VN Ren'Py Office Perks [v0.0.7p] [Amomynous Games]

[Hungover00]

Okay. I wouldn't even bother trying this if it's anything like what that guy said. I hate lesbians or bi almost as much as NTR and if a bitch is fucking others behind the MC's back, I ALWAYS think it's Lez-NTR. So that's it. And if that shit is still being rubbed in my face, then BIG NO THANKS

You come off as a bigot. Not sure if you are understanding and accepting of coming off that way, but if you weren't, just letting you know.

 

[goulet1995]

That's a good question. The MC isn't one to tell others who they can or can't have feelings for, and it's difficult to say much more without spoiling the endings. I'll say that there are some LI's that are into each other, and some that are not. But all are into MC, if you want them to be.

thanks for the reply but it sounds like this wont be for me im not into anysort of les/bi stuff evn when its in threesomes them having their own thing going on sounds dangerously close to ntr for me

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

Okay. I wouldn't even bother trying this if it's anything like what that guy said. I hate lesbians or bi almost as much as NTR and if a bitch is fucking others behind the MC's back, I ALWAYS think it's Lez-NTR. So that's it. And if that shit is still being rubbed in my face, then BIG NO THANKS

again I don't care if someone is a lesbian or whatever

if were not in a relationship be happy with whoever makes you happy

but if you are with me I think of it as cheating / Ntr


especially if you were with someone before we got together and you didn't even tell me

 

[Hungover00]

thanks for the reply but it sounds like this wont be for me im not into anysort of les/bi stuff evn when its in threesomes them having their own thing going on sounds dangerously close to ntr for me

Sounds like the Dev is thinking of some revisions, so you likely don't have to throw the whole game away. Also, haven't seen those signs on other routes.

But it's fair to set boundaries in relationships you want, and it would be good if the game let you do that.

 

[Hungover00]

again I don't care if someone is a lesbian or whatever

if were not in a relationship be happy with whoever makes you happy

but if you are with me I think of it as cheating / Ntr


especially if you were with someone before we got together and you didn't even tell me

Taking this thought experiment further, would you want the option to tell other LIs about each other? For example if you started the Jenny, Eva, and Maria paths, what would you want the MC to say to the others, and when?

 

[Sin_Mechero]

I support the idea of asking Jenny for a monogamous relationship

although I think Jenny was wrong for getting involved with the MC without telling him that she was in a relationship

I don't care if the relationship is serious or not it is still dishonest and wrong



and then Jenny acts like her lying and keeping secret is not wrong and no big deal

I wish we had the option to call her out on it

That's what happened to me, I did the monogamous game with Jenni only to find out that she's fucking Grace. No thanks. If I do something I expect the other person to do the same.
I would have preferred if she had warned me earlier so I wouldn't have started with her.

 

[Amomynous Games]

I kind of disagree with you. Up until the monogamy talk (boyfriend/girlfriend, etc.) people don't have any duty to report who else they are dating. But, the closer you go to that talk, the more naturally hurtful that reveal will likely become. So if someone indicates that they are interested in exclusive dating, and the other party doesn't speak up at that point, that's when it starts to get to dicier territory. Personally, I think as long as they make it clear they aren't looking for an exclusive thing right then, that's all they need to disclose, with the * that it may blow up in their faces if dates cross paths.

You make some really good points, and I can see a way to 'soften the blow', so to speak. There are a lot of hints given at the bar with Jenny/Jackson/Grace on Friday night that Jenny and Grace have something going on, but I could be more overt with it. The monagomy/exclusivity ultimatums will definitely come later in the game. None of these characters are exclusive with each other at this early point in their relationships. Jenny and Grace are not in a relationship, they are friends with benefits, so there is no cheating happening with anyone. Without spoiling anything, there are three different endings planned if you're on the Jenny or Grace path.

Some of the LI's are fine with it, others are going to want monogamy. But it's still very early in all of the relationships, so again, no one is exclusive yet. Jenny leaving on Saturday morning is likely going to get an update in the future because, continuity wise, you're right. All she has going on is getting a mani/pedi, so she shouldn't be rushing out. I'm taking all this feedback into consideration, and I appreciate the ideas.

 

[Hungover00]

That's what happened to me, I did the monogamous game with Jenni only to find out that she's fucking Grace. No thanks. If I do something I expect the other person to do the same.
I would have preferred if she had warned me earlier so I wouldn't have started with her.

You make some really good points, and I can see a way to 'soften the blow', so to speak. There are a lot of hints given at the bar with Jenny/Jackson/Grace on Friday night that Jenny and Grace have something going on, but I could be more overt with it. The monagomy/exclusivity ultimatums will definitely come later in the game. None of these characters are exclusive with each other at this early point in their relationships. Jenny and Grace are not in a relationship, they are friends with benefits, so there is no cheating happening with anyone. Without spoiling anything, there are three different endings planned if you're on the Jenny or Grace path.

Some of the LI's are fine with it, others are going to want monogamy. But it's still very early in all of the relationships, so again, no one is exclusive yet. Jenny leaving on Saturday morning is likely going to get an update in the future because, continuity wise, you're right. All she has going on is getting a mani/pedi, so she shouldn't be rushing out. I'm taking all this feedback into consideration, and I appreciate the ideas.

I think this game should probably have multiple on and off routes for the LIs, if it is going for more of a grounded slice of life style. Having the options to nope out of Jenny once more is revealed, and try again at Eva (if the player wanted the mono route with Jenny) if you had passed earlier. And just to reinforce, this is the first week the MC is working and properly in town, meeting people. That's extremely fast to ask someone to give you their entire history. Especially since it's not a full week, but rather a few encounters spread across the week.

Thinking of it from the game dev side, hard separating LIs will, at some point, probably require content for each LI for each day. Which sounds like a lot of work. But worth it, if that's the game the dev wants to make.

 

[Hungover00]

You make some really good points, and I can see a way to 'soften the blow', so to speak. There are a lot of hints given at the bar with Jenny/Jackson/Grace on Friday night that Jenny and Grace have something going on, but I could be more overt with it. The monagomy/exclusivity ultimatums will definitely come later in the game. None of these characters are exclusive with each other at this early point in their relationships. Jenny and Grace are not in a relationship, they are friends with benefits, so there is no cheating happening with anyone. Without spoiling anything, there are three different endings planned if you're on the Jenny or Grace path.

Some of the LI's are fine with it, others are going to want monogamy. But it's still very early in all of the relationships, so again, no one is exclusive yet. Jenny leaving on Saturday morning is likely going to get an update in the future because, continuity wise, you're right. All she has going on is getting a mani/pedi, so she shouldn't be rushing out. I'm taking all this feedback into consideration, and I appreciate the ideas.

I did get the sense there was something going on with Jenny and Grace from the night out, can't recall if there was a choice branch there, but you definitely sprinkled hints there that the audience could spot.

And just wanted to say, it's great that you're listening, responding, and considering implementing feedback. It bodes well for the quality of the game.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

You make some really good points, and I can see a way to 'soften the blow', so to speak. There are a lot of hints given at the bar with Jenny/Jackson/Grace on Friday night that Jenny and Grace have something going on, but I could be more overt with it. The monagomy/exclusivity ultimatums will definitely come later in the game. None of these characters are exclusive with each other at this early point in their relationships. Jenny and Grace are not in a relationship, they are friends with benefits, so there is no cheating happening with anyone. Without spoiling anything, there are three different endings planned if you're on the Jenny or Grace path.

Some of the LI's are fine with it, others are going to want monogamy. But it's still very early in all of the relationships, so again, no one is exclusive yet. Jenny leaving on Saturday morning is likely going to get an update in the future because, continuity wise, you're right. All she has going on is getting a mani/pedi, so she shouldn't be rushing out. I'm taking all this feedback into consideration, and I appreciate the ideas.

I get what you're saying brother but some people are different



for me and some people

if we're with a girl we don't mess around with anyone else even if the relationship is not serious

and we understand not everybody feels that way but if a girl is with someone else she should let us know before

it's a rare thing but some men and women don't like the idea of someone they're dating fooling around with someone else

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

I think this game should probably have multiple on and off routes for the LIs, if it is going for more of a grounded slice of life style. Having the options to nope out of Jenny once more is revealed, and try again at Eva (if the player wanted the mono route with Jenny) if you had passed earlier. And just to reinforce, this is the first week the MC is working and properly in town, meeting people. That's extremely fast to ask someone to give you their entire history. Especially since it's not a full week, but rather a few encounters spread across the week.

Thinking of it from the game dev side, hard separating LIs will, at some point, probably require content for each LI for each day. Which sounds like a lot of work. But worth it, if that's the game the dev wants to make.

we do not want her entire history we just want her to be up front that she's seeing someone

so we could be like okay no thank you

but hey if things don't work out with the other person and you're not seeing anybody give us a call

and we wish her all the best

 

[Hungover00]

if we're with a girl we don't mess around with anyone else even if the relationship is not serious

and we understand not everybody feels that way but if a girl is with someone else she should let us know before

it's a rare thing but some men and women don't like the idea of someone they're dating fooling around with someone else

I think the issue is coming from the conflict between two things, it being a rare thing that people in non serious relationships want monogamy, and that you expect them to know and reveal that information right away. That ends up being more of a you problem, though perhaps the dev can put in an early option for you so the MC says they only date sequentially, and only want to date people who do that as well.

I believe the norm in dating circles is to ignore the idea of your dates going on other dates until you know if things will likely become more serious, and then starting to have deeper conversations about the issue. It would be exhausting and off-putting to jump through those hoops before you know if there's a spark or other layers of compatibility.

But, I do fully support there being the option to make that clear in the game, if the Dev has the time, energy, and inclination for it.

 

[Sin_Mechero]

I think the issue is coming from the conflict between two things, it being a rare thing that people in non serious relationships want monogamy, and that you expect them to know and reveal that information right away. That ends up being more of a you problem, though perhaps the dev can put in an early option for you so the MC says they only date sequentially, and only want to date people who do that as well.

I believe the norm in dating circles is to ignore the idea of your dates going on other dates until you know if things will likely become more serious, and then starting to have deeper conversations about the issue. It would be exhausting and off-putting to jump through those hoops before you know if there's a spark or other layers of compatibility.

But, I do fully support there being the option to make that clear in the game, if the Dev has the time, energy, and inclination for it.

I understand that if you like non-serious relationships, it's not a problem at all, but not everyone likes that kind of relationship. If I'm meeting someone I might be interested in, I don't fuck anyone behind her back.
For me it's not a problem that they do things with each other. It's the lack of information. When they go out that night the choices you have are at the beginning of the night, before you know anything. (During the night you might get to intuit that they are more than friends, and that they know each other more than well) And you no longer have the option to cancel the blowjob with Jenny.
An example of how to do it is Bare Witness, first you see what's there and then you decide. That way you avoid unpleasant surprises

 

[Vasy]

I don't necessarily have a huge issue with the way Jenny and Grace's situation is revealed — although it would've been nice for one of them to mention it earlier — but too few VNs give the player the opportunity to back out of a path after similar reveals.

I think the simple option to say "that's great for you two, but I'm not really into that" would go a long way.

 

[Hungover00]

we do not want her entire history we just want her to be up front that she's seeing someone

so we could be like okay no thank you

but hey if things don't work out with the other person and you're not seeing anybody give us a call

and we wish her all the best

I think part of this ends up in the nuances of 'seeing someone.'

I'd probably break most dating into 4 stages:
Stage 1: Early/non-romantic.
Stage 2: Mid./knowing each other better.
Stage 3: Late/growing closer to each other.
Stage 4: Committed relationship (open, exclusive, or otherwise)

Most 1-3rd dates probably fall into stage 1, and it could be argued so do FwBs. Stage 2 would probably be where folk start to talk about more of their history and present, including dating and whatnot, but still with no commitment. This is where I would expect disclosures of this kind, what they expect/looking for from a relationship, etc., happen. This could last months, if dates were occasional. Stage 3 would be really delving in, talking about life goals, kids, marriage, what the future might hold, while also continuing to test compatibility and getting to know each other. Finding out about any surprises now would be pretty hurtful unless something was made clear in an earlier stage. It would likely blow up the burgeoning relationship for most people, unless things were above board. Stage 4 is making it official. If the couple hasn't defined themselves as monogamous, open, sharing, poly, etc., they were doing it wrong. This is the back end where it really isn't dating anymore, but being in a relationship.

One thing for the dev I hadn't really thought of because of the genre (AVN), but if this is a more realistic slice of life project, then addressing sexual safety is definitely part of that first stage of things, especially if people aren't considered/expected to be monogamous. I think most AVNs avoid it for a lot of small reasons, but it is a real consideration on the more serious side of things. That said, the vibe I got off this project was more on the fun side of realism, and prophylactics and safe sex talk can probably be handwaved in those circumstances. But I do recall it being satisfying in another AVN (can't recall which one atm) having a LI talk about using the toilet after sex to avoid UTIs. Sometimes the extra realism can be rewarding, sometimes it can get in the way of the fun.

 

[Hungover00]

I understand that if you like non-serious relationships, it's not a problem at all, but not everyone likes that kind of relationship. If I'm meeting someone I might be interested in, I don't fuck anyone behind her back.
For me it's not a problem that they do things with each other. It's the lack of information. When they go out that night the choices you have are at the beginning of the night, before you know anything. (During the night you might get to intuit that they are more than friends, and that they know each other more than well) And you no longer have the option to cancel the blowjob with Jenny.
An example of how to do it is Bare Witness, first you see what's there and then you decide. That way you avoid unpleasant surprises

Bare Witness is one of the pinnacles to informed consent and player autonomy in relationships. I'm fully on board with what you're saying and agree, more information earlier, and more choices later, would be good for this game and games in general. As a rule you should be able to nope out of sex right before the sex starts, so I agree with you there. In reality you can nope out after it has started, but that's going to be harder to code (though I believe 'A Shot in the Dark' has a safe-word system for BDSM scenes, which should be stolen and implemented by every other dev, in my opinion).

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

I think part of this ends up in the nuances of 'seeing someone.'

I'd probably break most dating into 4 stages:
Stage 1: Early/non-romantic.
Stage 2: Mid./knowing each other better.
Stage 3: Late/growing closer to each other.
Stage 4: Committed relationship (open, exclusive, or otherwise)

Most 1-3rd dates probably fall into stage 1, and it could be argued so do FwBs. Stage 2 would probably be where folk start to talk about more of their history and present, including dating and whatnot, but still with no commitment. This is where I would expect disclosures of this kind, what they expect/looking for from a relationship, etc., happen. This could last months, if dates were occasional. Stage 3 would be really delving in, talking about life goals, kids, marriage, what the future might hold, while also continuing to test compatibility and getting to know each other. Finding out about any surprises now would be pretty hurtful unless something was made clear in an earlier stage. It would likely blow up the burgeoning relationship for most people, unless things were above board. Stage for is making it official. If the couple hasn't defined themselves as monogamous, open, sharing, poly, etc., they were doing it wrong. This is the back end where it really isn't dating anymore, but being in a relationship.

One thing for the dev I hadn't really thought of because of the genre (AVN), but if this is a more realistic slice of life project, then addressing sexual safety is definitely part of that first stage of things, especially if people aren't considered/expected to be monogamous. I think most AVNs avoid it for a lot of small reasons, but it is a real consideration on the more serious side of things. That said, the vibe I got off this project was more on the fun side of realism, and prophylactics and safe sex talk can probably be handwaved in those circumstances. But I do recall it being satisfying in another AVN (can't recall which one atm) having a LI talk about using the toilet after sex to avoid UTIs. Sometimes the extra realism can be rewarding, sometimes it can get in the way of the fun.

and there is nothing wrong with that if it works for you

but my brother what I'm saying is not everybody is like that

some people don't like dating multiple people at once

and I don't like getting messages from someone that they were just with someone else

 

[Hungover00]

and there is nothing wrong with that if it works for you

but my brother what I'm saying is not everybody is like that

some people don't like dating multiple people at once

and I don't like getting messages from someone that they were just with someone else

I think we're on the same side of the issue, just coming at it from different directions. I agree with you that the norm is not for everyone. It sounds like you would prefer to jump straight to my stage 2. And honestly, I don't think it's usually about liking to date multiple people at once, it's more about logistics and realistic expectations of virtual strangers. I think the majority of people would like if everyone they dated wasn't dating someone else, but also accepts that there is often a tipping point of emotional investment and a level of intimacy being reached before that can be reasonably expected.

But that's more of a tangent, I think we both agree that more options are needed to not be pushed into a complicated relationship, more clear information earlier would be good, and even being able to state your boundaries earlier could help the game, especially for following monogamous paths. Also, I didn't like how the messages scene went either, though I understand to a lesser degree than yourself. But the dev seems to realise intent didn't match outcome, so is looking to fix that.

I think we agree on more than we disagree about.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

I think we're on the same side of the issue, just coming at it from different directions. I agree with you that the norm is not for everyone. It sounds like you would prefer to jump straight to my stage 2. And honestly, I don't think it's usually about liking to date multiple people at once, it's more about logistics and realistic expectations of virtual strangers. I think the majority of people would like if everyone they dated wasn't dating someone else, but also accepts that there is often a tipping point of emotional investment and a level of intimacy being reached before that can be reasonably expected.

But that's more of a tangent, I think we both agree that more options are needed to not be pushed into a complicated relationship, more clear information earlier would be good, and even being able to state your boundaries earlier could help the game, especially for following monogamous paths. Also, I didn't like how the messages scene went either, though I understand to a lesser degree than yourself. But the dev seems to realise intent didn't match outcome, so is looking to fix that.

I think we agree on more than we disagree about.

exactly brother and I was worried because of my reading disability I couldn't explain properly

 

[Hungover00]

exactly brother and I was worried because of my reading disability I couldn't explain properly

Nah, I think it was me just going off topic too much and confusing things by trying to discuss the game on shifting topics (particular scene, personal preferences, real world sociology, game development decisions, etc.) that muddied things. You're all good, I wasn't ever disagreeing with you because I thought you were wrong or your opinions were invalid, I was enjoying the discussion and trying to approach it from a bunch of different directions and weighing different values. Sorry that I caused you stress.