.0 and its astounding features will be released this month (TM)(Please look forward to it), including a full remake on Unreal Engine, animated 3d art even for the random encounters, and full support of a microtransaction shop full of premium hats
And remember folks: Patreon/Subscribestar doesn't entitle you to a product. It's like a gift. You're generously financing a work of art. And even if Innoxia was making 50k a month, she would still be the sole developper and we'd still have three years between each major version.
But you'd have a shiny badge on her discord though.
With no other obligations to worry about, this is probably even more alarming for some.
Of course there's no promises, but money given in this situation via Patreon, SubscribeStar, Indiegogo, Kickstarter, Twitch, whatever is all made in support of someone doing something. In the absence of an established reputation for creating content, that revenue simply doesn't get generated to begin with. That alone is enough to create expectation. We're not talking about raising money for a disaster fund to cover someone's medical bills.
Managing expectations with those who support your work is always part of the job, regardless of being your own boss, regardless of whether you've made explicit or implicit promises. Every content creator on the internet faces this issue at one point or another. As the time since your last great work advances, expectations rise accordingly. How quickly those expectations rise can be mitigated to some extent.
If you create a consistent paper trail of chronically missing your own deadlines as the head of your own project, or constantly shifting attention, or falling victim to feature creep, you leave supporters with very few conclusions. Either it's lack of foresight, lack of time management, pure laziness, or inability to manage a growing codebase such that simple changes take exorbitant amounts of time to implement.
Some of these are understandable pitfalls of being self-taught, others are character flaws. Bottom line is, if you're very bad at managing expectations, the only way to dig out of the hole is to finish the work. I don't want to speculate what the issue is, except to say that not everyone has the discipline and organizational mettle to be their own boss to the degree that they can produce consistent, quality output. Artist types especially tend to have stuggles with following through, either being over perfectionist, paralysis by analysis, or just "finding the muse."
- Oct 15, 2020
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The comments section of Innoxia's dev blog is my favorite anime.
Edit: They've been disabled. RIP
Edit: They've been disabled. RIP
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- Mar 1, 2018
- 2,101
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I mean, if people are donating to show their support, it is primarily because they like the dev's project and the work being put on it, but when you realise that nearly the majority of the new content in the last 2 years has been done by parallel contributers and that nearly every promises of the dev that """"works every workday"""" has been broken in some way, it brings to question as to why you should even consider donating. Why encourage someone to work on a project when even with considerable amounts of money and ""work time"" this very project seems stuck in time? Even worse, the more certain content who should've took weeks/months to release gets delayed, the more investers are spending money in vain. Of course Innoxia doesn't "owe" anything, but at this point no one owe's her any money nor are they encouraged to even spend anything to encourage her when reasons to do so are running dry and that she turns a deaf ear towards any criticism that has been bloating in intensity for years now after accumulating so much broken promises.
I'm coming to the conclusion that the biggest obstacle to the development isn't Inno working alone or her unrealistic timeframes, it's the fact she bends all too easily to whatever the community wants. Not too long I would have thought the contrary; that she never listens or even cares about what half of the players are saying (unless it comes from a specific crowd, that gets preferential treatment over the rest). The blog has been filled with complaints, critiques and suggestions over the years on what to change and improve. I, too, have written my share of it.
But the more I think about it, the more I realize some, if not most, of these problems stem from the community itself - everyone is trying to steer development in their direction and it is hurting the overall progress of the game. Remember the Patreon promises from last year? Months and months of development stalled to add content that supporters asked for, some years back. Even though it was annoying, it was at least understandable. That being said, she admitted then that it was a mistake and would not do it again.
Now we are at another impasse. Half the community wants to progress the story, the other half wants more sandbox content. IMO story has been halted for years so it makes sense to give it the spotlight now (I'm biased on the matter though, so make of it what you will.) This latest Nyan rework wasn't planned, it was a Discord "hot-take" that Inno decided to oblige. Once again, people's requests are stalling the game's development. If you like Nyan and/or sandbox content, then you're probably living the dream, I guess... sucks for the rest.
Another situation - how many times has she gone back and forth on setting deadlines vs not saying anything? If she gives estimates (but fails to keep them), people call her a liar and rage about her inability to deliver. (Admittedly, this is her fault for setting up unrealistic timeframes for herself.) But if she doesn't say anything then people get upset about the radio silence. Both instances where she stopped giving deadlines, and went back on it, was mostly at the community's behest.
Development is stuck in Hell because Inno can't get her priorities straight and caves in too easily to the people's demands.
(I know this entire post is a paradox - I'm telling the developer what to do, on a post that pretty much criticizes that aspect of her. But it is what it is...)
But the more I think about it, the more I realize some, if not most, of these problems stem from the community itself - everyone is trying to steer development in their direction and it is hurting the overall progress of the game. Remember the Patreon promises from last year? Months and months of development stalled to add content that supporters asked for, some years back. Even though it was annoying, it was at least understandable. That being said, she admitted then that it was a mistake and would not do it again.
Now we are at another impasse. Half the community wants to progress the story, the other half wants more sandbox content. IMO story has been halted for years so it makes sense to give it the spotlight now (I'm biased on the matter though, so make of it what you will.) This latest Nyan rework wasn't planned, it was a Discord "hot-take" that Inno decided to oblige. Once again, people's requests are stalling the game's development. If you like Nyan and/or sandbox content, then you're probably living the dream, I guess... sucks for the rest.
Another situation - how many times has she gone back and forth on setting deadlines vs not saying anything? If she gives estimates (but fails to keep them), people call her a liar and rage about her inability to deliver. (Admittedly, this is her fault for setting up unrealistic timeframes for herself.) But if she doesn't say anything then people get upset about the radio silence. Both instances where she stopped giving deadlines, and went back on it, was mostly at the community's behest.
Development is stuck in Hell because Inno can't get her priorities straight and caves in too easily to the people's demands.
(I know this entire post is a paradox - I'm telling the developer what to do, on a post that pretty much criticizes that aspect of her. But it is what it is...)
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The comment sections haven't actually been that bad, aside from the one post that turned into a clusterfuck of fights over trans people existing. Like, for the most part everyone was just laughing at how stupid this all was. Some people shitting on the discord, but really the comments were no where near as bad as they had been like a year ago.
My guess was that she realized how incredibly terrible the blog was for advertising the game. Like, how would you view a game if you went to its main website and the first post was you announcing a delay and all the top comments were just "lmao, called it." Or people going like 20 posts deep pointing out all the delays.
And even the constructive stuff was highlighting out how badly designed the game and workflow is.
The blogspot comments were saying that Inno should get off discord. I'm betting discord was saying that she should kill comments on the blog. And we know which one she prefers lol
But now we'll never get a post with over 1000 comments. Lame. I suspect a bunch of us who were posting there regularly are here now though, so this thread might get a big bump in activity.
Ninja edit: Also, on the topic of who owes who what: Inno is selling a product. She's making a game and she wants you to pay her to do so. That makes the game a product. So she owes you the exact same thing as any other company owes you. On paper, literally nothing. In reality, they owe you a good product. Because their goal is to make money, and that's how they do it.
All this "it's free so she doesn't owe you anything" discussion is stupid. Yes, obviously. But she also wants to make a living, so she better put out a good enough product to keep her customers.
I disagree. I think we're stuck in dev hell for two reasons.
1) Inno wasn't a developer really before this. And the game very clearly lacks long term planning with its design. A game like this should be designed to make adding new content as simple and easy as possible, and it's *really* not. And each system change is harder and harder for her to do, because the game wasn't well designed from the beginning.
2) Inno isn't that good/fast of a writer. I've contributed plenty of writing to other games, so I have a general idea of how long it should take to write some of this stuff. All of the Nyan rework content would have taken me a few weeks as a side project, not months. And not having to write actual unique, interesting sex scenes, fuck that'd be easy as hell. The only way that Nyan's rework should be taking months is if point #1 is true beyond what I gathered tearing through her code, or if Inno just isn't very quick with the writing.
Plus given how much of a disjointed mess all the other writing is, like, she definitely doesn't have a long term plan here lol
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She doesn't have a plan, period. Some (if not most) of these new "additions" that keep popping up and delaying the mythical 4.0 release, were just things she came up with and/or were requested by the community, at the last minute. It is obvious by her workflow that she has no plan whatsoever other than to work on whatever strikes her fancy at the moment.
LT is her first hands-on experience at developing a game and it shows. The entire thing has flaws from top to bottom, so much so that it would take some serious rework and a lot of time to get it into ship-shape form... either that or she would have to scrap the game and start anew, this time with the knowledge she has accrued over the years.
Lilith's Throne stands on very shaky legs. I estimate that this project, if it ever reaches completion, is going to be one tortuous and grueling experience for Inno. If the whole development process doesn't get to her, the community will. I'm sure she must have some skills, that being said, she's not the right person to be working on a project of this scale all by herself, and definitely not under these conditions.
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Yeah I almost wish they'd just scrap it and remake it at this point. There's clearly a reason they've been procrastinating advancing for so long. That said, I get the feeling even if they tried to remake the game, there'd still be a lot of similar issues down the line. Maybe they can fix 80% of the current issues they have if the remade the game, but they'd probably hit some new ones and this kind of situation could happen again. I've seen a lot of devs get in that loop of constantly remaking things and never finishing anything doing that.
Might be best to just end the game soon and start on a sequel or something. At least people won't expect all the content to be transferred over to the new game like if it was a remake. That's if they can actually plan out all the new stuff better though. If they continue with this system, shit is just going to keep getting harder/more tangled up. If they're already having trouble adding content, imagine in a year or two. I can't see this being completed if they don't make a major change.
At the end of the day, most people just want to see this project succeed and get more content and shit.
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- Feb 25, 2018
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Man, I don't know how to code properly; I barely know how to make bbcode posts w/o just using the buttons and shortcuts, but since I started to learn a few things, I only have one thing to say: hot damn, Inno's coding sucks.
I can barely make a hello world w/o help, but dude... What the heck is this mess. How does this game even works at all?
I can barely make a hello world w/o help, but dude... What the heck is this mess. How does this game even works at all?
- Oct 15, 2020
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Not well. It chugs like a steam locomotive when you have too many generated NPCs.
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I feel like if she didn't promise things after things on her blog for everyone to see then the comments wouldn't be such a problem. Just drop the update and that's it. No Fucking apology, No fucking deadline and no delay announcement. You're making it worst. If you want to spoil everyone on your discord about what's coming next then that's fine. That's your private fan discord. But if you keep announcing to the public on your blog that you keep fucking up every single GOD DAMN TIME! Then people are going to be mad at your incompetence.
She needs help with this game but she's too stupidly stubborn with doing this massive project solo. This project is probably going to kill her if this continues like this. Every time people ask her to hire someone to help her, they just get assaulted with comments like: She can do what she wants or she wants full control so NO. At this point, I hate to say it. But she's brought this all on herself.
Sidenote: Now the community is pretty much us vs them. Before I left the discord, it was filled with white knights that would blast you for saying anything negative about her or her game. Even an innocent when's the next update coming was met with passive aggressive comments.
She needs help with this game but she's too stupidly stubborn with doing this massive project solo. This project is probably going to kill her if this continues like this. Every time people ask her to hire someone to help her, they just get assaulted with comments like: She can do what she wants or she wants full control so NO. At this point, I hate to say it. But she's brought this all on herself.
Sidenote: Now the community is pretty much us vs them. Before I left the discord, it was filled with white knights that would blast you for saying anything negative about her or her game. Even an innocent when's the next update coming was met with passive aggressive comments.
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great game, thoroughly enjoyed the story so far. disappointed in the lack of images/animations, could go above and beyond if you threw in a basic paperdoll system, which i know is a bit of a bear given the amount of different items in the game, but would so complete the situational representation with an idea of what the characters look like. amazing feat though