VN Ren'Py Not Going Back [Ch.2.2] [Cicada]

[cicadaNGB]

That won't actually stop them. I've seen many AVN's with a single child MC and both parents dead, where people are hitting the thread with incest? incest? incest? For some of them, they even have someone make a incest mod to turn people into relatives.

Oh boy. They're going to love chapter [redacted] when [redacted] gets introduced. Can already see people who'd want to mod that relationship to be different.

 

[cicadaNGB]

Hello! Mentioned a few days ago that I'd be posting a dev log some time this week. That time is now. A quick little update on ch3 progress, cross-posted over from the itch page.


Hello!

Figured it was about due time for a little progress update on Chapter 3. This will be quite a short update, however, because there isn't really a whole lot to say at the moment. That isn't because I haven't been making progress, though; it's just been business as usual these past few weeks, working my way through rendering the visuals for the game.

I'm currently ~300 renders into Chapter 3, in just a little over a month of work. This is about what I aim for (with the time and hardware I have about 10 renders per day is a good average) but 300 renders a month would mean a 2400 render update in 8 months. This would be a significantly faster update than ch2 if I maintain this sort of speed, but it's always hard to predict how long things will take to pose and render. There's one particularly big scene in ch3 that will take quite a long time, and if each image in that scene renders slowly it could take months to produce. I just won't know until I get to it.

Last year, at around this time of year, I took pretty much two months off of making the game due to a combination of reasons including a busy personal life and issues with working on a slow-loading and rendering scene that felt arduous to work on. While I am once again very busy this time of year this year, the ch3 dev cycle won't contain such a long break from working on the game (at least I hope; you never really know what's going to happen). So I'm optimistically thinking that I'm going to be able to maintain this sort of development speed because this month or so since the release of ch2 has gone pretty smoothly, even with my slightly more limited free time.

The first Chapter 3 previews are attached at the top of this post[have been already posted here in a few recent posts]. I'm very excited about this update, and the future of the game generally. We're still in the first phase, and the more I work towards the big, story-defining moments I've got planned the more eager I am to press on and reach those later parts of the story. But I can't rush through the foundation. Things have to be set up properly otherwise everything just won't work. I'm very hopeful that things are going to pay off nicely in the future when I get to them, but I've got to do my due diligence now so that it all makes sense and is earned in the future. I think everyone likes to think they've got great ideas, or can tell great stories, but you don't know if you're right until you put something out there.

Let's all hope that I get this thing right, huh?

Thanks as always

 

[Dessolos]

I can't wait the wait will be worth it from what ive seen so far. Tho I know it is still a long way until then. but 300 renders a month doesn't seem that bad unless a update gonna be in the 4000 range haha. lol l like this game so much I lowkey wish it was like another game I play that does monthly releases and the render count is 200-300 for that one . But that would not work at all with this one that's just me being greedy and impatient cause this game has seriously impressed me more than most.

 

[Justaphase]

Hello! Mentioned a few days ago that I'd be posting a dev log some time this week. That time is now. A quick little update on ch3 progress, cross-posted over from the itch page.


Hello!

Figured it was about due time for a little progress update on Chapter 3. This will be quite a short update, however, because there isn't really a whole lot to say at the moment. That isn't because I haven't been making progress, though; it's just been business as usual these past few weeks, working my way through rendering the visuals for the game.

I'm currently ~300 renders into Chapter 3, in just a little over a month of work. This is about what I aim for (with the time and hardware I have about 10 renders per day is a good average) but 300 renders a month would mean a 2400 render update in 8 months. This would be a significantly faster update than ch2 if I maintain this sort of speed, but it's always hard to predict how long things will take to pose and render. There's one particularly big scene in ch3 that will take quite a long time, and if each image in that scene renders slowly it could take months to produce. I just won't know until I get to it.

Last year, at around this time of year, I took pretty much two months off of making the game due to a combination of reasons including a busy personal life and issues with working on a slow-loading and rendering scene that felt arduous to work on. While I am once again very busy this time of year this year, the ch3 dev cycle won't contain such a long break from working on the game (at least I hope; you never really know what's going to happen). So I'm optimistically thinking that I'm going to be able to maintain this sort of development speed because this month or so since the release of ch2 has gone pretty smoothly, even with my slightly more limited free time.

The first Chapter 3 previews are attached at the top of this post[have been already posted here in a few recent posts]. I'm very excited about this update, and the future of the game generally. We're still in the first phase, and the more I work towards the big, story-defining moments I've got planned the more eager I am to press on and reach those later parts of the story. But I can't rush through the foundation. Things have to be set up properly otherwise everything just won't work. I'm very hopeful that things are going to pay off nicely in the future when I get to them, but I've got to do my due diligence now so that it all makes sense and is earned in the future. I think everyone likes to think they've got great ideas, or can tell great stories, but you don't know if you're right until you put something out there.

Let's all hope that I get this thing right, huh?

Thanks as always

Be careful to not burn yourself out and take care of yourself. Creating art takes time, I would rather wait a while and get something quality and actually worth playing than something that feels rushed.
I am intrigued to see where you are going to go with the main story, but at the same time please try and give as much or perhaps even more attention to the romance and relationships with the LI's. Even though I'm a guy, I am a sucker for a good and wholesome romance with maybe some twists and turns along the way.

 

[Dessolos]

Even though I'm a guy, I am a sucker for a good and wholesome romance with maybe some twists and turns along the way.

Honestly me too that's the main reason for me playing these games. something 3-5 years before getting into AVN's I started to watch some of those lame cheesy girl romance movies / tv shows and romance anime just for the wholesome romance part out of boredom and found out I liked it more than I thought. It's honestly what I value the most in these games and why I consider characters the most important thing for me over story or any other aspect. Even tho a good story is very much welcome it isn't needed for me if I can enjoy the characters alot.

While the game is only in chapter 2 I already feel the characters alot more than alot of other games. Like Mia and Tegean in most games I would of disliked how easy they were to sleep with already without the romance part. But the way it was done made me really enjoy their characters and not care about that at all.

 

[cicadaNGB]

Be careful to not burn yourself out and take care of yourself. Creating art takes time, I would rather wait a while and get something quality and actually worth playing than something that feels rushed.
I am intrigued to see where you are going to go with the main story, but at the same time please try and give as much or perhaps even more attention to the romance and relationships with the LI's. Even though I'm a guy, I am a sucker for a good and wholesome romance with maybe some twists and turns along the way.

Don't worry, the relationships are going to get as much focus. But I won't pretend either that the main reason for making the game is the main storyline. The LIs, relationships, other characters all developed from there. But, as I say, I think I'm planning it all out so that the relationships and romance will get significant focus too. I'm just personally more excited about what's coming in the main character's story than any of the specific relationships. That doesn't mean I'm going to cut corners or rush anything, though, or that I'm not excited about the LIs etc., because I am for sure

 

[ZagorTeNay]

Oh boy. They're going to love chapter [redacted] when [redacted] gets introduced. Can already see people who'd want to mod that relationship to be different.

Ok, I think I've caught up to it.

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[Justaphase]

Ok, I think I've caught up to it.

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The MC also said how he became friends with other troubled teens, which it turned out wasn't good for any of them and it seems like they got into trouble together. I think that the MC losing his virginity early thing most likely came from that, a bunch of teenagers trying to act older than they were due to the traumas of their past. You see alot of that in real life sadly, looking for comfort and connection with friends or forming toxic relationships.
I'm not sure that the developer is going to go down the incest route even if it is just stepmother, he has even stated here a few times how he won't be and that is one of the benefits of having an orphan MC.
Sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth there or making assumptions cicadaNGB

 

[MichhLopz]

Hello, an incredible game! The graphics are amazing, and the story is really interesting. I also like the idea that it’s not a harem. I hope to spend more time with Ava or Imogen. Greetings from Argentina!

 

[Ciaran8023]

Honestly, not played through it all, but off to a good start. Kinda enjoy games that has a bit of a slowburn with characters and doesn't immediately jump into shit.

I'll be keeping an eye on this for sure.

 

[cicadaNGB]

Ok, I think I've caught up to it.

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The MC also said how he became friends with other troubled teens, which it turned out wasn't good for any of them and it seems like they got into trouble together. I think that the MC losing his virginity early thing most likely came from that, a bunch of teenagers trying to act older than they were due to the traumas of their past. You see alot of that in real life sadly, looking for comfort and connection with friends or forming toxic relationships.
I'm not sure that the developer is going to go down the incest route even if it is just stepmother, he has even stated here a few times how he won't be and that is one of the benefits of having an orphan MC.
Sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth there or making assumptions cicadaNGB

Won't confirm or deny anything here obviously bc spoilers, but both comments were interesting to read. And it's kind of nice to know that there's enough that's been said so far for people to have multiple different but valid theories about what's coming. Helps me know that I'm not being too obvious about things so far that everyone's coming to the same conclusion.

I will say I'm not particularly trying to surprise anyone with where things are going. It was more so that I wanted the reveal of information to be gradual as we go build to a certain point in the story. Where some people could piece everything together if they're paying attention (possibly even predict what's coming exactly, who knows), but others might miss some stuff and expect less of what's to come.

 

[cicadaNGB]

Honestly, not played through it all, but off to a good start. Kinda enjoy games that has a bit of a slowburn with characters and doesn't immediately jump into shit.

I'll be keeping an eye on this for sure.

Thanks for playing, I'm always appreciative of new people trying the game out. I'm hopeful that you'll continue to enjoy it as we go on

 

[Ciaran8023]

Thanks for playing, I'm always appreciative of new people trying the game out. I'm hopeful that you'll continue to enjoy it as we go on

With the way you're cooking, I don't doubt that I'll enjoy it.
As it so often happens, the past can catch up with you and I have a feeling that it'll come around for our MC, and I am actually really looking forward to it with how things have been written thus far. I think this is the one MC where I'm interested in knowing more of the story, partially because I can relate to him a bit, but also because it's definitely a more unorthodox approach to an MC's backstory in both storytelling style (what with it being very ominously hinted at and MC having trauma responses) and narrative use compared to a lot of AVN's out there.

 

[cicadaNGB]

With the way you're cooking, I don't doubt that I'll enjoy it.
As it so often happens, the past can catch up with you and I have a feeling that it'll come around for our MC, and I am actually really looking forward to it with how things have been written thus far. I think this is the one MC where I'm interested in knowing more of the story, partially because I can relate to him a bit, but also because it's definitely a more unorthodox approach to an MC's backstory in both storytelling style (what with it being very ominously hinted at and MC having trauma responses) and narrative use compared to a lot of AVN's out there.

Yeah, I knew coming into the this project that I was going to be approaching some aspects of the storytelling in a slightly different way than a lot of AVNs. I wanted there to be a lot of subtext that needs to be understood in parts where I'm deliberately withholding information, in addition to the fact that you only see the MC's point of view of things (as in there's no cutaway scenes of other characters where the MC isn't present that give additional information about them / see what they're thinking; I wanted the player to be restricted to knowing only ever as much as the MC would know).

I was optimistic and ambitious, really, with how I wanted to tell the story (and still am). I started planning the game about 6 months before making the first render, because I wanted to be sure I knew where everything was going and that I'd have no regrets or missed opportunities in early chapters. So far, this has been going pretty well. But I am always a bit worried that some things (moments in the story) just won't work as well as I want them to (or as they do in my head). I'm hopeful that things won't fall flat, essentially. Particularly when, as I've alluded to before, I am very aware of the creative risks I'm going to be taking later in the story, and that it might alienate some players who have certain expectations of AVNs. But we'll see. I'm just trying my best, really, and hope that other people end up liking what I'm making as much as I do.

Again, thanks for giving the game a try, I'm really glad you're enjoying it so far, it means a lot

 

[johnmnf692]

I knew that my girl Mia wouldn't touch Chase. Mia is clearly a friendly person with a heart of gold and some guys will try and take advantage of that, so it was nice to see her stand up to him at the end of the last episode.
Honestly the whole NTR thing is just crazy to me and people take it way too far. Even if she did hook up with Chase, Mia and the MC are not even in a relationship, hell they haven't even been on a date or anything, so she is free to do whatever she wants IMO.
A male MC in pretty much every AVN I've played can fuck around like crazy, but if a girl even kisses another guy that's not the MC she's called a slut and the game is NTR. Such a double standard honestly and it drives me crazy.

That's what NTR is. A LI having a past before the game is one thing, but actively being intimate with male characters other than the MC, during the game (especially if it's on screen) is NTR. There's an argument to be made about this if the LI is married and is still sleeping with her husband off-screen, but if a LI is actively hooking up with guys during a game it is unambiguously NTR.

It's not a double standard because it's not real life. The MC is a conduit for the player, whilst a LI is an NPC. The player, and by extension the MC, needs to be able to interact with all of the characters so that they can make an informed decision on which LI to pursue or not to pursue. NPCs do not have this need. There's no reason for a LI to interact with some other guy, in an intimate manner, except for NTR or adjacent reasons. Some games also do punish the player for cheating or "playing the field".

 

[johnmnf692]

You're probably right on that first point. I didn't go to college in America, even, so I won't pretend I know exactly what it's like. The base idea of the story, at least the college side of things, spawned from those 90s/00s American sex comedies. They're my like guilty pleasure films. So while I've said I wanted to ground the story and game in a certain level of reality and make the world feel real, some aspects will be a little sensationalised. If you're curious, 3 of the 8 main LIs are virgins. But like most of the sorority girls aren't, so your point is still valid.

Appreciate the comment about the interactions between other characters, a big part of the game is going to kind of involve the idea that everyone has their own lives and goals their getting on with. While the MC is the main character, he's the main character of his own life, not everyone else's.

And I always like looking at people's rankings, as a dev it's fascinating to see who people do and don't like.

Would you mind stating specifically which of the LIs are virgins? Personally, in a single LI game, I have very little interest in non-virgin LIs unless they're of exceptionally higher quality than the virgin(s).

 

[Ciaran8023]

Would you mind stating specifically which of the LIs are virgins? Personally, in a single LI game, I have very little interest in non-virgin LIs unless they're of exceptionally higher quality than the virgin(s).

I'm not going to lie, that is such a fucking absurd sentence to type unironically that I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
This just exudes "nice guy" vibes and it's a bit unnerving.

 

[johnmnf692]

I'm not going to lie, that is such a fucking absurd sentence to type unironically that I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
This just exudes "nice guy" vibes and it's a bit unnerving.

Are you slow? A "nice guy" will take whatever he can get his grubby little hands on. I'm specifically telling you that I'm not interested in settling.

If a game forces you to pick only 1 girl, I have no interest in playing Captain save a hoe.

 

[cicadaNGB]

That's what NTR is. A LI having a past before the game is one thing, but actively being intimate with male characters other than the MC, during the game (especially if it's on screen) is NTR. There's an argument to be made about this if the LI is married and is still sleeping with her husband off-screen, but if a LI is actively hooking up with guys during a game it is unambiguously NTR.

It's not a double standard because it's not real life. The MC is a conduit for the player, whilst a LI is an NPC. The player, and by extension the MC, needs to be able to interact with all of the characters so that they can make an informed decision on which LI to pursue or not to pursue. NPCs do not have this need. There's no reason for a LI to interact with some other guy, in an intimate manner, except for NTR or adjacent reasons. Some games also do punish the player for cheating or "playing the field".

Now see what you've written here is a fascinating insight into this topic, and makes me realize why my opinion and approach is the way it is.

The idea that the LIs and other characters are NPCs, fundamentally, is true, right? They are non-playable characters. However, I don't believe the means they need to exist in limbo unless otherwise interacted with by the player, because to me the non-playable characters (and their actions) are as important as the player character, even in AVNs. Because, yes, while the MC is a conduit for the player and they are following things from his perspective, that doesn't, to me, mean that other characters are less important. I've mentioned this before, but when making this game I wanted the player to realize that the characters have their own lives and goals they're getting on with, and that while the MC is the main character, he's the main character of his own life, not everyone's else's. I felt like that was necessary to create a compelling story. I feel like it's hard to care about a character that feels one-dimensional, like they only exist to the extent that they're a part of the MC's life.

I'm not saying you're wrong or that my way of thinking is right, because at the end of the day it's just an opinion. But what you said did help me realize why there can be such a divergence of opinion for some people on the prominence of other characters in AVNs. 'It's not real life' - no, but in my case I want to present things relatively close to reality because, for me, that creates a more compelling story, more compelling characters. And that's my main priority.

And then to answer your later question, the 3 LIs who are virgins are Alice, Bonnie, Ellie.

 

[johnmnf692]

Now see what you've written here is a fascinating insight into this topic, and makes me realize why my opinion and approach is the way it is.

The idea that the LIs and other characters are NPCs, fundamentally, is true, right? They are non-playable characters. However, I don't believe the means they need to exist in limbo unless otherwise interacted with by the player, because to me the non-playable characters (and their actions) are as important as the player character, even in AVNs. Because, yes, while the MC is a conduit for the player and they are following things from his perspective, that doesn't, to me, mean that other characters are less important. I've mentioned this before, but when making this game I wanted the player to realize that the characters have their own lives and goals they're getting on with, and that while the MC is the main character, he's the main character of his own life, not everyone's else's. I felt like that was necessary to create a compelling story. I feel like it's hard to care about a character that feels one-dimensional, like they only exist to the extent that they're a part of the MC's life.

I'm not saying you're wrong or that my way of thinking is right, because at the end of the day it's just an opinion. But what you said did help me realize why there can be such a divergence of opinion for some people on the prominence of other characters in AVNs. 'It's not real life' - no, but in my case I want to present things relatively close to reality because, for me, that creates a more compelling story, more compelling characters. And that's my main priority.

And then to answer your later question, the 3 LIs who are virgins are Alice, Bonnie, Ellie.

Actually, I completely agree with your idea about NPCs, LIs included, living their own lives. That's worldbuilding and character writing 101. The only area which I don't think this should factor into for LIs, is specifically to do with intimacy. I think LIs should have their own lives, during the course of a game, including every aspect of life except romantic/intimate pursuits, which should be exclusive to their interactions with the MC.

Can there be exceptions to this rule? Sort of. It would be reasonable to have a LI who is married still being intimate with her husband, up to a point. That said, I also don't think there's any real benefit in showing that or talking about it, unless one is making an NTR (or adjacent) game.

Thanks for responding and good luck with the game.