VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[sabadongelov]

Is the game listing towards the good guy scenario? I've kind of had this feeling for a couple of updates and in the last update there's two really good examples of it:

Spoiler

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So what do you think, is this the direction PC is heading, or are these examples indications that I've grown soft in my playstyle and somehow gotten myself on the white knight/good guy track...?

 

[starkj]

Ok, so i just finished what's available of the game and im loving it so far, i really like all 3 carnantions + Mina and Hana, i'm not even a guy who likes muscular women like Veronica but this game might change that because i have a soft spot for her. What i hope is that this game has at least a happy ending and not make me feel miserable.
Good job to the creators of the game and i'd love to see them make more games after PC.

 

[Scrounger117]

After running the game yesterday, I tried to start it today and got the audio channel exception in the trace log and the game is not starting. The LISC game solution from this forum is not working for me. Anyone can help, please?

I have the same issue, the tracelog output

  File "C:\Users\username\Games\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\audio\audio.py", line 821, in get_channel
    raise Exception("Audio channel %r is unknown." % name)
Exception: Audio channel u'menu_click' is unknown.

 

[TD1900]

So what do you think, is this the direction PC is heading, or are these examples indications that I've grown soft in my playstyle and somehow gotten myself on the white knight/good guy track...?

You're not alone. Four of five people have observed he feels unusually moralistic this update. I still currently hold that Edwin's been consistent in his character - he's been aghast over certain aspects of the club before and he's previously found comfort for his conscience in his role as an advocate - but it's (very) possible I went a little too heavy in spots. It's something I've been mulling over and trying to get some perspective on. Writing a character like Edwin, who needs to be consistently hypocritical so when the critical moment comes, both extremes of his character makes sense, can be a tricky balancing act.

To answer your question, the game's planned end states are still as it has always been. They'll be endings where Edwin embraces all the club has to offer, endings where Edwin leaves the club, and some gradation in between. You won't be forced into a good guy scenario.

I have the same issue, the tracelog output

Is this without any mods or alterations to the game's files?

 

[Scrounger117]

You're not alone. Four of five people have observed he feels unusually moralistic this update. I still currently hold that Edwin's been consistent in his character - he's been aghast over certain aspects of the club before and he's previously found comfort for his conscience in his role as an advocate - but it's (very) possible I went a little too heavy in spots. It's something I've been mulling over and trying to get some perspective on. Writing a character like Edwin, who needs to be consistently hypocritical so when the critical moment comes, both extremes of his character makes sense, can be a tricky balancing act.

To answer your question, the game's planned end states are still as it has always been. They'll be endings where Edwin embraces all the club has to offer, endings where Edwin leaves the club, and some gradation in between. You won't be forced into a good guy scenario.



Is this without any mods or alterations to the game's files?

Re-downloaded the original file, extracted to a new folder to test this out. I must have modded the other installation that results in this error. The new, un-modded copy seems to launch fine.

UPDATE: I figured out what happened, I combined two mods into the game. OOPS

 

[ename144]

Is the game listing towards the good guy scenario? I've kind of had this feeling for a couple of updates and in the last update there's two really good examples of it:

Spoiler

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So what do you think, is this the direction PC is heading, or are these examples indications that I've grown soft in my playstyle and somehow gotten myself on the white knight/good guy track...?

The MC's morality can vary a little bit from scene to scene, but I think what we saw in this episode was relatively consistent with his normal self.

Spoiler: MC's Thoughts

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You're not alone. Four of five people have observed he feels unusually moralistic this update. I still currently hold that Edwin's been consistent in his character - he's been aghast over certain aspects of the club before and he's previously found comfort for his conscience in his role as an advocate - but it's (very) possible I went a little too heavy in spots. It's something I've been mulling over and trying to get some perspective on. Writing a character like Edwin, who needs to be consistently hypocritical so when the critical moment comes, both extremes of his character makes sense, can be a tricky balancing act.

To answer your question, the game's planned end states are still as it has always been. They'll be endings where Edwin embraces all the club has to offer, endings where Edwin leaves the club, and some gradation in between. You won't be forced into a good guy scenario.

For what it's worth (with me being a hopeless softy), I thought the MC was generally well portrayed during the update. He monologues a lot about what's going on around him, but his actual actions feel in-line with his previous behavior. He's generally tried to 'emulate' good behavior as a default. Kathleen's gift has opened the door a crack, he's deliberately preventing it from opening further at this time. So I thought the options we had did a good enough job showing which side of the line he was currently on.

It's not like he could really have tried to extort a favor from Harper and Lucy (given Dalia sent him), and he does wind up getting a little insistent with Dalia in the sauna. The only potential missed opportunity I could see would be giving Emma a task he'd actually enjoy seeing if he gives her a night off on his own (rather than showing no interest in the video she sends him); I could see a high-Toughness MC trying to push the envelope under the guise of 'helping.' But that's a relatively minor omission, IMHO.

My only real complaint is the one I alluded to above: it seems a little late for the MC to be shocked at how poorly Dr. Chuck et al allow the house girls to be treated. I'm not saying an Asshole MC needs to endorse that policy right now, but it can't come as a surprise (especially if he listened in on the various conversations about how Warren treated Emma).

 

[AwsHen]

You're not alone. Four of five people have observed he feels unusually moralistic this update. I still currently hold that Edwin's been consistent in his character - he's been aghast over certain aspects of the club before and he's previously found comfort for his conscience in his role as an advocate - but it's (very) possible I went a little too heavy in spots. It's something I've been mulling over and trying to get some perspective on. Writing a character like Edwin, who needs to be consistently hypocritical so when the critical moment comes, both extremes of his character makes sense, can be a tricky balancing act.

To answer your question, the game's planned end states are still as it has always been. They'll be endings where Edwin embraces all the club has to offer, endings where Edwin leaves the club, and some gradation in between. You won't be forced into a good guy scenario.

Regardless if Edwin is consistent in his character or nor, it is possible for humans to have one opinion or feeling in this minute and a completely different opinion or feeling in the next minute, people can and will be both merciful and cruel at the same time, it will be more prominent if people who are put in unusual or extreme situations (i.e. the club) and if the person is more receptive or emotional the more extreme his/her emotional swings will be.

So its perfectly normal Edwin to think behave/think like that, since he is shown to be both good and nasty.

 

[SanaeS]

Talking about Edwin morality, what do you think it will be the choice that could make him "cross the line"?
I mean something that will undoubtedly make him "the bad guy" and unable to go back.

 

[ramvivat]

Talking about Edwin morality, what do you think it will be the choice that could make him "cross the line"?
I mean something that will undoubtedly make him "the bad guy" and unable to go back.

well - THUGNESS
you may do for THUGNESS increased or you may do for THUGNESS decreased.
nothing is too late until hammers knock over you ... (hammers that clog the lid of your coffin) I remember Jesus had an associate - he collected taxes.

 

[ramiurga]

They'll be five chapters.

Oh, no! What about the fall entertainment, and the winter show? The gentlemen need to be entertained all year round! And the MC needs more input before making any final decisions . Keep the chapters coming, please, please

 

[Phase_01]

So have creators confirmed there'll be more mom past recording scenes? Also the loophole on the "non-incest" there is weird, considering mc is watching her pornos lol
(also would be cool if there was some Killian mom/mina revenge vids we made in the negative Killian route)

 

[sabadongelov]

You're not alone. Four of five people have observed he feels unusually moralistic this update.

Interesting that you have that statistic. And also that I'm not exactly alone in feeling this way.

I still currently hold that Edwin's been consistent in his character - he's been aghast over certain aspects of the club before and he's previously found comfort for his conscience in his role as an advocate - but it's (very) possible I went a little too heavy in spots. It's something I've been mulling over and trying to get some perspective on. Writing a character like Edwin, who needs to be consistently hypocritical so when the critical moment comes, both extremes of his character makes sense, can be a tricky balancing act.

Yeah, I get that it’s difficult to create one size fits all reactions for what is basically two (or more) different personalities. But I think I know a possible solution that would solve both our problems: Having more choice regarding reactions and actions taken by Edwin, where the difference is connected to toughness and affect that same score. That of course mean that you would have to write more dialogue, but on the other hand, you won’t have to spend as much time on trying to come up with reactions/actions that make sense both for maximum toughness Edwin and minimum toughness Edwin.

And now that I think about it, I have a feeling there were many more such choices in the early portions of the game, which might explain why I feel the later chapters feel more good-guy-leaning (because it’s more one size fits all and that, at least in the latter stages of the game list more towards minimum toughness Edwin).

To answer your question, the game's planned end states are still as it has always been. They'll be endings where Edwin embraces all the club has to offer, endings where Edwin leaves the club, and some gradation in between. You won't be forced into a good guy scenario.

Great!

Anyway, thanks for the reply and thanks for a great game!

The MC's morality can vary a little bit from scene to scene, but I think what we saw in this episode was relatively consistent with his normal self.

Spoiler: MC's Thoughts

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I can’t say I get the “of course!!!” feeling out of your explanation, but also can't say that it feels wrong. However, as the game is structured with Edwin constantly giving the player his reasoning and feelings regarding both what’s happening around him and what he himself is saying and doing, I think we (as players) should be given the real reason behind why Edwin does what he does, when the explanations he gives other characters in the game are lies. Unless it’s obvious that he's lying and what his real reasons are, in which case it's not neccessary for him to pontificate on them. If we're given such reasons, extra options/choices are not neccessary.

Another way to solve it is simply not have Rosalind offer him oral sex. But if the dev want to make a point out of her trying to make him exploit her and him resisting it (we assume your explanation is correct), then Edwins reasoning should be fleshed out in the game, so as to make it apparant what's going on.

As for “sex is not a high priority”, I think that is a terrible attitude to have in a porn game…

Spoiler: MC's Thoughts

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Maybe I misremembered that he said he would do something about it, but definitely not him having an over the top reaction to something he should have been able to see coming from miles away. And I didn’t read his reaction as “confusion”, but rather as righteous anger at a perceived injustice. A reaction which together with his expressed shock leads Dalia to view him as a good hearted and naïve youngling out of his depth (since she more or less says as much), which in itself is telling about his reaction. A maximum toughness Edwin is definitely not a naïve softie, and it feels a little bit off to me to have him react in a way that make people think that he is, especially in a place where being viewed as a naïve softie might be a liability.

Regardless, I think these kind of situations would be best handled by letting the player choose how Edwin reacts (se above), rather than trying to construct a one size fits all reaction that works both for maximum toughness Edwin and minimum toughness Edwin (because that is inherently difficult and will likely not always work out perfectly).

A sidenote here is that if 4 out of 5 players feel that Edwin is playing up his moralistic side in the last update, but you, who prefer minimum toughness Edwin, feel it’s all good, maybe your take is influenced by you simply not playing as maximum toughness Edwin?

 

[TD1900]

Interesting that you have that statistic. And also that I'm not exactly alone in feeling this way.

Oh, I'm sure it's more than that, that's just the expressed comments here that I remember reading - and my memory could be on the gentler side. Still, point is, you're not the first to bring it up.

Anyway, thank you for the food for thought.

 

[selberdreher]

Interesting that you have that statistic. And also that I'm not exactly alone in feeling this way.

Yeah, I get that it’s difficult to create one size fits all reactions for what is basically two (or more) different personalities. But I think I know a possible solution that would solve both our problems: Having more choice regarding reactions and actions taken by Edwin, where the difference is connected to toughness and affect that same score. That of course mean that you would have to write more dialogue, but on the other hand, you won’t have to spend as much time on trying to come up with reactions/actions that make sense both for maximum toughness Edwin and minimum toughness Edwin.

And now that I think about it, I have a feeling there were many more such choices in the early portions of the game, which might explain why I feel the later chapters feel more good-guy-leaning (because it’s more one size fits all and that, at least in the latter stages of the game list more towards minimum toughness Edwin).

(...)

I can’t say I get the “of course!!!” feeling out of your explanation, but also can't say that it feels wrong. However, as the game is structured with Edwin constantly giving the player his reasoning and feelings regarding both what’s happening around him and what he himself is saying and doing, I think we (as players) should be given the real reason behind why Edwin does what he does, when the explanations he gives other characters in the game are lies. Unless it’s obvious that he's lying and what his real reasons are, in which case it's not neccessary for him to pontificate on them. If we're given such reasons, extra options/choices are not neccessary.

(...)

Maybe I misremembered that he said he would do something about it, but definitely not him having an over the top reaction to something he should have been able to see coming from miles away. And I didn’t read his reaction as “confusion”, but rather as righteous anger at a perceived injustice. A reaction which together with his expressed shock leads Dalia to view him as a good hearted and naïve youngling out of his depth (since she more or less says as much), which in itself is telling about his reaction. A maximum toughness Edwin is definitely not a naïve softie, and it feels a little bit off to me to have him react in a way that make people think that he is, especially in a place where being viewed as a naïve softie might be a liability.

Regardless, I think these kind of situations would be best handled by letting the player choose how Edwin reacts (se above), rather than trying to construct a one size fits all reaction that works both for maximum toughness Edwin and minimum toughness Edwin (because that is inherently difficult and will likely not always work out perfectly).

A sidenote here is that if 4 out of 5 players feel that Edwin is playing up his moralistic side in the last update, but you, who prefer minimum toughness Edwin, feel it’s all good, maybe your take is influenced by you simply not playing as maximum toughness Edwin?

I have been struggling to write an indepth review of the latest update since public release, because it is really hard to point out where and in which way it didnt meet my expectations; it is hard because voicing a nuanced critique in an foreign language on a essentially very good and still way above average update takes me a lot of time and effort. It is hard because even if we know TD1900 is a good sport in taking substantial critique, i think nobody is above of involuntary feeling a little bit hurt when some rando pokes at their product i believe so much time and passion went into.
It is like your mother prepared for hours a feast and you publicly comment about the lack of salt in her soup at the dinner table in front of the whole family. I did something similar, and although i was technically right, it was less than stellar in that setting.
So should we avoid critique? Of course not, because i believe we, the fanbase, and Team Jeff&Mutt share the same goal: creating a game we both love. So i will try to tread with care.
To reuse above example: with this update TD1900 served a lovely home-cooked meal, but we were spoiled by their award winning chef cuisine in former updates.

Initially i was planning on a second playthrough of the latest update, in order to discuss my perceived strengthes and weaknesses of each scene. With the next update still months away, i am confident to be able to deliver a more balanced and fairer assessment at a later date. However, i wanted to chip into the present discussion instead of responding to some week-old posts of fellow members. So this is a bit quick and dirty shot from the hip and does not fully represent my view.

Overall i felt the latest update to be underutilized, and i am pretty much on the same page as sabadongelov. In nearly every scene i felt there was a decision or choice missing to enhance our agency on Edwins involve- and development.
Just two examples out of many:
At the restaurant -as i understand the situation-, Feli going for a fag outside and Rosie leaving for the toilet was designed in order to have Edwin an one on one with Veronica, but still i would have preferred to have an option to follow Rosie to the toilet or to catch some fresh air with Feli. For instance with following Rosie to the toilet we could have had a quick chat about meeting in the parking lot after the meal (and perhaps even gain or lose an affection point with another choice there) and then looping back to the Veronica situation. With Felicia we could have had a longer chat about the upcoming sugar-mommy date or something like her expectations about the exhibition, without looping back to Veronica, because Rosie would have finished her bathroom visit already.
The second example would be the human toilet scene with Cassandra in the velvet room. This was a Grade A missed chance to earn some Brownie points with Kathleen by making a degrading comment or loosing toughness by expressing disgust. Victoria raised no slow dummy, and some of us players were quite familiar with the watersport content provided so far. Being surprised may have been a good neutral choice for for those who avoided that content.

sabadongelov felt there were more choices in earlier parts of the game and without doing the actual count it is hard to tell for sure, but i definetly second this feeling.
I do understand there have to be restrictions on how much content each scene inside an update gets, because every author doesnt have infinite time and needs to get things actually done, but this update was the first time had the feeling -and this sounds super harsh and i am very well aware this is probably completely unfounded and unfair- that TD1900 cut some corners to finish the update on schedule.

Despite there being more, i will leave it for now, because without counterbalancing my critique with the really, really good, strong and positive scenes and situations (there are plenty of those too!) this post spirals into unintended negativity.
Please be aware that i fully recognize your effort and all my critique is born out of love and the greedy, self-centered notion of contributing to better an already great game!

 

[Tumai]

Oh, I'm sure it's more than that, that's just the expressed comments here that I remember reading - and my memory could be on the gentler side. Still, point is, you're not the first to bring it up.

Anyway, thank you for the food for thought.

I would say that the game itself is "subconsciously" nudging us toward the kinder side as all the 5 main LIs favor a more empathetic MC and, for 90% of us, getting favor/advancement with LIs influences what choices we pick.

The only female character that likes a ruthless/sado MC is Kathleen (and perhaps the chess playing nurse, although we've hardly interacted with her so far). It'll be interesting to see if any of the house girls are elevated (in the same way that Quinn, Lily, Envy, Riona are in BaDIK) to make going for "stay with the hoes at the club" ending more enticing.

 

[docute1357]

full gallery unlocked

put in folder game

 

[sabadongelov]

Oh, I'm sure it's more than that, that's just the expressed comments here that I remember reading - and my memory could be on the gentler side. Still, point is, you're not the first to bring it up.

Anyway, thank you for the food for thought.

No, thank you for the game!

I have been struggling to write an indepth review of the latest update since public release, because it is really hard to point out where and in which way it didnt meet my expectations; it is hard because voicing a nuanced critique in an foreign language on a essentially very good and still way above average update takes me a lot of time and effort. It is hard because even if we know TD1900 is a good sport in taking substantial critique, i think nobody is above of involuntary feeling a little bit hurt when some rando pokes at their product i believe so much time and passion went into.
It is like your mother prepared for hours a feast and you publicly comment about the lack of salt in her soup at the dinner table in front of the whole family. I did something similar, and although i was technically right, it was less than stellar in that setting.
So should we avoid critique? Of course not, because i believe we, the fanbase, and Team Jeff&Mutt share the same goal: creating a game we both love. So i will try to tread with care.
To reuse above example: with this update TD1900 served a lovely home-cooked meal, but we were spoiled by their award winning chef cuisine in former updates.

Initially i was planning on a second playthrough of the latest update, in order to discuss my perceived strengthes and weaknesses of each scene. With the next update still months away, i am confident to be able to deliver a more balanced and fairer assessment at a later date. However, i wanted to chip into the present discussion instead of responding to some week-old posts of fellow members. So this is a bit quick and dirty shot from the hip and does not fully represent my view.

Overall i felt the latest update to be underutilized, and i am pretty much on the same page as sabadongelov. In nearly every scene i felt there was a decision or choice missing to enhance our agency on Edwins involve- and development.
Just two examples out of many:
At the restaurant -as i understand the situation-, Feli going for a fag outside and Rosie leaving for the toilet was designed in order to have Edwin an one on one with Veronica, but still i would have preferred to have an option to follow Rosie to the toilet or to catch some fresh air with Feli. For instance with following Rosie to the toilet we could have had a quick chat about meeting in the parking lot after the meal (and perhaps even gain or lose an affection point with another choice there) and then looping back to the Veronica situation. With Felicia we could have had a longer chat about the upcoming sugar-mommy date or something like her expectations about the exhibition, without looping back to Veronica, because Rosie would have finished her bathroom visit already.
The second example would be the human toilet scene with Cassandra in the velvet room. This was a Grade A missed chance to earn some Brownie points with Kathleen by making a degrading comment or loosing toughness by expressing disgust. Victoria raised no slow dummy, and some of us players were quite familiar with the watersport content provided so far. Being surprised may have been a good neutral choice for for those who avoided that content.

sabadongelov felt there were more choices in earlier parts of the game and without doing the actual count it is hard to tell for sure, but i definetly second this feeling.
I do understand there have to be restrictions on how much content each scene inside an update gets, because every author doesnt have infinite time and needs to get things actually done, but this update was the first time had the feeling -and this sounds super harsh and i am very well aware this is probably completely unfounded and unfair- that TD1900 cut some corners to finish the update on schedule.

Despite there being more, i will leave it for now, because without counterbalancing my critique with the really, really good, strong and positive scenes and situations (there are plenty of those too!) this post spirals into unintended negativity.
Please be aware that i fully recognize your effort and all my critique is born out of love and the greedy, self-centered notion of contributing to better an already great game!

I agree and want to add that this is one of the absolute most qualitative games that can be found on this site and it would be worth playing even if the high toughness Edwin route were to be dropped entirely. And while I have the complaint about the last update that I have, I still enjoyed it immensely.

 

[sabadongelov]

I would say that the game itself is "subconsciously" nudging us toward the kinder side as all the 5 main LIs favor a more empathetic MC and, for 90% of us, getting favor/advancement with LIs influences what choices we pick.

The only female character that likes a ruthless/sado MC is Kathleen (and perhaps the chess playing nurse, although we've hardly interacted with her so far). It'll be interesting to see if any of the house girls are elevated (in the same way that Quinn, Lily, Envy, Riona are in BaDIK) to make going for "stay with the hoes at the club" ending more enticing.

This is something I’ve been thinking about also, that the affinity system is kind of set up in a way that will guide players toward a non maximum toughness playstyle. It’s exacerbated by the fact that there is a ceiling on toughness (caped at 30 if I’m not mistaken) that is reached quite quickly, at which point the player has even less incentive to choose toughness-options when they come with an affinity cost towards one or several of the LI:s. However, maybe there is a similar effect regarding minimum toughness playstyles also, as that is likely caped as well.

That said, I will now anyway give a counterpoint.

Firstly, it’s not quite true that five LI:s favour minimum toughness and just one favour maximum toughness. While Felicia doesn’t seem to be sadistic, like Kathleen, you don’t risk many of her affinity points by choosing toughness maximazation. On the contrary, I think you’re better off playing a tough Edwin if you want to score with her in the long run. Secondly, so far you haven’t lost much (any?) affinity points with Mina and Hana by maximizing toughness either. That is however probably mainly due to the relationship building with Mina and Hana up to the last update not really mixing with the sordid business at PC. But it means the last word isn’t said about these LI’s not working for a maximum toughness Edwin, or even if they would long term work for a minimum toughness Edwin, even though their personalities would indicate they would prefer the minimum toughness Edwin.

Secondly, Toughness choices do sometimes have a direct pay off effect (for instance, the first scene with Rosalind) that I do not think non toughness choices ever have. That could mean that a player could square the loss of potential LI:s with the gain of more scenes. However, as TD1900 expressed above, they’ve invested in making sure that a player should not miss out on scenes by choosing a more moral playstyle. That means that while the toughness choice might result in direct scene payoff, you don’t gain more scenes by playing tough as the non toughness choices give alternative scenes down the line. Following that same logic, a toughness play through should not give less opportunity for romancing LI:s than a non toughness play trough.

So, if we presently view Veronica and Rosalind as non toughness LI:s and Kathleen and Felicia as toughness LI:s, that leaves two LI:s that haven’t been assigned yet, Mina and Hana (meaning, so far you have been able to maximize their affection regardless of playing tough or not). As I mentioned, going on their presented personalities would indicate both would end up in the non toughness camp, but as a toughness player should not be penalized for his/her playstyle, we can’t have that! So, who should then turn to the dark side?

Well, Mina is the youngest and most impressionable and have also not really been introduced to the depraved workings of PC, so we don’t really know yet what she would think about it. While she seem bubbly innocent, she has already shown she is both willing and ready to cheat on her boyfriend with his best friend, which means that she is willing to forgo morality to sate/slake her lust/passion. That said, PC is extreme to the max and it would be mightily convenient if we’re to find out that the cute and seemingly innocent teenaged girlfriend of our best friend, that we just stole from him, is in reality a depraved sadist deep down. You know, oh, what great luck that she who we started a serious relationship just happen to go for the same depraved shit as we do.

Hana, on the other hand we know hate PC and what goes on there. But that also make her *very* delicious to corrupt. And she has just recently accepted the position as some sort of heiress to her fathers share of PC, something that tells us that her relationship to PC isn’t perhaps quite as simple as she herself has made it sound. At the very least, there is certainly an opening for corruption here, as a more stalwart moral do good:er wouldn’t have accepted that position. After all, she knows what it entails and yet she still accepts. She is in other words open for corrupting influences.

Add to this that she now will watch the depraved acts intently in a way she hasn’t before. Regardless of moral compass, what will happen if she finds herself getting aroused by the depravity? It could begin with something as seemingly innocent as simply getting aroused by seeing carnal and wanton acts of sex play out in front of her very eyes and then bloom from there in a more perverse direction.

Even more importantly, a maximum toughness Edwin who she has a relationship with can be there to prod and pull her along, contributing to the corruption and cajoling her into accepting and finally revelling in the depravity.

One terrific way to go about this is with the use of jealousy. Hana is after all both a passionate and quite angry young woman. But she has so far not shown any signs of jealousy (which of course is convenient, considering what Edwin does for a living and the premise of the game). I mean, she has even seen Edwin fuck the Carnations and her only complaint so far is if he treated them badly.

But what if that is because he so far has treated the carnations as objects, as fuck-toys, as whores there to be humiliated, exploited and used for the pleasure of the patrons? What would she feel if she sees him not only show kindness, but actual passion, warmth and affection towards one or several of the carnations, in the throes of what could be called lovemaking? What would she feel if she sees the carnation/carnations return these positive emotions? If she suddenly realize that the carnation/carnations could become rival/s for Edwins affection? What if that lights a fire of jealousy, anger and rage and even hatred within her heart?

That could very well lead down a dark path for her, where she would want Edwin to mistreat, humiliate and hurt the carnations as opposed to any sort of positive treatment, as she can’t demand that he stop having sex with them given their position at PC. And from there, the corruption can flow, where she will eventually learn to sexually enjoy dominating and humiliating her perceived rivals and then any woman unlucky to fall in the claws of PC, even at some time replacing Kathleen, whom she would still hate, not the least if she, Kathleen, also has designs on Edwins heart strings. I think this would probably be the most gratifying possible LI-arc for a maximum toughness Edwin that I can think of.

 

[Turret]

Hi!
I like the update, so the following is not to be seen as critic, but some thoughts, ideas and commentary on the game.

Toughness: We should not go for absolutes in Edwin´s behaviour. Very few people are one thing or the other. For instance, in my "pragmatic" playthrough Edwin (renamed, since Edwin is a very rare name in my country) is a genuine nice guy, trying to help people.
But this does not make him incapable of considering other options how to do it. He e.g. took the "Harper Gift" from Kath for purely strategic reasons. Both MC and player did not like what happened to Harper one bit and took some softening options, but did it for the Brownie points with Kath. If the MC wants to influence the fate of PC and the Carnations later on, he needs some trust and goodwill from August, Chuck and Kath first. So currently he toes the "company line" with Kath on small things and tries to bend and circumvent them and bigger ones when he can. Additionally he tries to get into Chuck´s and Augusts´ good graces (doubly so in August´s case since he is on Hana´s path). This has left Edwin with rather good standing among the PC leadership, which helped him greatly during the last exhibition.
Here he took quite a drop on stats with Kath because he chose nice options, like tickling the answer out of Felicia, but due to his work before Edwin still has okayish stats with Kath and really good ones with the other two owners, giving him options. Options like helping Jakob and girlfriend (it seems he fancies her enough to get into a fight for her) Emma out without having to worry much about backlash.

And Edwin´s niceness does not prevent him from contemplating helping, but pragmatic solutions, esp. when something does not sit well with him. As an example, Veronica´s standing with this Edwin dropped quite a bit during the new update. As we learned during the sauna visit, Samson´s dickmove meddling might have pushed Veronica onto this path, but that was just recognising a chance. The gym already was a millstone around the neck, Sam "just" added the whipped cream topping on it.

Veronica had already destroyed her marriage for a fracking gym studio, one her old trainer even warned her about before selling out to Sam. And Sam even told us that Veronica could easily walk away and start anew with another gym, there is still time for it, but that she won´t because of her pigheadedness. (pot please meet kettle, Sam and Vera are from the same cloth) And we know from Vera herself that even a win at PC is just a band aid. But pardon me, that drops her reason to be at PC very deep. She ruined her marriage, her friendship with Samson(it is hinted they had one), it seems her relations with family too and her finances for a Gym she was warned about by her trainer and even the guy who hastened the mess Veronica is in. And again, Samson himself stated that Vera could still start anew fresh, it is not too late for that. She could still have/live her dream without competing at PC.
So sorry, but for me this makes her reason for being at PC even worse than Feli´s. Felicia might be eccentric with an eccentric reason to compete, but she stands to win substancially if she wins in the end and even a loss might bring her at least some of the influence network she aspires to. She will not be worse off either way. Rosi simply has no other option to raise the needed money quickly enough.

And what IMO shines also through during the game, is that Sam has a big crush for Veronica. Most of what he did is because he could not land with her. He might be a dick and ass, but in a certain way those two deserve each other. I look forward to see if there is a possibility to couple them up, if Vera does not win.

 

[LastSonOfPersia]

Hello, so my save file were I chose Veronica as my partner is not working since the new update, other 3 work fine, is there any solution to this, or do I have to start from the beginning?

I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
  File "renpy/common/00gamemenu.rpy", line 173, in script
    $ ui.interact()
  File "renpy/common/00gamemenu.rpy", line 173, in <module>
    $ ui.interact()
  File "renpy/common/00action_file.rpy", line 452, in __call__
    renpy.load(fn)
Exception: Couldn't find a place to stop rolling back. Perhaps the script changed in an incompatible way?

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
  File "renpy/common/00gamemenu.rpy", line 173, in script
    $ ui.interact()
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\ast.py", line 914, in execute
    renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\python.py", line 2028, in py_exec_bytecode
    exec bytecode in globals, locals
  File "renpy/common/00gamemenu.rpy", line 173, in <module>
    $ ui.interact()
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\ui.py", line 297, in interact
    rv = renpy.game.interface.interact(roll_forward=roll_forward, **kwargs)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\core.py", line 2702, in interact
    repeat, rv = self.interact_core(preloads=preloads, trans_pause=trans_pause, **kwargs)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\core.py", line 3518, in interact_core
    rv = root_widget.event(ev, x, y, 0)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\transition.py", line 47, in event
    return self.new_widget.event(ev, x, y, st)  # E1101
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\screen.py", line 714, in event
    rv = self.child.event(ev, x, y, st)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 244, in event
    rv = d.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, st)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\layout.py", line 998, in event
    rv = i.event(ev, x - xo, y - yo, cst)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\behavior.py", line 962, in event
    return handle_click(self.clicked)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\behavior.py", line 897, in handle_click
    rv = run(action)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\behavior.py", line 313, in run
    new_rv = run(i, *args, **kwargs)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\display\behavior.py", line 320, in run
    return action(*args, **kwargs)
  File "renpy/common/00action_file.rpy", line 452, in __call__
    renpy.load(fn)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\loadsave.py", line 770, in load
    log.unfreeze(roots, label="_after_load")
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\python.py", line 1983, in unfreeze
    self.rollback(0, force=True, label=label, greedy=greedy, on_load=True)
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\python.py", line 1815, in rollback
    self.load_failed()
  File "C:\Users\User\Downloads\PaleCarnations-Ch3Up4Public-pc\renpy\python.py", line 1733, in load_failed
    raise Exception("Couldn't find a place to stop rolling back. Perhaps the script changed in an incompatible way?")
Exception: Couldn't find a place to stop rolling back. Perhaps the script changed in an incompatible way?

Windows-7-6.1.7601-SP1
Ren'Py 7.3.5.606
Pale Carnations Ch3Up4Public
Thu Jul 07 21:14:23 2022