VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Mark17]

disconight.jpg

Is this... Suppose to be... The fan-art?

 

[Deleted member 3250193]

Thanks to this game, I Googled the phrase "Mark Collins, age 45" and discovered that my life up until that point had been incomplete.

 

[badnboujee]

Thanks to this game, I Googled the phrase "Mark Collins, age 45" and discovered that my life up until that point had been incomplete.

Pale carnations on its face seems to be a game about a guy pursuing relationships with girls who are directly/indirectly related to a brothel and the shenanigans that ensue therein, but in actuality, it's really a ploy from TD to expose players to niche movie references

 

[riverrungames]

Pale carnations on its face seems to be a game about a guy pursuing relationships with girls who are directly/indirectly related to brothel and the shenanigans that ensue therein, but in actuality, it's really a ploy from TD to expose players to niche movie references

You can feel the passion TD1900 has for Italian giallo films, '70s auteur films like All that Jazz, and bad B-movies.

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[Raven Tomoe]

for those that like to be depraved on the girls hope ya'll like

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

You can feel the passion TD1900 has for Italian giallo films, '70s auteur films like All that Jazz, and bad B-movies.

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We also need a handheld grenade launcher.

 

[ename144]

GIL has posted possibly the best artwork yet, with Mina, Hana and all carnations. Absolutely stunning, hats off to you.

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disconight.jpg

Yes, it's a gorgeous shot; hopefully they will indeed use it as a transition screen someday.

I'm not saying GIL felt the need to step up his game after all of Raven Tomoe's fan art, but the timing is amusing.

 

[Raven Tomoe]

 

[Cernunnos.]

It's quite remarkable that this AVN is being supported with only 400 patrons. Being able to update an AVN of this quality consistently is pretty rare on this site. Usually, AVN's this good would take much longer to complete their updates, and even then, it's not always guaranteed that they'll bring a sufficient amount of content for those who have waited. I... really do not know why this AVN doesn't have more patrons. I literally cannot find a reason.

I can only speak for myself but I will not play or support any game where I have to share a LI regardless of how good the story might be. The prostitution tag is an albatross around the game's neck in my opinion and skirts a line which means neither NTR lovers nor folks like me are willing to invest.

 

[dolfe67]

I can only speak for myself but I will not play or support any game where I have to share a LI regardless of how good the story might be. The prostitution tag is an albatross around the game's neck in my opinion and skirts a line which means neither NTR lovers nor folks like me are willing to invest.

It's nice people like different things, or we'll end up with the thousandth game with a young MC returning home to bang his mother and 3 sisters, and why not some side chicks because he's the only attractive and interesting man in the world

Also nice some devs can develop different games even though they have less support

 

[desmosome]

I can only speak for myself but I will not play or support any game where I have to share a LI regardless of how good the story might be. The prostitution tag is an albatross around the game's neck in my opinion and skirts a line which means neither NTR lovers nor folks like me are willing to invest.

Good thing the world doesn't revolve around NTR.

 

[bacienvu88]

I can only speak for myself but I will not play or support any game where I have to share a LI regardless of how good the story might be. The prostitution tag is an albatross around the game's neck in my opinion and skirts a line which means neither NTR lovers nor folks like me are willing to invest.

Out of curiosity: Do you have this stance on mainstream media as well? I.e. do you refuse to watch things like Pretty Woman, Eyes Wide Shut, etc.? If not, what is the difference here?

 

[nognub1]

Out of curiosity: Do you have this stance on mainstream media as well? I.e. do you refuse to watch things like Pretty Woman, Eyes Wide Shut, etc.? If not, what is the difference here?

Pale Carnations is porn, and so revolves around sexual gratification; Eyes Wide Shut, and other non-pornographic fiction does not center on sexual gratifying the viewer/reader. If someone finds a particular fetish in a porn game to be a turn-off, it's perfectly understandable that they would not want to play it. For the same reason a straight man would likely have no interest in playing a gay porn game, but would potentially have no issue in watching a movie that featured a gay couple.

Personally, I don't care about the sharing so long as it's optional.

 

[bacienvu88]

Pale Carnations is porn, and so revolves around sexual gratification; Eyes Wide Shut, and other non-pornographic fiction does not center on sexual gratifying the viewer/reader. If someone finds a particular fetish in a porn game to be a turn-off, it's perfectly understandable that they would not want to play it. For the same reason a straight man would likely have no interest in playing a gay porn game, but would potentially have no issue in watching a movie that featured a gay couple.

Personally, I don't care about the sharing so long as it's optional.

Porn is the deciding factor? Most porn movies have many characters that have sex with multiple partners, often at the same time. I have never seen a porn movie marketed with "No NTR" labels. EDIT: by porn movie here I mean these feature length directed things, not random clips on pornhub

The reason I chose Pretty Woman in particular is that it has pretty clear MC and a clear LI who is a prostitute and thus have sex with people other than MC. Thus not too dissimilar to this game.

 

[nognub1]

Porn is the deciding factor? Most porn movies have many characters that have sex with multiple partners, often at the same time. I have never seen a porn movie marketed with "No NTR" labels. EDIT: by porn movie here I mean these feature length directed things, not random clips on pornhub

The reason I chose Pretty Woman in particular is that it has pretty clear MC and a clear LI who is a prostitute and thus have sex with people other than MC. Thus not too dissimilar to this game.

I'd say it's more about it being a porn game where the the MC is an extension of the player (we make decisions on the MC's behalf), whereas in regular porn you're just watching characters. This can give sharing scenes an unpleasant, cuckold like experience for players (at least for some). I'd also say that in regular porn stories it's more about characters who are promiscuous; not a lot of emphasis is placed on relationships and infidelity, and in cases where there is a lot of emphasis there, it is often categorised as a 'cuckold' porno -- and this is unappealing to many.

I do agree that thematically the LI's sleeping with other men can make sense, as was the case in Pretty Woman, but most people who play this game do so for sexual gratification -- the same can't be said for viewers of Pretty Woman. This does speak to a tension I see within the adult visual novel space: where creators have a hard time balancing a utilitiarian commitment to 'broadly appealing fap material' and an artistic desire to create a good story.

 

[TD1900]

Out of curiosity: Do you have this stance on mainstream media as well? I.e. do you refuse to watch things like Pretty Woman, Eyes Wide Shut, etc.? If not, what is the difference here?

Porn is the deciding factor? Most porn movies have many characters that have sex with multiple partners, often at the same time. I have never seen a porn movie marketed with "No NTR" labels. EDIT: by porn movie here I mean these feature length directed things, not random clips on pornhub

The reason I chose Pretty Woman in particular is that it has pretty clear MC and a clear LI who is a prostitute and thus have sex with people other than MC. Thus not too dissimilar to this game.

This is a question I've grappled with both as someone who doesn't self-insert into visual novels and as a developer of one.

I find the ways some people limit themselves based off an imprecise list of tags sans context instead of engaging with a work on its own merit peculiar, but I do understand that to most people, adult visual novels are simply a commodity. With how over-saturated the market is, readers can afford to be choosy. Personally, I think that's kinda a boring way to engage with fiction. Stories are the best tool there is to wrestle with ideas and experience uncomfortable things safely. Plus, I like the thrill of finding something new that I didn't expect I'd like.

...but at the end of the day, this is porn and not art. There isn't anything wrong with being choosy and it's understandable to want to avoid things that repulse or trigger you when what you're simply looking for is escapism.

 

[bacienvu88]

I'd say it's more about it being a porn game where the the MC is an extension of the player (we make decisions on the MC's behalf), whereas in regular porn you're just watching characters.

This is a question I've grappled with both as someone who doesn't self-insert into visual novels and as a developer of one.

To be fair, most AVN:s play into this to various degrees as well. Everything is seen from MC:s perspective to the point of never showing MC:s face, choices are only for MC, select the name of MC and so on.

...but at the end of the day, this is porn and not art. There isn't anything wrong with being choosy and it's understandable to want to avoid things that repulse or trigger you when what you're simply looking for is escapism.

Being choosy is never wrong anywhere, lots of people do it for mainstream media as well, don't like anime, cartoons, action, reomance, etc. But I disagree that porn can't be art for the same reasons I disagree with people who claim games in general can't be art. If there are any AVN:s that reach the level of art is debatable.

 

[TD1900]

TBut I disagree that porn can't be art for the same reasons I disagree with people who claim games in general can't be art. If there are any AVN:s that reach the level of art is debatable.

Oh, despite how I phrased that, I absolutely believe porn can be art as well. A good example of this would be Oshima's In The Realm of the Senses, which features long portrayals of the actors having unsimulated sex on screen and some pretty extreme depictions of masochism - if not extreme by today's standards, certainly for the time and place.

What I meant by the portion you quoted is that I recognize people by-and-large aren't looking at adult visual novels with a critical eye and that ties into understanding how someone might be okay with viewing a movie like Irreversible, but would absolutely avoid any game with the rape tag. Similar to your Pretty Woman -> Prostitution tag comparison.

 

[bacienvu88]

What I meant by the portion you quoted is that I recognize people by-and-large aren't looking at adult visual novels with a critical eye and that ties into understanding how someone might be okay with viewing a movie like Irreversible, but would absolutely avoid any game with the rape tag. Similar to your Pretty Woman -> Prostitution tag comparison.

Yeah, on some level I understand. But I myself tend to look at story first and kinks second. And I can take most stuff I feel comfortable with as long as the writer tries to tell a story that makes sense about it.

If we take PC as an example. I'm not a fan of prostitution and most definitely is not into sadism like Kath is. And yet I find the game pretty good because, the subject is handled well and the problem subjects integrates into the story seamlessly. No, the problems I have are rather with how MC in particular and others to a lesser degree just accepts all that is happening at the club and mostly carrying on like all is normal.

 

[Terix3]

Pale Carnations is porn, and so revolves around sexual gratification; Eyes Wide Shut, and other non-pornographic fiction does not center on sexual gratifying the viewer/reader. If someone finds a particular fetish in a porn game to be a turn-off, it's perfectly understandable that they would not want to play it. For the same reason a straight man would likely have no interest in playing a gay porn game, but would potentially have no issue in watching a movie that featured a gay couple.

Personally, I don't care about the sharing so long as it's optional.

Partially true, while fetishes doesn't apply to non-porn media preferences still do. Straight man certainly find watching gay romance to be uncomfortable. Also while they don't have porn level sex, they do often have sex scenes/fade to black scenes even if it is not romance story. Not sure if it falls into the gratification category but i often feel those scenes are forced in just so the movie have one.

I'd say it's more about it being a porn game where the the MC is an extension of the player (we make decisions on the MC's behalf), whereas in regular porn you're just watching characters. This can give sharing scenes an unpleasant, cuckold like experience for players (at least for some). I'd also say that in regular porn stories it's more about characters who are promiscuous; not a lot of emphasis is placed on relationships and infidelity, and in cases where there is a lot of emphasis there, it is often categorised as a 'cuckold' porno -- and this is unappealing to many.

I do agree that thematically the LI's sleeping with other men can make sense, as was the case in Pretty Woman, but most people who play this game do so for sexual gratification -- the same can't be said for viewers of Pretty Woman. This does speak to a tension I see within the adult visual novel space: where creators have a hard time balancing a utilitiarian commitment to 'broadly appealing fap material' and an artistic desire to create a good story.

Out of curiosity: Do you have this stance on mainstream media as well? I.e. do you refuse to watch things like Pretty Woman, Eyes Wide Shut, etc.? If not, what is the difference here?

To put simply : different level of emotional connection. RPG games and interactive fiction have the player/viewer connect with characters the most out of all media. I don't think one inserts himself into the characters when watching movie but it is common when playing said games. To emphasize that, people have no problem with MC sleeping with prostitutes in porn or non-porn fiction but the second there is emotional investment to the character they expect exclusivity.

With how over-saturated the market is, readers can afford to be choosy.

I find it to be the opposite - the market lacks porn games/VN that aspire to be more then a sum of their sex scenes. There are some in works but when you want good story you want it also to be complete.