Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.9.9] [Innoxia]

[tehlemon]

Blog update from yesterday.

Hello again,

Unfortunately it's bad news this time. I've been struggling to get the content implemented for the side quest area which I mentioned in the previous release, and so it's looking like this next version is going to take a while longer to get finished than I'd planned. I'll do my best to get this version released as soon as I can, but there are some aspects to this new content which are giving me some trouble.

As a result, v0.4.2 won't be out this weekend. I'll make another progress post on Tuesday to let you know how things are going. Sorry about this delay; I should have just stuck to the original plan of adding the shopping precinct area to Elis for this version, instead of adding this other new area as part of it.

Another week, another delay. I don't think anyone is surprised at this point. Hell, I don't think anyone even cares enough to laugh at it, since it went a full 24 hours without getting posted lol

 

[PussyPassAnon]

Threw up my latest mod. It's the one I have been working on for last few months. It isn't done; just needs a lot of aesthetic work (icons, explanatory text, and such) and user friendliness. Check it out through sig link. I'll start looking into improving the core game's status checker mechanics as stated before and see what I can do (no promises).

 

[ModraHD]

Because, of course, challenge and entertainment are mutually exclusive and everyone thinks exactly like you in that they don't find challenge to be fun nor entertaining, I guess.
Hahaha. But, sure. Whatever you say, buddy.
I guess a game can't have both challenge and sandboxiness, especially when it has adjustable difficulties, like any other video game since the dawn of gaming.

EDIT: By the way, it's funny how you claim a dude is trying to enforce a game's definition on others when the part of your post he responded to -- the same part to which to I am also -- is you literally trying to enforce your own beliefs about what a game is on the rest of us, which he challenged. You're at least self-aware enough to have realized that though.

Anyway, I guess we'll just have to keep spinning around and around in this never ending void of endless, irrelevant NPC add-ons and side quests!

He said something along the lines of "Only challenges release the feel good brain chemicals" and nowhere did I say that challenge and entertainment are mutually exclusive or incompatible in the slightest. I wouldn't, because that would be stupid and would promote bickering and rude behaviour. I really enjoy when people tell me what I said and are wrong about it, though, especially when they do it to start a real argument. There was no direct definition or stance that I declared correct beyond a general "at best, we're both wrong," save for the initial argument against the "This is the ONLY way" stance, an argument which I admitted was similar to his stance and you picked up on since it was unhidden in the first sentence. I'll keep an eye out for any new changes in your opinion to ignore if you post a reply. I'd also assert that enforcing a belief is brokering no alternative, which I did not do.

Welcome to internet arguments though, where people see what they want to get angry, buddy, and the points don't matter. I'll leave your remaining straw man arguments unanswered.

 

[ModraHD]

Blog update from yesterday.



Another week, another delay. I don't think anyone is surprised at this point. Hell, I don't think anyone even cares enough to laugh at it, since it went a full 24 hours without getting posted lol

Honestly I get mad Inno doesn't have the balls to just do away with promises that get broken and the resultant apology orgy. They either need a break, a full code rewrite, or a team. I can understand why they like the money and the ownership though.

 

[Dr.Feelgood]

Honestly I get mad Inno doesn't have the balls to just do away with promises that get broken and the resultant apology orgy. They either need a break, a full code rewrite, or a team. I can understand why they like the money and the ownership though.

I think this right here sums up most everyone's feelings on Lilith's Throne's development for... what, almost a year now?

 

[DeltaDuster]

I think this right here sums up most everyone's feelings on Lilith's Throne's development for... what, almost a year now?

Longer.. these last few months have been the only main story progress since I found the game in mid-2019 (before 0.3.3.6).

Mildly related:

You must be registered to see the links

from the start of 2019. Compare then to now and see how much has changed.

 

[PussyPassAnon]

He said something along the lines of "Only challenges release the feel good brain chemicals" and nowhere did I say that challenge and entertainment are mutually exclusive or incompatible in the slightest. I wouldn't, because that would be stupid and would promote bickering and rude behaviour. I really enjoy when people tell me what I said and are wrong about it, though, especially when they do it to start a real argument. There was no direct definition or stance that I declared correct beyond a general "at best, we're both wrong," save for the initial argument against the "This is the ONLY way" stance, an argument which I admitted was similar to his stance and you picked up on since it was unhidden in the first sentence. I'll keep an eye out for any new changes in your opinion to ignore if you post a reply. I'd also assert that enforcing a belief is brokering no alternative, which I did not do.

Welcome to internet arguments though, where people see what they want to get angry, buddy, and the points don't matter. I'll leave your remaining straw man arguments unanswered.

Yeah, you're insane. Waste of time explaining anything to you. Makes assumptions about things, then tells everyone else they're the ones assuming. Lol.
I tried being gentle about it, but it's not worth my time.

EDIT: But, I'll just leave these quotes here and let you wrestle with yourself over how far from reality your mind is.

Me: It's almost as if a game isn't a game without challenges and struggles.

You: Pretty sure games are for entertainment first and foremost mate

Me: Because, of course, challenge and entertainment are mutually exclusive and everyone thinks exactly like you in that they don't find challenge to be fun nor entertaining

You: nowhere did I say that challenge and entertainment are mutually exclusive or incompatible in the slightest.

It's like, if you're not disagreeing that challenge can be fun, then why did you argue? As if challenge isn't included under the umbrella of entertainment? Now, you're acting like you weren't the one starting the argument. It's crazy.

 

[labatadoria]

Sorry to ask for help again, but I'm trying to put together a clothing mod (a hijab for a character who starts as a bit of a puritan but grows increasingly corrupt over time), but the item that would serve as the obvious base for it (the kerchief) is nowhere to be found in the game files, and the rather poor explainers of what everything required/the terms used/etc. in the .xml files limit my ability to actually implement it. I've already made the .svg file using the appropriate color grading and whatnot, but can anyone tell me what the kerchief is actually called or otherwise help me along with the rest of it?

EDIT: I've included a .zip file with the image, if anyone wants to take their own swing at it. I was going to use "A religious veil worn by Muslim women." as the description, and was planning to have "untied" as the removal condition, and for it to cover the head and hair, if that's helpful at all.

 

[DSGMods]

but the item that would serve as the obvious base for it (the kerchief) is nowhere to be found in the game files, and the rather poor explainers of what everything required/the terms used/etc. in the .xml files limit my ability to actually implement it

To reduce filesizes, only one .xml retains its full documentation, and the bandana is not it.
The fully documented XML is at: /res/mods/innoxia/items/clothing/template
And the XML for the bandana is at: /res/clothing/innoxia/mouth

 

[GuiltyElation]

I think the source code needs complete rewrites in multiple areas if we want any hope of reasonable development timelines tbh, I was planning on making quest mods until I took a look at the repo.

Look at files like game/character/quests/Quest.java and game/character/fetishes/Fetish.java; the information for every quest/fetish is stored in a single file, in an enum class of all things(???). It's especially bad in Quest.java, which uses hard coded values for everything (strings with no substitution) - I don't understand why all this information couldn't just be stored in a JSON or something and read from there. Less boilerplate method overrides, easier to add new quests both for Innoxia and modders, and no 2000 line classes lol ~

An example for non-coders would be how new content can be added easily to Bethesda titles through esp files, so the "master" files don't have to be messed with and the game doesn't need to be recompiled with every mod.

It's apparent she's trying to improve on these issues and make it look at least a little bit like proper SOLID OOP, but right now that has just led to inconsistent implementations of things and weird snippets like

if(quest.equalsIgnoreCase("MAIN_3_A_FINDING_THE_YOUKO")) {
    return Quest.MAIN_3_ELIS; // whyyy
} else {
    return Quest.valueOf(quest);   
}

I don't mean to say bad things about Innoxia - I love the game so far and have nothing but respect for anyone who has the passion to give up a normal dev's salary to work on passion projects like this. But with the codebase as it is, it's obvious why content updates are taking so long, and until these issues are addressed I really don't see this game finishing within the next 10 years even as the issues are only going to get worse.

 

[labatadoria]

To reduce filesizes, only one .xml retains its full documentation, and the bandana is not it.
The fully documented XML is at: /res/mods/innoxia/items/clothing/template
And the XML for the bandana is at: /res/clothing/innoxia/mouth

Thanks for responding! The kerchief is actually a distinct object vs. the bandana, lacking the mouth-covering part that renders the bandana so confusing. It's for sale at Nyann's store as an item of enchanted clothing, if that's helpful at all. As far as I can tell, it's not located in clothing section at all, but would basically be exactly what I'm looking for with the exception of adding hair to the covered objects and making appropriate changes to the description.

The fully documented .xml is a bit confusing to me, to be honest; it's unclear to me what the essential elements are, versus what can be safely excised from it. Sorry, I'm a bit new to trying to code something. I'll give it another swing when I'm off work, though!

EDIT: I included an image of the item in question.

 

[DSGMods]

Thanks for responding! The kerchief is actually a distinct object vs. the bandana, lacking the mouth-covering part that renders the bandana so confusing. It's for sale at Nyann's store as an item of enchanted clothing, if that's helpful at all. As far as I can tell, it's not located in clothing section at all, but would basically be exactly what I'm looking for with the exception of adding hair to the covered objects and making appropriate changes to the description.

The fully documented .xml is a bit confusing to me, to be honest; it's unclear to me what the essential elements are, versus what can be safely excised from it. Sorry, I'm a bit new to trying to code something. I'll give it another swing when I'm off work, though!

Ah, I see. I remembered incorrectly. The kerchief is a "legacy" item that lives only in Java rather than XML which is why you cannot see it after compile. Fortunately, someone converted almost all of the legacy items into XMLs and put them into a ZIP on the Discord

You must be registered to see the links

. Unfortunately even after formatting improvements this is a bit hard to read so pay attention to the tags.

The documentation is very complete for what you are attempting. Read carefully as it will tell you exactly what is needed and what is not.

I don't understand why all this information couldn't just be stored in a JSON or something and read from there. Less boilerplate method overrides, easier to add new quests both for Innoxia and modders, and no 2000 line classes lol ~

An example for non-coders would be how new content can be added easily to Bethesda titles through esp files, so the "master" files don't have to be messed with and the game doesn't need to be recompiled with every mod.

The plan is to externalize as much as possible into XMLs as has been done for (in rough chronological order): dialogue, items, outfits, races, encounters, placetypes, dialogue nodes, and worldtypes. This will include quests in the future, and NPCs...somehow. The pendulum has swung away from more framework for now, however, so it will be some time. Maxis is already at work converting all legacy dialogue into XML, so this front is not entirely stagnant.

 

[labatadoria]

I *think* I got it right on the .xml, but apparently I messed up the .svg, as it doesn't seem to be scaling right at all and won't color switch. I think the issue might be that I did the actual image editing in photoshop using the color values from Inkscape, and they didn't track when I reimported it into Inkscape. Is there some easy fix? Sorry for all of the questions, I'm extremely new to all of this. I've attached the mod, if you wouldn't mind taking a look at it.

EDIT: I figured out the issue with the image! Fixing it now and will reupload the mod in a future post, so only the .xml is much of an issue now.

 

[tehlemon]

The plan is to externalize as much as possible into XMLs as has been done for (in rough chronological order): dialogue, items, outfits, races, encounters, placetypes, dialogue nodes, and worldtypes. This will include quests in the future, and NPCs...somehow. The pendulum has swung away from more framework for now, however, so it will be some time. Maxis is already at work converting all legacy dialogue into XML, so this front is not entirely stagnant.

Thank god for people willing to do the work for free while Inno gets paid for it all, or this would be a 20 year plan.

In like four years we've successfully completed... two of those. Maybe three, although I can't be assed to check if the third was fully completed. The last I heard it wasn't fully done.

And then maybe once all that's done we'll come back to all the placeholder systems like, IDK, the entire game progression.

And somehow we're going to do all this while still implementing content so Inno's payday doesn't disappear, which already required one giant cash grab to maintain. Content that'll make each remaining part harder, unless volunteers do it for free. When we were barely drip feeding content while that was the focus...


But hey, for all the people screaming about a complete re-write, we're eventually going to get into a ship of theseus debate to fill our time.

 

[labatadoria]

And here's my "finished" hijab mod, with a working colorable .svg file! Thanks for your help, DSGMods!

I think I got the .xml file right (I got it to spawn in-game and didn't notice any issues, at least), but I'd love to get a more scrutinizing set of eyes on it, if anyone has the time!

 

[DSGMods]

And here's my "finished" hijab mod, with a working colorable .svg file! Thanks for your help, DSGMods!

I think I got the .xml file right (I got it to spawn in-game and didn't notice any issues, at least), but I'd love to get a more scrutinizing set of eyes on it, if anyone has the time!

I see that you started out in Photoshop, and judging from the size of the SVG and the number of nodes in it, I am going to guess that you auto-traced your raster work to turn it into a vector. I highly recommend that you do a hand trace as large files will slow down the game. I try to keep to less than 100 KB unless I have a really good reason and I vaguely recall 1 MB or more will immediately crash the game.

As an aside, you'll want Illustrator if you want to stay in the Adobe camp, but its adherence to the SVG standard is tenuous in places, so I always try to at least color the item in Inkscape.

One test I like to do is to put as many layers around the inventory slot as possible and then try to remove stuff from under it and then put all that stuff back on. A small thing in your XML, have you tried to unequip this item?

 

[labatadoria]

I see that you started out in Photoshop, and judging from the size of the SVG and the number of nodes in it, I am going to guess that you auto-traced your raster work to turn it into a vector. I highly recommend that you do a hand trace as large files will slow down the game. I try to keep to less than 100 KB unless I have a really good reason and I vaguely recall 1 MB or more will immediately crash the game.

As an aside, you'll want Illustrator if you want to stay in the Adobe camp, but its adherence to the SVG standard is tenuous in places, so I always try to at least color the item in Inkscape.

One test I like to do is to put as many layers around the inventory slot as possible and then try to remove stuff from under it and then put all that stuff back on. A small thing in your XML, have you tried to unequip this item?

I'll see what I can do on the redraw! Regarding the XML, I did just try to unequip and didn't run into any issues (though it just reads "unequips" instead of "unties" or the like); did you spot something?

 

[PussyPassAnon]

--Mod Update--
She-Virus Mod: Found some typos in the code and misplaced lines; fixed them up.

 

[GuiltyElation]

The plan is to externalize as much as possible into XMLs as has been done for (in rough chronological order): dialogue, items, outfits, races, encounters, placetypes, dialogue nodes, and worldtypes. This will include quests in the future, and NPCs...somehow. The pendulum has swung away from more framework for now, however, so it will be some time. Maxis is already at work converting all legacy dialogue into XML, so this front is not entirely stagnant.

I guess it just so happened that the things I wanted to mod aren't externalized yet. Unlucky ><

Props to Maxis and the other volunteer devs, technical debt ages like milk but it's definitely true that Innoxia can't spend too much time on framework as most people care more (only?) about content. Maybe I'll drop by the Discord and start tackling quest externalization myself

 

[DSGMods]

I'll see what I can do on the redraw! Regarding the XML, I did just try to unequip and didn't run into any issues (though it just reads "unequips" instead of "unties" or the like); did you spot something?

Typically the displacement type REMOVE_OR_EQUIP takes precedence, so if there is only one displacement for an item that should be the one. But if your item works, it works.

I guess it just so happened that the things I wanted to mod aren't externalized yet. Unlucky ><

Props to Maxis and the other volunteer devs, technical debt ages like milk but it's definitely true that Innoxia can't spend too much time on framework as most people care more (only?) about content. Maybe I'll drop by the Discord and start tackling quest externalization myself

Keeping your own stuff merge friendly can be a real pain sometimes. I just hope you have better timing than I do. Felicia's expansion suffered from this a few times, and when it finally came time for it to be merged...the new dialogue and map frameworks were released. With my luck, when my next NPC is merged, NPC and quest frameworks will be released as well.

Well, if you do decide to drop by, PR in hand, let me know.