VN Ren'Py Nothing Is Forever [v0.7.3] [MrSilverLust]

[PrinceRV]

It wouldn't make much sense for her to break up with Carl and then start a relationship with exactly the same problems: both partners not sharing the same kinks. There will be ways for a dominant MC to have more scenes with Deb, but don't expect that they will marry, have cute little blonde babies with blue eyes, and live happy ever after.

I finally get what is bugging me about Dom!Route with Deb. It's about MC having a crush on her. In my game their story was like this:
1) MC has a crush on his friend Deb, who has problems with her BF
2) MC sleeps with Deb to get closer to her and explore kinks in general
3) MC comforts Deb when she's down, but doesn't take care of her feet because he's not submissive enough
4) MC has no longer a crush on Deb
5) MC sleeps with Deb after her breakup with Carl and cleans her messy appartment

I think I just got disappointed at MC, because he didn't even try to ask her on a date or anything. Why he has no option to develop feelings for her further? I understand that it's probably the issue with chapter 1 giving us a useless option to have a crush on her on Dom!Route, but still, I wish MC just got rejected instead of simply not giving a damn anymore.

P.S. Not a criticism for sure, the game is amazing the way it is, I'm just whining about not getting the girl
P.S. I'm really curious what you think about this: Would Deb agree to go on a date with Dom!MC, if he invited her? Or is it just his submissive side that she's really attracted to? That would explain, why she can't be like Jen (sub/sub relationship), since sex is fundamentally important to her after the breakup with Carl.

 

[Jack Townsend]

This is a very fascinating game. The many different psychological viewpoints, sub-plots, characters, and decisions got me instantly hooked. Right now, I'm playing as a mix of Honorable and Manly. Makes me feel like a knight from Game of Thrones.

 

[Jack Townsend]

I finally get what is bugging me about Dom!Route with Deb. It's about MC having a crush on her. In my game their story was like this:
1) MC has a crush on his friend Deb, who has problems with her BF
2) MC sleeps with Deb to get closer to her and explore kinks in general
3) MC comforts Deb when she's down, but doesn't take care of her feet because he's not submissive enough
4) MC has no longer a crush on Deb
5) MC sleeps with Deb after her breakup with Carl and cleans her messy appartment

I think I just got disappointed at MC, because he didn't even try to ask her on a date or anything. Why he has no option to develop feelings for her further? I understand that it's probably the issue with chapter 1 giving us a useless option to have a crush on her on Dom!Route, but still, I wish MC just got rejected instead of simply not giving a damn anymore.

P.S. Not a criticism for sure, the game is amazing the way it is, I'm just whining about not getting the girl
P.S. I'm really curious what you think about this: Would Deb agree to go on a date with Dom!MC, if he invited her? Or is it just his submissive side that she's really attracted to? That would explain, why she can't be like Jen (sub/sub relationship), since sex is fundamentally important to her after the breakup with Carl.

I think there's some potential for a Manly MC romance. Part of the problem with the Carl and Deb relationship, was that Carl couldn't commit to a path. He didn't want to be completely submissive to her. But didn't have the will or the skill to be dominant with her either. He always got off on other guys trying to dominate her. Reason he got off on that, was because they were trying to do what he himself wouldn't or couldn't do. I think the MC was really the first man to lead Deb successfully in sex. Most other men (including Carl) were either too scared or too lazy to do it. So, this may be new and exciting territory for a woman who is use to being the dominant one. There's real potential here for a relationship to be explored. I think it would be similar to Emma's, but without the toxicity.

 

[Porthas]

 

[Jack Townsend]

View attachment 2184332

View attachment 2184373

Be Manly and use Manhandle and Misogyny her. She likes hate sex so much? Become the very thing she hates the most. For her, the stronger the hate, the hotter the sex.

 

[MrSilverLust]

i tried being sub to Deb during one of my playthroughs, and you are absolutely right. it is not for everyone, and not for me. if that is an accurate portrayal of how femdoms treat their males subs, they all should be in jail. that shit is disgusting. and so is the male version.

You're probably exaggerating for effect, but if you really think that not making your partner cum after you already had your orgasm should be a crime, then we would need a lot of prisons...

As long as it is consensual, I don't see what's the problem with any kind of BDSM. We already have enough countries sending people to jail because the people in charge don't agree with their sexual choices. The FIFA World Cup is happening right now in one of such countries.

Now, if you wanna talk about all the stuff that's in half of the so-called vanilla games in this site like non-consensual sleep sex, peeping on girls undressing/showering without they knowing, parents having sex with their 18yo children, etc... if any of these things happen in real life, I do agree that they should go to jail.

 

[Kripke]

The extremely rare case when you like dev's posts in their game's thead nor less than the game itself.

 

[abgazil]

Hi MrSilverLust really enjoying the game, particularly the dominant route with Emma which is right up my alley.

I was wondering if you have any plans to make possible to select a pet name for the girls or to choose what they call you? Or is that something you think is an important enough part of their psychology / kink exploration that you'd like to develop it as part of the story

 

[vnaff]

P.S. I'm really curious what you think about this: Would Deb agree to go on a date with Dom!MC, if he invited her? Or is it just his submissive side that she's really attracted to? That would explain, why she can't be like Jen (sub/sub relationship), since sex is fundamentally important to her after the breakup with Carl.

I would say no. The answer is rather straightforward: Deb is excited by exploring her dom kink. She has learned that other things do not excite her in the long term. She likes passionate sex at the beginning of the relations - who wouldn't - but that will fade. Sex with the same partner has its sudden revivals, but that is not sustainable to match Deb's sexual drive. The most important piece of the puzzle is that she cannot respect a partner that can share her with other men in any sense. If you think about the last part, then almost all the scenarios would fall off automatically. Let us suppose that she dates devoted and loving MC that will be equal to her. To fuel their sexlife, they would need either to follow the sexwife idea (Carl needed a bull, but MC does not - he rather gets off knowing that other men desire her madly) or enable her meeting with sub men. Both paths would imply MC sharing Deb with other men (women as well, I believe, but this was not stated clearly) and hence would not work out.

I can see only one controversy here concerning the depth of Deb's dom kink. It is commonly believed that suppressed desires only grow stronger with time and get much more clear outline. This sort of rings a bell: Deb _knows_ what she wants in the first place, despite she has not been in D/s relationships before. The game hints that she has tried occasional meetings with subs, but was disappointed (she mentions that it is hard to find a good sub). In other words, she never had properly practiced her desires in real life. It might happen thus that she is really not into dom, because what she imagines she wants is not what is going to satisfy her. (The classic example is a sub man nurturing his fantasies for a long time goes with rather specific session scenario to a pro-domme and either chickens out at the last moment when he understands how extreme an encounter he is craving or gets completely dissatisfied with the whole experience, because the cane actually hurts and the tongue goes numb after ten minutes.)

Thus, I could see a transformative path for romance with Deb. If MC has really a crush on her, he goes to great lengths to let Deb explore her dom kink with him, despite he is not that submissive himself. Halfway through this exploration Deb learns that she wants something different and finds in MC the man she really wanted - the one that is crazy enough that can sacrifice himself to make her happy and understanding enough to be with her during thick and thin of sex life.

I also wonder what MrSilverLust thinks

 

[vnaff]

I think the MC was really the first man to lead Deb successfully in sex.

Dom women enjoy vanilla sex with proper partners, there is no need to "lead" them In case of Deb and MC - you should not underappreciate the novelty effect. She calls MC the second time only because he is a trusted partner that can support her in distress. Just consider the effort of going and finding a new date in the middle of divorce...

 

[vnaff]

In the bedroom if you go the sub route, from my point of view (so far) she's very nasty and mean. It seems to be an outlet for her frustrations. I'm curious if later on she adds any sweet to the sour and I'm curious as to what my own tolerance levels are with the sour. Sometimes that evaluation has to wait and be measured with the sweet - if any comes later.

This is just a bias. First of all, it is a game and it wants to appeal to desires of the audience to be successful (I am not blaming or ridiculing the author at all. Authors want their work to be appreciated, so do I.). Facesitting/pleasuring are one of the most common fantasies in the malesub community. Denial goes next in the ranks of popularity (especially nowadays when one can implement it without meeting the domme personally). IRL, D/s relationships rarely start that intimate - it takes time and effort to know partner and to understand how oral pleasures work on her, if at all. IRL Deb would rather play with herself only letting MC to lick her fingers/toy or kiss her private parts when told.

The game omits this discussion phase in case of Deb for some reason [it is very detailed in Jen's case, btw] (though I would highly appreciate if that would have been added), but people talk first. Conscious femdom, loosely speaking, is about deliberate sexualising of your psychological disturbances in a controlled environment. Therefore, there is no 'sweet' or 'sour' as you put it. The dynamics depend only on the nature of these disturbances. It could be driven, for example, by desire 'to be a good boy'. In that case it could appear 'sweet'. However, it could also be driven by the desire of being punished for some misdoings of the past. It obviously would be 'sour' in that case. It could end up with an absolution, if this is the desire, or not. Still, conscious is the keyword. The dynamics should not make these disturbances worse.
To illustrate what is meant by this: imagine a woman that was deeply hurt in her prior relations and she thus deeply hates all men. If she is searching for revenge by hurting arbitrary men - this is wrong, because it does not solve her problem but rather exacerbates it. However, if she works through her hate and channels it elsewhere, she still could be excited by the possibility to punish men. She knows about her problem, she can control it, she gets sexual arousal from her healed past negative emotions - she is a natural conscious dom. In this particular example, D/s dynamics with her might not be 'sweet' at the first glance - she is not obliged to 'love' her session partner 'unconditionally' - she just should not literally hate him. In fact, her partner might look for an executrix. There is nothing wrong this scenario, as long as it is safe, sane and consensual.

Let's go back to Deb and MC. We are hinted why MC wants to submit. It is less clear about Deb. Their first sexual encounter has too many layers unfortunately (or fortunately... no one can complain that the story is plain, kudos to the author). Deb wants to throw it in Carl's face that she gets pleasured by another man, so it seems somewhat natural that she goes quite far on the first date. She gets carried away, and that does not look good. Yet, it is Carl who is hurt in here, not the MC (at least he does not complain). Starting from their second encounter, there is a much more clear narrative. First she wants to check if MC is a wannabe sub. Next she proceeds by gradually establishing her authority. It is still not clear why, but it actually aligns with MCs desires. Hence, there were (almost) no breaching of the D/s dynamics they have apparently agreed upon. Hence, there is no problem with the Deb's character

 

[Jack Townsend]

Dom women enjoy vanilla sex with proper partners, there is no need to "lead" them In case of Deb and MC - you should not underappreciate the novelty effect. She calls MC the second time only because he is a trusted partner that can support her in distress. Just consider the effort of going and finding a new date in the middle of divorce...

When I use the term "lead" I mean that it's the MC doing most (if not all) the work from start to finish. Part of what characterizes the Manly trait is the ability to lead and be dominant, both in and out of the bedroom. To initiate your first sexual encounter with Deb as a Manly type, you need the "Bull" skill. Having the Bull skill means you have the ability to, and I quote the in-game description, "fuck her in front of her other half and show them who's the better man." To initiate your second sexual encounter with Deb as a Manly type, you need the "Power/Strength" skill. Having the Power/Strength skill is, and I quote the in-game description again, "required to attract women that are into powerful and/or strong men." Notice how both of these skills imply leadership on the part of the MC.

 

[Jack Townsend]

Adding to the comments I made above; I think the fact the Power/Strength skill worked on Deb shows that her sexual tastes may be changing. Whereas before she was exclusively interested only in submissive men, a Manly MC can awaken a new appetite for a dominating man. It can be an interesting thing to explore in later chapters. It would also be a fun challenge for the MC: dominating the dominator.

 

[robrize2169]

that is what i thought about Deb too. since the MC is not interested in sharing her with other guys, but probably he would with other girls, Deb may be warming up to the idea of dating the MC as an equal. guess we will see that. i played the Bull route in dealings with Deb and Carl so that is what makes me think the mc has a shot at a relationship with her that would be different than with Carl.

 

[Jack Townsend]

that is what i thought about Deb too. since the MC is not interested in sharing her with other guys, but probably he would with other girls, Deb may be warming up to the idea of dating the MC as an equal. guess we will see that. i played the Bull route in dealings with Deb and Carl so that is what makes me think the mc has a shot at a relationship with her that would be different than with Carl.

I agree completely. Imagine having a threesome with Deb and Bri.

 

[PrinceRV]

Thus, I could see a transformative path for romance with Deb. If MC has really a crush on her, he goes to great lengths to let Deb explore her dom kink with him, despite he is not that submissive himself. Halfway through this exploration Deb learns that she wants something different and finds in MC the man she really wanted - the one that is crazy enough that can sacrifice himself to make her happy and understanding enough to be with her during thick and thin of sex life.

Relationships are usually about compromises. Sometimes it's just hard to see in Dom/Sub relationships, that Dom is not just a leading role, but also a caring lover, who can put Sub's desires or preferencies first. Deb is a great character, her path is interesting and fun. The only question I have is about Dom!MC's actions, or to be more accurate the lack of these. He can have a crush on Deb at first, but he does nothing about it, and his feelings just vanish? It just looks like he is too shy or careful, so he doesn't make a move. It'd be easier to understand, if Deb could not be his type or she rejected him.

 

[vnaff]

Sometimes it's just hard to see in Dom/Sub relationships, that Dom is not just a leading role, but also a caring lover, who can put Sub's desires or preferencies first.

I accept the premise, but I do not think the conclusion makes sense. It is great when two people in relationships love and care about each other and long-term D/s relationships can and, I'd even say, should have this to be sustainable. Yet, I find it contradictory that Dom puts sub's desires first. D/s implies power exchange. If sub desires come first, then there is no power exchange, hence no domination. It does not prevent Dom from being attentive to her sub.
For example, some Doms like to take bathroom privileges from their subs, as in sub has to ask permission to use the toilet. Dom can say no, despite it can be very much the desire of the sub to take a leak right now. At the same time, with power comes responsibility, hence Dom has to take into account that sub has to empty the bladder, and long waiting period could affect the kidney function.
You also mention sub's preferences. I believe it is implied, because in a consensual relationships sub gives up power only in certain areas of choice. Consensual non-consent gives it to another level, but even there people somehow manage to keep their relationship running.

 

[vnaff]

The only question I have is about Dom!MC's actions, or to be more accurate the lack of these. He can have a crush on Deb at first, but he does nothing about it, and his feelings just vanish? It just looks like he is too shy or careful, so he doesn't make a move. It'd be easier to understand, if Deb could not be his type or she rejected him.

I can see your point and also subscribe to this. My naive guess would be that MC is just considerate and polite. He does not want to bother/press on Deb when she is not fully stable. Quite frankly, if you bug stressed people, you can get quite a handful that will not only put an end to romantic interest but even damage the friendship. I recall that Deb was quite aggressive in her chats with MC.
Since Deb is back to work in the end of chapter 5, we might see some development of dom MC advances in chapter 6.

 

[vnaff]

Adding to the comments I made above; I think the fact the Power/Strength skill worked on Deb shows that her sexual tastes may be changing. Whereas before she was exclusively interested only in submissive men, a Manly MC can awaken a new appetite for a dominating man. It can be an interesting thing to explore in later chapters. It would also be a fun challenge for the MC: dominating the dominator.

Fair point. It still does not end up for current Deb, but this can be extended. However, dom MC cannot choose Deb as love interest anymore in the end of Chapter 5.

 

[MrInsect]

needs more bri content