VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Turret]

I've been playing this from update to update so I honestly don't know. I do have the mod but I don't remember any [Select All choices] code fuckery at any point. I've been toying with the idea of a clean start because I ran wild with the Toughness choices back when I first played the game so I'll notify you guys on Hana based on how it goes in my new canon run.

Did you guys actively try to get on Hana's good side the entire time?
Hana and Rosalind are my main girls (with a side-goal of turning Mina as bi as possible) so all my choices are centered around them, like choosing to accept Felicia's money to pay for Rosalind's debt.

Thank you in advance for the info about your new main playthrough and good to know!
I cannot answer for selberdreher, who is more on a Mina run according to his posts, but in my playthrough the main girls are Hana, Felicia and to a certain extend Rosi. So I tried to actively get into Hana´s and Feli´s good graces. I also made mostly nice choices with Mina, Rosi and Veronica too, but as mentioned in an earlier post, as a "plan B" option I try to raise Rosi´s (not as much) and Vera´s libido scores to have fallback options.
In Mina´s case I have a save without much of her Bi-curiousity score and one with as high as I could get to see later how that plays out.

 

[dolfe67]

Hana at 0 anger? rookie number

Spoiler: screenshot

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[selberdreher]

Did you guys actively try to get on Hana's good side the entire time?

Yes, i try to, but good Hana choices collide with Kathleens and Ians, and keeping it friendly after Edwins birthday party cuts you off of another four relationship points. That is why i only got 20/3 with her. However i am not unhappy with the situation and i am sure i can gain further ground with Hana in future updates.

Hana and Rosalind are my main girls (with a side-goal of turning Mina as bi as possible) so all my choices are centered around them, like choosing to accept Felicia's money to pay for Rosalind's debt.

Regarding my shockingly low 6/10 Rosie Score, it is -again- story time:

Back in my youthful days i was a member of a club named DLRG (this name translates to english as "German Life Saving Society"), its central purpose is to provide help to drowning people as a first responder and to assist professional rescue services on water based (Sea, Lakes and Swimming Pools) accidents.
So the thing is, drowning people often are understandably panicking, thus endangering and hampering the rescue process, and in worst case this can lead to the death of both the accident victim and the helper.
So the rescuer is allowed to make them ...comply, including stuff like dislocating joints, breaking an arm or choking them to unconsciousness. Literally "the ends justifies the means".

I took a similar approach with Rosie, making her docile and following my lead, she doesnt need to like me to profit from my help. It doesnt look like it, but i am indeed fond of her, and i plan to crawl back out of the cellar relationship wise. I do also believe, that this harsh approach hardens her resilience against the trials she is facing, and making a deal elevates her out of a dependent and receiving role, because she gets something for giving something. Edwins help is not charity, but a commodity she earned.

The same stands true with Felicias Sugar-Mama Date: i was tempted to do it for free, because it is obviously nicer and helps her with her confidence, and i really like her as a person, but opted against it. Experiencing the power she can wield with her money, being able to reverse the role she was used to her whole life, may also gain her some confidence.
Not to forget, with his own funds at his disposal, without having to ask someone for it, Edwin can also act faster and more freely if the necessity arises.

 

[ename144]

I see it similar to you, that getting too cosy with Kath will have repercutions, even if we do not side with her.. You can see it clearly in your Toughness score. with 29 you are only 1-2 points away from losing nearly all compassionate event choices and gaining really hardcore ones.
By the way, how did you get Hana´s Anger down to zero? In the beginning I could get it down to zero too, but since the 3/3 update, I do not get it lower than two. So I am really interested how you did that.

Hmmm, let's see. On my canon run, my stats are as follows:

• Mina - Acting Partner: Affection 26, Killian Romance 2, Bi-curious 0
• Hana - Friends: Affection Maxed [40, I think], Anger -1
• Rosalind - Carnation: Affection 9, Libido 1
• Veronica - Carnation: Affection 37, Horniness 13
• Felicia - Carnation: Affection 5, Self-Confidence 2
• Kathleen - Boss: Affection 7, Trust -2
• Chuck - trusted: Friendship 7
• August - untrusted: Friendship 6
• Jacob: Friendship 7
• Warren: Friendship 0
• Samson: Friendship 4
• Killian Bromance: 23
• MC - Tireless/Firestarter/Strongman: Toughness 0

Probably not much of a surprise, except maybe for Felicia poor showing; it's pretty hard to keep her affection up while deliberately avoiding fooling around with her. And I'm still on the fence about whether to scratch Veronica's back or not; I might go back and change that at some point, it really depends on how the MC reads the situation and I'm still not quite sure.

As for Hana's Anger, as near as I can tell it originally started at 0, and making a move on her at the end of Chapter 3 Update 1 reduced it by 1. But Ch3 Update 2 retconned the starting score to 3, and would overwrite the 0 when a save was loaded. But for some reason it wouldn't overwrite a non-zero value, so if you'd already slept with Hana the -1 stood. Then, at the end of Update 2, telling Hana she should become an owner of the club for money raises her anger by 1, bringing it back to 0. But I guess that 0 is far enough along that the game won't overwrite it back to 3, even though AFAIK there's no 'legitimate' way to get it to 0 in the first place.

It's all quite confusing; no wonder she's angry!

The same stands true with Felicias Sugar-Mama Date: i was tempted to do it for free, because it is obviously nicer and helps her with her confidence, and i really like her as a person, but opted against it. Experiencing the power she can wield with her money, being able to reverse the role she was used to her whole life, may also gain her some confidence.
Not to forget, with his own funds at his disposal, without having to ask someone for it, Edwin can also act faster and more freely if the necessity arises.

I fear this would have the opposite effect, convincing Felicia that her worth comes only from her looks and her access to money. I expect there will be ways to encourage her even so so I don't think you *need* to do it for free to help her, but I do think it will be harder that way.

Felicia doesn't lack for confidence when she's in a 'dominant' position; just look at how she demolishes the hostess of the fancy restaurant if the MC goes on her date in Week 1. What gives Felicia pause is when she can't just pull rank on someone. She really needs to accept that she has intrinsic value beyond the money, status and looks she usually touts, but for whatever reason she is very reluctant to do so.

 

[Garen]

Yes, i try to, but good Hana choices collide with Kathleens and Ians, and keeping it friendly after Edwins birthday party cuts you off of another four relationship points. That is why i ony got 20/3 with her. However i am not unhappy with the situation and i am sure i can gain further ground with Hana in future updates.

Regarding my shockingly low 6/10 Rosie Score, it is -again- story time:

Back in my youthful days i was a member of a club named DLRG (this name translates to english as "German Life Saving Society"), its purpose is centered to provide help to drowning people and to assist professional rescue services on water based (Sea, Lakes and Swimming Pools) accidents. So the thing is, drowning people often are understandably panicking, thus endangering and hampering the rescue process, and in worst case this can lead to the death of both the accident victim and the helper.
So the rescuer is allowed to make them ...comply, including stuff like dislocating joints, breaking an arm or choking them to unconsciousness. Literally "the ends justifies the means".

I took a similar approach with Rosie, making her docile and following my lead, she doesnt need to like me to profit from my help. It doesnt look like it, but i am indeed fond of her, and i plan to crawl back out of the cellar relationship wise. I do also believe, that this harsh approach hardens her resilience against the trials she is facing, and making a deal elevates her out of a dependent and receiving role, because she gets something for giving something. Edwins help is not charity, but a commodity she earned.

The same stands true with Felicias Sugar-Mama Date: i was tempted to do it for free, because it is obviously nicer and helps her with her confidence, and i really like her as a person, but opted against it. Experiencing the power she can wield with her money, being able to reverse the role she was used to her whole life, may also gain her some confidence.
Not to forget, with his own funds at his disposal, without having to ask someone for it, Edwin can also act faster and more freely if the necessity arises.

Sounds well thought-out but since this is a game instead of irl, I'm not sure you'll receive the dividends you're looking for.

Then again, Mina is your favourite, correct? So might as well test out your methods on the others freely.

 

[selberdreher]

Veronica - Carnation: Affection 37, Horniness 13

Wow! I didnt knew this was even possible!

Felicia - Carnation: Affection 5, Self-Confidence 2
(...)
it's pretty hard to keep her affection up while deliberately avoiding fooling around with her.

Yes, her Profile tells us "Dislikes: being left wanting, in any sense."

Rosalind - Carnation: Affection 9, Libido 1
(...)
MC - Tireless/Firestarter/Strongman: Toughness 0

This is surprising, since it seems you are playing a genuine nice guy. So i guess you turned down her Deal for Fairness Reasons?

As for Hana's Anger, (...) It's all quite confusing; no wonder she's angry!

I fear this would have the opposite effect, convincing Felicia that her worth comes only from her looks and her access to money.

This will be true if we point out at the Date, that we are only in it for the money and her looks, but if we can convince her otherwise, it should at least dont do any further damage to her confidence.

I expect there will be ways to encourage her even so so I don't think you *need* to do it for free to help her, but I do think it will be harder that way.

Yes, i also believe that it is harder that way, but truth is, myEdwin is at least partially in it for the money, so that is only fair.

Felicia doesn't lack for confidence when she's in a 'dominant' position; just look at how she demolishes the hostess of the fancy restaurant if the MC goes on her date in Week 1.

That was a great show, how Feli put the hostess back into her place, but i dont believe it was out of a position of Dominance.
Felicia is able to stand up for others (one of her endearing traits), but cannot stand up for herself.

She really needs to accept that she has intrinsic value beyond the money, status and looks (...)

Very much this! On that note i dont think she is missing confidence, because she can muster plenty for others, instead i read her confidence Stat along the lines of self-worth or self-esteem, which she lacks seriously.

And finally

Sounds well thought-out but since this is a game instead of irl, I'm not sure you'll receive the dividends you're looking for.
Then again, Mina is your favourite, correct? So might as well test out your methods on the others freely.

Mina is definetly one of my favourites, perhaps my number one, but its a close call at the top, since Felicia ranks very high in my book also.
Oh, and regarding the anticipated dividends, i think the likelihood that things will play out as i planned are at best 50:50
On the contrary, i am expecting that some of my plans and schemes will blow up into my face at some point.
I would be rather surprised if i can pull all that off, since i am up against antagonists with decades of experience.
But hey, no Risk, no Fun, neh?

 

[Garen]

Oh, and regarding the anticipated dividends, i think the likelihood that things will play out as i planned are at best 50:50
On the contrary, i am expecting that some of my plans and schemes will blow up into my face at some point.
I would be rather surprised if i can pull all that off, since i am up against antagonists with decades of experience.
But hey, no Risk, no Fun, neh?

The way I see it, your biggest antagonists are two geezers named Mutt and Jeff.

 

[Deleted member 4563316]

Am I the only one who didn´t cross the line with Mina? Because it seems like something that will bite you in the ass in future.
Bro aspect aside its something that might be brought up against you if you try to get into serious relationship. Or Kathrine might use the information for her schemes.

Guy seemed relatively happy to let me fill in for the rest of his "boyfriend" duties, may as well fill in for all of them.

 

[selberdreher]

The way I see it, your biggest antagonists are two geezers named Mutt and Jeff.

You could be right about that, Garen.

Yes, there's **at least* a couple of bad endings already in the outline, with maybe more if we find places to put good ones.
Personally I'm a HUGE fan of bad endings in visual novels, provided they're done right. That is, if they actually enhance the story and provide additional information/context to the setting as a whole. A good example of that is Amane's bad ending in the Angelic Howl Route in Grisaia no Kajitsu, if you're familiar with that one. It was emotionally potent, but it also gave away a key plot item that you couldn't gleam elsewhere. That was also my favorite thing about Fate/Stay Night. All the logically-sound bad endings that you actually get to see play out in brutal detail.

I love, love, LOVE bad endings that go beyond fade-to-black-you-fucked-up and hope to include some good ones down the road.

Nah, i am totally on the same page as TD1900, i have no qualms with bad endings, if they are done right, fit the story and i was not railroaded into them. On the contrary, sometimes i make deliberately "bad" decisions, to see how they play out and more importantly to see if i am able to wiggle my way out of them. One Example would be the wager with Ian about Alices Photo, which i was fairly sure he had, and ofc i lost the bet, so this decision will come to bite me in my ass later. I like fighting uphill battles in Games, because if i am able to actually pull them off, the outcomes feel much more rewarding. Its not that i am playing for bad Endings, but having them as alternatives adds tension to the game and weight to the good ones.

 

[selberdreher]

One Question for TD1900:
How would you Guys like Bugreports, Spelling Errors and Inconsistencies to be handled? Is there a dedicated thread on F95Zone, or should we post them here in this thread? Or do you prefer messages? I am not on Discord, so that doesnt work for me, but i am looking at that Gold Membership on Patreon, it is a shame you Guys have less then 600 of them.

Ah, okey a second (and a third) Question: i am always a bit hesitant to subscribe / unsubscribe on X different sites, so do you Guys have a kind of tip jar? Will we have the opportunity to actually buy this game at one point? (I guess not, because i read something about copyright issues somewhere), anyway i would prefer a one time transaction over repeated ones, on which i have to keep an eye every time they occur.
Keep up the good work, i am rooting for you Guys!

 

[TD1900]

One Question for TD1900:
How would you Guys like Bugreports, Spelling Errors and Inconsistencies to be handled? Is there a dedicated thread on F95Zone, or should we post them here in this thread? Or do you prefer messages? I am not on Discord, so that doesnt work for me, but i am looking at that Gold Membership on Patreon, it is a shame you Guys have less then 600 of them.

Ah, okey a second (and a third) Question: i am always a bit hesitant to subscribe / unsubscribe on X different sites, so do you Guys have a kind of tip jar? Will we have the opportunity to actually buy this game at one point? (I guess not, because i read something about copyright issues somewhere), anyway i would prefer a one time transaction over repeated ones, on which i have to keep an eye every time they occur.
Keep up the good work, i am rooting for you Guys!

1) Just send me a private message. Posting it in this thread works, but I'm more likely to keep track of a PM in the off chance I can't immediately look into the report.

2) Sorry, right now we only have a patreon. I understand the aversion to using the site, so the express desire alone is appreciated.

3) The game will always be free.

 

[Garen]

Turret selberdreher Reached the same point as my old save on my clean start.

NEW :[Chameleon] Tough/Killain 20/30, Mina 38/0/5, Hana 39/2, Rosalind 35/6, Veronica 22/16, Felicia 31/2, Kath 14/8
OLD :[Chameleon] Tough/Killian 29/35, Mina 30/1/5, Hana 37/0, Rosalind 32/8, Veronica 18/13, Felicia 32/2, Kath 19/10

As for Hana's Anger, as near as I can tell it originally started at 0, and making a move on her at the end of Chapter 3 Update 1 reduced it by 1. But Ch3 Update 2 retconned the starting score to 3, and would overwrite the 0 when a save was loaded. But for some reason it wouldn't overwrite a non-zero value, so if you'd already slept with Hana the -1 stood. Then, at the end of Update 2, telling Hana she should become an owner of the club for money raises her anger by 1, bringing it back to 0. But I guess that 0 is far enough along that the game won't overwrite it back to 3, even though AFAIK there's no 'legitimate' way to get it to 0 in the first place.

Yep, Hana_A being at 0 was definitely a lucky miss, as ^ename explained.

I planned on sticking with my old save once I caught up because of the 0 Anger glitch but seems like I might need to change my mind. Dunno where I lost a Felicia point but other than that, the new variables are way better.
Got that runaway Toughness variable under control too.

 

[Turret]

Turret selberdreher Reached the same point as my old save on my clean start. View attachment 1610371

NEW :[Chameleon] Tough/Killain 20/30, Mina 38/0/5, Hana 39/2, Rosalind 35/6, Veronica 22/16, Felicia 31/2, Kath 14/8
OLD :[Chameleon] Tough/Killian 29/35, Mina 30/1/5, Hana 37/0, Rosalind 32/8, Veronica 18/13, Felicia 32/2, Kath 19/10

Yep, Hana_A being at 0 was definitely a lucky miss, as ^ename explained.

I planned on sticking with my old save once I caught up because of the 0 Anger glitch but seems like I might need to change my mind. Dunno where I lost a Felicia point but other than that, the new variables are way better.
Got that runaway Toughness variable under control too.

Thanks for the post on this new run of yours! Seems I have to do a fresh main run too, considering how the variables and background point allocations changed with the various updates.
As for your lost Felicia point, this is interesting. I had 31/3 points at the end of the current build and it seemed to me that it was the last talk which did it. I gained a 3rd Feli confidence point for not gaining another relationship point by going to the exhibition for free.

 

[Garen]

Thanks for the post on this new run of yours! Seems I have to do a fresh main run too, considering how the variables and background point allocations changed with the various updates.
As for your lost Felicia point, this is interesting. I had 31/3 points at the end of the current build and it seemed to me that it was the last talk which did it. I gained a 3rd Feli confidence point for not gaining another relationship point by going to the exhibition for free.

I'd recommend using the walkthrough if catching up is your priority. Also use the walkthrough mod alongside because the walkthrough pdf has misallocated variables on a couple choices.

Yeah, the missing Felicia point is weird because I haven't really changed any choices with her. She seems to enjoy 'Toughness' so maybe lost a point-check somewhere with her due to insufficient Toughness?

 

[Turret]

I'd recommend using the walkthrough if catching up is your priority. Also use the walkthrough mod alongside because the walkthrough pdf has misallocated variables on a couple choices.

Yeah, the missing Felicia point is weird because I haven't really changed any choices with her. She seems to enjoy 'Toughness' so maybe lost a point-check somewhere with her due to insufficient Toughness?

Thanks for the tipp with the mod and the corrected points. That explains some "Hä" situations when it comes to the point scores following the walkthrough.

As for toughness and Felicia, you should be careful not let your toughness get too high. Feli likes a certain assertiveness, but gets turned off by obnoxious a.... Your toughness score is not only a measure of your resilence, but over a certain level it is an inofficial score of how much a pompous (and potentially sadist) asshole you are.

 

[Deleted member 4081282]

Yo this game is so good omg. You have a diamond here, dont drop it

 

[Erotica Biblion]

I don't think I've posted since the most recent update, but this was another very well-written and executed installment, in keeping with the game's existing high quality.

I think the toughest choice for me was Felicia's offer. I would have turned down the money entirely and simply chosen the date, but chose the 'help Rosie' option (as Felicia is more trustworthy than getting a favor from a club employee). From the dialogue, it seems like the date is supposed to be a 'test run' of sorts for MC/Felicia, so I am hoping there will be an option during or after it to continue the relationship without the financial aspect.

 

[ename144]

Sneaky new Dev Diary early this morning!

Spoiler: Dev Diary 32

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I wasn't expecting an update this soon, but I'm definitely not complaining. In the slightly under 8 days since our last dev diary, TD and GIL have added 183 static images and a single animation. That's an average rate of ~160 statics and 1 animation per week. Overall, the average is about 138 statics and .4 animations per week since work on Chapter 3 Update 4 began. Here's the visual version.

Spoiler: Charts When You Least Expect It!

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As you can see, we're now on pace to match Update 3's static image count around mid-April. More excitingly, we've cut the time to match Update 3's animation count down from Doomsday to Quarter 1, 2023 - a massive reduction percentage wise!

Of course, lest anyone take this too seriously, this is a gross over-simplification intended to amuse us while we wait for the next update. In reality, it's very likely the animation rate will increase once they are working on the Exhibition itself. If we use rates similar to the averages during Update 3's development (approximately 120 statics and 3.3 animations per week overall), we'd hit Update 3's animation total in late May; that could even improve by a few weeks if GIL goes with a heavier animation to static ratio. Of course, we also don't know how large Update 4 will be in comparison to Update 3. There should be lots of action at the Exhibition, but that may or may not translate to more work for the devs depending on how the branching and coding requirements pan out.

In general, I think 4.5 months is probably a decent estimate based on past history, or at least a good place to start. We'll see how that estimate holds up as time goes on. The Exhibitions aren't really my thing, but I'm still eager to see how it goes so hopefully it won't be too tough a wait.

 

[Garen]

I don't think I've posted since the most recent update, but this was another very well-written and executed installment, in keeping with the game's existing high quality.

I think the toughest choice for me was Felicia's offer. I would have turned down the money entirely and simply chosen the date, but chose the 'help Rosie' option (as Felicia is more trustworthy than getting a favor from a club employee). From the dialogue, it seems like the date is supposed to be a 'test run' of sorts for MC/Felicia, so I am hoping there will be an option during or after it to continue the relationship without the financial aspect.

You can also go to August, Chuck or Kate for the money to help Rosalind. Kate and Chuck are dangerous but August can be an option if you have enough points with him and Rosalind isn't the top priority for you.

 

[Erotica Biblion]

Killian is another 'safe' option for that; he wants sex out of it but that's more predictable than what the leadership might demand.