VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 3] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[monkeyqueen]

I mean for what I assume would be the Romeo & Juliette ending, a bad ending, I assume the MC will decide to leave Lacey but without a replacement for her he'll just be miserable and jump off the Cliff, at which point when Lacey will hear about it she'll go there too and jump off too, but as bad as that sound, death is pretty final, so its not worst than the above. I assume you get this one if the MC refuse every relationships with other women.

Bad / Tragic ending" While I'm glad that lydia has adopted my language of Romeo and Juliet ending I'm sticking with my original theory. They will die in a final sex scene that is just like the sex scene at the end of act 1. He strangles her to death and then jumps off the cliff. The MC never confronts the fact that he (not his wife) is his own worst enemy and he consumed by jealousy because it vindicates his anger and he just enjoys abusing her.

MC will choke harder and harder while he rants about how she cucked him once again. She will smile. He will go too far and break her neck and say "how could I do this"? I'm not like this?! And then make his way to the cliff.

Neutral ending: MC leaves Lacey, Lacey goes to Isaac. Kelly and MC marry and MC makes Kelly into a reflection of Lacey.


Why?

Kelly only feels whole when is with her work husband, MC is starting to show Kelly a peek of the blinding rage that drives him.

Isaac is trying to become more like the MC's (false) persona - generous, patient and self sacrificing.

And we have foreshadowing - Isaac dresses up his conquests in Lacey wigs. Lacey mentions the movie Single White Female.

(those who say the prof doesn't use foreshadowing are mistaken)

Neither MC makes any progress in their mental health journey but are stuck with less destructive copies of their former lovers

 

[Cenc]

They will die in a final sex scene that is just like the sex scene at the end of act 1. He strangles her to death and then jumps off the cliff.

Indeed, Chekov's gun cliff has yet to really go off....

Personally I believe the really tragic will probably be more akin to Romeo and Juliette, a case of death by mistake - it's almost poetic -.-

 

[DeviantFun]

I remember there was a discussion about MC having PTSD or not.

My personal speculation is that at the beginning, MC current mental health status was not planned as such, and it is still my belief that the codependancy part was heavily inspired by our local mental health expert posts here.

I think that MC having PTSD has one pretty damning heavy piece of evidence:

 

[monkeyqueen]

I remember there was a discussion about MC having PTSD or not.

My personal speculation is that at the beginning, MC current mental health status was not planned as such, and it is still my belief that the codependancy part was heavily inspired by our local mental health expert posts here.

I think that MC having PTSD has one pretty damning heavy piece of evidence:

I think co dependency is a core theme of the story. But I also think you are right that PTSD will come into effect. It's weird that we know so much about Lacey's childhood that we do about the MC's does Gristle have a mother and father? Probably not because he never calls them so how did he lose them?

Here's a very dark theory. This is an NTR story - how did a kid figure out the sexual abuse angle? Perhaps he actually saw the abuse take place and was traumatized by that

 

[JarrenBlake]

I think co dependency is a core theme of the story. But I also think you are right that PTSD will come into effect. It's weird that we know so much about Lacey's childhood that we do about the MC's does Gristle have a mother and father? Probably not because he never calls them so how did he lose them?

Here's a very dark theory. This is an NTR story - how did a kid figure out the sexual abuse angle? Perhaps he actually saw the abuse take place and was traumatized by that

That is indeed a dark take.

My own thoughts are that the MCs parents are likely just somewhat negligent and they do not have a close relationship (If still alive). Could indeed be that he was raised in the state/foster system as well. Rather than having seen it, we do know that he observed the after effects and planned out his life and behaviors around such with his rules. Making him a secondary victim to Lacy's parental abuse and not just an outside observer.

 

[AL.d]

I remember there was a discussion about MC having PTSD or not.

My personal speculation is that at the beginning, MC current mental health status was not planned as such, and it is still my belief that the codependancy part was heavily inspired by our local mental health expert posts here.

I think that MC having PTSD has one pretty damning heavy piece of evidence:
View attachment 5524674

Maybe he picked it up from here but if he did, it's a wonder he managed to nail it right from the start, without knowing of it. It was my immediate thought as early as the intro flashbacks (and since that's the PC, I wasn't too happy about that). Codependency is very common in toxic relationships. All he'd have to do is just a very basic look into trainwreck relationships and the first terms he'd come across, would probably be codependency, narcissism and maybe issues with BPD partners.

PTSD especially combined with heavy depression, can have dissociative episodes with brief delusions. So it fits what's shown without going into more rare/unlikely conditions.

 

[NewGuy2022]

Read dev's comments about forced scenes and how we have to accept it because MC...loves these two. I'm not even going to comment on their side of "love". I've already said how this dude's pathetic ultra simp behavior, combined with constant trauma dumps regarding another woman, would be a repellent for 99% of women. And somehow he is surrounded by the 1%.

What confuses me is his side of that supposed love and where is it in the game? I can understand Anna, we never see it being developed in the game but we can assume it did during college. And now that he has OK from his mistress, he can act on it.

But with Mia? When, where and how? Like 90% of their one on one interactions are about Lacey. Was that one date, where she talks about her past, and a goodnight (optional) bj all it takes? When did that love develop from his side? During the first cuck lesson? The second? Maybe the third? Or when he was trying to stop her from offering a bag of drugs to his addict wife? Their one on one scenes are almost exclusively about Lacey drama. If anything, most of the scenes where she does something endearing and protective, he is either not present, or not paying attention to her. I guess it follows the standard harem recipe, where characters have a couple interactions with each other and then proclaim eternal love. So we can move on to next pokemon.

Personally, I'd rather see the endings referred to by letters, numbers, or some descriptor ("Harem", etc.). "Good" vs. "horrible" in this story is very subjective and what is "good" for one reader may not be good for another. I get the feeling the endings the author describes as "good" won't be very satisfying for me as the reader.

I don't see a lot of love in this story, either. Loving moments? Sure but no character has shown what I would call consistency with respect to that.

I don't recall much character growth, for that matter. Character changes? Sure. But a series of events showing progress for a player? Not so much.

Maybe that's my true source of frustration with this story (?). No actual direction to any of the major characters; just a Bruce Willis movie-like series of disasters one after the other...

I've never been an author. But it's my understanding that one of the tools authors use is a storyboard supported by timelines to show where the story is headed and to provide road signs, if you will, to help keep the author on the correct path to the ending. I get the feeling this developer doesn't use one and is instead building his aircraft in flight. Perhaps we'll get some clarity about this in the next Act but I feel as if I say that at the end of each Act...

 

[monkeyqueen]

I get the feeling this developer doesn't use one and is instead building his aircraft in flight. Perhaps we'll get some clarity about this in the next Act but I feel as if I say that at the end of each Act...

Why do people keep saying this? The monster was foreshadowed in act 1. Like a mystery novel the author has given clues that could point to different figures. Barty's plan and role hasn't changed since act 1 . . .

I mean the foreshadowing is subtle but it's there. For example - the monster calls the MC the glue that holds the group together and then the linchpin. Christine uses the same metaphor to describe his role in the group.

Abby declares that her intention is tear down the MC. So what happens when everything becomes unglued? Maybe it wasn't a great idea to hack away the linchpin while the trailer was being towed?

That's Act 2 foreshadowing Act 3 and 4

 

[cormac69]

I found another typo. I seriously hope the dev follows this thread. lol
This should be Kelly saying this not Lacey. Cheers!

 

[DeviantFun]

I found another typo. I seriously hope the dev follows this thread. lol
This should be Kelly saying this not Lacey. Cheers! View attachment 5524878 View attachment 5524881

Did you try the patched version?

 

[KseiPo]

It's weird that we know so much about Lacey's childhood that we do about the MC's does Gristle have a mother and father? Probably not because he never calls them so how did he lose them?

My own thoughts are that the MCs parents are likely just somewhat negligent and they do not have a close relationship (If still alive). Could indeed be that he was raised in the state/foster system as well. Rather than having seen it, we do know that he observed the after effects and planned out his life and behaviors around such with his rules. Making him a secondary victim to Lacy's parental abuse and not just an outside observer.

It is mentioned at least twice during the story, that MC's father is in the military and serves in Stuttgart (Germany). And mother is also there with him. At least this is the current state at the moment of the story. Where they were when MC was a child - this is not known.

 

[funnythings3785]

You do know 'conditioning' is from a narrative perspective its what we call character development, do you think you are who you are nowadays without having been conditioned heavily to become it? You are conditioned by your parents to think some way, conditioned by your peers to think some way, conditioned by your education to think some way, conditioned by your entertainment to think some way, conditioned by the media to think some way, conditioned by the government to think some way, etc... and that include being conditioned by your partner to behave in a way which is more appreciable for them, if you think otherwise you are naive, you are fundamentally conditioned against your will by so many different forces in the world to be what you are now, and if you think all those forces do it in support of your current leanings, nope, if you think they do it for your benefice, nope.

The point is you see any changes to the character personality induced by anyone else as 'conditioning' well yea but if you think its abnormal you have lived in a cave for a very long time. Its how society has and will always work at anywhere from the micro level to macro level. Its life as a human being. Sure every now and then a change is born out of self reflection, but that is a minority of the changes someone undergoes in their life, the majority are induced by external forces.

You can complain about this, but what are you doing in real life? Have you taken to activism to change the world? Or do you just either accept or escape reality in fiction? Their is a reason the world is shit, because 99% of the population have been conditioned to ignore the fundamental issues that afflict society, so they just stand by as everything goes to Hell. If you expect fictional stories to be any different you ignore the fact that all fictions are based to some degree in reality.

Anyhow if at the end the MC agree of his own free will to be in a NTS relationship with Lacey, because thru this story his mindset on the subject has been changed, well it is what it is, its character growth, just not in the direction you like it. And before you think I am a fan of NTS, I am not, I am not arguing all of this because the idea of the MC & Lacey being in a NTS relationship makes me wet, it doesn't, I am for effectively in for a harem ending, aka 'big family', you can say it doesn't match the MC & Lacey's personality, but it doesn't really matter when their mindset on things have been changing all along the story, Hell Lacey is just about there in Act 3, after hearing Veronica talk about wanting a big family, she seem to like this idea, so she obviously is getting there, the MC will probably be there by the end of Act 4 after having a major mental breakdown as we can expect at this point for him to have.

As they say the road to Hell is paved with good intentions and its quite possible that by Act 5 the two of them will have progressed from being willing to go for a 'big family' to being able to accept the idea of each others fucking other people, allowing for NTS to be justifiable within the story.

Look if you go in any stories with the notion that the characters are going to remain static from start to the end, well you missed the point of having a story. If you say its some fundamental aspect of them, sure maybe at the start, and its why they are undergoing significant emotional upheavels, as a force that cause a change in their personality, you ignore all those stories where the character start one way and end the opposite way by the end, its very common for the coward or shy to become brave its a very typical idea. Do you think this happen just because of the character having self reflection? Or because the narrative force the MC to face a reality they aren't able to handle and which they are driven by external forces to change to be able to deal with?

Now don't worry if you are incapable of handling anything except pure vanilla, you'll probably get something passable as an ending and you'll be able to ignore everything else, an ending which ignore much of the story's character development and try to revert everything back to a shadow of what it was at the start, likely with neither characters quite satisfied because the narrative will have changed them to not quite fit that mold anymore.

I think AL.d summed up my point on this pretty clearly. A sound mind, one that has its own ability to discern, evaluate, and make decisions under normal circumstances isn't "conditioned" (in the sense that we are discussing here) they are offered an alternate view to which they can choose.

I won't get into all the numerous "conditioning" you mentioned because I think you are lumping them all together without respect to their situation, circumstance, and individual responsibility.

As it concerns the story, as AL.d pointed out, the MC is not in a state to "evaluate" such things under normal circumstances. They are driven by mental issues that essentially FORCE him to concede to the demands. Whether it is intentional and knowing, is up for debate, but Lacey IS abusing the MC in this manner.

This is NOT ok, this is pure abuse, pure psychological manipulation taking advantage of the MCs state. Anything Lacey "achieves" while convincing him to go against his initial reactions is... detrimental to him and honestly... this is where I come out with my mean "Pull out the woodchipper" comments. Anyone who would take advantage of another in such a mental state as this... deserves it.

As I said, the MC does not want this, does not seek this, rallies against it, makes it quite clear this is not what he approves of... so if by continued "pounding" this "conditioning" into him, a continued manipulation of his mental state (ie fear of losing Lacey) is used to achieve this, seriously... there is not a death gruesome enough IMO for someone that would do such.

 

[JarrenBlake]

It is mentioned at least twice during the story, that MC's father is in the military and serves in Stuttgart (Germany). And mother is also there with him. At least this is the current state at the moment of the story. Where they were when MC was a child - this is not known.

Thank you for the reminder on that. I really could not recall the parental situation for the MC. So then I will go with my original thought in that it was more negligence. The father could have been absent due to assignment leaving mother to raise him solo for long periods of time. But I do not get the sense that they are very close. High life just does not seem to reflect that being the case.

 

[NewGuy2022]

I think AL.d summed up my point on this pretty clearly. A sound mind, one that has its own ability to discern, evaluate, and make decisions under normal circumstances isn't "conditioned" (in the sense that we are discussing here) they are offered an alternate view to which they can choose.

I won't get into all the numerous "conditioning" you mentioned because I think you are lumping them all together without respect to their situation, circumstance, and individual responsibility.

As it concerns the story, as AL.d pointed out, the MC is not in a state to "evaluate" such things under normal circumstances. They are driven by mental issues that essentially FORCE him to concede to the demands. Whether it is intentional and knowing, is up for debate, but Lacey IS abusing the MC in this manner.

This is NOT ok, this is pure abuse, pure psychological manipulation taking advantage of the MCs state. Anything Lacey "archives" while convincing him to go against his initial reactions is... detrimental to him and honestly... this is where I come out with my mean "Pull out the woodchipper" comments. Anyone who would take advantage of another in such a mental state as this... deserves it.

As I said, the MC does not want this, does not seek this, rallies against it, makes it quite clear this is not what he approves of... so if by continued "pounding" this "conditioning" into him, a continued manipulation of his mental state (ie fear of losing Lacey) is used to achieve this, seriously... there is not a death gruesome enough IMO for someone that would do such.

And THIS is why I continue to say I have serious reservations with accepting that a given ending is "good". For anyone to remain in a relationship without genuine consent (conditioned or coerced "consent" doesn't count for me) would not be good.

 

[NewGuy2022]

Yo, hold up, buddy. So, about this poll you're bringing up... does that actually mean the Professor is currently grinding away on a new update for this game? That's wild

I certainly hope not. Polls in AVNs seem to end up promoting the same narrow set of tags.

 

[funnythings3785]

It is repeated often, I think the most CLEAR CUT would be this.

L "Honestly though, my preference would be that you don't share me."



I think this hits both points.

L "This is another thing that we see differently."
L "Me doing this for you, feels like I'm giving you a gift of love and trust."
L "I want you to feel like a king."
L "I've tried to explain this to you before."
L "But I'd feel you doing something like this means you've stopped loving me as much."
L "It means you don't want to protect me or keep me to yourself anymore."
L "I'd be really worried about our marriage."
L "I do this because making you feel good about yourself makes me happy."
L "The other way around means I'm just some whore you're passing around."
L "I like it that we're so different."

L "you are going to do something you've never done before."
L "Something you never got to experience."
L "I want you to start dating other women."

But lets be clear, Lacey would obey MC without a word if he asked her to be shared (even if then she complains about some RP talk, I guess she could complain a bit) just check the slut path act 1, it is pretty long so I won't paste it.

Also, what people miss, is that Lacey has a mixed agenda with the "love experiment".
She wants to give back to MC the years lost, in terms of experiences, even if then the game keeps on insisting on the sexual part, but she also wants MC to punish her (no not because she is a secret masochist) but because she feels an enormous amount of guilt towards him.

L "The whole open relationship thing?"
L "I am not trying to turn you into me."
L "I want you to date other women, so you can feel more confident."
L "So, you can experience the things you missed out on."
L "And so you can hurt me."
L "So you can make me feel jealous."
L "Because I think you need that."
L "I think you need to put me in my place so that you can work through all this."
L "It's not going to be fun for me."
L "I am extremely jealous of you and the women around you."
L "I've made that abundantly clear."

And a nice piece of bonus for all of you just to remember my beloved and accountable act 2 Lacey:

L "I did all these things because..."
L "Because I decided that being a sex toilet was more important than my love for you."
L "Because I decided that being a drug addict was more important than sending you a text."
L "Because I decided to embrace being a worthless object."
L "Because I didn't care enough about what we used to have to try to figure out what you were going through."
L "All I cared about was doing anything and everything I could to destroy the old me."
L "Because I was selfish."
L "Because I hated myself."
L "But most of all..."
L "Because I was not a good person."

It think all of that is extremely important when various progressions for kinks are considered as well as the overall mindset of the characters in how they view these various things.

The MC is considered the "prude" or "inexperienced" in all of this, and some might suggest that this is the "reasoning" to "open him up" to such experiences (Lacey says this), but the reality is... some people just don't view things that way, don't see that as normal or healthy regardless of what "reasoning" may be given.

I would posit, neither does Lacey... as it is obvious by the writing that she also sees this activity as harmful (she notes in how she feels, how she sees him feel in various dialogue).

So we know the MC's position, this one is easy. Lacey? We see by her past behavior, and various "indiscretions" that she may think otherwise, but then... Lacey over and over "says" otherwise (shows remorse and regret when she breaks and is pushed to to it) AND she displays the person who validates this by her own actions when the MC partakes in those activities Lacey did.

So does the traditional NTS trope make sense in this? Does sharing in anyway improve the MC or Lacey for that matter? I could understand if Lacey was cheering at the sidelines when the MC poked the girls, and praised him, asking for all the details when he did his deeds, as well as going on about how she is excited to partake in this eventually... but does she? Does she show the personality of someone who approves of this lifestyle? I don't think so.

In fact, she gets JEALOUS, often... and not simply jealous, but sad, and VINDICTIVE, willing to bring about extreme pain to the MC when he does these "sanctioned" actions.

Why? I don't know... the writing is confusing... at times... I think Lacey does it on purpose so she can get her Cuck kink fulfilled and it makes me think this is all a ploy to "condition" the MC to that eventual result, but... on the other side I also see dialogue that displays remorse for everything, her past, her actions, her pushing of the MC and the whole situation in itself.

All I can say is... I am confused.

 

[funnythings3785]

View attachment 5522771

This is what she could have been... and I really think it is touching... but she is still speaking in abstract means. She still is not this to him. The picture isn't representative of the Lacey now, it is what she "sees" that she should have been, yet again... she still doesn't realize that she has had ample chances to be this when she came back, and to this date... "still" has not provided this version of herself to him.

She is like an addict talking about how things will be once they "get clean", all the while failing at the work to get clean.

I like it, it is a lovely gesture, but keep in mind that this picture was painted just before she got finished painting the dicks of her past "fucks" in a room of the house her husband is living in knowing he has a very strong chance of encountering the horror of the situation (without her information to clarify her intent, or asking for his position on it) under the conditions that he... just accept that she is doing things without his knowing, with the understanding of how damaging this would be to him if he were to find out (and how damaging it is to ask him of this in the first place).

The MCs reaction was pure... "self insert" writing. That is, Lacey needed to heal, Lacey got her progression and the MC was "force wrote" into the story to accept it, stand and wait, listen intently while the dialogue played out obvious sexually intended references.... in order to allow her to become the "victor" over her issues... while he... well... "cucked out" listening intently as if any of the "details" really mattered when you consider the state of the situation and her actions.

She may have been well intending, I get that... but FFS... really? Her being able to play her whole "healing" act out was simply because the MC has been beaten down, destroyed, confused, etc... to the point of being irrational.

Maybe this is also a reason he broke? The absurdity of it all...

The only complaint I have about it all is that these "conflicts" aren't mentioned at all... but... I guess this could be reasoned to him simply... not... giving... a shit anymore. Just... a subconscious realization that he lives in clown world and just breaks.

 

[Lady Lydia]

It think all of that is extremely important when various progressions for kinks are considered as well as the overall mindset of the characters in how they view these various things.

The MC is considered the "prude" or "inexperienced" in all of this, and some might suggest that this is the "reasoning" to "open him up" to such experiences (Lacey says this), but the reality is... some people just don't view things that way, don't see that as normal or healthy regardless of what "reasoning" may be given.

I would posit, neither does Lacey... as it is obvious by the writing that she also sees this activity as harmful (she notes in how she feels, how she sees him feel in various dialogue).

So we know the MC's position, this one is easy. Lacey? We see by her past behavior, and various "indiscretions" that she may think otherwise, but then... Lacey over and over "says" otherwise (shows remorse and regret when she breaks and is pushed to to it) AND she displays the person who validates this by her own actions when the MC partakes in those activities Lacey did.

So does the traditional NTS trope make sense in this? Does sharing in anyway improve the MC or Lacey for that matter? I could understand if Lacey was cheering at the sidelines when the MC poked the girls, and praised him, asking for all the details when he did his deeds, as well as going on about how she is excited to partake in this eventually... but does she? Does she show the personality of someone who approves of this lifestyle? I don't think so.

In fact, she gets JEALOUS, often... and not simply jealous, but sad, and VINDICTIVE, willing to bring about extreme pain to the MC when he does these "sanctioned" actions.

Why? I don't know... the writing is confusing... at times... I think Lacey does it on purpose so she can get her Cuck kink fulfilled and it makes me think this is all a ploy to "condition" the MC to that eventual result, but... on the other side I also see dialogue that displays remorse for everything, her past, her actions, her pushing of the MC and the whole situation in itself.

All I can say is... I am confused.

The problem that isn't contend with here is that humans aren't mostly straight forward, 'do as I say, not as I do' is a pretty common pattern, people can have desires that are actively opposite to each others, so yes while Lacey like to make her husband feel jealous, and she won't hesitate to push courses of actions that cause him to feel horribly jealous, at the same time she doesn't want to hurt him, so she feel terrible about it later.

In the same way no matter how much she love her husband she might desire sexual activities with other men, she might not want to be shared aka be given away by her husband, but she has no issue with herself reaching out to other men to do things of a sexual nature, she can feel bad about it later because she realize she caused harm to the love her husband as for her, but all those things are possible none the less at the same time.

Contradictions are perfectly natural in humans, which is also why saying 'oh that character has this mindset' isn't a good justification against them acting differently because humans are not animals, they aren't one dimensional creatures from a mental point of view, humans are driven by 3 factors, instincts, emotions, and intellect, many people here assume those characters operate on a one dimensional basis where they can only be one thing, but as I said their are three different pulls on a human at the same time and that is merely on a mentally healthy human, on someone whose mind as been broken, the emotions and intellect can have exploded and they find themselves under far more pulls as their mental issues causes vast shift in either emotions or intellect at various time. So whatever mindset characters can have can change based on those shifting flows of emotions and intellect.

The only aspect of humans that is straight forward are instincts, millions upon millions of years went into molding human instincts to what they are and the short amount of time since civilization as begun isn't enough to have changed that fundamental aspect of humanity yet, and instincts don't care for emotions nor intellect, the two others are the ones that have to react to the instincts not the other way around.

 

[funnythings3785]

The problem that isn't contend with here is that humans aren't mostly straight forward, 'do as I say, not as I do' is a pretty common pattern, people can have desires that are actively opposite to each others, so yes while Lacey like to make her husband feel jealous, and she won't hesitate to push courses of actions that cause him to feel horribly jealous, at the same time she doesn't want to hurt him, so she feel terrible about it later.

In the same way no matter how much she love her husband she might desire sexual activities with other men, she might not want to be shared aka be given away by her husband, but she has no issue with herself reaching out to other men to do things of a sexual nature, she can feel bad about it later because she realize she caused harm to the love her husband as for her, but all those things are possible none the less at the same time.

Contradictions are perfectly natural in humans, which is also why saying 'oh that character has this mindset' isn't a good justification against them acting differently because humans are not animals, they aren't one dimensional creatures from a mental point of view, humans are driven by 3 factors, instincts, emotions, and intellect, many people here assume those characters operate on a one dimensional basis where they can only be one thing, but as I said their are three different pulls on a human at the same time and that is merely on a mentally healthy human, on someone whose mind as been broken, the emotions and intellect can have exploded and they find themselves under far more pulls as their mental issues causes vast shift in either emotions or intellect at various time. So whatever mindset characters can have can change based on those shifting flows of emotions and intellect.

The only aspect of humans that is straight forward are instincts, millions upon millions of years went into molding human instincts to what they are and the short amount of time since civilization as begun isn't enough to have changed that fundamental aspect of humanity yet, and instincts don't care for emotions nor intellect, the two others are the ones that have to react to the instincts not the other way around.

There is always choice and consequence. The rationalization of a choice is irrelevant, only the consequence of them when it comes due. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

If Lacey is caught between lifestyles and refuses to choose, there will be consequence and unfortunately, all too often in life, the consequence isn't always to the one who makes the choice, it is often paid at the expense of others.

 

[monkeyqueen]

Why? I don't know... the writing is confusing... at times... I think Lacey does it on purpose so she can get her Cuck kink fulfilled and it makes me think this is all a ploy to "condition" the MC to that eventual result, but... on the other side I also see dialogue that displays remorse for everything, her past, her actions, her pushing of the MC and the whole situation in itself.

All I can say is... I am confused.

When you are confused - unsure how to interpret the story - there are two options:

1. The writing is bad
2. You need another theory to interpret the well written story

All of us interpret stories. The easiest way to refer to the trope. The "typical" NTR story is sociopath bull (like Barty) and seemingly innocent but truly terrible wife. If you want a prototypical version so extreme that it's a parody of the genre try Lending my NTR girlfriend. And because that is the "NTR" story you want see you read this one it through that set of glasses. Of course the NTR story is itself just a encapsulation of stories that run through mass culture.

BUT this author tells us he deviating from the trope - so what now?

Just as an experiment try the "frog" theory when interpreting the game. Lacey will agree anything said by a sufficiently angry MC. ANYTHING. If the MC demanded that she acknowledge that she is a frog she would agree. So you need to take her "I'm selfish" etc statements with a big grain of salt. (1)

Also understand that she is not fully aware of her motivations. I mean who isn't just a little selfish? Get rid of all selfishness and you don't take of yourself.

Her motives are mixed. She does want to make the MC jealous because that feeds into her "jealousy kink" but she also sincerely wants to get the MC to a place where he can accept all parts of her and that would be good for both of them. Unfortunately, the madness of both gets in the way. They aren't really a shark and a remora - they are two lampreys feeding off one another; neither of them understand this nor their motivations. Lacey doesn't understand that she is not always the one at fault, the MC is just starting to understand that he simply likes having something to hold over Lacey's head.

I honestly believe that a formal BDSM relationship could be a good ending for them. The MC would learn control - if you are going to do "breath play" you don't do it in way that could kill someone. Lacey could learn to satisfy her masochistic desires inside the bedroom and not to spread them to the rest of her life.

(Lacey, if you are reading this - keep those feelings for red bra night)

Then try different theories - "how would I interpret this if the narrator has PTSD" or depression. or multiple personality disorder. or if the character is a sadist? or a masochist? or a narcissist? Then test yourself - where does your theory fall apart? Be sure to apply each theory to both the MC and FMC.

And then get meta - how is this being written? What sort of literary tools is the author using?

You will eventually need multiple theories to get the game.

You know my answer to the queston about why Lacey seems to not approve of a "sharing" lifestyle even while pursuing one. Her college "sharing" days were an excercise in self abuse. She hates herself for being the person who has to stab herself with pencils to feel good. She hates herself for being the person who needs red bra night to feel sane. She hates herself because her dad told her she was worthless. She hates herself because the man she loves most needs her to hate herself. She hates herself because of internalized prudish norms: "good" people don't have sex with multiple partners.

For both MCs it is impossible to separate approval / disaproval or pleasure / pain - the milk is already in the coffee and can't be taken out.


(1) But wait! You say: You are just ignoring huge parts of the text if you say that. And to that I say: so is everyone who ignores the MC when he says he is wrong to feel betrayed by Lacey's college days because they were never together. You are ignoring the MC when he says that he is the problem. You are ignoring the MC when he says that he is the selfish one. You are ignoring the MC when he acknowledges that he can't forgive because he likes holding things above Lacey's head. Or that he is a bad person. Why is that - why dismiss the statements made by one character but accept the statements made by another?

Lacey: "because I'm a bad person"
MC: "Do you know why I'm such a bad person?"

Now I have my answers but I would be interested in hearing what you come up with after trying different theories on for size.

Again, my point is interpretation is inevitable but knowing *what* theory you are using makes you a better reader