dontcarewhateverno

Engaged Member
Jan 25, 2021
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I guess you’re being hyperbolic there, but if that’s not the case please consider: this doesn’t happen in any non IanxLena route, nor in any route where Ian goes (pursuing Cindy or not) to Wade’s party, nor in any where he goes to the fair but remains “faithful”, nor it has an impact if Lena is the one that has been “faithful” all along (as then her reaction I think undeniably makes complete sense). So...hardly 50% of the playthroughs, in my opinion, much much less.
Well, I could've phrased that better, but what I'm trying to stress is that at least half (and I think a lot more) users are very likely to run through this scenario. The vast majority of us play several+ play-throughs and though I understand a few users purposefully avoid Lena/Ian, the game is literally built around them, strongly pushing the relationship. Their reactions in common routes like this need to be believable and the Ian/Holly trip - one of two possible routes in Chapter 7 - all but railroads you into being kissed by Holly. There's literally only one selection that prevents her from throwing herself on Ian and that selection is a pretty insensitive shutdown approach for a friend expressing insecurities, considering you've had to make caring choices to even go on the trip. Most won't select it. But even just an "I like you", the most neutral response, and Holly's latched to your face, locking you into the scenario in question whether you sleep with her or not. The likelihood that Ian is with Lena and that she's got a dicking or licking from at least one of her many sex options is pretty great, I'd say. I think you're diminishing people's concerns here on the likelihood of running into this. Not sure why.

  1. Personally I’m fine with Lena clearly having a double standard regarding her own “indiscretions”. It would also have been fine if she at least acknowledged she’s been doing the same, yeah (could perfectly live with a small change in that regard), but I think that kind of Lena has shown before that she can be quite selfish and hypocritical, so… no that terribly out of character imho
I think this is what set us apart regarding the issue. I wouldn’t characterize as mere missteps that Lena, while supposedly beginning a relationship with Ian, goes behind his back an makes Mike cheat on his GF, and/or fucks a co-worker that’s been in not one but to fights with him, and sucks the cock of a friend of him in front of his girlfriend no less. Those are not missteps, it’s pretty shitty human behaviour, at least in my book. And I’m not that surprised that someone that has done all that doesn’t stop to contemplate her own faults, especially when riled up and feeling (in a very entitled and selfish way) betrayed.

Just my opinion though, and I understand how other people can feel Lena should address the issue at least internally, even if just to think “I don’t care I cheated on you, you don’t get to cheat on me with Holly".
Save for a few on here whose main concern in the Ian/Lena/Holly arc was something akin to "Lena's a hypocrite" or "Ian's a weak cuck... WTF?!?"... I think that's a huge mischaracterization of what most who voiced concern last weekend were put-off about. For the vast majority - and there were quite a few - it was something missing in the writing to make it all plausible, which Eva's had a consistently good track-record on in the past for the main arcs. Whether it's adding pushback from Ian in the Robert situation (or internal justification for his reluctance) or it's some mental gymnastics we could read in Lena's thoughts to justify her actions if she's slept around: something was missing and bullshit detectors went off.

Writing isn't about showing everything. But it is about illuminating key parts in a story that justify actions and being true to its own internal logic and writing style. Miss those and people here for the writing will sense it, which greatly diminishes our investment in the story. Some of those key parts were missed here, and while it might be a take-it-or-leave-it for you, it kills the enjoyment for a lot of us. We've all got different make-it or break-its that invest us in a game. I've quit literally all but a handful of VNs within the first few minutes due to uneven writing. As much as I'm there for a kink + good artwork, I need that element too and Eva's usually been good there. Just saying it'll kill this one for me if the paths get so unwieldy that her writing continues to suffer like this on the main paths - (though more from lack of time than lack of talent)

It's like how some of us checked out of GOT mid-season-six or seven. While others had their WTF moment in Season 8 when the unearned plot-twists finally caught up to them.

Hopefully the text addition Eva mentioned is the one that'll fix this. It's the reason we wanted to share our opinions in the first place.


Oh. One more note. "Perfect is the enemy of progress" - or something like that. Eva knows there was some mess in this chapter and makes reference to her struggle within the dialogue throughout it. Another reason I was hoping she'd clean it up a bit before the Ch 8 final.
 
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TamaMountain

Active Member
Oct 5, 2018
586
833
So for Ian to not drop Holly like an absolute dick at the beginning of Chapter 8, he needs to completely ignore Lena from the start?
No. You can fk Lena all you want, just don't tell Jeremy "I'm falling for her" in ch 7. If you say that, then yes Ian will end up single in ch 8 since he drops both Holly and Lena, or rather they dumped him.

But if you tell Jeremy "no strings attached" in ch 7, then Ian will stay with Holly after relaying the news that he fked her to Lena. That's what I found out anyways :giggle:.

Of course you can always kiss Holly which leaves things in the middle ground imo. Hard to tell where Eva Kiss is going with this, because if Ian does not fk Holly, you'll see Ivy suggesting to Lena to share Ian with Holly, so perhaps Holly is not completely locked out for Ian yet :unsure:?
 

dontcarewhateverno

Engaged Member
Jan 25, 2021
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Cuck is someone who knows their partner is cheating and gets off on it.

Some actively encourage it.

Lena has never been a cuckquean. While she was being cheated on she had no knowledge of it at the time nor got off to it.
Cucks are like Smurfs. There's really a huge variety of them. Daddy figures, nerds, angry ones, push-overs and some who like pies in the face. The only thing in common is blue balls and a shared woman.
 
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Cabot

Member
Jun 20, 2017
290
660
I think you're diminishing people's concerns here on the likelihood of running into this. Not sure why.
I swear you I wasn’t trying to diminish the concerns of anyone, only the alleged number of playthroughs in which this situation happens. And that is NOT 50% of them. Just that.

Save for a few on here whose main concern in the Ian/Lena/Holly arc was something akin to "Lena's a hypocrite" or "Ian's a weak cuck... WTF?!?"... I think that's a huge mischaracterization of what most who voiced concern last weekend were put-off about.
Again, I wasn’t trying to mischaracterize anyone concerns (and btw, you’re the one that said “Lena’s a sociopath”), only expressing my disagreement about precisely characterizing some of Lena’s possible wrongdoings as mere missteps, when IMHO are more than that; and how that can explain she not stopping to contemplate her own mistakes, being (in those routes) a person that previously -guided by the player- has shown quite a selfish and entitled behaviour.

Whether it's adding pushback from Ian in the Robert situation (or internal justification for his reluctance) or it's some mental gymnastics we could read in Lena's thoughts to justify her actions if she's slept around: something was missing and bullshit detectors went off.
And if you’ve read some of my other messages about this issue you should know by now that, while I don’t agree on the whole scene being such an example of bad writing you claim it is, I’m in favor of adding the chance for Ian to confront Lena about Robert and wouldn’t mind some tweaks regarding her inner monologue in a few cases. So I don’t know what we're arguing about anymore, really, especially considering -as I said in yet another message- the argument has been rendered moot due to Eva taking another pass at it. We’ll see what she decides...

Oh. One more note. "Perfect is the enemy of progress" - or something like that. Eva knows there was some mess in this chapter and makes reference to her struggle within the dialogue throughout it. Another reason I was hoping she'd clean it up a bit before the Ch 8 final.
I think you might be reading too much into that, I'd kindly invite you to maybe take a mental step back and realize not everything in this update turns around the scene that worries you. Eva at Discord has talked about the scene where she struggled, took a week to write, and caused a bit of writer's block and (spoiler alert) it’s not this one but the sexting involving Stalkfap/Ian/Robert/Mike: it juggles so many variables (from the previous stalkfap video and DMs with subscribers, the other partner involved in the sexting, Lena’s previous experiences with them, agreeing or not to make the custom video…) that it was hell to write for her.
 

dontcarewhateverno

Engaged Member
Jan 25, 2021
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I swear you I wasn’t trying to diminish the concerns of anyone, only the alleged number of playthroughs in which this situation happens. And that is NOT 50% of them. Just that.


Again, I wasn’t trying to mischaracterize anyone concerns (and btw, you’re the one that said “Lena’s a sociopath”), only expressing my disagreement about precisely characterizing some of Lena’s possible wrongdoings as mere missteps, when IMHO are more than that; and how that can explain she not stopping to contemplate her own mistakes, being (in those routes) a person that previously -guided by the player- has shown quite a selfish and entitled behaviour.


And if you’ve read some of my other messages about this issue you should know by now that, while I don’t agree on the whole scene being such an example of bad writing you claim it is, I’m in favor of adding the chance for Ian to confront Lena about Robert and wouldn’t mind some tweaks regarding her inner monologue in a few cases. So I don’t know what we're arguing about anymore, really, especially considering -as I said in yet another message- the argument has been rendered moot due to Eva taking another pass at it. We’ll see what she decides...


I think you might be reading too much into that, I'd kindly invite you to maybe take a mental step back and realize not everything in this update turns around the scene that worries you. Eva at Discord has talked about the scene where she struggled, took a week to write, and caused a bit of writer's block and (spoiler alert) it’s not this one but the sexting involving Stalkfap/Ian/Robert/Mike: it juggles so many variables (from the previous stalkfap video and DMs with subscribers, the other partner involved in the sexting, Lena’s previous experiences with them, agreeing or not to make the custom video…) that it was hell to write for her.
Dude. You took the "Lena's a sociopath" thing way out of context. It was said to illuminate why I didn't buy giving no acknowledgement in her mind of the situation as a plausible reaction. I thought it was clear in the explanation.

You've also seemed pretty diminishing and "politely" patronizing in your responses to others concerns, regardless of not minding a change. I'm done with this. Let's agree to disagree on all of this, cause we're not going to convince each other of just about anything and I still hard-disagree on about all of it. My point was that she's struggled with the chapter in general, regardless of the scene you mention. A lot of us just thought that in those struggles she missed this key issue that hits the bullshit meter hard on writing for us, even if it's NBD for you. On posting, I was honestly just hoping some voices would bring those concerns to Eva since she was swamped with this update and knows it isn't as good as her previous.

Hopefully that's what she's editing. We're all just guessing at this point.
 
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dontcarewhateverno

Engaged Member
Jan 25, 2021
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Sounds like the scene with Lena being mad at Ian WRT Holly, I hope she doesn't change Lena's behavior but just gives Ian more automony in the scene, but it looks like she might try to portray Lena in a more sympathetic or understanding light, because I don't dislike that Lena reacts the way she does, just that Ian can't speak up and defend himself in that situation.

For the added sex scenes, my speculation is that it might be Ian/Emma if he refuses the drug, I think Lena/Jeremy sexting again after he gets off the phone with Louise might be something if it's additional scenes. I can't really think of any other interactions this chapter that could lead to sexual scenarios though.
Adding text for Lena doesn't necessarily mean portraying her in a more sympathetic light though. Could just be mentally acknowledging it, as one would. Then, just as easily, reasoning/excusing her way out of it, as humans also tend to do. Unreliable yet plausible narrator. Can be done effectively in as little as one line in her thoughts, adding believable context without changing tone or character.

The issues regarding the Ian/Lena dialogue has also been discussed on Discord, and Eva herself commented that she'd try to make some improvements. So I think it's safe to say that it's that particular scene she's talking about.
Good to hear. Will be interesting what she does with it.
 
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velsh123

New Member
Aug 10, 2019
11
24
I start a realationship with holly on ian and maybe it is not a good idea too let ivy influnce holly:geek::giggle:she already drinking and talk about her kinks and do you think ian fight vs mike? that could make things even worse
я думаю что хорошая идея если Ян там вообще всем наваляет и баб там раскатает под асфальт, ну кроме балбесов друзей, особенно того бухарика сына мера
 

dundun

Active Member
Jul 6, 2017
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The issues regarding the Ian/Lena dialogue has also been discussed on Discord, and Eva herself commented that she'd try to make some improvements. So I think it's safe to say that it's that particular scene she's talking about.
The problem is not just that one discussion, though. There is also the LenaxHolly scene. If Ian stopped after Holly kissed him and Lena later forgave him Holly will bring Ian up and Lena will simply dismiss it as 'having nothing to do with Ian', after getting mad on Ian for just a kiss.
There is also Ian's missing consequence for their relationship value when he finds out about Robert.
Just want to make sure it won't get overlooked. :geek:
 

TamaMountain

Active Member
Oct 5, 2018
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Tbh I don't mind if Eva doesn't change the dialogue. Changing it means I'll have to go through all the dialogue again to spot the differences.

I have already spent many hours experimenting; doing it again is daunting :LOL:.

I would prefer if Eva decides to alter future chapters instead, like having Lena reflect on her actions and possibly apologise to Ian. That way Eva can change Lena's character in response to the criticisms, without changing ch 8.
 
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