VN Ren'Py Nothing Is Forever [v0.7.3] [MrSilverLust]

[JollyGeorgieM]

This is one of the few places online where I, as a dev, can get a lot of feedback to know what is working or not, and where your concerns about the future are. That's valuable and very appreciated. So, thank you all that take your time to write lengthy comments/reviews that let me know your opinion on several points of the game.

Having played through the game multiple times now during my self-imposed proofreading quest, I admit I spent some time after each run looking ahead and speculating a bit. If this is valuable to you, I'm happy to share my thoughts! But hopefully what will be of more value is whatever kind of discussion doing so can generate. Before I say anything further though, I just want to mention that it's really awesome of you to be open to feedback! I know that can be tough - brutal, even - or a real slog sometimes. So kudos to you, good sir!

Alrighty, boys, if we're talking about wild speculation, I think a good way to go about it is to peek at purchasable skills and character personalities. I consider the purchasable skills as fair guiding lights for the future of routes since they are intrinsically tied to each other; the question of "Who's affiliated with this kink?" is inherently relevant. For the sake of the discussion, I'll treat this like a roulette table, where the skill trees are the board and we all get chips with one main LI each on them. While of course the skills crossover and are blended among multiple routes, what we're gambling on here is: which character feels like the primary one associated with each tier 3 skill? There are 8 LIs (What? 8? Yes... we'll get to that) and 16 skills to choose from. Place your bets!

Spoiler: For Reference - the 16 "Hardcore" Skills

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Spoiler: My Bets and Why I Say 8 LIs Instead of 7

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Anyways, those are my guesses. Below is my logic, as well as my impressions of the LIs and some of my musings on where they'll go from where they are now. Obviously, we can’t predict the exact events MrSilverLust will put the characters through (we could try, but I won't bother with that), so this is pure “soft” speculation - a vague guess at the primary flavors of the arcs, rather than pinpointing the hard plot points that lead the characters along those arcs. I want to stress that these are simply “interesting possibilities” rather than “what I expect to see” - I think it's important to make that distinction. I’d be happy to see everyone else’s thoughts too: I’m not asserting anything as fact except what I pull straight from the game, so please don’t treat this as though I am. Your guess is as good as mine on where things are headed! Also, saying what we like or hope for can be useful to devs, but imposing expectations would be counterproductive. So, I hope we stay firmly in the realm of speculation and avoid making any demands.

Fair warning, while there aren't multiple 10-page essays lurking below, each character does get at least a paragraph. If you don't want to "waste your time" reading all that... by all means please don't lol. This is supposed to be fun. If it ain't your cup of tea, no worries! Thanks for reading this far, have a good one!

One last note for clarity: I will refer to each character’s "Red Path" and "Blue Path" to distinguish Dominant and Submissive playthroughs. The dev has stated there won’t really be neutral ground due to the exhaustion of creating yet another path for every character, so I won’t bother musing over the admittedly curious cases of mixing Red and Blue significant choices in a character’s route (Jen has some of this, for example). I’ll stick to either pure Red or pure Blue.

Spoiler: Emma

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Spoiler: Jen

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Spoiler: Deb

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Spoiler: Lea

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Spoiler: Kim

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Spoiler: Bri

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Spoiler: Olivia

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Spoiler: Mel

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Whew! After all the proofreading and now all the theorycrafting, I think I've finally shook the game's hold on me for a bit. Still, I think it's a testament to how compelling the game is that I was motivated to invest perhaps a bit too much time over the last few days to thinking and talking about it! Great stuff! Now I'm looking forward to everyone else's thoughts. Anyone feeling like betting against me? Where would you put the Cuckquean Crown? What surprises do you think Bri, Olivia, and Mel have in store for us? Please share!

They say the house always wins when it comes to gambling - in this case, I truly hope that's the case. Best regards, MrSilverLust ! And thanks for your hard work, osanaiko ! I sincerely hope you continue to enjoy creating this game - it's a blast to play! Now, to find some way to hibernate until the next release...

 

[Mikey_Boy101]

Obviously Jen must be the cuckquean.
It only makes sense for a chess queen.

Nah its gotta be Emma. She gets a kink hint when Olivia wants you to flirt with some girls at the bar. She looks jealous and ends up sitting backdown while you and Olivia dance.

 

[iC4v3M4n]

Just finished up chapter 2 and i gotta say i'm genuinely surprised at how few ppl refused Deb & Carl's offer, only 13% according the Patreon stats at the end of the chapter.

Pretty much from the first few interaction with Deb i was like, uh oh i really like this girl but this is never gonna work, we are just to similar. In a relationship we would both end up trying take the dominant role and that would just end up in a disaster. Even the dev mentioned it on the previous page and those were my thoughts exactly

Depends on what you call path. There will be more scenes with her even if the MC is not submissive. Just don't expect that to lead to a "happy ever after" ending.

But like i said i do really like her, so the only reason why i would consider their offer would be to make Deb happy but that would mean going the sub route and i can't give her that cause that's not me, like i litterally couldn't i didn't have enough sensitive points to unlock the skills even if i wanted to. That leaves the cucking Carl route and that didn't sound like a good idea for several reasons, first off like the MC mentions they both seem to want different things out of this and going along with it would probably not be a good thing for their relationship in the long run, from the observations he already made and being a psychologist he would know this. Secondly, Deb is not only a friend but also a co-worker, doing something like this with her, something she's doesn't even really like, could make things very awkward both as friends and colleagues. And lastly, going back to the points system and this being sort of an rpg, i'd pretty much have to use all the manly points i have to unlock the necessary skills for a relationship that i don't see having any future to begin with, i'd rather keep the points for girls that i do have a chance with to actually build something (like Emma or Lea ). Because ultimately i see this as being a story about somebody who's trying to do better and not make the same mistakes again, professionally as well as in his personal life, it's pretty obvious he's feeling lonely and wants to find someone to be together with. You don't have to play it that way offcourse but that's the way i see it at least.

So yeah in the end it was pretty easy choice to refuse their offer, but i guess i'm way in the minority on this...

I do have one question for dev if he happens to read this, what does it mean to have a crush on someone? Like in gameterms, does it influence anything? Cause i had to make a choice there at the end and i'm still very much torn between Emma & Lea atm so i didn't know what the right thing to do was, choose one of them or is it better to make no choice at all if you're not sure yet?

 

[gregers]

I do have one question for dev if he happens to read this, what does it mean to have a crush on someone? Like in gameterms, does it influence anything?

The dev had answered that repeatedly upstream: it gives you an opportunity to unlock the "Sweetness" skill for free with that character (if it fits the story) but other than that the impact is limited, at least for now.

Edit: Hang on, re-reading your comment you were talking about the menu at the end of the current version, weren't you? In that case never mind me, sorry!

But speaking of those menus, I was slightly annoyed that in the similar menu in chapter 4, the only alternative to being in love with one of the girls is for the MC to believe himself incapable of love. (Don't have the game to hand, don't remember the exact phrasing.)

Rather than, say, "some of these girls seem pretty nice but we've only just started exploring things so let's hold off on the love-talk for a moment", or even "these girls are nice enough, but there isn't one that appeals specifically to me and that's cool."

I choose to believe it's just the MC's delusions or trauma or whatever speaking, but it still seemed an odd leap. I still haven't seen a great in-game explanation for why he's so clueless when it comes to relationships and sex.

 

[Æthil]

This is one of the few places online where I, as a dev, can get a lot of feedback to know what is working or not, and where your concerns about the future are. That's valuable and very appreciated. So, thank you all that take your time to write lengthy comments/reviews that let me know your opinion on several points of the game.

I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised by this amazing VN. The beginning hit a bit too close to home for me, but that made it so much more believable and relatable. I've read tons of AVD, but that's probably the first one where I could see myself in the MC's shoes. And I'm sure I'm not the only one and there's plenty here who, like the MC, made stupid decisions that changed the course of their life, has or had mental health issues because of it, isolated themselves and pushed away friends who tried to help them. So kudos MrSilverLust, that was masterfully done.

Although I really liked the storytelling, how every character felt real and how their problems were relatable, what really surprised me is how the different kinds of kinks were incorporated in the story while making it interesting and believable, especially when it comes to BDSM.

When a Dom MC starts his sexual adventure with Jen, they have a talk about safety and opt in for a traffic light system, they talk about what they want, their limits and after the sex scene, the MC takes the time to lay down and talk with Jen about the scene they just did. It was my first time seeing safety and boundary talk and aftercare in a game featuring BDSM.

Then you have the femdom with Deb. No safety or boundary talk here, but it wasn't really necessary in those contexts considering the MC was never bound and could get himself out of the scene at any time and it wasn't an emotionally charged scene anyway. Not much aftercare after the spanking scene but I think I remember her at least inquiring if he was okay when she admitted she went too far. So still very well done.

But what's great about Deb and Emma is that their personality is not tied to their sexual preferences or their kinks. Sure, they have strong personalities, but the commonality stops there. They have their own insecurities and they put some distance between how they are in the bedroom and how they are in real life. Emma even mention that she didn't mean anything she said to the MC during the crossdressing scene. I single those two out because it's a problem I've noticed in femdom characters in particular. In every game that I've played or erotica that I've read featuring femdom, there was no distinction between the kinks and the personality of the dominant women. Femdom characters are always bitchy, authoritarian, have no respect whatsoever for the sub and treat them like trash outside of a scene, which is not representative of reality. So once again MrSilverLust, kudos for deciding to go for believable instead of falling in the power fantasy trap, that's quite refreshing.

I don't have much critics to offer but I do want to nitpick about Kim and the cafe scene.

Spoiler

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I'm ending my long post with a thank you to jufot, for I would probably never have found this gem of a VN if it weren't for their [Personal Rec] thread.

 

[Mikey_Boy101]

That would be very sad for Emma.
First her feminist identity gets destroyed by having "consensual sex" with MC.
Then she gets cucked on top of it...

I wouldn't really consider it sad. Sure in this chapter Emma had fun after singing on stage in a skimpy outfit, getting catcalled, and doesn't feel totally humiliated by the experience. The experience doesn't destroy her feminist ideals but maybe it changed her idea of what a feminist is. As long as the kink is talked about before exploring the kink together(like with all of the other girls so far) and both parties consent to the kink then there shouldn't be anything sad about it. Having a certain type of kink or kinks shouldn't define who you are.

 

[iC4v3M4n]

The dev had answered that repeatedly upstream: it gives you an opportunity to unlock the "Sweetness" skill for free with that character (if it fits the story) but other than that the impact is limited, at least for now.

Edit: Hang on, re-reading your comment you were talking about the menu at the end of the current version, weren't you? In that case never mind me, sorry!

No, no it's the first time i'm playing and i just ended chapter 2 where you had to chose a girl as your crush with the inner demon thing. So i just wanted to know what that meant and i probably haven't seen the menu you're talking about at the end of the current version yet, i assume. But thanks for answering the question, should have probably read more of the previous posts if it had already been answered

You're surprised people accepted a sex scene in an adult game? I bet the Patreon results would change by playthrough, most people are probably trying different choices as they replay the game.

Also kind of weird to me when people can't separate fantasy from reality. Like I never actually thought I was jumping on turtles as an Italian plumber or that I am the Dragonborn, it's just a video game. Who cares.

That's something i had considered yeah, that the poll was taken at the release of chapter 2 and hasn't been updated since so ppl probably just wanted to see the sex scene for that chapter and the results might be quite different now.

And ofcourse i can seperate fantasy from reality but that doesn't mean i don't like to get into character a bit. If i imagine a character a certain way i'm also gonna make choices based on what i think the character's personality would be like, not just what unlocks the next sex scene or gives me the most points or whatever, especially in a rpg. It's in the name isn't it, role playing game... But hey that's the great thing about games, everyone can play however they like

 

[EndlessNights]

I think JollyGeorgieM was right on when he said Nothing Is Forever has eight love interests, not seven. I think he's also probably right when he says Mel is going to be that extra love interest. It's hard to explain her presence on the Lovemeter otherwise. Still, I thought it might be fun to talk about who we'd like to be that last possible LI.

We don't know much about Mel, but she was clearly very important to the MC and I'm sure there's a lot of story to tell about their failed relationship. Clearly, the MC still thinks about her, and it's quite likely they both feel there's some unfinished business between the two of them because of the way they were basically forced to break up to protect the MC's career. I think it's likely that Mel's return will be the storm that was referenced in the last chapter. I'm curious to know what it is about Mel that made the MC break down the barriers and breech his professional code of ethics. Was it love, lust, or a combination of the two? How does Mel compare with Jen? On Jen's path, is the MC basically just reenacting his past relationship? (I hope that's not the case.) If you have Kim as an outright enemy, having Mel around is going to be a little inconvenient...we can definitely expect some drama on that front I'm sure.

My personal preference for new LI would be Professor Cunningham. I just feel like the dynamics between her and the MC are very different from any of the other relationships in the game which would make it very interesting. Every other character is around the same age or younger than the MC; Cunni is significantly older. She's also unlike any of the other women in a position of authority and power relative to our dude. She would be the one grappling with ethical concerns about entering a relationship with the MC, her former student. She would have the mental barriers she'd need to break down in order to give it a go. How would we convince her? She's told us that she's been tempted before by a patient, but she probably said no back then and professionalism and ethics seem to be very important to her. I'm also curious why the MC seems to throw shade on the professor from time to time when he talks to Emma about her. Cunni really doesn't seem like a bitch...to the contrary, she seems like a kind and caring person. Was she really so bad back in the day or is she hiding a mean streak? It also sounds like she's been sort of a mentor and patron to the MC dating back to his time as a student so his resentment is all the more baffling. I like that Professor Cunningham is at or above the MC's level intellectually and in terms of psychological expertise. They have interesting conversations, and he can't lecture to her from a point of superior knowledge as he sometimes does with other characters. Theoretically, he and Emma could be having good conversations on psychology like that, but the way she tends to make everything personal gets in the way.

Another outside the box choice for new LI would be Paige. I thought the moment when the MC compliments her was adorable. When she returns to their table afterwards, she still has a sweet smile on her face. Paige has a significantly different body type from any of the other characters so she'd bring some variety on that front. (I'd say one of the downsides to having Mel come back is she does look similar to Emma and Olivia...I wonder if that look is meant to be the MC's canonical type.) I had this idea that Paige might find Emma's attitude towards her patronizing and that she'd actually jump at the chance to steal the guy Emma likes/hates away from her. Maybe that could even be one of her fetishes. I'd enjoy helping build up Paige's self-confidence...perhaps it'd feel a little similar to Lea's route in that respect, but I imagine Paige has been treated much worse by other people and may have a steeper hill to climb.

Finally, if there are any SpaceCorps XXX fans around here I'd just like to say that there is no eighth love interest.

 

[Frosty2000]

Having played through the game multiple times now during my self-imposed proofreading quest, I admit I spent some time after each run looking ahead and speculating a bit. If this is valuable to you, I'm happy to share my thoughts! But hopefully what will be of more value is whatever kind of discussion doing so can generate. Before I say anything further though, I just want to mention that it's really awesome of you to be open to feedback! I know that can be tough - brutal, even - or a real slog sometimes. So kudos to you, good sir!

Alrighty, boys, if we're talking about wild speculation, I think a good way to go about it is to peek at purchasable skills and character personalities. I consider the purchasable skills as fair guiding lights for the future of routes since they are intrinsically tied to each other; the question of "Who's affiliated with this kink?" is inherently relevant. For the sake of the discussion, I'll treat this like a roulette table, where the skill trees are the board and we all get chips with one main LI each on them. While of course the skills crossover and are blended among multiple routes, what we're gambling on here is: which character feels like the primary one associated with each tier 3 skill? There are 8 LIs (What? 8? Yes... we'll get to that) and 16 skills to choose from. Place your bets!

Spoiler: For Reference - the 16 "Hardcore" Skills

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Spoiler: My Bets and Why I Say 8 LIs Instead of 7

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Anyways, those are my guesses. Below is my logic, as well as my impressions of the LIs and some of my musings on where they'll go from where they are now. Obviously, we can’t predict the exact events MrSilverLust will put the characters through (we could try, but I won't bother with that), so this is pure “soft” speculation - a vague guess at the primary flavors of the arcs, rather than pinpointing the hard plot points that lead the characters along those arcs. I want to stress that these are simply “interesting possibilities” rather than “what I expect to see” - I think it's important to make that distinction. I’d be happy to see everyone else’s thoughts too: I’m not asserting anything as fact except what I pull straight from the game, so please don’t treat this as though I am. Your guess is as good as mine on where things are headed! Also, saying what we like or hope for can be useful to devs, but imposing expectations would be counterproductive. So, I hope we stay firmly in the realm of speculation and avoid making any demands.

Fair warning, while there aren't multiple 10-page essays lurking below, each character does get at least a paragraph. If you don't want to "waste your time" reading all that... by all means please don't lol. This is supposed to be fun. If it ain't your cup of tea, no worries! Thanks for reading this far, have a good one!

One last note for clarity: I will refer to each character’s "Red Path" and "Blue Path" to distinguish Dominant and Submissive playthroughs. The dev has stated there won’t really be neutral ground due to the exhaustion of creating yet another path for every character, so I won’t bother musing over the admittedly curious cases of mixing Red and Blue significant choices in a character’s route (Jen has some of this, for example). I’ll stick to either pure Red or pure Blue.

Spoiler: Emma

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Spoiler: Jen

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Spoiler: Deb

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Spoiler: Lea

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Spoiler: Kim

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Spoiler: Bri

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Spoiler: Olivia

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Spoiler: Mel

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Whew! After all the proofreading and now all the theorycrafting, I think I've finally shook the game's hold on me for a bit. Still, I think it's a testament to how compelling the game is that I was motivated to invest perhaps a bit too much time over the last few days to thinking and talking about it! Great stuff! Now I'm looking forward to everyone else's thoughts. Anyone feeling like betting against me? Where would you put the Cuckquean Crown? What surprises do you think Bri, Olivia, and Mel have in store for us? Please share!

They say the house always wins when it comes to gambling - in this case, I truly hope that's the case. Best regards, MrSilverLust ! And thanks for your hard work, osanaiko ! I sincerely hope you continue to enjoy creating this game - it's a blast to play! Now, to find some way to hibernate until the next release...

From chapter 2 onwards I actually wrote MrSilverLust directly my ranking, impressions and speculations about all the love interests. Your speculation is pretty close to what I was thinking too. Only wrote about the sub/blue path though, since I personally don't care about the dom path.
My ranking and impressions after the last chapter were these:

Spoiler: 1.Deb

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Spoiler: 2.Emma

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Spoiler: 3.Lea

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Spoiler: 4.Kim

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Spoiler: 5.Jen

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Spoiler: 6.Bri

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Spoiler: 7.Olivia

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Spoiler: 8.Mel

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[SteveНandjobs]

Another outside the box choice for new LI would be Paige. I thought the moment when the MC compliments her was adorable. When she returns to their table afterwards, she still has a sweet smile on her face. Paige has a significantly different body type from any of the other characters so she'd bring some variety on that front. (I'd say one of the downsides to having Mel come back is she does look similar to Emma and Olivia...I wonder if that look is meant to be the MC's canonical type.) I had this idea that Paige might find Emma's attitude towards her patronizing and that she'd actually jump at the chance to steal the guy Emma likes/hates away from her. Maybe that could even be one of her fetishes. I'd enjoy helping build up Paige's self-confidence...perhaps it'd feel a little similar to Lea's route in that respect, but I imagine Paige has been treated much worse by other people and may have a steeper hill to climb.

I support Paige, I also liked her, make Dom out of her or open it in her and some kind of fetishes would be interesting, although due to her non-standard appearance, she may not go to everyone.

 

[MrSilverLust]

But hopefully what will be of more value is whatever kind of discussion doing so can generate.

I’m even a bit afraid to comment because the dev’s answers are always so definitive and stop further discussions. Besides, I’ve seen people saying as matter of fact that the dev said “blablabla” when I’m pretty sure I didn’t: it was either some misunderstanding, misremembering, or I simply, in an attempt to not spoil further plots, talked a bit too cryptically and then someone may think I meant to say X, when I didn’t... so, I’ve grown a bit more weary of what I write and will try to not comment too much about future plots.

On the other hand, I do like to participate in the discussions, answer questions and even kind of use all of your opinions to “brainstorm” future content. The truth is I have blind spots and it sometimes happens that I read some comment and think “yeah, I didn’t think about it that way before, good point”.

Case in point:

It tells a lot about her personality, but it also makes her look so very stupid (when she actually wants to show how much smarter and cunning she is).

That has nothing to do with how smart Kim is, but rather the guy that wrote that scene

Another outside the box choice for new LI would be Paige.

I support Paige, I also liked her,

The very first version of “Nothing is Forever” had a gallery screen with two more “cards” just containing question marks. The scripts also already had characters codes for someone named Paige and Alex. At the time, I didn’t know if they’d be romanceable characters or not, but I left the door open.

If they were to be added, I had a plot idea for Alex that would happen in the “holyday chapter”. I won’t say it because I might still use it in some future project, but the main thing is that she would be a trans character. While starting working on chapter 4, I quickly realized that there was no space for her and ruled that idea out.

Any Paige plot is also almost ruled out by me at this point, but not 100%. It’s just too difficult to find enough screen time for everyone. There are already some girls in desperate need of more of that, I’m not sure that adding more LIs would be a good thing. And I don’t like that much what other games do with “side girls”, where they are just there to provide some easy sex scenes. If I’m introducing more girls with lewd scenes, they’d have to be developed properly.

But yeah, because they’d be so different from all the others, Paige (body type), Professor Cunningham (age), or a trans-girl, they would definitely bring different things to the table. On the other hand, I also like the idea that there are girls in the world that don’t throw themselves at the MC.


Oh well, so much for not wanting to talk about future content...

 

[Frosty2000]

...
The very first version of “Nothing is Forever” had a gallery screen with two more “cards” just containing question marks. The scripts also already had characters codes for someone named Paige and Alex. At the time, I didn’t know if they’d be romanceable characters or not, but I left the door open.

If they were to be added, I had a plot idea for Alex that would happen in the “holyday chapter”. I won’t say it because I might still use it in some future project, but the main thing is that she would be a trans character. While starting working on chapter 4, I quickly realized that there was no space for her and ruled that idea out.

Any Paige plot is also almost ruled out by me at this point, but not 100%. It’s just too difficult to find enough screen time for everyone. There are already some girls in desperate need of more of that, I’m not sure that adding more LIs would be a good thing. And I don’t like that much what other games do with “side girls”, where they are just there to provide some easy sex scenes. If I’m introducing more girls with lewd scenes, they’d have to be developed properly.

But yeah, because they’d be so different from all the others, Paige (body type), Professor Cunningham (age), or a trans-girl, they would definitely bring different things to the table. On the other hand, I also like the idea that there are girls in the world that don’t throw themselves at the MC.


Oh well, so much for not wanting to talk about future content...

I definitely want to see you create more games once you are finished with "Nothing is Forever". So yeah no need to mash everything into the current one. Only exception I would personally lobby for would be with Professor Cunningham.

 

[WarriorSteel]

I'm lobbying for a trans girl!

 

[desmosome]

Another outside the box choice for new LI would be Paige. I thought the moment when the MC compliments her was adorable. When she returns to their table afterwards, she still has a sweet smile on her face.

But I told that fatty to exercise...

 

[Z - Reborn]

I'm lobbying for a trans girl!

I'm lobbying against it.

 

[WarriorSteel]

I'm lobbying against it.

Why? The inclusion of one wouldn't affect you as everything in this game is optional.

 

[Z - Reborn]

Why? The inclusion of one wouldn't affect you as everything in this game is optional.

Takes time away from the real deal.

 

[EndlessNights]

But I told that fatty to exercise...

That choice opens up the Thin Paige route which is coincidentally the only route in the game solely focused on ball torture. The great thing about a branching game like this one is that your choices really do matter and, yes, Paige does indeed like to use branches.

 

[van321]

Emma as a sub is so well-written. I picked her as my crush and I'm so glad I did. The feelings she has for MC are genuine, but she also has these conflicting feelings between her unyielding values and her desire to express how she feels and do what she wants, made into a gigantic clash by her forceful personality. Dominant MC, who has an equally forceful personality but also a gentle touch, bringing that clash into balance shows great compatibility.

With other love interests, the compatibility seems mostly sexual, or compatibility hasn't really shown itself yet. With them, it's obvious.

 

[dolfe67]

In general, the dom/sub stuff is pretty well written. I'm playing mostly for the femdom, there is enough maledom in other games but not enough femdom, especially femdom to my taste (not the ultra agressive ones where they treat men as shit without real consent)