RPGM Abandoned Lily of the Valley [v2.0] [P and P]

[Pogo123]

puh this discussion is getting out of hand since days... if it already happened many times the past 3 years, as some mentioned, i wonder why nothing changed in one way or another.

i personally gave PnP 15 bucks a few months ago. Money i didnt really had, but since i played everything of years of work i wanted to show appreciation in a bit more than words (and that they don't give up) i also talked with them and they were pretty nice and quite busy already back then. and later i had to cancel support completely, cause of money issues, like latex224 always mentiones, also. :/ still one of my fav porn games and will always be in my top 3. idk why some guys talk it down so much i mean yeah the animations are a bit stiff in comparison to new games or games with bigger support (and the limiations of positions still bugs me) BUT it still aged well, the all around package is great (very understandable and smooth gameplay, great char :3, solide fetishes and nice story) many games lack these things more or less. even many newer ones. so get the stick out of your butt please guys who complain like that.

that they can't communicate well... well it seems even LotV veterans like Gr8Dumper agree to this. which doesn't mean that they already have to be liars maybe its really hard to them to communicate (maybe its a mentality thing? maybe really just the lack of english? guess we will never know) but at least they try to communicate here.

i saw devs who just disappear never seen again (humbling experience), devs who can't communicate at all and really try to milk as much as possible (MilfCity) and games which have an update ever half year or later with even less content than LotV where you have to wait years for actual sex and personal fetishes.

ofc it bothers me also it gets delayed and delayed all over again... but it still can be FAR worse. so calm your tits a bit, my "conspiracy theorists".

ibizadalton here have some coffee to lighten up your mood. (and i think the smiley on discord was a "yeah i know who you are" kinda thing )

 

[Gr8Dumper]

puh this discussion is getting out of hand since days... if it already happened many times the past 3 years, as some mentioned, i wonder why nothing changed in one way or another.

i personally gave PnP 15 bucks a few months ago. Money i didnt really had, but since i played everything of years of work i wanted to show appreciation in a bit more than words (and that they don't give up) i also talked with them and they were pretty nice and quite busy already back then. and later i had to cancel support completely, cause of money issues, like latex224 always mentiones, also. :/ still one of my fav porn games and will always be in my top 3. idk why some guys talk it down so much i mean yeah the animations are a bit stiff in comparison to new games or games with bigger support (and the limiations of positions still bugs me) BUT it still aged well, the all around packes is great (very understandable and smooth gameplay, great char :3, solide fetishes and nice story) many games lack these things more or less. even many newer ones. so get the stick out of your butt please guys who complain like that.

that they can't communicate well... well it seems even LotV veterans like Gr8Dumper agree to this. which doesn't mean that they already have to be liars maybe its really hard to them to communicate (maybe its a mentality thing? maybe really just the lack of english? guess we will never know) but at least they try to communicate here.

i saw devs who just disappear never seen again (humbling experience), devs who can't communicate at all and really try to milk as much as possible (MilfCity) and games which have an update ever half year or later with even less content than LotV where you have to wait years for actual sex and personal fetishes.

ofc it bothers me also it gets delayed and delayed all over again... but it still can be FAR worse. so calm your tits a bit, my "conspiracy theorists".

"even veterans like" me

The communication, yes this is something i have discussed with P and P extensively in 1 on 1 messages over the years, even offered to help with that.

Honestly, they truth is that they are not comfortable in English at all. I actually think P is pretty good but he does not think so. Therefore they are very uncomfortable engaging in a dialog in English with lots of back and forth. and especially when there is shit being thrown around (like here)...
This is also why they have a dedicated translator to translate the game text so it's well done.

So since I know a bit more about them than most, I can honestly say it's mostly a language barrier why they do not engage the community in back and forth dialog. It's not that they do not want it's just not working for them. It would be like me trying to engage in a French speaking forum...

 

[kango6111]

Are folks truly that blind to not see that they are too close to scooping another month of Patreon fees to release the game prior to the first week of June?

We have seen this happen before... happy to be wrong, but do not expect anything until the next month of fees is collected. We have seen this act way to many times to be oblivious to it.

 

[Gr8Dumper]

Are folks truly that blind to not see that they are too close to scooping another month of Patreon fees to release the game prior to the first week of June?

We have seen this happen before... happy to be wrong, but do not expect anything until the next month of fees is collected. We have seen this act way to many times to be oblivious to it.

We'll see what happens - give it until Sunday then you can call that out. Don't want to say more but... well, let's see...

 

[Deleted member 34554]

''We're testing it, We're playing it, We're polishing it. It's pretty much all I can say.''

The update is ready for days... he will release end of month like he always does, to hold people from stop donating.

 

[Deleted member 34473]

 

[Sir Cummington 2nd]

All I can say as an ex patron to many creators;
It isnt the money im feeling sorry for, it is the communication between the creators and patrons that vanishes after few updates, ergo, a lot of people quit supporting because of the inactivity of developers. In this case, it would be a real pity to let this project die.

 

[Gr8Dumper]

View attachment 672487

getting better and better!

Face looks very close now...
butt's too big i think, but you're getting close!

 

[tetreb]

View attachment 672487

Well u forgot one nail on her finger and i think too much makeup on face

 

[cold_arctus]

Wow!! I'm surprised to see that so many "pirates" are worried about where other peoples money goes. Why does it bother them if P&P collects another month of support before the release? If you are a Patron and feel "milked" then pls cancel your support right now. In two days Patron/Paypal will collect the money for next month.

Tbh with you guys, I do not care for what you spend your money. Or should I actually worry about your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend spending money on a sex toy??

I always thought it is a pirate's interest to be in good terms with the devs, because 90% of us here play the game for free anywhere.. so why calling them liar or accuse them being scammer/milker? Without Patrons no game. Without a game no Lily. Doesn't it have a contra-productive effect for pirates and piracy?

Just imagine P&P decide to switch engines to Unity and put up a paywall that only paying patrons have access to the game via P&P's servers..

 

[JochenErfurt]

Sorry, but then I don't understand your initial question.

I thought it was a serious question about taxation for supporters or how tax regulations are handled for game developer by Patreon.

No, i was just joking. It seems you have a good idea about taxation. I'm here in this Forum, because i'm waiting for updates and sometimes enjoying the discussion, for example between Pogo and Latex although i'm not in his fetish. I love the game Lily of the valley and i hope for the update, nothing more.

 

[Latex224]

No, i was just joking. It seems you have a good idea about taxation. I'm here in this Forum, because i'm waiting for updates and sometimes enjoying the discussion, for example between Pogo and Latex although i'm not in his fetish. I love the game Lily of the valley and i hope for the update, nothing more.

HEY! Don't talk shit about my fetish

 

[Pogo123]

Wow!! I'm surprised to see that so many "pirates" are worried about where other peoples money goes. Why does it bother them if P&P collects another month of support before the release? If you are a Patron and feel "milked" then pls cancel your support right now. In two days Patron/Paypal will collect the money for next month.

Tbh with you guys, I do not care for what you spend your money. Or should I actually worry about your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend spending money on a sex toy??

I always thought it is a pirate's interest to be in good terms with the devs, because 90% of us here play the game for free anywhere.. so why calling them liar or accuse them being scammer/milker? Without Patrons no game. Without a game no Lily. Doesn't it have a contra-productive effect for pirates and piracy?

Just imagine P&P decide to switch engines to Unity and put up a paywall that only paying patrons have access to the game via P&P's servers..

well written. and really good points.

JochenErfurt thanks for the laughs mate (i mean I have sometimes weird fetishes but latex224 ? he has some really weird fetishes but psst! don’t tell him he is very sensitive on that topic and thanks for agreeing)

 

[BloodyMares]

Wow!! I'm surprised to see that so many "pirates" are worried about where other peoples money goes. Why does it bother them if P&P collects another month of support before the release? If you are a Patron and feel "milked" then pls cancel your support right now. In two days Patron/Paypal will collect the money for next month.

I don't think "pirates" actually care about other people's money. They only care about the game and want to see more of it. But if the devs are not transparent and take too long with each update, there's a constant worry that patrons will leave and the project is going to be dropped or end up being stuck in limbo indefinitely. Some are very passionate about this and get frustrated easily but I'd say it's to be expected. You can't deny that it's bad PR. I'm just amazed that P&P still get away with their release schedule. Most devs get flack for delaying for another 2 weeks or worse - a month, let alone taking more than 2 months to develop a single update. I almost forgot this game was a thing, to be honest. As long as patrons are satisfied with waiting half a year for an update and not receiving clear explanation for the delay, and the game is going to continue no matter what, then who am I to complain.

 

[cold_arctus]

But if the devs are not transparent and take too long with each update, there's a constant worry that patrons will leave and the project is going to be dropped or end up being stuck in limbo indefinitely.

In other words, they are selfish and afraid of being ntr'd (Lily gets dropped and a new game appears).

Some are very passionate about this and get frustrated easily but I'd say it's to be expected.

For me it feels that some of them are addicted to adult games and don't know what else they can do when they don't have anything to play.

I know the feeling, sometimes I browse through F95 to find "the ultimate" game featuring all my kinks just to realize that the game is either on-hold, abandoned or next update is months away. However, after joining a dev-team I saw how much time it takes to create a game. Since then I started to respect people working on games. It is an ungrateful job, to be honest.

You can't deny that it's bad PR. I'm just amazed that P&P still get away with their release schedule.

True. It is bad PR. But again, why should I care if and how P&P communicate with their Patrons? (I think what you wrote above answers my question.)

Most devs get flack for delaying for another 2 weeks or worse - a month, let alone taking more than 2 months to develop a single update.

Surprisingly I only see that by pirates on F95 or by non-patrons on Discord. From my own experience as dev-team member or as Mod on Discord the patrons aren't as vocal as the group of pirates/non-patrons. You can delay a game for a month and patrons will tell you that they don't care. Announce a delay on F95 and pirates will call you a scammer/milker who steal their Patrons money. Another observation I made was: high-tier patrons are the most silent group. I personally know a few people who pay $100 each month and some of them don't even care about their rewards (custom render etc.). Non-Patrons on the other hand will start all sort of argument with you, why there wasn't a sex scene with character A, what they want to have in a game and what they don't want to have, why it takes so much time to release an update with 5 min playtime (skipping all dialogues etc..) ... and the list goes on and on...

As long as patrons are satisfied with waiting half a year for an update and not receiving clear explanation for the delay, and the game is going to continue no matter what, then who am I to complain.

Totally agree with that.

 

[BloodyMares]

Surprisingly I only see that by pirates on F95 or by non-patrons on Discord. From my own experience as dev-team member or as Mod on Discord the patrons aren't as vocal as the group of pirates/non-patrons. You can delay a game for a month and patrons will tell you that they don't care. Announce a delay on F95 and pirates will call you a scammer/milker who steal their Patrons money. Another observation I made was: high-tier patrons are the most silent group. I personally know a few people who pay $100 each month and some of them don't even care about their rewards (custom render etc.). Non-Patrons on the other hand will start all sort of argument with you, why there wasn't a sex scene with character A, what they want to have in a game and what they don't want to have, why it takes so much time to release an update with 5 min playtime (skipping all dialogues etc..) ... and the list goes on and on...

It is very surprising. At least when you're a pirate, you can try other stuff to play, the only thing that you invest is your time. But when you're a patron, especially of a high-tier, I would think it's natural to demand that you get your money's worth after months of nothing. I'm not that much surprised by pirates being vocal, but rather by patrons being silent. Are they super-rich and just donate money for the sake of it, even if they get nothing in return? Or do they just silently cancel their pledge after being disappointed and move on? This is the only thing that eludes my understanding. I understand when people support devs who don't release their game in parts each month, but those devs usually take 6 to 12 months to develop an entire game and release it once it's ready and polished (like Tora Productions).

 

[DimitarM12]

i mean, they can trash talk, but they can't say anything about the update... what a donkeys

 

[cold_arctus]

Are they super-rich and just donate money for the sake of it, even if they get nothing in return? Or do they just silently cancel their pledge after being disappointed and move on? This is the only thing that eludes my understanding.

Believe me or not but high-tier Patrons, $25 and above per month, are the most royal supporters a dev has (the core group of supporters). They rarely change their tiers compare to low-tiers, who switch tiers between $1 and $25 or cancel their support completely in between updates.

I once tried to get in touch with a $100 supporter but he ignored all my private messages. Same for dev trying to contact him about his custom render request. No response. And he continues to pay $100 each month without saying a word. Another high-tier patron told me that he likes the art and consider his pledge as commission fee for his custom render. And yes, he has a good paying job and pledged already over $1,000 to the dev. A $25 tier patron told me that he supports a few other dev at the same time - each month $400 to $500 in total.

Those guys are the real people who are responsible that devs can continue to work on the game. Upgrading their hardware to create images with more details in it and render faster. Otherwise all games would have grainy renders with less details in it. (However, seeing the high demand for "crunched/compressed" game here I'm not surprised that people are not interested in quality but actually in quantity.) More renders, more updates... Let's be honest here, those guys would also fap to a stick-figure if they ares labeled as "mom" and "son".

Having this first hand experience I think the pirate's accusation of milking/scamming their patrons is no longer valid. Of course they are exceptions for a few special devs, but the majority of devs aren't milker/scammer or lazy.

 

[Gr8Dumper]

Believe me or not but high-tier Patrons, $25 and above per month, are the most royal supporters a dev has (the core group of supporters). They rarely change their tiers compare to low-tiers, who switch tiers between $1 and $25 or cancel their support completely in between updates.

I once tried to get in touch with a $100 supporter but he ignored all my private messages. Same for dev trying to contact him about his custom render request. No response. And he continues to pay $100 each month without saying a word. Another high-tier patron told me that he likes the art and consider his pledge as commission fee for his custom render. And yes, he has a good paying job and pledged already over $1,000 to the dev. A $25 tier patron told me that he supports a few other dev at the same time - each month $400 to $500 in total.

Those guys are the real people who are responsible that devs can continue to work on the game. Upgrading their hardware to create images with more details in it and render faster. Otherwise all games would have grainy renders with less details in it. (However, seeing the high demand for "crunched/compressed" game here I'm not surprised that people are not interested in quality but actually in quantity.) More renders, more updates... Let's be honest here, those guys would also fap to a stick-figure if they ares labeled as "mom" and "son".

Having this first hand experience I think the pirate's accusation of milking/scamming their patrons is no longer valid. Of course they are exceptions for a few special devs, but the majority of devs aren't milker/scammer or lazy.

I suspected that this was the case (that it's the real angel Patrons that funds the game developers) but had little data to support it.
$500-$800 a month for a patron like that is not a lot of money if you make $x00k/year.
Honestly, they just want the dev to do what they do and be successful and they think of themselves as an angel investor.
Their return is (besides the obvious sexual satisfaction) to have the satisfaction of seeing a game they love being developed and successful. That's enough for them - don't need the extra money. Does not matter if the developer is late a few months - they are busy at work anyway. They just want it right.

 

[cold_arctus]

$500-$800 a month for a patron like that is not a lot of money if you make $x00k/year.
Honestly, they just want the dev to do what they do and be successful and they think of themselves as an angel investor.

If I had millions or billions of Euros/Dollars (cash) I would buy a render farm for the dev. Just to make sure that dev can render a gangbang scene within a minute.

Would a render farm shorten the time between updates? I'm not so sure about it. Sure he/they could render faster, but posing + postwork would take the same time as before. Only option to optimize this would be to hire a second artist who as the same skill set, or better, as the original artist.