VN Ren'Py Murmur [v0.6.1 Remake Hotfix] [Devil's Dad]

[MagnusAxess]

For me personally, I really enjoyed your game up to 0.6, and I think it has a lot of potential, so good job there. I think your time could be better served with new content, rather than spending a year+ reworking what you already did. But, hey, it's a free world, so do whatever motivates you. I just hope that this game eventually gets some new content, someday. I am not really interested in replaying reworked scenes I've already seen. Maybe other people are different.

People keep saying this but I believe I remember the Ren'Py update really messed with things, so updating unfinished games before continuing will really save time in the end as a lot of older stuff doesn't play well with the new way things are handled it's also really weird to see a random jump of quality to those that would come later to play it.

 

[Smarmint]

People keep saying this but I believe I remember the Ren'Py update really messed with things, so updating unfinished games before continuing will really save time in the end as a lot of older stuff doesn't play well with the new way things are handled it's also really weird to see a random jump of quality to those that would come later to play it.

Renpy updates don't affect the images or dialog. If a dev actually says this to explain a 1 year delay, I call BS. At most, Renpy updates might affect some coding syntax and directory structure, and you may need to update the main menu. As a programmer, I am skeptical that a version update of the development environment, especially with Python, would cause more that a few hours of tweaking to get it to work as good as new.

The coding in Murmur is minimal. You can see it yourself with Unren. Its all lines of dialog and a handful of choice variables. So I don't buy that this could cause more than a week delay, at most. Let's say 2 weeks to be extra, extra, charitable.

Also, I haven't noticed any discernible jump in image quality. I haven't heard anyone here say that the quality of the latest updates is significantly improved over the first update. Maybe in the dialog, but certainly not the images.

We all have the game. What image from early updates do you think is significantly improved by the latest update? Feel free to just describe the scene and I'll check it out. To me they are identical. Maybe there is some slight lighting improvement or character expression that shows a little more posing skill, but if so it is quite subtle.

I think most of here were willing to give the dev the benefit of the doubt for the first few months, but so far it's been a year and all we have seen of the supposed redo is an image or two.

It's past time for the dev to either actually do what he said he would do a year ago and release his updates, or just admit that nothing much has really has happened in the last year and he will either start working on the game again, or just forget about it, and we and the rest of his fans will just move on to something else.

Which will it be?

 

[Devil'sDad]

I'm working on the game as I always do. If you don't belive me, don't want to wait, or want to move on it's your choice.
There are a lot of other games in the meantime.

Expect less - get more. Is a simple motto that'll bring more happiness in your life than you can think of. And I'm not directing this to anyone specifically.

I am a slow worker you can say, but I'll get there eventually, as I always do.
If you think that I'll drop the game after I spent a fucktone of my love and life on it. Think twice

If I didn't care about my project then there wouldn't be a Sophie karaoke scene that I translated to English and made it singable along Japanese myself. And other hard to make scenes. There wouldn't be a remake I'm doing if I didn't care about it.

In the end, all I can say will be words and nothing more. You're free not pay me, game updates will be released for free when I'm done with them.

 

[w123t4]

The problem is not remaking the game by using a long time, it is having a more probability to put the project in danger by extending the developing time.
We all know that life is unpredictable and it sometimes take shits on you. From my experience in f95 I already seen quite a lot of developers abandoned their project with or without their will due to economic status, sickness or even death. If they have these issues in a normal developing time then it will be more possible to have these issues if you take a longer developing time than them, right? Hell look at AOA academy, even this kind of masterpiece vanish all so suddenly without anyone notice a sign, everything is possible in the future.
I am not oppose your decision of remaking the game, not believing you or trying to look down your passion to the game, we all enjoy the higher quality of game if it has, but I still need to say my opinion as the plan is always off trail. I have seen quite a sum of potential games been abandoned and it already grieve me enough, just afraid to see that tag appear in this thread when I come back to check this game in the future.

 

[botc76]

It's not that you can't understand the drive to rework the stuff you think isn't up to par anymore.
It's that out of dozens of games which tried this, all but 3-4 (which are still being worked on), have been abandoned, during the rework/remake. Some devs seem to go into a daze of doing a few versions, then finding their work isn't satisfactory any more, and they rework it, rinse and repeat.
Then for others it might be that the support drops while they rework old content, that the mood turns against them, because it seems they are stalling... whatever it is devs burn out, simply disappear... when I see someone writing about a rework of early chapters, about re-doing stuff, or even worse a complete remake, it's almost synonymous with just waiting for the abandoned tag to drop.
It's not that I don't trust the individual dev's intentions or honesty, it's the experience from years on this forum which significantly indicates doing a rework/remake/reboot while the original isn't finished won't have a good outcome.

 

[DougsLeftNut]

It's not that you can't understand the drive to rework the stuff you think isn't up to par anymore.
It's that out of dozens of games who tried this, all but 3-4 (which are still being worked on), have been abandoned, during the rework/remake. Some devs seem to go into a daze of doing a few versions, then finding their work isn't satisfactory any more, and they rework it, rinse and repeat.
Then for others it might be that the support drops while they rework old content, that the mood turns against them, because it seems they are stalling... whatever it is devs burn out, simply disappear... when I see someone writing about a rework of early chapters, about re-doing stuff, or even worse a complete remake, it's almost synonymous with just waiting for the abandoned tag to drop.
It's not that I don't trust the individual dev's intentions or honesty, it's the experience from years on this forum which significantly indicates doing a rework/remake/reboot while the original isn't finished won't have a good outcome.

The best handling of revamped content I've seen is Harem Hotel. The developer will go back and remake a few scenes that he's no longer happy with or add some early story context as well in an update, but never at the expense of moving the story forward and creating new scenes.

 

[asakura14]

Wait, so you practically started the game from the scratch again? why, tho? the current version of the game looks dope. Or I misunderstood?, what does the remake means?

 

[Devil'sDad]

Wait, so you practically started the game from the scratch again? why, tho? the current version of the game looks dope. Or I misunderstood?, what does the remake means?

You must be registered to see the links

 

[GarbageCat]

I'm probably gonna have to restart the whole thing anyway considering how long it's been since I touched this game so a remake isn't really a big deal to me.

 

[Smarmint]

You must be registered to see the links

None of this explanation for the need to rework the game makes any sense. The stated reason for the rework is stated as:

"MurMur had a render almost per each line of text. And while I love how the game looks with this. The purpose of which this feature serves is not worth it's many downsides. Most important of them is how long it takes for me to render so many renders. ... The ratio of renders per line of text will be reduced by three or slightly more times in a whole game. This will remove the need for such numerous renders in the future updates."

Umm. Yea.

First of all, not sure why the dev is referring to "renders" or referring to rendering time. Since this game is based on Honey Select, there isn't any rendering. Honey Select developers frequently mislead their fans by calling their images "renders", implying that part of the development time is rendering time, as with Daz or Blender. It should really be called "posings", since you just pose the image and then screenshot or save for an instant image.

Ok, so the dev wants to reduce the images from one image per line of text to one image per 3 or 4 lines of text. Ok, fine. But why redo all the old work? Why not just create fewer images per line of text for the next update? Nobody will notice the ratio change, and if they do, they will think about it for about 5 seconds, and then go back to playing the game. If you are extremely anal-retentive, just delete 2/3rs of the images for the existing game (pick your favorite of the 3 per 3 lines of dialog), and then it will be consistent, not that a single player will care.

Honestly, I have seen lots of sketchy, misleading, and self-justifying reasons for rework, but changing the number of posings per dialog line? This has to be the most bizarre, nonsensical reason of all.

Finally, can anyone explain why changing the number of lines of dialog per image takes 15 months? This seems like either zero weeks of rework, just make the next update as usual, of if you are extremely anal-retentive, a few days of work to go back and delete a bunch of images, and then modify the code to now show 1 image per dialog and instead only change images every 3 lines of dialog.

What am I missing here?

 

[Devil'sDad]

You again? Can you just accept that rework is in the progress, or why are you still here?

 

[Smarmint]

You again? Can you just accept that rework is in the progress, or why are you still here?

I didn't ask for a response. But hey, since you feel the need to chime in, feel free to address any of my specific points above.

Also, just so you know, this is a gaming forum. To discuss the progress (or lack of) of the game. That is what we are doing. Discussing it.

Feel free to provide whatever detail you want about the progress of the development, or not.

 

[starkj]

There are litteraly thousands of games in this site that you can play for free, why are you so obsessed and mad with this one?

 

[Devil'sDad]

I didn't ask for a response. But hey, since you feel the need to chime in, feel free to address any of my specific points above.

Also, just so you know, this is a gaming forum. To discuss the progress (or lack of) of the game. That is what we are doing. Discussing it.

Feel free to provide whatever detail you want about the progress of the development, or not.

If you didn't ask, I won't answer, lol.

 

[MagnusAxess]

Renpy updates don't affect the images or dialog. If a dev actually says this to explain a 1 year delay, I call BS. At most, Renpy updates might affect some coding syntax and directory structure, and you may need to update the main menu. As a programmer, I am skeptical that a version update of the development environment, especially with Python, would cause more that a few hours of tweaking to get it to work as good as new.

The coding in Murmur is minimal. You can see it yourself with Unren. Its all lines of dialog and a handful of choice variables. So I don't buy that this could cause more than a week delay, at most. Let's say 2 weeks to be extra, extra, charitable.

Also, I haven't noticed any discernible jump in image quality. I haven't heard anyone here say that the quality of the latest updates is significantly improved over the first update. Maybe in the dialog, but certainly not the images.

We all have the game. What image from early updates do you think is significantly improved by the latest update? Feel free to just describe the scene and I'll check it out. To me they are identical. Maybe there is some slight lighting improvement or character expression that shows a little more posing skill, but if so it is quite subtle.

I think most of here were willing to give the dev the benefit of the doubt for the first few months, but so far it's been a year and all we have seen of the supposed redo is an image or two.

It's past time for the dev to either actually do what he said he would do a year ago and release his updates, or just admit that nothing much has really has happened in the last year and he will either start working on the game again, or just forget about it, and we and the rest of his fans will just move on to something else.

Which will it be?

I didn't say the update affected the image quality, I said you don't want a long game where your quality improved to have bad quality from the beginning to the best you made at the end. I imagine the desire to update everything to be in line would be so you don't see that jump in quality. Get it?

I've seen a lot of games where the newest update they didn't know how to keep the save files or it would take a long time to do.

Two different points I was making.

 

[Dragon59]

I didn't say the update affected the image quality, I said you don't want a long game where your quality improved to have bad quality from the beginning to the best you made at the end. I imagine the desire to update everything to be in line would be so you don't see that jump in quality. Get it?

I have definitely seen developers fall in that particular trap. It's one reason my first projects are shorter stories. I won't tackle my epics until I have some some completed shorts under my belt.

 

[WellWouldYouLookAtThat?]

well i saw the game on itchio then i came here and saw 1 year without update, can t believe people is getting money with works unfinished and are sold as a complete product would . this is insane

 

[WellWouldYouLookAtThat?]

The problem is not remaking the game by using a long time, it is having a more probability to put the project in danger by extending the developing time.
We all know that life is unpredictable and it sometimes take shits on you. From my experience in f95 I already seen quite a lot of developers abandoned their project with or without their will due to economic status, sickness or even death. If they have these issues in a normal developing time then it will be more possible to have these issues if you take a longer developing time than them, right? Hell look at AOA academy, even this kind of masterpiece vanish all so suddenly without anyone notice a sign, everything is possible in the future.
I am not oppose your decision of remaking the game, not believing you or trying to look down your passion to the game, we all enjoy the higher quality of game if it has, but I still need to say my opinion as the plan is always off trail. I have seen quite a sum of potential games been abandoned and it already grieve me enough, just afraid to see that tag appear in this thread when I come back to check this game in the future.

personally i dont believe any dev that says he is having troubles with life

 

[GarbageCat]

Need. Update. Fix...

Sorry. Just need to vent a little.

 

[w123t4]

Finally the remake is almost over, now we need to wait for the story content update