VN Ren'Py Abandoned Midlife Crisis [v0.34 - v0.1 Dark] [Nefastus Games]

[Count Morado]

And condensed, I get it. You don't want people "bitching" or talking about their opinions on how Nef is handling himself or his project in a negative light, because it feeds the trolls, and gives them power to insult him... is what you said in a nutshell. And that we should show him empathy. I also get that.
How bout, just for you, I will stop "bitching" about the negativity? And try to not "fan the flames of entitlement"? I draw the line at empathy, because I don't know the dude, but I will TRY to not be such a negative Nancy, just for your pretty-little face, Count.

Your saccharine and sarcasm are dripping all over the place. Though, I'll hold you to your word, your promise to try. But I wouldn't be surprised if you divert or avoid to keep your promise that someone might not decide it was time to share their opinion on how you handle your self or too hold you in a negative light. I'll try a little empathy, though.

 

[Mahony]

I've a massive pet peeve about people with the attitude you see here with people saying "you can't complain here because people play the game for free here", like complaining about someones unprofessionalism doesn't become invalidated because you (potentially) don't pay for the product. I was a pledge of Nef and I unsubscribed a while back because the gaps between updates and the consistent late releases were getting on my nerves, my criticism of his unprofessionalism isn't suddenly invalidated because I ended my subscription.

If Activation were consistently late on their deliveries and people complained and stopped paying for Activation products the complaints aren't invalidated.

 

[JackMiejov]

If Activation were consistently late on their deliveries and people complained and stopped paying for Activation products the complaints aren't invalidated.

What is Activation (referenced twice)? Do you mean "Activision"?

 

[Cartageno]

I've a massive pet peeve about people with the attitude you see here with people saying "you can't complain here because people play the game for free here", like complaining about someones unprofessionalism doesn't become invalidated because you (potentially) don't pay for the product. I was a pledge of Nef and I unsubscribed a while back because the gaps between updates and the consistent late releases were getting on my nerves, my criticism of his unprofessionalism isn't suddenly invalidated because I ended my subscription.

If Activation were consistently late on their deliveries and people complained and stopped paying for Activation products the complaints aren't invalidated.

There is a difference in phrasing though.

"The update frequency is too low to keep me interested let alone support the dev" - vaild opinion.

"The dev is a fucking milker who needs to give us the update now" - entitled crybaby.


The difference with Activision by the way is that classic game developers often sell a product. And as with any other product you may expect a certain level of quality. Devs on Patreon do not sell products. Also, unless you paid before, a delayed publish also would be no valid reason for complaint, let alone for not paying when it was published. For unhappiness, maybe. For not taking their word seriously in the future, sure. But even there is no reason to "not pay anymore".

 

[Kukipett]

Devs on Patreon do not sell products

Hmmmm !! they don't sell product, but they sometimes get a lot of money, Summertime Saga for example was getting about 75 000 a month and it was estimated that the infamous ICS.. was getting between 20000 to 40000.
Our Nefastus has only about 400 patrons that must give him about 1000-2000 $ a month.
And Patreon has a policy that say that you have to give some content and not just promises.

So you can create a game and choose to be completely free and to not have a Patreon, but the moment you go for it, you have to actually give something and not disapear when you cant deliver it.

I'm ok with someone who is late and just says the truth, i'm my self an entrepreneur and i have to care for my customers or i will end up in bankrupcy!!

Last year when he disapered for three month and came back telling us he had been seriously sick, i honestly believed him, but now i start to think that he just told us lies. He is repeating the same trick again it seems.

I don't really care about this, i pledged for 1$ so it's not a big deal to wait but i think that i at least deserve an honest attitude from him. If he comes back in a few days with some explanation about his health or ISP issues, i don't even want to know about it. All i need is just a message saying "I have some difficulties, you will have to wait a little longer".
It's just to show that he cares about the people who give him some money to help him developing his game, nothing less nothing more.

 

[The Wicked One]

Your saccharine and sarcasm are dripping all over the place. Though, I'll hold you to your word, your promise to try. But I wouldn't be surprised if you divert or avoid to keep your promise that someone might not decide it was time to share their opinion on how you handle your self or too hold you in a negative light. I'll try a little empathy, though.

Oh, did you detect that? Because I was laying it on pretty heavy there, Sherlock.
I will definitely try, County, just for you, to not shed so much negative light on Nef; damn fool gets enough of it on all fronts. But I am sure it comes with the territory of being an artist. You'll always have your negative-Nancys.... However, if someone wants an update from the Patreon or Discord fronts, I will let them know.

 

[hcguy]

And Patreon has a policy that say that you have to give some content and not just promises.

I'd be curious to see the wording of this, because I cannot find it in the Patreon Terms of Use.

Any patron has the ultimate recourse of stopping their support, but I don't think there is some requirement to produce something.

 

[Immunity]

As much as I'm looking forward to this next release, at this point I'm almost looking forward to what this next excuse will be even more. Granted, he kinda prefaced this one with the "internet issues" card, which is plausible and gives him an easy out, but I'm putting my money on "Internet issues and my work called me in". Someone should get a pool going and we can all take a spot on the board. It'd be a fun way to pass the time in the interim.

 

[Vodokk]

I'd be curious to see the wording of this, because I cannot find it in the Patreon Terms of Use.

Any patron has the ultimate recourse of stopping their support, but I don't think there is some requirement to produce something.

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The only thing that you can do is unpledge and tick the option "The creator isn't delivering what was promised" on the survey. I'd imagine a sufficient amount of those answers might get a creator suspended. Alternatively sufficient amounts of refund requests/chargebacks will have a similar effect.

BTW I hope my post doesn't get deleted for "instigating bullying" or something. Really like you Nef and your sense of humour, even though I'm a filthy pirate I hope you can deliver the game soon. Good luck!

 

[Count Morado]

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The only thing that you can do is unpledge and ticking the option "The creator isn't delivering what was promised" on the survey. I'd imagine a sufficient amount of those answers might get a creator suspended. Alternatively sufficient amounts of refund requests/chargebacks will have a similar effect.

BTW hope my posts doesn't get deleted for "instigating bullying" or something. Really like you Nef and your sense of humour, even though I'm a filthy pirate I hope you can deliver the game soon. Good luck!

Except that you missed the part that at no point on Nef's Patreon does he promise a game in exchange for your membership. Early access to a general release is promised. When he is late, as long as he follows his promises of early access link, he has met the terms. Also - if no release, no early access - still promise kept.



A creator "can" offer merchandise in exchange for the subscription, but is not required. A patreon "may" receive special benefits, but the creator has no obligation to, per Patreon policies.

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[Kukipett]

Except that you missed the part that at no point on Nef's Patreon does he promise a game in exchange for your membership. Early access to a general release is promised. When he is late, as long as he follows his promises of early access link, he has met the terms. Also - if no release, no early access - still promise kept.

View attachment 1687544

A creator "can" offer merchandise in exchange for the subscription, but is not required. A patreon "may" receive special benefits, but the creator has no obligation to, per Patreon policies.

View attachment 1687552 View attachment 1687553

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Yes you are not forced to produce a game, some art or anything, it's a kind of sponsorship but Patreon incite you to give your patrons some benfits. It's a system based on reputation, if many patrons complain that the author is not active and doesn't follow that rule the account can be terminated. Patreon doen't want to be seen as a scam technique.
Patreon exist to support creators by giving us a way to give them some money, but don't be naive, Patreon takes a share of that money and so their interest is to make people pay as much as possible.
Actually Patreon is used by a lot of content creators to "sell" their work they could not sell easily in another way.
Beeing published by a company is very hard, so Patreon is the best way.
Of course the basic idea was to help artists and anyone who comes up with a project, but now it's mostly just an easy way to sell your junk!!

 

[UncleFredo]

Except that you missed the part that at no point on Nef's Patreon does he promise a game in exchange for your membership. Early access to a general release is promised. When he is late, as long as he follows his promises of early access link, he has met the terms. Also - if no release, no early access - still promise kept.

View attachment 1687544

A creator "can" offer merchandise in exchange for the subscription, but is not required. A patreon "may" receive special benefits, but the creator has no obligation to, per Patreon policies.

View attachment 1687552 View attachment 1687553

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While Patreon might decide for any number of reasons to penalize a developer for a gross failure of the type you describe, they face little liability.

As I have pointed out numerous times. Patronage is a gift to someone not a contract for performance or delivery. The patron supports the artist and is not a purchaser. Now there are probably instances where a developer says, for a $xx contribution I will send you an item, like a render or something. Patreon doesn't bind it, but there are any number of laws that probably do. However, if the developer fails to deliver the only recourse would be to sue. As if that makes any sense.

I'm amazed at how few patrons actually understand their true relationship to those whom they sponsor.

 

[Count Morado]

While Patreon might decide for any number of reasons to penalize a developer for a gross failure of the type you describe, they face little liability.

I am not certain in what facet you mean.

What I mean is that if Patreon removed a major revenue stream for a creator on their site in a manner which is found later to be unjustified, then yes, a creator has the option to proceed with a legal complaint for compensation of damages from Patreon due to the loss of income from the suspension. That is the liability that I mean. Would it be wise for a creator to attempt - not unless they have deep pockets or an actionable issue which could rise to the level of a class action.

EDIT: except for my clarification of the liability I mentioned, I firmly agree with everything else in your post.

 

[bobby newport 123]

Glad to see this subject is coming to a conclusion... perhaps we need a new talking point - everyone excited for the new F1 season?

 

[SoldLost9]

Glad to see this subject is coming to a conclusion... perhaps we need a new talking point - everyone excited for the new F1 season?

Hell yeah I am!!!

 

[satirious]

 

[Krynh]

Update from Nefastus: full game upload failed, update only upload didn't fail. Links coming soon with .28 update then Android (patched).

 

[Turret]

Update from Nefastus: full game upload failed, update only upload didn't fail. Links coming soon with .27 update then Android (patched).

While it sucks a bit for those who want to test the full game, as long as the .28 update comes out, everything is fine. I find it great that I only have to download the new update, not the whole game again.

 

[Krynh]

While it sucks a bit for those who want to test the full game,

? They can just download the full game and then the update files anyway. There's nothing special about the complete build.

 

[The Wicked One]