4.50 star(s) 154 Votes

Dragon1982

Active Member
Sep 7, 2019
592
381
At least he was given the choice to pursue or walk away, but considering I've seen some examples first hand I'd think the doctor was certain that the MC's curiosity about who he is would overwrite any doubt he may have about seeing the family he forgot for the sake of finding something familiar rather than fending for himself considering that even if memories go away, feelings most likely won't. He is a caring person by nature as shown from certain dialogue so he possibly in the deepest recesses of his mind feared more about hurting those that cared about him more than he cared about himself.
 

ClockworkGnome

Active Member
Sep 18, 2021
737
1,952
I haven't got that far.
It's really only a thing very early on in the game, while you're still at the hospital. By the time you leave you're mostly past it and fully invested in trying to reconnect with your family. There are even multiple points where you basically ask yourself why you ever considered the idea in the first place.

It's relatively easy to just dismiss it as being a symptom of his total confusion due to the amnesia and not a huge part of the story overall.


something in a story doesn't need to be realistic, otherwise you can't have fantasy and science fiction. But it does need to be believable, or at least reasonably believable.
The usual words that come up in this context are verisimilitude or relateability.

A story doesn't need to be 100% accurate, but it needs to be internally consistent or it takes you out of the story. And you have to be able to relate to it on some level or you'll have a hard time caring. Which is why most alien races in sci-fi tend to act exactly like humans and most fantasy stories ignore 90% of the radical changes that magic would cause in any actual world. Because changing too much too far away from what is "real" makes it hard to relate to.

It's also why most settings with fantasy/sci-fi elements tend to change only a few things but keep the rest of the world more or less exactly the same. Because changing everything makes the world too unrecognizable, and the viewer stops caring about it.

On the flip side, at least some suspension of disbelief is necessary, otherwise you'd never be able to enjoy any entertainment media again. Just as an example, almost no story involving amnesia ever presents the amnesia correctly based on how it actually works in the real world. Because real amnesia wouldn't make for good stories. So we all sort of tacitly agree to pretend that the trope of amnesia as presented in tons of movies, shows, and books is an acceptable compromise.


I honestly think part of the reason the Doctor says that, and why the story starts out like that, is that people can easily be taken advantage of in similar situations. The MC is a well known person in the world, who is very well off, making that an even greater danger.
It's not entirely out of the question that it could be a concern - just because someone is family doesn't mean they're necessarily good people. I've actually informally disowned at least half my family, and I wouldn't want them anywhere near having access to my medical information or treatment decisions. I certainly wouldn't even remotely trust them to have access to me at a time when I was mentally impaired and potentially open to being manipulated or exploited.

That being said, the way it's presented in the story it is somewhat irresponsible on the part of the doctor, especially because he alludes to a lot of things but refuses to actually tell you anything straight out, in a deliberately and frustratingly obtuse way that is almost guaranteed to make things worse, not better. At a time when you are almost entirely helpless and confused, almost everything the hospital staff does seems calculated to confuse you even worse. Even the officially appointed therapist is absolutely terrible at her job.

(part of what was reinforcing my early suspicions that they WERE doing it deliberately, and that the story was going to devolve into you being manipulated and lied to at every turn)

But it's obvious from most of the rest of the game that the point of the story isn't to deal with how the medical establishment handles severe amnesiac cases as much as to fast forward past the minor details so the story can get you back home and interacting with your family. So most of the early stuff is just glossed over and half-assed to explain why the hospital is letting you go rather than keeping you in some sort of facility, and then it's all mostly ignored once you get home and the real interaction starts.
 

Dragon1982

Active Member
Sep 7, 2019
592
381
It's really only a thing very early on in the game, while you're still at the hospital. By the time you leave you're mostly past it and fully invested in trying to reconnect with your family. There are even multiple points where you basically ask yourself why you ever considered the idea in the first place.

It's relatively easy to just dismiss it as being a symptom of his total confusion due to the amnesia and not a huge part of the story overall.



The usual words that come up in this context are verisimilitude or relateability.

A story doesn't need to be 100% accurate, but it needs to be internally consistent or it takes you out of the story. And you have to be able to relate to it on some level or you'll have a hard time caring. Which is why most alien races in sci-fi tend to act exactly like humans and most fantasy stories ignore 90% of the radical changes that magic would cause in any actual world. Because changing too much too far away from what is "real" makes it hard to relate to.

It's also why most settings with fantasy/sci-fi elements tend to change only a few things but keep the rest of the world more or less exactly the same. Because changing everything makes the world too unrecognizable, and the viewer stops caring about it.

On the flip side, at least some suspension of disbelief is necessary, otherwise you'd never be able to enjoy any entertainment media again. Just as an example, almost no story involving amnesia ever presents the amnesia correctly based on how it actually works in the real world. Because real amnesia wouldn't make for good stories. So we all sort of tacitly agree to pretend that the trope of amnesia as presented in tons of movies, shows, and books is an acceptable compromise.



It's not entirely out of the question that it could be a concern - just because someone is family doesn't mean they're necessarily good people. I've actually informally disowned at least half my family, and I wouldn't want them anywhere near having access to my medical information or treatment decisions. I certainly wouldn't even remotely trust them to have access to me at a time when I was mentally impaired and potentially open to being manipulated or exploited.

That being said, the way it's presented in the story it is somewhat irresponsible on the part of the doctor, especially because he alludes to a lot of things but refuses to actually tell you anything straight out, in a deliberately and frustratingly obtuse way that is almost guaranteed to make things worse, not better. At a time when you are almost entirely helpless and confused, almost everything the hospital staff does seems calculated to confuse you even worse. Even the officially appointed therapist is absolutely terrible at her job.

(part of what was reinforcing my early suspicions that they WERE doing it deliberately, and that the story was going to devolve into you being manipulated and lied to at every turn)

But it's obvious from most of the rest of the game that the point of the story isn't to deal with how the medical establishment handles severe amnesiac cases as much as to fast forward past the minor details so the story can get you back home and interacting with your family. So most of the early stuff is just glossed over and half-assed to explain why the hospital is letting you go rather than keeping you in some sort of facility, and then it's all mostly ignored once you get home and the real interaction starts.
What about what I said in the comment before yours? I've heard of similar cases where just because an official says one thing to the amnesiac isn't really their intention, at least as far as decision making is concerned when presented by an unbiased person. In certain cases it's more of a test than anything else considering in this instance he had the option to talk to the concerned party members instead of being thrown into it before he was ready to meet them. I do see the early going it was a bit unfair to hold back info from the MC and the therapist could have done a little better, but in the grand scheme of things it was still the MC's decision alone to decide if he would take the chance, which he based more on feeling and instinct instead of what he was told. He was never forced by someone else. From a story standpoint it wasn't perfect but it is still a real feel good experience which I personally enjoyed greatly, not taking any shots at you, just curious about what you think of my personal view on things since I enjoy a good story, that's all.
 

Killer7

My New Family / My New Memories
Donor
Game Developer
May 14, 2019
2,209
17,309
I mean, it's still just a game and I don't think anyone here actually has an PHD regarding this matter. In this case there is no golden way of doing it, sure, you might have done it differently if it was your game but I decided to go this way and I think it worked out decently in the end :).
 

Brannon

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,182
1,568
For fuck sake, I knew someone was going to say something stupid like this. But I gave the benefit of the doubt anyway...

There is a pretty wide gap between "I don't remember you, fuck off" and "let's act like nothing has changed".

Trying to reconnect while keeping in mind that the person has no memory is what you are supposed to do. Walking away from your old life like it didn't exist is going to make recovering memories a whole lot harder, and is a completely dick thing to do to the people who remember *you*. And even if you don't know about your children, you still have an obligation - that's the entire basis behind paternity suits.

My father had Alzheimer's, and yes it was tough on everyone, by the time he died he had forgotten everyone, but in the middle years the process was to remind him of who people were, show him pictures and things tell him about them, and so on. Sometimes it came back to him, sometimes it didn't. But neither side just walks away.




Oh wow, the apologist brigade is out in force. "I like this game, how DARE you say something bad about it! I like it, therefore it is perfect, and anyone who says anything bad about it is attacking me personally!"

Fuckin' fanbois...

I am quite aware of how mental illness does and doesn't work, unlike apparently the apologist brigade. Yes, he may act like an idiot, but it is the job of the doctor and psychiatrist to tell him to get his head out of his ass, and actually talk to these people to see if he can remember anything, and perhaps go to his old home and see if anything triggers a memory. Especially photographs. He already had a memory of the one photograph, and his wife, it was not at all unreasonable to assume more could be triggered.

On top of that, this is a guy who remembers nothing about himself or anyone else, and his first inclination is to throw away the people who actually may want to support him? That is beyond idiotic, that's practically suicidal.

However, with that said, we do have a useful counterpoint:




Finally, someone makes an intelligent observation.
It is a fair comment that the doctor bears a lot of responsibility for this, I do mention above that it is the Doctor and Psychiatrists job to set him on the right path, so perhaps I should say their actions are the most unbelievable, instead of the brain damaged MC's.



I haven't got that far. So that reinforces the above statement then that the problem is the questionable behavior of the professionals, more than the MC's.

Not sure if the writer just has a really dim view of the medical profession, or wasn't too concerned about it in the name of their story, But as was pointed out to me by Belle (of Long Live the Princess, the dev, not the character, obviously) when I had a discussion with them, something in a story doesn't need to be realistic, otherwise you can't have fantasy and science fiction. But it does need to be believable, or at least reasonably believable.

Remains to be seen if there are other parts of the story that push the suspension of disbelief to the breaking point.
There are soooo many things wrong in your "explanation" it is mind boggling.
First you don't judge a person that obviously lost his/her memories by the actions s/he took minutes to hours after discovering that.
Second if other people CLAIM to know you but you do not know them it is not "wise" to trust them completely and unconditionally. Simply because there is a possibility that this "family" can consist of paid actors and criminals. For instance the stalker that forced the patients car off the road.
Third slinging big words around does NOT make you look like a knowledgeable person. It makes you look like a massive jerk and smart ass.
Fourth that you know a person with Alzheimers does not make you an expert of mental illnesses and memory loss. Different people react differently. Some Alzheimers patients even turn violent against their (former) loved ones because they don't know them anymore.
Lastly (for now) this is not a documentary. It is a GAME. More specifically an ADULT GAME and this is a STORY. Do you yell at hollywood blockbuster movies that for instance Avengers : Endgame is doing it wrong?
If you want full and exclusive realism turn off your computer and leave the internet. Forever.

P.S.
You obviously don't care about the patient of the memory loss. Judging by your comment that your father has/had Alzheimers and your "explanation" you care about family/friends of said patient only.
Judging by your comment about how said patient should react I guess you were tremendously hurt by your father don't remembering you. And that is the sole reason you are here.
Get professional help. In most of the world the hospitals make appointments to therapists that can help them coping with the situation. The internet and especially ranting on the internet is the worst thing you can consult.
 
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Dragon1982

Active Member
Sep 7, 2019
592
381
There are soooo many things wrong in your "explanation" it is mind boggling.
First you don't judge a person that obviously lost his/her memories by the actions s/he took minutes to hours after discovering that.
Second if other people CLAIM to know you but you do not know them it is not "wise" to trust them completely and unconditionally. Simply because there is a possibility that this "family" can consist of paid actors and criminals.
Third slinging big words around does NOT make you look like a knowledgeable person. It makes you look like a massive jerk and smart ass.
Fourth that you know a person with Alzheimers does not make you an expert of mental illnesses and memory loss. Different people react differently. Some Alzheimers patients even turn violent against their (former) loved ones because they don't know them anymore.
Lastly (for now) this is not a documentary. It is a GAME. More specifically an ADULT GAME and this is a STORY. Do you yell at hollywood blockbuster movies that for instance Avengers : Endgame is doing it wrong?
If you want full and exclusive realism turn off your computer and leave the internet. Forever.
I completely agree with what you said on every point you made, especially the part about the game and story. Even if I said earlier that the story wasn't perfect, I also believe I wouldn't do half as good as Killer7 considering everything he puts in both games is very well done. I would find it virtually impossible to have any real complaints with his work. I may have witnessed several Alzheimer's cases, but I wouldn't act like an expert about it as each one I've seen had noticeable differences. That's enough for me to realize there's more to it than what I know. I'm certainly not one to judge by first impressions either, which I've learned the hard way in real life many times throughout my 39 years of living.
 

sam1234567

Member
May 5, 2018
203
295
just wanted to ask this because im a little confused in regards to new content about this game did a new update with new content get released over the weekend or did a pre release (bugfixes and polishing update) get released cause im a little confused with the patreon posts
 

HornyyPussy

Message Maven
Apr 26, 2020
12,561
29,283
just wanted to ask this because im a little confused in regards to new content about this game did a new update with new content get released over the weekend or did a pre release (bugfixes and polishing update) get released cause im a little confused with the patreon posts
No new release yet, looks like the next update will come this week (on Patreon)
 
  • Yay, new update!
Reactions: sava75
May 14, 2020
242
322
Havik likes the game, but he doesn't want to be spoiled and that's why he wants to ignore the thread. Not everyone who expresses himself in a misleading way is a troll.
By no means do I think he's a troll. Its just the way its formulated is usually looking for attention. (being outraged/angry at something, which elicits response but not saying why).

And with your explanation you're taking some liberties, granted you're likely right, we've no means to confirm it short of the OP telling us what he meant.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: Havik79

HornyyPussy

Message Maven
Apr 26, 2020
12,561
29,283
By no means do I think he's a troll. Its just the way its formulated is usually looking for attention. (being outraged/angry at something, which elicits response but not saying why).

And with your explanation you're taking some liberties, granted you're likely right, we've no means to confirm it short of the OP telling us what he meant.
Seems fairly obvious what he meant though, just like thorin said....no need to overthink it.
 
May 14, 2020
242
322
Seems fairly obvious what he meant though, just like thorin said....no need to overthink it.
To me it doesn't seem obvious tho. If thorin did not tell me I would have never known. Its imo a bit too much information to guess. Maybe its a language thing considering I'm not a native speaker or it just went over my head. Whatever, seems to be my fault/problem anyway considering others know what he means apparently.
 

Dragon1982

Active Member
Sep 7, 2019
592
381
To me it doesn't seem obvious tho. If thorin did not tell me I would have never known. Its imo a bit too much information to guess. Maybe its a language thing considering I'm not a native speaker or it just went over my head. Whatever, seems to be my fault/problem anyway considering others know what he means apparently.
I may have not 100% understood, but I picked up enough not to question it as even I sometimes don't make myself entirely clear, which is often why my comments tend to be longer than I intended to avoid misunderstandings due to a mental condition I have. So in the case of one character in this game I have empathy for her because of what makes her different from other girls since, even though I'm a guy, I know a little of what she goes through just for being different from those that call themselves normal.
 
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4.50 star(s) 154 Votes