All right. Cool. Whatever. This "discussion" is getting way too heated to continue. And it'll all be for naught when it gets tagged for off topic anyway. You all have a good one.
- Thread starter monroe
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- Sep 22, 2020
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- Dec 8, 2021
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It means that the dev is not able to communicate properly, or extremly slow on development if he comunicates, and serves as a warning that it's not safe to support him, because he can't be trusted to act responsible, since he cant even take 10 minutes to post something on Patreon, so I'd say the Abandoned tag means plenty, rules are clear, and I'd even say they're too good for the dev, 3 months of taking money but not even telling people what's up is too much.
- Apr 13, 2020
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For situations like this where the dev has gone quiet, I think there should be a tag called "Ghosted" or "AFK" or "MIA". Anything but Abandoned as that's too vague and to some degree... terminal in terms of support for some devs.
Also, not everyone has a singular mindset of posting on every site just to keep everyone happy. He's active on Discord and maybe he thinks that should be enough since maybe that's where the majority of his Patreon users hang out for info and whatnot and maybe he thinks "who gives a crap about pirates and what they think he should do to avoid a tag that doesn't make sense".
Just saying.
Also, not everyone has a singular mindset of posting on every site just to keep everyone happy. He's active on Discord and maybe he thinks that should be enough since maybe that's where the majority of his Patreon users hang out for info and whatnot and maybe he thinks "who gives a crap about pirates and what they think he should do to avoid a tag that doesn't make sense".
Just saying.
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- Oct 5, 2017
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If the word doesn't mean anything, why should the tag not be "Marmalade"? If the word used doesn't have to be accurate or not, and everyone is expected to look everything up in the site rules rather than expect the tags to mean what they say, after all...
- Sep 28, 2018
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Nefastus vanishing isn't that unusual, he's done it before. So more than likely this isn't actually abandoned.
People take the abandoned tag iteral, which causes more issues than it's worth. People think abandoned means the game is dead, the dev quit, and well, abandoned it.
And in every thread that gets the tag, we have this same "abandoned or not" discussion each time.
So yeah, there needs to be a tag between being on-hold and abandoned. Maybe "Inactive" is a good one. Or "Suspended" or "Paused" or "Dormant".
I don't know why other languages matters, this is an English only site (besides the translation threads).
"Dormant" is probably the best choice. As it's definition is "Inactive but capable of becoming active."
Which is exactly the area between "Abandoned" and "On-hold" that this site needs.
People take the abandoned tag iteral, which causes more issues than it's worth. People think abandoned means the game is dead, the dev quit, and well, abandoned it.
And in every thread that gets the tag, we have this same "abandoned or not" discussion each time.
So yeah, there needs to be a tag between being on-hold and abandoned. Maybe "Inactive" is a good one. Or "Suspended" or "Paused" or "Dormant".
I don't know why other languages matters, this is an English only site (besides the translation threads).
"Dormant" is probably the best choice. As it's definition is "Inactive but capable of becoming active."
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Which is exactly the area between "Abandoned" and "On-hold" that this site needs.
- Jan 21, 2022
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My preference is to fuck the flags unless explicitly stated by a developer.
It should only be "on-hold" if a developer states as such.
It should only be "completed" if a developer states as such.
It should only be "abandoned" or "dead" or "trashed" or whatever if a developer states as such.
Anything else is conjecture (legit or not) and the flag shouldn't be applied. But F95 is doing its best to appease the people on here who cry for developer "accountability" while pirating the games. And so we have the 3 month and 18 month rules. And the staff does their best to follow those rules.
I honestly don't care if an update takes 2 weeks or 20 years for a game on here. It's a game in development. Shit changes. Life changes. Things don't get finished. No one should ever expect any game in development to ever be "completed" because just like with any business venture, more fail than succeed. As for "on hold" and "abandoned," it's mostly human nature that people avoid having difficult conversations about failure and so many won't say it, but simply stop interacting with those who they feel they have disappointed.
Take what you can get and enjoy it. If it gets an update, enjoy the new content. If it gets a "completed" flag - celebrate (or mourn) the end of new content.
The only people who should care are the developers and the people who financially support the developer on a subscription/payment platform. For both, that's the calculated risk they take.
For Nef, if subscribers aren't getting their special discord channel access and $5+ subscribers aren't getting their special pictures, then Nef isn't providing what he promises and they should be holding him accountable on his Patreon and in his Discord... but that's on them and they should be handling it there, it's not a concern for the majority of us on F95.
For the game, if it comes, it comes. There are 17,000 other games to check out in the meantime.
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- May 1, 2018
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My point was even if the tag was "marmalade," people would still do 90% of what you guys are complaining about. I personally would like to change the name of the tag, but I'm not the boss here.
Regardless of the word in the dreaded orange banner, I've been in denial of it, but now that's over a week since 6 months no update I'm very disappointed
Hope the return is soon or it's time to stop checking
Hope the return is soon or it's time to stop checking
- Oct 5, 2017
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That's pure conjecture, I believe that if the tag was more accurately labelled that the majority of people would not think that games so tagged are abandoned if the tag didn't say abandoned.
- Apr 26, 2020
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- Jan 16, 2022
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Tags need to be short and you gotta draw the line somewhere. For every dev that do end up coming back a few months or years down the line, there's dozens who just go AWOL forever. I'd say it's accurate enough, people can always go read its full definition in the rules.
- Dec 1, 2019
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Many people will not read the rules, not even if in doubt whether something fits their own perception. I think we need to treat that as a given. When they see "abandoned" they will not check what F95 thinks that means, they will give their own interpretation and act on that. Just as people are complaining that game X is "no real harem" because for them that means "all girls are with MC together", game Y is "no real incest" because the relations aren't close enough for their understanding, game Z is "not completed" because an individual ending, that was once planned, has not been implemented. Heck, I am guilty of this myself, in my signature I tell people I like "corruption", but in 90% of the games with the tag I will tell you "that's not what corruption is at all".
And I agree that we cannot change that completely by changing the terminology. However, we might improve on this if we had tags that were intentionally more ambiguous. Somebody suggested "ghosted", I don't know whether jokingly or honestly or desperately, and I though "what a silly idea, a slang term, completely overused, completely underdefined". But maybe that actually would be useful because at least the half sane people wouldn't really know what that means and thus indeed read up on the definitions, whereas they consider "abandoned" as a technical term.
We shouldn't expect though, that it would solve all of the problem. People will read up on it and then forget the "finer points". Other people want to trash talk or overpraise a game and do not want any marmalade stamped on it or will clamor for it because it doesn't meet their definition - whether informed or not. And many people will insist on their definition even against site rules where it is 100% clear that a game meets or doesn't meet the criteria.
So some mitigation would arguably be possible, but a two page necrologue like this would just as arguably still be happening. And that's not even touching the "enforcement and consistency" issues discussed above.
At least that'd be my guess.
And I agree that we cannot change that completely by changing the terminology. However, we might improve on this if we had tags that were intentionally more ambiguous. Somebody suggested "ghosted", I don't know whether jokingly or honestly or desperately, and I though "what a silly idea, a slang term, completely overused, completely underdefined". But maybe that actually would be useful because at least the half sane people wouldn't really know what that means and thus indeed read up on the definitions, whereas they consider "abandoned" as a technical term.
We shouldn't expect though, that it would solve all of the problem. People will read up on it and then forget the "finer points". Other people want to trash talk or overpraise a game and do not want any marmalade stamped on it or will clamor for it because it doesn't meet their definition - whether informed or not. And many people will insist on their definition even against site rules where it is 100% clear that a game meets or doesn't meet the criteria.
So some mitigation would arguably be possible, but a two page necrologue like this would just as arguably still be happening. And that's not even touching the "enforcement and consistency" issues discussed above.
At least that'd be my guess.
- Jul 8, 2017
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Dude, I love Midlife Crisis, and I wish we could apply a tag that says something, in not as many words: "He's PROBABLY working on an update because this developer disappears often and then comes back with a banger", but there hasn't been a post on Patreon for 3 months, and he hasn't said anything on Discord about the actual production of his game even before that. The last times we heard from him he brought up more family drama in early December, and then a month later complained that he burned his hand on a mower. Sure, the little green light on Discord comes on once in a while, but he is silent.
I want to give Nef, especially because how awesome Midlife Crisis is, the benefit of the doubt and apply a tag that says "inactive", or "silent but working", or "We'll be right back, folks"; however, there hasn't been a word on the actual production of MLC in a quarter of a year.
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You're 100% correct there, there's this weird denial some people on this site do whenever a game gets the abandoned tag where they froth at the mouth at the mere suggestion that the dev abandoned a game (despite how common it is). That will still happen no matter what the term used in the orange box is be it "Abandoned", "Inactive", "No Response", or even fucking "Pineapple"
I don't like talking about other games in these threads but look at Ecchi Sensi it went an literally over a year before those types even started to acknowledge that Blue Cat's probably abandoned his game. People can argue the term all they want at the end of the day the tag is a warning to anyone who hasn't played this yet that this game probably wont be finished and to not put too much time in it, it should have a hard line cut off. A quarter of a fucking year is more than enough.
Considering how Nef always updates, in a very own way, there is the possibility that we will get an update some day, since it happened like that more than once. Still there is also the possibility that it really is abandoned.
No matter what we happen this game and dev deserve a special goodbye and here it is:
"My Way" sung by Alfons Hatler (C.M.Herbst), a character from the spoof movie series "Der Wixxer"
No matter what we happen this game and dev deserve a special goodbye and here it is:
"My Way" sung by Alfons Hatler (C.M.Herbst), a character from the spoof movie series "Der Wixxer"
- Apr 26, 2020
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Sure, let's go with that.....
Which, again, has happened before with this very VN. So no reason to go nuts yet.
- Jul 8, 2017
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I feel that. The fan in me is giving him the benefit of doubt.