- Apr 15, 2021
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That's fine, Femdom is fun, but it also needs to be believable, and right now, the walking away path is the most believable
- Thread starter Miron HFG
- Start date
- Aug 22, 2018
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It's a femdom game, it's not aimed at people not into femdom.
- Mar 13, 2020
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I understand the believability issue, and I do have some concerns about the way the wife is written -- she goes too quickly from caring to not caring, it makes her personality feel less than human, which goes against all the character-building for her prior to the big changes.
But this particular aspect... I've seen people do very, VERY stupid things with money. I assume the MC simply had never really dealt with banks or loan sharks before, and felt sure everything would be OK because he would pay back in time, etc. So this doesn't bother me so much. MC is being stupid, but people in real life can be that stupid (just looking around and considering anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers, I think lots of people IRL do lots of stupid things), so I don't see that as a plot hole or not a believable point, just as something that shows how naive MC is about money.
- Aug 7, 2019
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It's not a question of whether there is people that stupid or not, I know there is. I *refuse* to be that guy, even in fantasy.
Edit: for the record, it sounds like the wife has the exact same problem I had with Alex, so I would have wound up dropping this at that point anyway. I do like MironY's games, but his female leads that are supposedly love interests really put a number on it for me. I'm a sub for sure, but I'm also a romantic at heart. I have to differentiate play and lifestyle. I can take a massive amount of harshness from strangers or play or something, like the side characters in vicious circle, but when it comes to someone that supposedly has feelings and there is no after care and the love switches to absolute disdain with no hints of affection, I just can't enjoy that at all.
- Sep 10, 2019
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As they say - there is only one step from love to hate. And exes don't always stay friends after, let alone care for each other
You make some good points, and personally, I enjoy good femdom stories as much as the next guy. Some games allow players more interactive control over the MC. However, with other games or visual novels, you might have a few choices but you're mostly along for the ride.
Of course, as with any work of art or fiction, there will always be critics. There will be those who express dissatisfaction with what might be regarded as "plot holes" or things that stretch one's suspension of disbelief (which is required both for enjoyable movie-watching and video-game playing). Even the actors in a production have to temporarily suspend their disbelief in order to play the role.
And that's kind of what many games are like: The player is not unlike an actor playing a role.
I came across an interesting memo that Robert Reed wrote to the producers of The Brady Bunch, in which some good points were raised (although he did seem to take that show far too seriously).
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A key point: "It is a long since proven theorem in the theatre that an audience will adjust its suspension of belief to the degree that the opening of the presentation leads them. When a curtain rises on two French maids in a farce set discussing the peccadilloes of their master, the audience is now set for an evening of theatre in a certain style, and are prepared to accept having excluded certain levels of reality. And that is the price difference in the styles of theatre, both for the actor and the writer–the degree of reality inherent. Pure drama and comedy are closest to core realism, slapstick and fantasy the farthest removed."
I'm not saying that I agree with any of the complaints about this game, although I can sort of understand where some of them are coming from. Maybe it's much ado over nothing.
In the context of this game, I think the trouble many people are having is not that it's a femdom game and wish it could be a maledom game (although there may be some of that). The MC is ostensibly established as someone who doesn't want to be dominated by his wife and is trying to prove himself as a worthy husband capable of supporting his wife (who comes from a wealthy family) in a manner she has grown accustomed to. He's a guy who comes from a poor background yet somehow manages to rise above that, graduates from university and gets a job with a large firm so his wife can be free to pursue an art career.
The game seems to have more of a "real world" vibe to it; it's not like some outlandish femdom world, such as Femdom City (which is truly superb), where maledom is simply not an option. In this story, the woman becomes the boss because Daddy owns the company. Such a premise can certainly have a femdom quality to it, although it might suggest the possibility of maledom and make some people wonder what direction it might take.
- Dec 16, 2019
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This is why checking out the tags offered by a game's dev comes in handy. If there is no mention of maledom, its silly to demand it, or bemoan its lack. It beyond stupid in my opinion to play a game which does not feature the kink you seek, and then complain about its lack, when you could have checked the tags before-hand.
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- Aug 22, 2018
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I wouldn't think so, I think the dev has made it more than clear that will never be an option.
This is a pure femdom story with no chance of that altering.
- Dec 16, 2019
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Who needs enemies with friends like these?
I can enjoy this game as is, and given the amount of femdom-haters all this game needed is that those who are somewhat into femdom also chime in on their side.
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- Apr 15, 2021
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Again, Femdom doesn't equal stupid plot, there is nothing in the plot that explains how the wife completely stops caring about the MC in a matter of a few weeks, sure he's not very intelligent, and he's weak-willed, and heck just a loser, but she already knew that about him and loved him, so the 180 change in her feelings makes no sense
- Aug 22, 2018
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Maybe not but even changes to the plot aren't going to change the core of the game, the dev is making a femdom game so regardless of how the plot goes it isn't aimed at peopel that don't like femdom.
- Apr 15, 2021
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Doesn't have to, keep it femdom, just make it make sense
This is why I love Boring Days, the progression of Femdom makes sense
- Aug 7, 2019
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Oi oi oi, aren't you being a little harsh to me? I still wish luck on the game and support the development, I just don't think its the game for me since I am not a fan of how the "love interest" is written. If he wrote the wife as instead just a mistress or domme from the start, it would be fine. I can't take that 180 personality flip that destroys the notion of why they even got together in the first place. What that guy said was definitely a dick thing to say, but why drag me in like that?
How am I supposed to interpret your message? So we aren't friends? Because...why? We've debated and had nice discussions in the past, why are you taking this stance towards me now?
- Dec 16, 2019
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You over-interpreted what I attributed to you. I just find it unnerving, that in the midst of so much hate towards this game, nobody can offer criticism with a constructive bent. Sure you may dislike aspects of it, but I don't think the game deserves the negativity it got so far from many people. I saw and played far worse games in every way! I'm not saying at all that your comments or you are like those who hate on the game, but your comment adds validation for their vitriol without you intending it as such. I just read the room temperature differently than you, I guess. Imagine this on a game you like happening...I don't know. Sorry if you feel offended, that was not my intention.
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If the game should just picture "extreme" femdom fantasies, then all the build up with flashbacks of the friendship and 1st year of marriage and all the office stuff are unneccessary and they could just jump into action as in most porn videos. It would be much easier if mc and wife were just porn actors who implement a given script of "extreme" femdom fantasies ...
- Dec 16, 2019
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Not unnecessary, it makes it all the more cruel, rejection itself can be part of the fantasy and it acts as another level of "torture" on an emotional level. I once read an erotic novel in which a guy saves a girl from being homeless, gives her everything, but she secretly hates him, and then "repays" his kindness with a cruel crescendo of blackmail and domination. It was an exquisite femdom story.
- Mar 13, 2020
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That's a fair point, and I can see where you're coming from here. Personally, though, and even though I'd also call myself a romantic at heart, I am not in principle against a story that starts all lovey-dovey and ends up with the female half completely and utterly despising the male half of the couple. I'm not saying that 'gentler' takes with lots of aftercare aren't just as great (it's not a question of what is "better" femdom or "truer" femdom -- I don't think these adjectives even make much sense when you're talking about a moral lens on a whole genre), but I am saying that, just as there is a place in literature for true tragedies and nihilism, there is also a place for such stories. Let's say that my dark side has a darker side to it, too (while still keeping my romantic side very much there...)
So I don't dislike games that go in this direction (once, a while ago, I even offered MironY help with the translation of Vicious Circle); with me, it is more the believability of the changes. And that's not limited to this particular kind of game; lots of femdom games (hell, lots of erotic games, or even lots of games in general) transition too fast between two very different states: one moment the MC is an unexperienced little child, a few moments later s/he's defeating incredibly powerful enemies with awesome magic.
In this game, the idea -- go from a love relationship to one in which basically the wife degrades the husband to an object and loses all interest in him besides his practical uses -- is fine, at least for my darker side. But to have her be all worried with her husband's weight gain for his health, and also worried about his opinion of her if he just sees what she was looking at on the computer screen... to not caring at all about what he does or thinks is, well, jarring. It needs to progress at a slower pace, to make more sense.
MironY is a good writer, and he is clearly trying his best to make the transition more believable. It is clear that, say, the wife's first day at work, when she sees her husband being humiliated by his boss and feels aroused because of it, is designed as part of this transition. The changes in her attitude -- from defending her husband against her mother during his first visit to actually siding with her mother (despite acknowledging that she had gone too far) after their second fight -- is also an attempt in this direction.
But it still feels... too sudden. The scene in the spa, and the way she thought about her husband, still seem so... out of the blue at that point. It is hard for me to imagine that a character who went through a reasonable amount of positive characterization (e.g., the scene in which she cried because of her father's death) kinda pulling a Harvey Dent like that and suddenly sounding more like her mother than like herself. Similarly, when the MC prepares her a romantic dinner as a prelude to their discussion, her thoughts are all about how he's trying to manipulate her -- when several scenes ago she seemed to understand that his feelings for her were sincere. How, when, and exactly why did she change her mind?
Which is why I suggest adding intervening steps. They started doing more femdom stuff in the bedroom after the discussion about the facesitting scene from that website, right? So let them slowly introduce some elements of femdom play in non-erotic moments as well. When they're watching tv. When he's cooking or washing clothes (which wouldn't be suddenly imposed on him but which he could be gradually picking up, both to put her in a better mood and because he slowly begins to feel it is more appropriate). Let them discuss it openly, devise some system and some rules that make it fun for both of them -- including some scenes in which she pretends to be angry at him. Then have him screw up about something, and let them play one of these scenes with her being slightly, or somewhat, angry, rather than just playful; and with him truly feeling that he deserves what he's getting, so it doesn't feel unfair and he can see why she's doing it.
Then slowly make things worse. Make her increase the number of his tasks, and decrease the time he has to himself (until we get to a point in which she's making sure he's not masturbating when she isn't looking). It may be because of small screw-ups; it may be because she actually enjoys the idea of humiliating him a little (justifying it to herself at first as, "oh, he likes it too, so I'm actually being good to him"). If the transition and dialogues are well written, we'll all be able to see where this is going, and still keep the impression that neither MC nor his wife know where this will end... until one day, like the proverbial frog boiled in water that had been slowly becoming warmer and warmer, hotter and hotter... he's trapped. (It's easy to see how the loan could be integrated into this.)
And then go as wild as you want. Destroy any semblance of love the wife could have for the MC, and make her rejoice more and more openly in the evil of crushing his will to her desires, both sexually and non-sexually. (It's a good idea to go slowly here, too, but just because one can then increase the number of scenes and prolong both her and our pleasure at seeing the MC suffer more and more.) And finish it with her becoming distant and unavailable to the little despicable piece of shit that cleans her shoes and bathroom while reveling in the power and wealth that her increasing success at the job bring her. Hell, make her team up with her boss to create a club in which they teach other women how to do the same to their husbands. The sky is the limit!
AND you'll have made it psychologically more plausible. (One can perhaps even insert scenes of self-discovery, as I think the scene in the spa was meant to be, in which the MC's wife slowly comes to term with enjoying the steps along the way, each step at a time.) Because the lack of this plausibility -- the jump from stage A to stage C without going through stage B -- tend to kill the feeling of immersion. One is suddenly led to see the MC and his wife as, after all, just fictional characters serving as props for sexy scenes...
A last word on morality to Ravenleaf: I again say that the point is not being anti-romantic (as I said, I am also a romantic at heart). The point is living a fantasy, a dark fantasy, but still a fantasy. I also love stories with tragic heroes (Hamlet is one of my favorites, or in the VN/anime world, Kiritsugu Emiya) that meet an undeserving fate too cruel for them. It breaks my heart, but it also makes me think, and, when it is well written, it is a very deep experience. Of course, we're all free to like or dislike what we want, I'm not judging anybody, and I hope nobody is judging me. And I also enjoy a lot stories with caring dommes and nicer feelings and lots of aftercare. It's just that... my darker sides also need some care...
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Hope there is a way to save the Love while still being in a D/s relationship.
The game so far avoided (mostly) the use of sex toys, bondage, spanking ... it seems too early to switch to slavery without trying out more bdsm stuff.
Well, you're right, and I mostly agree with the points you're making. I'm also a big fan of femdom games, and I agree that there aren't a lot of games in that genre as compared with other genres. I've also come across a few bashers of the genre overall (as well as femdom/malesub dynamics in real life too). I don't pay attention to those types too much, so I guess I've just gotten numb to those kinds of criticisms.
I also agree that the tags are worth considering and looking at. But even then, you never really know about a game until you load it up and start playing and seeing what kind of world you're entering and the role you're playing as the MC.