VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[TM | Twisted Games]

I'm not going to delve too deeply here, but just from a psychological perspective, you are taking everything far too much at face value. You are looking at outward signs and assuming that Edwin will be a submissive, but the biggest clue to who he is that we have access to is his inner monologue...and the character you expect to see because of the fact you think he's weak, looks like a chump, doesn't dress well, listens to his mother...once you hear his thoughts, it's patently clear that he is not a submissive. Now, depending on how you play, if you lower his toughness, I don't think he's necessarily a total dominant either (although that is how I prefer to play him.) but the character you seem to be searching for does not exist.

All the outward signs you point to that show him as a submissive, often those things don't point to people being submissive at all. Take the show Billions for a fictional example, where the powerful, well-dressed, well connected District Attorney can't get off unless he is dominated by his wife or mistress. People in real life don't fit into the neat categories that you are postulating here, and it's actually to myself, and I think many others, a sign of the QUALITY of the writing of this VN that it avoids that kind of narrow logic.

If you go around life assuming that you can figure everybody out by how they look and act in public, all I can say is do not take up a career in poker. It will not go well.









Potential Spoiler:

I was expecting his mother to be fucked over & over again and even whored out, but it never happened,

It hasn't happened yet. I live in hope that Edwin will turn her over to the club, but I'm not necessarily expecting it.

 

[SharkVampire]

It's a quite entertaining point of view on the main character of this game, that's for sure
I guess I know what would you say about main male character in Our Red String. If you haven't played this game, give it a try, I'm sure you will love it. Yes, there is NTR in this game.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

It hasn't happened yet. I live in hope that Edwin will turn her over to the club, but I'm not necessarily expecting it.

Doubt it is going to happen. It was already mentioned by the developers Victoria is Edwin's moral compass and she won't have a active sexual role in the story other than those amateur sex videos of her.

 

[Construct]

Okay... Look at this from my point of view: The game has a female domination, prostitution & BDSM tag. I'm very much into RECEIVING femdom, being NTR'ed, cucked, or being able to share women, or get humiliated because I like masochism and submission. So now you know my perspective going into the game.

Fair enough. I don‘t think any of the tags describe that the MC has to be explicitly part of the content that the names of these tags describe, so that might lead to disappointments.

Listens to his mom like a good boy

When I read this I have to think of powerful people listening to a matriarch. That must automatically make them submissive and total chumps because they follow the lead of a woman /s

Doesn't understand clothing power dynamics

If I am fully dressed in a sauna, that must make me a god among the people being there. (Just for absurdity)

He should at least get contact lenses so his physical weakness isn't apparent

I disagree that wearing glasses makes you look weak and I also disagree that is the case with Edwin. Sure it doesn‘t make him look like a bodybuilder, but it also doesn‘t make him look like the nerdiest nerd ever.

Has a desire for [money], [respect] or [helping people], but the one desire he doesn't yearn for IS [power]

Because, and here we are slowly getting to the good part, the Games theme is that it‘s the player choice to make Edwin desire power. You went into this game with the expectation that this game starts at 110% of what you expect from these tags while in reality, the character maybe starts out as you describe, but throughout the game you can make him more corrupt with your choices. I‘m sure at the end of the game you can make Edwin into something closer to your definition of an „alpha male“

I'm sure all the other alpha males in the game

Disregarded because of „alpha male“ stuff

Dresses like a complete fool, requiring an alpha male

See above

Look at Edwin compared to all the other men at the CLUB

all other men at the club are in high positions of power in society. Of course they dress like that. Edwin is a medicine student. Studying is expensive and you make cuts to pay for university and food. Didn‘t know medicine students are required to wear suits to university.

He acts like a literal cuck, but he's not a cuck?!

Because it‘s the player decision to make him act less like that if they desire. It‘s the theme of the game

I was literally enjoying the game, thinking Edwin was gonna get completely humiliated, degraded and femdommed over how pathetic he is, but instead the opposite happens and it doesn't make any sense.

See above

I was expecting his mother to be fucked over & over again and even whored out, but it never happened

Because it already happened. The mother was a pornstar to bring in money to raise her son. Her story is already completed.

He looks just like the guy from the game Cuckold Simulator

Probably the same engine. Home Select has some limitations for males

 

[TM | Twisted Games]

Doubt it is going to happen. It was already mentioned by the developers Victoria is Edwin's moral compass and she won't have a active sexual role in the story other than those amateur sex videos of her.

You're almost certainly right, but my strategy is to keep bringing it up in areas TD might read, to work as a kind of subliminal messaging. I figure I have about a .07% chance of willing either this or Felicia becoming a club pet into existence.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

You're almost certainly right, but my strategy is to keep bringing it up in areas TD might read, to work as a kind of subliminal messaging. I figure I have about a .07% chance of willing either this or Felicia becoming a club pet into existence.

Quick lets strap TD on a chair a la Orange clockwork and make them watch all kinds of subliminal messages!

 

[Mograx]

Anyone else already thinking of plans/ideas as to how to help the 3 carnations as efficiently as possible? Even that first night of competition I was trying to micro manage who wins and who loses (not realizing they all move on lol)

My idea: Since Felicia is the one who doesn't truly NEED the win...

1) Rosalind wins the event. Her problem solved (we ensure kath doesn't try and milk (heh) her for anything else) she can simply pay off her debts and move on with her life, and we ensure (by any means necessary) kath leaves it at that, case closed.

2) We find a way to help Veronica personally: Whether through blackmailing (forget his name) the guy responsible, via a plan as complicated but succinct as a plan you'd find in any heist blockbuster movie, or more simpler, forceful means, like in the MC's early days. Veronica WILL get her dream back, one way or another.

3) For Felicia, we find a way to convince kath to bring her on board for the membership, despite the fact she lost. Maybe we tactfully remind kath that bringing a woman on as a member will create a new perspective to the table, resulting in a long term increase in profits as a result of potential money spending clients who maybe weren't interested in a 'brothel' run entirely by men. Or that her membership allows her a front row opportunity to impart her knowledge and first hand experience to future recruits and employees alike, making them more appealing to clients all the quicker; a net-gain all around.

And if coercion and persuasion doesn't work on Kath to help Felicia get what she wants..

Then maybe we take a page out of Veronica's playbook to get it done. With Veronica's help of course. After all, she already knows how to do that, and she would owe us one after helping her get her dream back, right?

 

[MoarDakka123]

Anyone else already thinking of plans/ideas as to how to help the 3 carnations as efficiently as possible? Even that first night of competition I was trying to micro manage who wins and who loses (not realizing they all move on lol)

My idea: Since Felicia is the one who doesn't truly NEED the win...

1) Rosalind wins the event. Her problem solved (we ensure kath doesn't try and milk (heh) her for anything else) she can simply pay off her debts and move on with her life, and we ensure (by any means necessary) kath leaves it at that, case closed.

2) We find a way to help Veronica personally: Whether through blackmailing (forget his name) the guy responsible, via a plan as complicated but succinct as a plan you'd find in any heist blockbuster movie, or more simpler, forceful means, like in the MC's early days. Veronica WILL get her dream back, one way or another.

3) For Felicia, we find a way to convince kath to bring her on board for the membership, despite the fact she lost. Maybe we tactfully remind kath that bringing a woman on as a member will create a new perspective to the table, resulting in a long term increase in profits as a result of potential money spending clients who maybe weren't interested in a 'brothel' run entirely by men. Or that her membership allows her a front row opportunity to impart her knowledge and first hand experience to future recruits and employees alike, making them more appealing to clients all the quicker; a net-gain all around.

And if coercion and persuasion doesn't work on Kath to help Felicia get what she wants..

Then maybe we take a page out of Veronica's playbook to get it done. With Veronica's help of course. After all, she already knows how to do that, and she would owe us one after helping her get her dream back, right?

As I see it, that's clearly being set up, with you basically having the choice as to whether or not pledge them aid, ie, go down their "routes" in VN terms.

• Rosalind needs to win (or rather, she needs money, but winning is how she's going to get it), and that's her route.
• When MC is considering Veronica's route, he even notes that she doesn't need to win, she might be able to get her business back up as long as she gets Samson off her back, so that's her route.
• Felicia is still a mystery of course, but I somehow doubt she's being honest (or at least transparent) about her goals. Not only that, she seems emotionally intelligent and not particularly cruel, so I really doubt she's some form of successor to Kathleen. I just don't see Felicia coercing women in deep shit into playing these sick games.

 

[TM | Twisted Games]

Anyone else already thinking of plans/ideas as to how to help the 3 carnations as efficiently as possible? Even that first night of competition I was trying to micro manage who wins and who loses (not realizing they all move on lol)

My idea: Since Felicia is the one who doesn't truly NEED the win...

1) Rosalind wins the event. Her problem solved (we ensure kath doesn't try and milk (heh) her for anything else) she can simply pay off her debts and move on with her life, and we ensure (by any means necessary) kath leaves it at that, case closed.

2) We find a way to help Veronica personally: Whether through blackmailing (forget his name) the guy responsible, via a plan as complicated but succinct as a plan you'd find in any heist blockbuster movie, or more simpler, forceful means, like in the MC's early days. Veronica WILL get her dream back, one way or another.

3) For Felicia, we find a way to convince kath to bring her on board for the membership, despite the fact she lost. Maybe we tactfully remind kath that bringing a woman on as a member will create a new perspective to the table, resulting in a long term increase in profits as a result of potential money spending clients who maybe weren't interested in a 'brothel' run entirely by men. Or that her membership allows her a front row opportunity to impart her knowledge and first hand experience to future recruits and employees alike, making them more appealing to clients all the quicker; a net-gain all around.

And if coercion and persuasion doesn't work on Kath to help Felicia get what she wants..

Then maybe we take a page out of Veronica's playbook to get it done. With Veronica's help of course. After all, she already knows how to do that, and she would owe us one after helping her get her dream back, right?

I'm with you on #1, not all that interested in helping Veronica...looking to invert #3

 

[Grimstar]

I'm with you on #1, not all that interested in helping Veronica...looking to invert #3

Wow, someone else who also isn't interested in Veronica!! I thought I was alone. Honestly not a fan of her or her attitude. I hate her whole her entitled and holier than thou persona. Just waiting for the dev to give her some tragic backstory where she was bullied for being fat or some shizz. Felicia is the only I'm genuinely interested in. Though I'll probably help Rosalind win due to her being the only one who seems to be affected if she lost.

 

[MoarDakka123]

You think Veronica has a holier than thou attitude? That's honestly just kinda weird to me, not how I interpret her at all. Girl's got no patience for nonsense and she makes that very clear, I don't think that's at all offensive.

 

[Hisakatana]

Because, and here we are slowly getting to the good part, the Games theme is that it‘s the player choice to make Edwin desire power. You went into this game with the expectation that this game starts at 110% of what you expect from these tags while in reality, the character maybe starts out as you describe, but throughout the game you can make him more corrupt with your choices.

We've had a lot of back and forth in the thread recently and this point hasn't been emphasized enough. Edwin is at a crossroads where he's being tempted to enact on his sadistic tendencies he's suppressed/not realized. It's not as simple as "Edwin is X" or "Edwin is Y", it's much closer to "Edwin has the potential to be X or Y and has been thrust into an extreme situation where he has to decided which direction he's heading towards".

On a practical side, this expands the playerbase the game can appeal to, as this type of subject matter can get pretty tame or extreme and many players aren't interested in the whole spectrum. As for the story, it puts emphasis that Edwin had the potential to embrace his sadistic tendencies and give in to the temptations, or resist them and do what he can to help the women in these terrible situations. Your mileage may vary but that part impressed me quite a bit. I've played too many games where the "good/nice" and "evil/dick" paths make little sense and just come off as a generic good guy MC who has moments where he can be uncharacteristically mean. This game nails the feeling that Edwin can be either and it makes sense no matter what choices you make.

 

[TM | Twisted Games]

Well said, Hisakatana

 

[TM | Twisted Games]

Wow, someone else who also isn't interested in Veronica!! I thought I was alone. Honestly not a fan of her or her attitude. I hate her whole her entitled and holier than thou persona. Just waiting for the dev to give her some tragic backstory where she was bullied for being fat or some shizz. Felicia is the only I'm genuinely interested in. Though I'll probably help Rosalind win due to her being the only one who seems to be affected if she lost.

Well...to be fair...I am interested in Veronica, just more so in her corruption and debasement than saving her. Because I am eeeevillll

 

[ename144]

Quick lets strap TD on a chair a la Orange clockwork and make them watch all kinds of subliminal messages!

Is that likely to speed up the release of Update 2? No? Then let's hold off on that for now. We need to keep our eyes on big picture here.

Anyone else already thinking of plans/ideas as to how to help the 3 carnations as efficiently as possible? Even that first night of competition I was trying to micro manage who wins and who loses (not realizing they all move on lol)

My idea: Since Felicia is the one who doesn't truly NEED the win...

1) Rosalind wins the event. Her problem solved (we ensure kath doesn't try and milk (heh) her for anything else) she can simply pay off her debts and move on with her life, and we ensure (by any means necessary) kath leaves it at that, case closed.

2) We find a way to help Veronica personally: Whether through blackmailing (forget his name) the guy responsible, via a plan as complicated but succinct as a plan you'd find in any heist blockbuster movie, or more simpler, forceful means, like in the MC's early days. Veronica WILL get her dream back, one way or another.

3) For Felicia, we find a way to convince kath to bring her on board for the membership, despite the fact she lost. Maybe we tactfully remind kath that bringing a woman on as a member will create a new perspective to the table, resulting in a long term increase in profits as a result of potential money spending clients who maybe weren't interested in a 'brothel' run entirely by men. Or that her membership allows her a front row opportunity to impart her knowledge and first hand experience to future recruits and employees alike, making them more appealing to clients all the quicker; a net-gain all around.

And if coercion and persuasion doesn't work on Kath to help Felicia get what she wants..

Then maybe we take a page out of Veronica's playbook to get it done. With Veronica's help of course. After all, she already knows how to do that, and she would owe us one after helping her get her dream back, right?

I've spent time considering it, amongst other things. The problem is that the plans are currently stuck at a very high level.

As you say, for Rosalind helping her win seems like the best bet. Unfortunately, she won't take "Yes, but" for an answer so I'm stuck trying to help her on my own. We'll see how that works out.

For Veronica, the ultimate goal isn't necessarily to save her gym (though we're certainly going to try), it's to make sure she lands on her feet in a position to take another stab at her dream as soon as possible. For now, figuring out what Samson did and trying to undo seems like the best start, but we need to keep our eyes open for other options and keep Veronica's spirits up. If it ultimately comes down to letting the gym close to come back stronger later, that's going to take some epic convincing. But don't worry, MC, I believe in you!

For Felicia, there's not much we can do until we learn WHY she wants to join the club. She can get all the depraved sex she wants without being a club member so there has to be something more to it that that, and as MoarDakka123 said, she doesn't seem the type to enjoy forcing other people to play along. So for now Felica's stuck in a holding pattern.

 

[TM | Twisted Games]

All I can say is that it really restores my faith in humanity to see people offered a power fantasy, and behave in such noble ways.

To the degree I am allowed within the VN, I intend to use this opportunity, these connections, and Kathleen's growing trust to radically improve the MC's place in society, within and without the club. As far as the three carnations are concerned, I have been given the task of keeping their morale in a relatively decent place to get them through the event, and I intend to do that. Beyond that I would be willing to tip the event slightly to Rosalind, just based on need...but I don't really care what happens to those three characters once the event is complete. Hopefully Felicia sticks around with the club in a subservient role.

Then I want to find a way to get Mina in hoc so I can get her into the next competition.

 

[Mograx]

I'm with you on #1, not all that interested in helping Veronica...looking to invert #3

Oh I'd play the shit out of that route lol. With enough Kath-trust points it already feels like MC is sorta spiraling down toward that level of depravity required to be an apprentice of hers of sorts. Maybe even taking her down and replacing her in the most sexually involved way possible by the end. Breaking Felicia alongside Kath would be a damn fine treat to watch to be sure.

I'd just do a route to help her the first time around, whatever the hell that it is she truly she wants lol.

Edit: Actually not sure if you're referring to Veronica or Felicia as the one getting dominated but that doesn't really matter because yeah I'd like to see both lol.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Those people (at the club) are putrid and nothing woud give me more pleasure than make them suffer. I intend to make Edwin help Veronica deal with that scumbag Samson and Rosalind with the loan sharks but not sure abot Felicia until i discover what she really wants.

Also keeping Kathleen happy is always a good plan since she is the brains of the operation and having her close means Edwin needs a shorter blade to stab her back later if needed.

 

[SharkVampire]

Now, at least, I see that I'm not the only one who plays the way of corruption, because for some time I had the feeling that all active members who post here only play for good guys.
The funny thing is that my Edwin acts like he has some kind of schizophrenia, lol. He wants to corrupt Hana, overthrow Kate and take her place, but at the same time he wants to help Rosalind and Veronica after the exhibition, even if they don't win (most certainly he will try to help Felicia win)
Also, I have feeling that I'm the only one here who want to help Killian's mother without any obligations on her part, as some dirty perverts already imagined for her I still want to steal Mina from Killian (she is too cute to resist), but if we do it and then we fuck his mother, it will be like 2 daggers in the back, which is really cruel, IMO. And I want to repay him for his kindness toward our character. Also my Edwin not into torturing people like it was with Harper, but he fine with her being a prostitute. So that's why I would call my Edwin, a person with some mental disorders, because of his inconsistent actions.
This seems to be the true path of a chaotic-neutral character

 

[Poser_Voyeur]

Now, at least, I see that I'm not the only one who plays the way of corruption, because for some time I had the feeling that all active members who post here only play for good guys.
The funny thing is that my Edwin acts like he has some kind of schizophrenia, lol. He wants to corrupt Hana, overthrow Kate and take her place, but at the same time he wants to help Rosalind and Veronica after the exhibition, even if they don't win (most certainly he will try to help Felicia win)
Also, I have feeling that I'm the only one here who want to help Killian's mother without any obligations on her part, as some dirty perverts already imagined for her I still want to steal Mina from Killian (she is too cute to resist), but if we do it and then we fuck his mother, it will be like 2 daggers in the back, which is really cruel, IMO. And I want to repay him for his kindness toward our character. Also my Edwin not into torturing people like it was with Harper, but he fine with her being a prostitute. So that's why I would call my Edwin, a person with some mental disorders, because of his inconsistent actions.
This seems to be the true path of a chaotic-neutral character

In my first playthrough I wanted Edwin to fuck Kathleen so he went ahead with Harper scene.
However I am not huge fan of BDSM so I played a second time and this toe released Harper.
So I am hoping that going forward Edwin can tread that fine line.