Interestingly, the first gif looks a lot like Krystal.... Mea culpa???? 
- Jun 21, 2017
- 5,613
- 5,556
It's the seldom "storytelling by gameplay" feature. Let us milk you for more cash.
- Mar 11, 2018
- 116
- 161
I know this tends to be a circular comment, but this is where a project manager would come in and figure out how they can get from Zero to Hero while maintaining their "vision" for how the game should go, while creating a schedule of regular updates that show constant progress.
I have a limited knowledge of the story, and I don't want to share any spoilers, but it is a grand epic on par with stuff like KotOR, which is the main vision for where they want to take the game. Party members, more cities, drama, etc etc. The sex part of it is super limited; at least as far as the story is concerned.
And that circles back to the concept of making their game and trying to recoup losses for 0.8. Their version of the game doesn't match what 0.8 aimed to be... so trying to re-create 0.8 seems like a waste of time towards trying to achieve bigger and better goals for the project as a whole.
- Mar 11, 2018
- 116
- 161
Lot to unpack here.
I consider myself a "furry", though I'm hardely all over it, and I much preferred the previous art style as well.
I'm also not a fan of animalistic bits. Like I don't like the dog-gina, and I don't like twin-dicks snake guy, and I just hope they don't fuck up the meaty lizard dick by making it somehow weird and too animalistic. I like my furries with pretty standard human bits.
And next... what you're describing is the 0.8 story. It was a story of corruption, etc etc.
The NEW direction is NOT about corruption really. Your character is very much the hero and nobody is really making her "subserviant" by force or by an extended length of stay. You are, if I recall, doing some chores to pay back the lizard folk for helping you; but then you move on. There isn't really supposed to be a big amount of time spent in the first village as a servant-girl type character. You'll no doubt return as the story dictates, but not as a servant. More as a hero coming in to do hero type stuff and continue the story.
I love the corruption aspect.... but I'm not sure it's in the game's immediate future with the new team. However when I say "immediate", that is a sort of relevant term. It may take months and months to get anywhere, or longer. :|
So you'll want to be super careful here, because I bet it was this exact line of thinking where people said "Wow this shit is EASY AS FUCK, I can totally rebuild everything you did in a WEEK!!!" and then proceeded to fuck it all up and realize all this is significantly harder than any of them had any idea about and here we are... 3 years in with like 2 updates, the last of which had virtually nothing in it.The last update of the game in this thread was made 24 February, 2021, while the restart of the game itself has already taken almost 3 years. During all this time, the project has been collecting about 15-20+ thousand dollars on Patreon in month... No, of course I'm not hinting at anything ... I just outlined a few well-known facts.
But I'll be honest - even though I liked the last update of the game - I don’t think this kind of work is that expensive.
Especially because the developers of such a high class AAA+ (although I don't really understand why they measure their skills with the abbreviation of the battery type) should show much more productive work.
But maybe I just don't understand anything about development, and it's not for me to judge the experts. Well then, I apologize in advance for my message.
When it comes to software, never underestimate how easy it is to make some action happen. Even something stupid like making a main menu when your game starts can take a tremendous amount of time. Want to animate that menu in some way? Oh lordy!!!
However to decompose the core of what you're saying, I don't necessarily think it's "you're not doing enough for the amount of money you're getting", which may be 110% true... but I think it's "you're getting tons of money and not giving us anything in return in the form of game updates".
Sure... looking at pretty pictures is nice, and seeing how animation is coming along is great... but the Patreon is for a VIDEO GAME. This means you need to have VIDEO GAME based updates. If you fail that, it's going to rile people up.
Their golden egg though for Patreon money is that they are still cribbing on Star Fox's Krystal... despite moving as far away as they possibly can from that... just not restarting the Patreon as a new game entirely that's has nothing to do with the character "Krystal". It's a super popular IP still and furries love her... so there's month to be had. But I'm not sure it's totally honest money in regard to this project.
- Mar 11, 2018
- 116
- 161
OOhhh but you totally should.
Weren't we talking about this in another thread when I said that a lot of spine animation as that dead "straight-on" animation style where nobody redraws any of the limbs so everything is animated in such a way where nothing can have depth or change length?
This walk cycle... this is exactly why I dislike bones for a majority of projects done by non-AA level projects and below.
However I will say the boob-job is nice. Looks much better than the walk cycle! But that is also a special animation, and not say... an animation they made with 8-fucking directional movement with paperdoll-fucking clothing. So it's going to be critically important that left-lower-arm never changes shape, because you don't want to redraw left-lower-arm_armor1 through left-lower-arm_armor40 unless you are just asking for pain and suffering in your project.
Same. I prefer human-like penises and vaginas with one exception: I'm pretty partial to horse penises.
I don't know what it is but something is really appealing about their shape.Yeah, I thought so too. The animation is pretty fluid and Krystal's expression is nice. Oh, excuse me. I meant "Kay."
However, "Krystal" was corrupted, and "Kay" seems to enjoy it. Let's hope they don't turn her into an RPGM game type whore.
- May 31, 2018
- 271
- 334
Yes, it really looks a little incomplete, maybe in the future there will be added shadows, glitter, and the like. Well, as for the style ... It's a matter of taste, but perhaps some seriousness of what is happening is really lost. At least in the abandoned version of the game, Krystal was more likely to have anxiety in her eyes (even when she was playful), since this was all new to her. And here she behaves as if it is completely normal for her to suck someone cock.
Therefore, this animation is hardly suitable for the beginning of the game, especially if the authors of the project want to stick to the plot of an abandoned version of the game. But then the question is - why are they doing this animation now, if they don't even have an introductory part of the game? ... Or maybe they have actually finished work on the base part of the game already (but then it's not clear why they still haven't uploaded this update) or they have some pretty serious problems with it and they just try entertain the audience by another type of work... But anyway, sooner or later - all the secret will become clear
Why not? This is quite sexy GIF that motivates to help Krystal with a back massage. Isn't it a great idea for some kind of quest?
Well, even if they receive only 10 thousand each, almost 3 years have passed since the restart of the game, and a very impressive amount would have accumulated anyway. There are excellent indie games that cost much less, and unlike this project, they are complete. What status is this project still in - I will not venture to suggest, but with such a speed of development, everything can drag on for a very long time...
Well, maybe I wanted to show sarcasm a bit more, to be honest, but of course, if we talk about working on really serious game projects, then yes, I have not much experience in developing such projects. However, I have seen how young students and even schoolchildren create their games on the unity engine, including in full 3D (and not always from ready-made assets that are easy to download from the Internet), and far not all of them called themselves professionals.So you'll want to be super careful here, because I bet it was this exact line of thinking where people said "Wow this shit is EASY AS FUCK, I can totally rebuild everything you did in a WEEK!!!" and then proceeded to fuck it all up and realize all this is significantly harder than any of them had any idea about and here we are... 3 years in with like 2 updates, the last of which had virtually nothing in it.
When it comes to software, never underestimate how easy it is to make some action happen. Even something stupid like making a main menu when your game starts can take a tremendous amount of time. Want to animate that menu in some way? Oh lordy!!!
However to decompose the core of what you're saying, I don't necessarily think it's "you're not doing enough for the amount of money you're getting", which may be 110% true... but I think it's "you're getting tons of money and not giving us anything in return in the form of game updates".
Sure... looking at pretty pictures is nice, and seeing how animation is coming along is great... but the Patreon is for a VIDEO GAME. This means you need to have VIDEO GAME based updates. If you fail that, it's going to rile people up.
Their golden egg though for Patreon money is that they are still cribbing on Star Fox's Krystal... despite moving as far away as they possibly can from that... just not restarting the Patreon as a new game entirely that's has nothing to do with the character "Krystal". It's a super popular IP still and furries love her... so there's month to be had. But I'm not sure it's totally honest money in regard to this project.
Technically, all the real difficult parts of work in this project, I can only call an individual drawing (by Kuja), so as the work of the animator.
The rest ... No, it's not easy work, but for example, playing with light, sun shine etc - this feature has long been used in the unity engine. Changing the cycle of day and night, indicators on health, magic, etc. are also often used when creating games on a unity, and the Internet is full of codes and instructions on how to integrate such stuff into the game.
About the complexity of creating a game menu: download sony vegas or affter effects, download several spectacular animation plug-ins, mix them with several pictures (or gifs), add effects... And that's it, the spectacular menu is ready.
So yeah, given the fact that the project still has not much to show and taking into account how many time and money has already been spent on it for the entire time since the restart - it really cost the sponsors a bit to much.
(((But who knows, maybe in a couple of months the developers will show us such an great update of their game that many will be ashamed of everything said earlier.
))
Last edited:
- Mar 11, 2018
- 116
- 161
Good post, though definitely not made from experience of trying to do something like a video game. And that is totally fine, so I'm not saying what you imply is wrong; I'm sure there may be programs out there that allow exactly this work flow.
But you do hit on another aspect, being that so far, anything complex made by the team has mostly been in the art department. A lot of what is here now is in tutorials all over, just search for stuff like Day night cycle or survival game. Putting the art overlay over those can give them a much needed face lift and make it great.
The last version was like a few of random systems thrown together, but nothing super cohesive yet. The most mature piece was the 8-directional movement, which did a great job to showcase art and animation.
To make the dreams come true though, your great artists need great programmers as well. Putting all the art into a video game format takes work and effort. That's a hole that Abelius filled on the last team that seems like it hasn't been sufficiently filled on this new team yet.
Filling that role and making it productive will be the difference between output being pictures and gif files versus being video game content. The programmer can be, ultimately, the hardest role to fill and maintain on a team like this. You can't make a game without a programmer, but you can make one without an artist (it will just be that junky programmer art ).
But you do hit on another aspect, being that so far, anything complex made by the team has mostly been in the art department. A lot of what is here now is in tutorials all over, just search for stuff like Day night cycle or survival game. Putting the art overlay over those can give them a much needed face lift and make it great.
The last version was like a few of random systems thrown together, but nothing super cohesive yet. The most mature piece was the 8-directional movement, which did a great job to showcase art and animation.
To make the dreams come true though, your great artists need great programmers as well. Putting all the art into a video game format takes work and effort. That's a hole that Abelius filled on the last team that seems like it hasn't been sufficiently filled on this new team yet.
Filling that role and making it productive will be the difference between output being pictures and gif files versus being video game content. The programmer can be, ultimately, the hardest role to fill and maintain on a team like this. You can't make a game without a programmer, but you can make one without an artist (it will just be that junky programmer art
).
- May 31, 2018
- 271
- 334
Yes, I probably agree that I did the wrong thing, not mentioning the coders, however, this is not so much difficult, but extremely voluminous work. The code can consist of 100 thousand strings, it can also consist of a million lines, and of course if the person who is trying to do this work cannot even put things in order in his (or her) garage - for him (or her) - this work will be the hardest in life.
But if the coder is a real pro, and he (or she) does everything sequentially, clearing up the mess in code in advance, leaving references to where and what he has in the code (even can be used a full-fledged introduction in the code, like ... * From Line 50121 starts the code responsible for ... * and something like that. And also many other tips for the coder himself can be left in the code.), then such work for him (or her) will be rather voluminous and requiring increased attention than really difficult.
(Although something in a similar manner can be said about the artist or animator as well, so yes, the coder was forgotten not deservedly))
At the expense of the game designer (At least if take game project in this thread into account.) - the artist is responsible for this, because it is he (Kuja) who draws the environment, draws the characters themselves, and the players will see exactly what the artist is painted to show, but sure, if we talk about some much larger and more serious projects, then yes, probably there many people are responsible for the work of the game designer, drawing templates, draft versions of what should be, what the player should see, etc...
Also, if talk about really serious game projects - there can be teams of more than 30-50 people, and at the same time - they all have to work as a whole ... Hmmm... I'm curious, are there games on this forum that such large teams are involved in?
But if the coder is a real pro, and he (or she) does everything sequentially, clearing up the mess in code in advance, leaving references to where and what he has in the code (even can be used a full-fledged introduction in the code, like ... * From Line 50121 starts the code responsible for ... * and something like that. And also many other tips for the coder himself can be left in the code.), then such work for him (or her) will be rather voluminous and requiring increased attention than really difficult.
(Although something in a similar manner can be said about the artist or animator as well, so yes, the coder was forgotten not deservedly
))At the expense of the game designer (At least if take game project in this thread into account.) - the artist is responsible for this, because it is he (Kuja) who draws the environment, draws the characters themselves, and the players will see exactly what the artist is painted to show, but sure, if we talk about some much larger and more serious projects, then yes, probably there many people are responsible for the work of the game designer, drawing templates, draft versions of what should be, what the player should see, etc...
Also, if talk about really serious game projects - there can be teams of more than 30-50 people, and at the same time - they all have to work as a whole ... Hmmm... I'm curious, are there games on this forum that such large teams are involved in?
- Mar 11, 2018
- 116
- 161
You both, naturally, hit on continued good points.
Abelius knows that programming is, ultimately, going to make or break ANY game project. It doesn't matter if you have the best artist and animator the world has ever seen... if you don't have a programming team of equal caliber behind them it's going to not be a great game.
Also we hit on the topic of GAME DESIGNER again, which is very different from Project Management (but could go hand in hand, especially on tiny teams like indies). This the person who looks at "is the game fun" and "does this make sense" and ultimately will be collaging stuff together to make sure there is COHESION of the game both graphically and programatically.
Think of the game designer as a key stakeholder. While they may not be able to bring artistic or programming talent to the table, their contributions help keep both of those teams working together smoothly.
Your game designer should also be champion of the game's design document, making sure that the team is moving towards whatever end goal they wanted to have met, and work with the project manager to make sure nobody is veering off into left field, or spending an inordinate amount of time on some non-essential piece.
The smaller your team gets, the more consolidated these roles can become, and ultimately that means the more knowledgable and professional the people behind those roles are.
This is probably the biggest fear with the game that subscribers and followers should have. It's the concept of "I want to make KotOR!" while their chief experience in that is "I played KotOR and liked it!"
That kind of experience isn't going to help you navigate the unknoqn quandries and events that will pop up during creation of your game. And while adding more people to the team MAY APPEAR like a good idea, unless you have the necessary skills and talent to properly direct those people, it's a practice of the concept of the "MYTHICAL MAN" to a degree. It's the concept where if you add talent to a project, at any point, the mere addition of these people will make the project go faster. A lot of big businesses also fail at this also, so it's a well known pitfall.
MyLittleTrolly talks about code documentation.
This is a hilarious thing that will persist everywhere, and can be good or bad (usually bad/not enough) even in professional settings.
What a coder should TRY to do would be to make self-documenting code. This means that just by reading the code and the variables involved you intuitively know what the code is trying to do. Keep your comments smaller and discrete.
However there are times when programmers try to be Google, and create some hyper-complex algorithm because they want to flex their programmer skills. The worst part of these is later on, like months later, when somebody (even the original developer) has to improve or fix something there... they have NO CLUE what the hell they did. This is where I get out the rolled up newspaper and bap them for being "too smart".
Also in regard to art and game design...
I noted previously that the artwork is all over the place and doesn't necessarily "blend" together. Some characters have color pallets that are way too dark, and some look like they are from an entirely different game. Like the female characters tend to have an almost cartoon quality to them, but their male counterparts tend to be super big and much more "realistically" framed, especially in their heads and eyes.
But it's not just art, it's about interaction as well.
How well does the inventory work?
How intuitive is navigating in that environment the artist built? (I provided an example where using color/shading to denote "clickable" zones that people who play games intuitively "know" is where they can click to move versus where they can't)
Does the game having "survival mechanics" make sense?
How will combat work?
Etc etc. All these should be documented in a design document the team is aware of and building to. The more people you have the more critical this roadmap document becomes because you want team members to know what to aim for.
Hope this is useful. Enjoy.
Abelius knows that programming is, ultimately, going to make or break ANY game project. It doesn't matter if you have the best artist and animator the world has ever seen... if you don't have a programming team of equal caliber behind them it's going to not be a great game.
Also we hit on the topic of GAME DESIGNER again, which is very different from Project Management (but could go hand in hand, especially on tiny teams like indies). This the person who looks at "is the game fun" and "does this make sense" and ultimately will be collaging stuff together to make sure there is COHESION of the game both graphically and programatically.
Think of the game designer as a key stakeholder. While they may not be able to bring artistic or programming talent to the table, their contributions help keep both of those teams working together smoothly.
Your game designer should also be champion of the game's design document, making sure that the team is moving towards whatever end goal they wanted to have met, and work with the project manager to make sure nobody is veering off into left field, or spending an inordinate amount of time on some non-essential piece.
The smaller your team gets, the more consolidated these roles can become, and ultimately that means the more knowledgable and professional the people behind those roles are.
This is probably the biggest fear with the game that subscribers and followers should have. It's the concept of "I want to make KotOR!" while their chief experience in that is "I played KotOR and liked it!"
That kind of experience isn't going to help you navigate the unknoqn quandries and events that will pop up during creation of your game. And while adding more people to the team MAY APPEAR like a good idea, unless you have the necessary skills and talent to properly direct those people, it's a practice of the concept of the "MYTHICAL MAN" to a degree. It's the concept where if you add talent to a project, at any point, the mere addition of these people will make the project go faster. A lot of big businesses also fail at this also, so it's a well known pitfall.
MyLittleTrolly talks about code documentation.
This is a hilarious thing that will persist everywhere, and can be good or bad (usually bad/not enough) even in professional settings.
What a coder should TRY to do would be to make self-documenting code. This means that just by reading the code and the variables involved you intuitively know what the code is trying to do. Keep your comments smaller and discrete.
However there are times when programmers try to be Google, and create some hyper-complex algorithm because they want to flex their programmer skills. The worst part of these is later on, like months later, when somebody (even the original developer) has to improve or fix something there... they have NO CLUE what the hell they did. This is where I get out the rolled up newspaper and bap them for being "too smart".
Also in regard to art and game design...
I noted previously that the artwork is all over the place and doesn't necessarily "blend" together. Some characters have color pallets that are way too dark, and some look like they are from an entirely different game. Like the female characters tend to have an almost cartoon quality to them, but their male counterparts tend to be super big and much more "realistically" framed, especially in their heads and eyes.
But it's not just art, it's about interaction as well.
How well does the inventory work?
How intuitive is navigating in that environment the artist built? (I provided an example where using color/shading to denote "clickable" zones that people who play games intuitively "know" is where they can click to move versus where they can't)
Does the game having "survival mechanics" make sense?
How will combat work?
Etc etc. All these should be documented in a design document the team is aware of and building to. The more people you have the more critical this roadmap document becomes because you want team members to know what to aim for.
Hope this is useful. Enjoy.
The latter is very interesting. If there were already people complaining about carrying the cauldron in the game...
How much is there to look forward to with combat? An enemy appears, you enter into turn-based combat, if you win, you level up and get resources; and if you lose, game over screen that everyone will want to see because they will rape "Kay". I hope not.
How much are we in for with the routines of having to pee? The first time you do it, the second time you pull the "clock" of the game to advance hours. I hope not.
How much is there to look forward to with combat? An enemy appears, you enter into turn-based combat, if you win, you level up and get resources; and if you lose, game over screen that everyone will want to see because they will rape "Kay". I hope not.
How much are we in for with the routines of having to pee? The first time you do it, the second time you pull the "clock" of the game to advance hours. I hope not.
- Dec 9, 2019
- 164
- 269
Well if some gave them any money. I can't blame them for wanting something out of it. Like for example pulling out of their furry hovels their pitch forks and torches and go for some... group activity at those who scammed them.A good number of people in this thread are here for the drama instead of the game itself
And I can enjoy all of this shit storm for free.
- Mar 11, 2018
- 116
- 161
My limited understanding of combat is that it is inspired from knight of the old republic. So I imagine it will be real time where you can queue up your actions based on the skills you've acquired during play and your weapon. And you may be able to pause during combat as well, to switch team members, queue their actions, etc.
Depending on how serious they are about being KoTOR at least.
Also not sure we have info about the survival mechanics outside of food/cooking. Not sure if there is bathroom type stuff.
- Jul 12, 2017
- 1,154
- 1,104
It's been a while since I follow this game's development and pretty sure I missed quite a lot of things... so, in that regard, would any of you kindly tell me what has been going on with the development? I've been following this game since the one that got abandoned and just so happened that while waiting for other games to present their updates and patches, I figured "why not visiting LoK? I wonder what happened to this game."
All I know (and I could be wrong on this matter) is that many of the games that bear the title "Legend of Krystal" has been met with an unfortunate end.
All I know (and I could be wrong on this matter) is that many of the games that bear the title "Legend of Krystal" has been met with an unfortunate end.
Hmm, since the reboot, i need to think hard...
We had a 3d Reboot, which looked controversial*, so it was decided to go back to 2(.5)d
Now we had around 6 month ago or so the Alpha-release from the reboot of the 3d reboot.
Thats it, in terms of development status
*controversial is the most neutral word i could come up with
We had a 3d Reboot, which looked controversial*, so it was decided to go back to 2(.5)d
Now we had around 6 month ago or so the Alpha-release from the reboot of the 3d reboot.
Thats it, in terms of development status
*controversial is the most neutral word i could come up with
- Jul 12, 2017
- 1,154
- 1,104
I see. Apart from the "controversial" 3D reboot, there aren't many things that I missed, right?
I don't think I have the position to ask what happened with the wall of texts (for lack of a better word) I've read back and forth a couple of pages ago...
Anyways, thanks for the information.
No Problem. This thread is so big, you could mean the development goes on since 2 years XD Sorry, my sarcasm is what holds the counterweight for my hope that this project might still be going up some time and we (the ranting part of the thread) have to eat our words and regret our bad mouthing. Sadly, you will only find pieces of what happened to the old version, and the usually back and forth. Nothing new, no time frame or anything. If you want to check the current status of the game, you can either join their Discord or look through their Patreon. Somewhere are also Links to their site and Trello, not sure how updatet they are. As to my understanding, currently they try to redo most of the scenese from the old version 0.8 and are currently in Vanlen stuff (the leather man) Thats my last understanding. However it plays out in the end, I will get my previous patreon pledge out either through a new Krystal game or though the discussions in here
Last edited:
- Mar 11, 2018
- 116
- 161
There is no indicators as to when the next patch will be deployed as far as I'm aware. I believe it is a "when it's ready" type conditional.
However with the way progress has been you're looking at a multi-year long development track. So long as they don't abandon it, I'd guess you are easily looking at between 6-12 years of development work.
This is based on them doing the things they want to do and not deciding to cut corners on entire locations/systems/storylines. That could happen the longer development rolls on, and suddenly you may have some pre-alpha test product deemed "1.0, have fun!" as a way of soft-abandonment without just leaving people hanging.
However with the way progress has been you're looking at a multi-year long development track. So long as they don't abandon it, I'd guess you are easily looking at between 6-12 years of development work.
This is based on them doing the things they want to do and not deciding to cut corners on entire locations/systems/storylines. That could happen the longer development rolls on, and suddenly you may have some pre-alpha test product deemed "1.0, have fun!" as a way of soft-abandonment without just leaving people hanging.