VN Ren'Py Limitless [Day 6 P4 Completed] [Cr8tive M3dia]

[Master of Puppets]

As mentioned below your post, this won't be just endings... There will be a time skip at some point, however I will add that if you are on LI's path you "Will" knock them up. I have had to do this otherwise when the time comes and we have multiple different women around the table having some pregnant and some not will be a nightmare for me to create all the different renders for all the different outcomes.

That's actually a lot easier than it sounds. You don't need to do renders for every possible permutation (which could potentially reach into the thousands) you need to do two renders, one with all the girls pregnant and one without. Then you use an image editor to cut the girls out and put them into a layered image.

 

[Cr8tive M3dia]

That's actually a lot easier than it sounds. You don't need to do renders for every possible permutation (which could potentially reach into the thousands) you need to do two renders, one with all the girls pregnant and one without. Then you use an image editor to cut the girls out and put them into a layered image.

Yes but since I have allowed for people to be able to choose who they wish to be on their path I could have many different variations of characters within 1 single image, if say we were all around a table, and then on top of that they could be pregnant or not. Also depending on how sizeable their bumps could be (If pregnant), could effect lighting/shadows... obstructions with others who may or may not be pregnant, behind them.. etc.

 

[slick97]

Yes but since I have allowed for people to be able to choose who they wish to be on their path I could have many different variations of characters within 1 single image, if say we were all around a table, and then on top of that they could be pregnant or not. Also depending on how sizeable their bumps could be (If pregnant), could effect lighting/shadows... obstructions with others who may or may not be pregnant, behind them.. etc.

I'm still early in my own playthrough (day 2 atm), but there's what, 8 LI's so far? That's 64 (8^2) images you'd need for a single scene, which is an insane amount of work for why essentially amounts to "flavor" options regardless of whether they're spliced from two base renders.

The only suggestion I'd make is implementing an option of having no pregnancy content at all (similar to Meadow's choice on day 1). I'd imagine it would be far more manageable handling 2 static outcomes rather than a dynamic range of up to 64 combinations.

However, you should take my feedback with a grain of salt as I'm not the one that has to do the render work or coding. If you feel you can add it and make the story work then great! If not? Well, the story is already a pretty interesting adaptation from the original movie that I don't really foresee pregnancy content affecting my overall enjoyment

 

[Cr8tive M3dia]

I'm still early in my own playthrough (day 2 atm), but there's what, 8 LI's so far? That's 64 (8^2) images you'd need for a single scene, which is an insane amount of work for why essentially amounts to "flavor" options regardless of whether they're spliced from two base renders.

The only suggestion I'd make is implementing an option of having no pregnancy content at all (similar to Meadow's choice on day 1). I'd imagine it would be far more manageable handling 2 static outcomes rather than a dynamic range of up to 64 combinations.

However, you should take my feedback with a grain of salt as I'm not the one that has to do the render work or coding. If you feel you can add it and make the story work then great! If not? Well, the story is already a pretty interesting adaptation from the original movie that I don't really foresee pregnancy content affecting my overall enjoyment

Yeah I know this is the thing, it's going to get very complicated for me later on into the game, but I'm willing to do it.... but will have to make it that if you are on someone's path you will end up knocking them up, otherwise it will just make it even more complicated for me. Also this is the 1st city we are in.... we will be going back to our home town at some point in the future.

 

[SlapE]

Yeah I know this is the thing, it's going to get very complicated for me later on into the game, but I'm willing to do it.... but will have to make it that if you are on someone's path you will end up knocking them up, otherwise it will just make it even more complicated for me. Also this is the 1st city we are in.... we will be going back to our home town at some point in the future.

Momma and other sister here we come

 

[Master of Puppets]

Yes but since I have allowed for people to be able to choose who they wish to be on their path I could have many different variations of characters within 1 single image, if say we were all around a table, and then on top of that they could be pregnant or not. Also depending on how sizeable their bumps could be (If pregnant), could effect lighting/shadows... obstructions with others who may or may not be pregnant, behind them.. etc.

Let me start by saying that I want every last one of them pregnant anyway, this is not special pleading for my own preferences.
Just allowing for the girls being present/absent is more than enough to force you to use layered images IMO. You're talking literally dozens of times as many renders if you don't. Sure, things like one girl in front of another does increase the number of renders needed a little bit, but nowhere near as much as doing every possible variation individually does.
And if you are using layered images, then allowing for choice about pregnancy is a bit more work but not exponentially so like if you were doing individual renders. I don't care because like I said I want them all pregnant anyway, but do you really want to turn anyone who doesn't like pregnancy off of the game when pregnancy has been a choice up until now? Pregnancy is not everyone's cup of tea.

I'm still early in my own playthrough (day 2 atm), but there's what, 8 LI's so far? That's 64 (8^2) images you'd need for a single scene, which is an insane amount of work for why essentially amounts to "flavor" options regardless of whether they're spliced from two base renders.

No, it would be 2^8, not 8^2, for 256 possible permutations with eight girls (or not). That's why I say that just allowing them to be present or absent is enough to require layered images. 2^n gets big really fast. When people say "exponential" they often don't actually mean that, they actually mean "quadratic" which is much slower, but this actually is exponential.

 

[slick97]

No, it would be 2^8, not 8^2, for 256 possible permutations with eight girls (or not). That's why I say that just allowing them to be present or absent is enough to require layered images. 2^n gets big really fast. When people say "exponential" they often don't actually mean that, they actually mean "quadratic" which is much slower, but this actually is exponential.

Good catch. I sometimes forget that the base number is the possible choices (in this case: pregant vs not pregnant, OR present vs not present) raised to the number of repetitions (k^n). With the correct math this time around (256 combinations for 1 scene) it would cause a significant workload if Cr8tive M3dia wanted to create more than just 1 scene with all 8 LIs together.

This is strictly a hypothetical:
Let's say there is a plan to have one main scene where all the LIs are present. We'll go towards the conservative end and say that it's a brief conversation with minimal movements between each character where only the character speaking has a visible change in appearance. We could say that all 8 LIs take turns speaking 3 times each, which means there's 24 different renders just for this single conversation. That would mean Cr8tive would need to splice a total of 256*24 = 6,144 images just for this single scene.

I think anyone who doesn't want to impregnate every LI they're romancing aren't setting realistic expectations as this level of complexity hasn't been done before even on the AAA studio level (unless they want to argue that player driven games like Eve Online count, which is another debate entirely). There's a reason most devs stick with binary choices or keeping their stories rather linear, and it's due to the workload required for something that only a small portion of the playerbase would even bother to appreciate.

 

[Master of Puppets]

Good catch. I sometimes forget that the base number is the possible choices (in this case: pregant vs not pregnant, OR present vs not present) raised to the number of repetitions (k^n). With the correct math this time around (256 combinations for 1 scene) it would cause a significant workload if Cr8tive M3dia wanted to create more than just 1 scene with all 8 LIs together.

This is strictly a hypothetical:
Let's say there is a plan to have one main scene where all the LIs are present. We'll go towards the conservative end and say that it's a brief conversation with minimal movements between each character where only the character speaking has a visible change in appearance. We could say that all 8 LIs take turns speaking 3 times each, which means there's 24 different renders just for this single conversation. That would mean Cr8tive would need to splice a total of 256*24 = 6,144 images just for this single scene.

I think anyone who doesn't want to impregnate every LI they're romancing aren't setting realistic expectations as this level of complexity hasn't been done before even on the AAA studio level (unless they want to argue that player driven games like Eve Online count, which is another debate entirely). There's a reason most devs stick with binary choices or keeping their stories rather linear, and it's due to the workload required for something that only a small portion of the playerbase would even bother to appreciate.

Which is exactly why the naive, brute-force way is not how it should be done. Using layered images, instead of k^n renders it becomes just k, with a worst-case of kn. For a scene of 8 girls who may or may not be there and needing 3 poses for each girl who is there, then it goes from 6,144 renders to 4. The very high number of renders for the naive method is not a consequence of pregnancy choice, the exponential numbers already apply just by the possibility of girls being there or not.

 

[Niels Holgersson]

When is the next update coming?

 

[Cr8tive M3dia]

When is the next update coming?

Maybe in around a months time.... don't take that as gospel though as all depends where I decided to finish the update. The section I am working on is very large if you are on certain characters paths... if not on their paths update is very small.

 

[Hairy Pussy Lover]

WTF ???

 

[Cr8tive M3dia]

WTF ???

Surprise.... she has a penis! Nah... my bad, put the wrong code in... funny that hasn't been spotted till now.

Cheers for letting me know, I have amended it now for next time

 

[Cr8tive M3dia]

WTF ???

Judging by your name you are really going to enjoy my scene I'm working on with Mary.

 

[slick97]

Surprise.... she has a penis! Nah... my bad, put the wrong code in... funny that hasn't been spotted till now.

If I remember right, aren't familial relationships determined by the player? It seems to be the common approach lately for devs to skirt around Patreons crackdown on incest.

 

[Cr8tive M3dia]

If I remember right, aren't familial relationships determined by the player? It seems to be the common approach lately for devs to skirt around Patreons crackdown on incest.

They are determined by what you input at the very beginning of the game, However I mixed up the coding in this option and instead of it being down as Libby relationship to you (Sister/Cousin/Roommate)... it was down as mc's relationship to Libby. (Brother/Cousin/Roommate).

 

[TigerWolfe]

They are determined by what you input at the very beginning of the game, However I mixed up the coding in this option and instead of it being down as Libby relationship to you (Sister/Cousin/Roommate)... it was down as mc's relationship to Libby. (Brother/Cousin/Roommate).

Oh variables, you so silly.

You wouldn't be the first dev to make a swap like that.

*quietly shoves entire repo out of sight and under a rug*

 

[Cr8tive M3dia]

Oh variables, you so silly.

You wouldn't be the first dev to make a swap like that.

*quietly shoves entire repo out of sight and under a rug*

It isn't my first error with variables and won't be my last, I can probably guarantee it... With so many variables it is sometimes hard to keep track of what is required to do what.

 

[TigerWolfe]

It isn't my first error with variables and won't be my last, I can probably guarantee it... With so many variables it is sometimes hard to keep track of what is required to do what.

I can definitely commiserate. No hard feelings from me.

 

[Anime34guy]

Any news for day 6 part 2?

 

[kurosx]

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Freigeschaltet

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Hey all,

Thought I would give you another little status update. I will try and do these a little more frequently so you are all kept in the loop as to the progress etc for the next update.

Well the update is progressing nicely. I have completed the first part of the non Mary but on Twins route.. Where she drops the girls off and comes into the kitchen area and chats with the MC before leaving, the twins remain.... I am now working on the route with Mary staying and then I will be working on the twins route.

As you can see from the image, renders are looking a lot better, I believe... I have been working a lot more on improving camera depth of field and also lighting.

I am aiming to have the update out in around a months time.... depending on where I stop with this update. Basically if you are on Mary and Twins route you will have quite a good amount of content. Just Mary route or just Twins route also quite a bit but not as much.... and if you are on neither Mary or Twins route... well, firstly what the hell are you doing?!?!? but... you will have hardly any content as this scene is rather big as long as you are on their routes.

So be warned.