selberdreher

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Dec 29, 2017
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I starting to get the feeling we are talking past each other here, that or I'm just really bad at making my thoughts clear and/or understanding yours. I would almost second everything you wrote here.

It's not that i want Lucy to have some sort of "magic Plot Armor" so she is saved from all/most of the abuse. I only try to advocate that we both can and should get something to enjoy with her Character. Right now she only caters to the Fantasy of Abusing/Breaking an innocent Women.

Although i as well have a "Dark Spot" in my mind that enjoys the Fantasy of Rape and Abuse from Time to Time, i need at least to feel indifferent towards the Character subjected to it. Or, like with Kathleen, think of the Character as someone who deserves what is comming to him/her.

I would love to reduce Kathleen to a slobbering broken mess for her Actions and wouldn't feel bad about it for only a second.
As for Lucy i don't have such excuse so i can't help myself other than feeling hurt when i have to see her suffering.
Until ename144 told me about the Scene where MC seems to at least trying to console her, i got the Picture that he was hardcoded to being indifferent towards her. Now i have at least a glimpse of hope that in the future, if she comes back and hopefully becomes a more Important/fleshed out Character, the MC will have more options with her, like with the other Women.

So my whole point with Lucy was from the beginning not that she is not meant to being abused at all, but that she is (right now) handled different from the other, more important feeling Characters. She feels badly balanced right now, as i said kinda halfassed, as if there was to much work put into her Model to not use it again, but also she was/is not seen as worth enough to invest more time/thought into her to make her a real, fleshed out side Character. This may change in the future, and i hope, if she becomes the prominent Proxy for the House Girls MC get's more options with her.
With the preface of my former posts, i have to say well done, TD1900, mission accomplished. You achieved to make a side character with a probably distinctive narrative role so likeable, that we start to care for her.

vakkyr i understand and respect your position, and i am all in to enhance our agency in determining the fate of the characters.

However, i am also all in for letting TD1900 tell their story, since they did a stellar job sofar, and if they decide to keep Lucy a mere side character for illustration purposes only, i am fine with it.

I really wish for all the more important Characters to have at least an "Good" Arc for me, and an "Evil" Arc for you.
That would be indeed preferable if it's done right. Again, i am very fond of giving agency to the players.

But shoehorning a 'Happy Ending' into the story just for the sake of it, would be detrimental in my opinion.
What if the author intented to write a tragedy?
Romeo and Juliet is what it is because they both die, if they would overcome their families enmity or would elope together to live happily ever after it would be a completely different story, and quite probably not considered as one of the greatest romantic plays of all time.

For now i trust TD1900 enough to pull it off, one way or the other. Don't loose hope, vakkyr! :cool:(y)

P.S. i want to elaborate a bit more on the "(... ) 'Evil' Arc for you", but that's for another post.

P.P.S. also
I would love to reduce Kathleen to a slobbering broken mess for her Actions and wouldn't feel bad about it for only a second.
:sneaky::devilish:
:love:(y)
 
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selberdreher

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Dec 29, 2017
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Where i'm strongly against you is with the Woodman stuff. I've seen a couple of them and it looks like the reason you seem to like them is the reason for me why i resent them. We are no longer talking about a Fantasy and/or fictional Characters here. We are talking about real people who have been exploited by an asshole. That is a line i will not cross and to be honest, people that go off on this, they disgust me, or at least their enjoyment of this does. Yes Porn often isn't a nice Bussiness in generall but stuff like the Woodmann Vids and similar content is one of the worst stuff that is out there. In my Opinion.
Oh, i don't wanted to recommened his stuff to anyone, and it is indeed controversial, your feelings about it is more than ok, it's probably healthy.

No, i used this real world example to underline my statement about 'breaking in new sex workers into the business in a especially disgusting way' and how Lucys handling is grounded in reality, it is sadly not overly exaggerated.
 
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Vakkyr

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Jun 18, 2017
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What if the author intented to write a tragedy?
Then the Author should have written a Book/Light or Graphic Novelle or Play not a VN. Or at least tag the VN as "Kinetic" when the Story is already set and the choices Players have are having no impact, This way people know what to expect.

If a play a Game and have coices i expect them to have an impact, if not they are meaningless and redundant. You still can tell the Story you want even with different Endings. Yes even if a Happy Ending where to be kinda shoehorned in, you still can consider the more "Evil" ending canon and loose nothing but instead adding more value for different Players with it.

Just look at the Carnations, Rose looks quite clear like the "canon choice" as a Li, still you are free to choose Veronica or Felicia if you want. It doesn't watering down the Quality of the Writing or the Characters, it ads variety and more value to the Story.
 
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Turret

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Jun 23, 2017
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If this choice would be only between running away (with his Li) leaving everyone else behind, or falling for the Club and embracing it's gruel debauchery, it would be an extremely dissapointing and unsatisfying End in my eyes. At least for all of us that don't want to embrace our Darker side.

If i could wish for a way to End PC i would wish for something like the old Fallouts did for their Endings, especially Fallout 2 comes to my mind. Like having 2 or 3 "Main Endings" lets call them Good, Evil and maybe a Bad End if MC stays non committal until the End, and after this show us how the Story Arcs/ Endings of the other (side) Characters and if/how they where influenced by us and give us some closure on them with that.

Of course this would mean quite a lot of work for Scripting and Writing but i think it would be worth the effort.
I truly doubt the endings of PC being this black and white once they arrive. TD hinted that there will be "good", "evil" and something of "neutral" endings for both Edwin staying in the Club as well as leaving. The neutral ones I think will be short and not very in depth, since an important part of the game is how Edwin copes with his morals, temptation, love interests and the Club. As TD stated, one day Edwin has to decide if he stays or leaves, but it is very much how we played the game under which circumstances this happens.
Many pages ago I wrote my Theory what might be the various Ends of PC with Edwin and Hana a couple. What we learned in the meantime seems to indicate I am not too far away (outside the curveball endings)from what will come.
- One is the pure Love route, which might see the end of the club at high moral levels or massive reforms done, with the mending of fences between Hana and August in addition. No to just slight/medium corruption of Hana (if MC and Hana want to test out a couple things, if they like it).

- Next is a positive Love route with MC and Hana (maybe Ian as well) being groomed to be the successors of the current leaders at PC. Would surly feature reforms too, if morals are good. There are hints of this if you play the Hana route and talk to August and Chuck often. And it becomes clear that August wants to repair the damage in his relationship with his daughter, he just does not really know how, cue us MCs.:cool:
Corruption could range from zero (Hana is shown to be pragmatic and thinking clearly on most things) over some/medium corruption (encouraged curiosity despite not convinced at start) to full corruption, if the MC likes his SO to be a loose cannon in bed.
e.g. testing porn acting (too much hints of it not only for Hana but others as well), girl-girl, sharing/swinging or a couple shifts in PC to see how it is. (while the majority does not, there are, most often hobby, prostitutes who like doing it)

- Another path would be the Dark Love one, Hana and the MC are a devoted couple, but the MC likes Hana to be as uninhibited and slutty as she can be and this Edwin is no angel too. This path naturally would feature major corruption efforts, like the ones above and additional ones like e.g. Hana "testdriving" August. See one of the dreams Edwin has in game, which is close to this scenario.

- The final path would be two-pronged depending on corruption level. In this storyline MC and Hana would be friends (maybe with benefits) and if Hana stays uncorrupted or just a bit, then MC helps her getting free of PC, in the case of a strongly corrupted Hana she is in PC for longer.
 

Vakkyr

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Jun 18, 2017
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I truly doubt the endings of PC being this black and white once they arrive. TD hinted that there will be "good", "evil" and something of "neutral" endings for both Edwin staying in the Club as well as leaving. The neutral ones I think will be short and not very in depth, since an important part of the game is how Edwin copes with his morals, temptation, love interests and the Club. As TD stated, one day Edwin has to decide if he stays or leaves, but it is very much how we played the game under which circumstances this happens.
Many pages ago I wrote my Theory what might be the various Ends of PC with Edwin and Hana a couple. What we learned in the meantime seems to indicate I am not too far away (outside the curveball endings)from what will come.
- One is the pure Love route, which might see the end of the club at high moral levels or massive reforms done, with the mending of fences between Hana and August in addition. No to just slight/medium corruption of Hana (if MC and Hana want to test out a couple things, if they like it).

- Next is a positive Love route with MC and Hana (maybe Ian as well) being groomed to be the successors of the current leaders at PC. Would surly feature reforms too, if morals are good. There are hints of this if you play the Hana route and talk to August and Chuck often. And it becomes clear that August wants to repair the damage in his relationship with his daughter, he just does not really know how, cue us MCs.:cool:
Corruption could range from zero (Hana is shown to be pragmatic and thinking clearly on most things) over some/medium corruption (encouraged curiosity despite not convinced at start) to full corruption, if the MC likes his SO to be a loose cannon in bed.
e.g. testing porn acting (too much hints of it not only for Hana but others as well), girl-girl, sharing/swinging or a couple shifts in PC to see how it is. (while the majority does not, there are, most often hobby, prostitutes who like doing it)

- Another path would be the Dark Love one, Hana and the MC are a devoted couple, but the MC likes Hana to be as uninhibited and slutty as she can be and this Edwin is no angel too. This path naturally would feature major corruption efforts, like the ones above and additional ones like e.g. Hana "testdriving" August. See one of the dreams Edwin has in game, which is close to this scenario.

- The final path would be two-pronged depending on corruption level. In this storyline MC and Hana would be friends (maybe with benefits) and if Hana stays uncorrupted or just a bit, then MC helps her getting free of PC, in the case of a strongly corrupted Hana she is in PC for longer.
I didn't read your Post i full to not spoiler me to much but i think i get what you mean.

I'm totally down for making the Endings as varied as possible. That's why i would love for the Side Characters to have their own Story Arcs not hardbound to the MC's one. This way you can have varied Endings even if the MC can only decide between one Major "Good", "Neutral/Bad" and "Evil" Ending.

(I mentioned the old Fallout Endings as a good exemple for endings like that, there you could choose the "Good Ending" but still leave, for at least some Characters/Factions, or all of them, a path of destruction and mysery behind you in the process of reaching it. It of course wouldn't work 1:1 for PC but something similar could work nicely i think)

But that said i think by having sort of a "Good/Neutral/Bad Ending" regardless if he stays or want's to leave the Club makes the decision of leaving or staying much less important/impactfull if not redundant.

I ever saw the decision of wanting to leave or stay as the main branching point for the MC where he has to decide if he gives in to his darker desires and embraces them while staying with the Club, or if his more "Good site" wins out and he decides to resist the Temptations and wants to leave/destroy the Club. From there on onwards, the MS's Story would be much more linear and straight forward to establish a good Dramaturgy and Pacing leading up to the great finale.

An Neutral End in my opinion would be wasted Time to write as i, right now, can't see a way to write it in a way so it wouldn't feel meaningless. If you want a third Ending a "Bad End" would be still difficult to pull of but better in my eyes.
 
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Vakkyr

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Jun 18, 2017
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IIRC Edwin says that he has not had a chance to prove if he is good or bad before he gets the invitation the club (while he was watching his mom's videos), if that is the case its something that he struggles with before the club enters the picture which makes sense from what we have seen from his backstory and what he told the carnations about the first time they have a meal together.
That was what i thougt mainly aswell, he sees/ want's to see himself a a decent human being but is unsure because he never had to prove it to himself that he is. That changes as the Club enters his Life
I can see the club (more chuck/august) allowing edwin to leave, Chuck cares enough about Edwin to consider him family (Chuck says this to both Edwin and Kathleen separately) and we know that some characters have been confirmed to be part of the club but arent any longer (the house girls).
I'm not far enough into the Game to know much about these Characters and their Relationship with MC. But as i said earlier, it probably would be irrelevant if they personally would want to let him go or not.
The Club is not for their Private enjoyment only, it caters to depraved but Rich and Powerfull clients, these would be the People they would have to convince. And i can see no plausible way to achieve this, considering what would be on stake for these people if anything would leak to the media, also they would be wide open for any sort of Blackmail.
As far as the endings go I am most interested in the state of the girls in both "end states". Assuming everyone has an ending in both states I wonder how Edwin will either try to get all of them out of the club or how will justify leaving all of them there while trying to be a "good" person (and considering 2 out of the 3 of them can be his "friends"). Another thing that could be interesting are the girls secondary stats (libido, horiness, self confidence) and how (if) they tie into the ending. While having those stats high while staying at the club has obvious outcomes; will max libido rose/max horiness Veronica make any difference in the other ending? (same but opposite with low libido/horiness if you stay at the club).
I dont know how i would feel if the Stats would tie heavily into the concrete endings. Right now it felt more like they where used to open or close certain Events or variations of Events and i would be probably Happy if it would stay this way. You should be able to achieve the Ending you want through your Actions and not because you "grinded for a specific stat". In my eyes it would constrict the Player to much while playing the Game. I would limit it to things like Details or maybe some Special Events, Side Stories and stuff.
 

Hentai7777

Active Member
Jul 22, 2018
735
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Haiya Uncle Roger is disappointment you made my ancienter cry by not giving acess to Satictic in the begining of Prologue.
 

Turret

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Jun 23, 2017
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I didn't read your Post i full to not spoiler me to much but i think i get what you mean.(...)

But that said i think by having sort of a "Good/Neutral/Bad Ending" regardless if he stays or want's to leave the Club makes the decision of leaving or staying much less important/impactfull if not redundant.

I ever saw the decision of wanting to leave or stay as the main branching point for the MC where he has to decide if he gives in to his darker desires and embraces them while staying with the Club, or if his more "Good site" wins out and he decides to resist the Temptations and wants to leave/destroy the Club. From there on onwards, the MS's Story would be much more linear and straight forward to establish a good Dramaturgy and Pacing leading up to the great finale.
An Neutral End in my opinion would be wasted Time to write as i, right now, can't see a way to write it in a way so it wouldn't feel meaningless. If you want a third Ending a "Bad End" would be still difficult to pull of but better in my eyes.
I do not think that the staying or leaving the Club decision is made less impactful by having several ends in both cases. For example, Edwin can be a callous ass and still leaving the Club or a nice, but pragmatic guy knowing where he gets the money to become a doctor. There is alot of variance in both options possible.

I've never seen a game in here having such a heated discussion, love it.
Oh, this is not heated, just a lively and nice game discussion! And it is great! If you want to see heated, just take a look at e.g. the AWAM theards, where they are busy passing the idiot and bootlicker balls around with abandon.
 

Vakkyr

Newbie
Jun 18, 2017
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85
We see on several occasions the owners ultimately have the final say they just all want to keep things nice and in order for various reasons. Kathleen is able to tell a customer to take his hand off her leg, if the customers needed to be convinced she would not be able to do that especially considering she was the only owner in there at the time. Her husband is also high ranking and knows that she is involved with the club which serves as an extra layer of protection. When Chuck tells someone to shut up every customer quickly stops laughing and focuses their attention on him which again they would not have to do if they were the ones "in charge". He also is involved with at least one of the customers previously (involving missiles/rocket technology) so they should trust Chucks judgement about a long time family friend. There arent any good examples of August asserting his position as owner but I speculate this is because he is most focused on running the club as a business (you get august points for treating it as business).

As I have stated there have been house girls that no longer at the club and there is everybody who previously competed in the 3 competitions that knows about the club and is no longer actively involved in it. It seems to be operating more on a you cant expose the club without ruining your own life basis, which given that a driving force of Edwin working at the club is getting his tuition payed he is unlikely to risk exposing it even if he wants himself and others out.
This would be kinda ridiculous and a big logic hole in my opinion. That Kathleen can tell a client off for touching her is on a whole different Level then commanding them to ignore a serious threat to their Security. Kathleen is part of the Owners/Managment whatever you want to call it, she is not an Asset of the Club. She sure can make the life hard for a Single client, but it would be totally unplausible for her or even all the Owners combined to challenge the whole Customer Base.

Unless they would be Blackmailing all their Clients in doing their bidding and still taking part in the Events that gets the Club even more Material. This surely would solve your problem with that but i would consider it very bad writing, full of Plot convinience and unplausible coincidences.

For every Person leaving the Club they would have to make sure this Person has no chance in ratting them out, be it through Blackmailing, Mentally Breaking them beforehand, Destroying their credibility in advance or as a last resort "putting them out". Everything vastly different than this would be kinda ridiculous in terms of Secrecy and Power Balance in the Club.

And for the MC being bound through it's involvement, isn't this exactly what Whistleblowers do all the Time? Even if it damages them in the process, they still open up to the Public/ Authorities if they can't stand it anymore and want out on it. If he does it right he easily can get a crown witness arrangement with Law Enforcement. So, at least if he manages to stay a decent Human, it wouldn't be so unlikely as an option.

I do not think that the staying or leaving the Club decision is made less impactful by having several ends in both cases. For example, Edwin can be a callous ass and still leaving the Club or a nice, but pragmatic guy knowing where he gets the money to become a doctor. There is alot of variance in both options possible.
In my eyes, the decision to leave or stay would be the main Branchingpoint for the MC to decide if he jumps into the Abyss the club stands for, leaving his "decency" behind, or if he resits the debauchery and holds onto his "decency" looking for a way out. That makes it to an Important decision (possibly) affecting all Characters.

If this decision where to be delayed significantly it would make the choice nearly irrelevant because nothing is decided. If you don't have to commit yourself to a path at some point and can change everything until the end all the choices before are meaningless.
 

Hentai7777

Active Member
Jul 22, 2018
735
198
Yes finally i got the Mina sense (oh man i didn't know there was chapter 3 update i was like 5 Haiya on getting Mina but went i reach the part, saw the MC, Mina in the bath sense i was like (Agent 17) No Fucking way it has to be her. PS Damn Mina is fucking Hot went change her whole outfit to be sexy, Rosa as well.
 

Turret

Engaged Member
Jun 23, 2017
3,790
6,538
In my eyes, the decision to leave or stay would be the main Branchingpoint for the MC to decide if he jumps into the Abyss the club stands for, leaving his "decency" behind, or if he resits the debauchery and holds onto his "decency" looking for a way out. That makes it to an Important decision (possibly) affecting all Characters.

If this decision where to be delayed significantly it would make the choice nearly irrelevant because nothing is decided. If you don't have to commit yourself to a path at some point and can change everything until the end all the choices before are meaningless.
While I agree that Edwin´s decision to either stay or leave the Club is a major one, I think you see to stark a divide. It is not only a decision between "debauchery" and "decency", but one of pragmatism and friendship too.
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,208
13,378
This would be kinda ridiculous and a big logic hole in my opinion. That Kathleen can tell a client off for touching her is on a whole different Level then commanding them to ignore a serious threat to their Security. Kathleen is part of the Owners/Managment whatever you want to call it, she is not an Asset of the Club. She sure can make the life hard for a Single client, but it would be totally unplausible for her or even all the Owners combined to challenge the whole Customer Base.

Unless they would be Blackmailing all their Clients in doing their bidding and still taking part in the Events that gets the Club even more Material. This surely would solve your problem with that but i would consider it very bad writing, full of Plot convinience and unplausible coincidences.

For every Person leaving the Club they would have to make sure this Person has no chance in ratting them out, be it through Blackmailing, Mentally Breaking them beforehand, Destroying their credibility in advance or as a last resort "putting them out". Everything vastly different than this would be kinda ridiculous in terms of Secrecy and Power Balance in the Club.
How exactly would the MC be any more dangerous to the patrons after he leaves than he is right now? He already knows what the club is, how it operates, and who's involved. If he decides to turn state's evidence (for whatever reason) the biggest damage is already done. If anything, the MC leaving would lessen the risk since he would no longer be capable of wearing a wire to Club meetings.

Basically, if the patrons trust the Club to vet new hires on its own, I don't see why they wouldn't trust the Club to vet the departure process as well. Based on what we've seen and heard they certainly aren't concerned about Darius, and that guy disappeared in the most suspicious manner possible as far as everyone but Kathleen knows. You can argue this is a mistake on the part of the patrons (stupidity, complacency or overconfidence, take your pick), but they are clearly not sweating the details.
 

Vakkyr

Newbie
Jun 18, 2017
71
85
I think you are also vastly overestimating the Clientele at the club. Of the ones we see they are a Congressman/Senator, a washed up 80's actor (who cant even always pay), an ambassador to New Zealand someone who works in high school admissions/office, someone who works in a college admissions/office/dean (Mihir), a few people involved with PMC stuff, A famous singer, A chief of the LOCAL POLICE. Sure there are a few people with "real" power among them but only 1 of them would be able to do anything if any sort of law enforcement like the CIA or FBI was hinted at being involved. This is also ignoring the fact Kathleen's husband is just as high ranked (he is also an elected official), knows about the club, and met Kathleen after she had her sadistic awakening in college so he is either ok or into sadism.
Maybe i really overrated the whole Club thing, but that would make it to an even bigger problem in my eyes in case of plausability. If the Clients have no say in the Club, and the Owners letting everyone quit that wants out, be it House Girls, Employees or Carnations. Without ensuring they dont Talk about the Club, how in gods name is the Club still a Secret? How believable would it be that not a Single Person tried to make Money in selling the Club and it's Dirty little Secrets to the Media? Or to Blackmail the Clients, or even the Club in an attempt to get some sort of "severance package". Only because of the fear of ruining their, probably, already ruined Life even more?

The Club for sure is no Nationwide operating establishment where the upper 1% of the Country going in and out, but it is not your local Dungeon in a small Suburb either. I always thought abot it as being located in a Bigger City, maybe no State Capital but still Big. So if your Cients are (among others) a Senator/Congressman, an Ambassador, the Local Police Chief and High ranking PMCs, why would they take semself in such a risky Situation, endangering their way of Life without any assurances or safeguards from the Club regarding Secrecy and Safety.

Why would they voluntarily bring themself in such a weak and powerless position? They may be not the President or CEO of a Global Corporation but they would still have a lot to loose if any knowledge of the Club would ever come out. Sure you could say they are all "Old Friends" with the Owners and fully trust them because of that, but that would ba a little bit too convinient in my eyes.
Also i dont see Kathleens Husband being a Highranking Elected Official necessary as an advantage but more as an weakpoint. She would have to make sure that her antics in the Club cant come back to her and endangering her and her Husbands Careers/Lifes.

Regarding the methods for ensuring the Secrecy, yeah these where quickshots i didn't really thought through. Of course they can't send a Mindbroken Women back to her Familly. After all, trying to avoid this was the whole reason to hire the MC. But still, it would be only logic that they would use what happened in the Club as kind of a Safeguard to ensure silentness.

It just would be kinda hilarious to think that Local but still Powerfull People wouldn't give a shit about the risk of getting their Life Destroyed, all the while accepting that the people they (probably?) pay for Access to the Club are their superiors.

That is not consistent with what the creators of the game have posted so that will not be happening. It will not be stay at club = evil corruption sexy path and leave club = pure lovey dovey route. There will be variations in each of the two "end states" otherwise they would be called endings. It also makes the game's story worse that no matter how you treat all the characters it all comes down to a single decision.
"Have low toughness and high stats with all girls? Well you chose to stay at the club so time to dive into the abyss!!!!!1. "
I probably didn't explain it too well. I don't want the decission to be a hard Cut into only Good or only Bad endings. But i think it should be important and foreshadow the future angle the Story takes. But that doesn't have to negate any sort of "Happyer" Endings if the MC stays with the Club. MC could still find a way to "Reform" the Club or improving the Situation for the Woman to a livable standard in other ways. It should jut not be totally open until direct before the end because this in my opinion would make all the prior choices kinda meaningless.

Same goes for the Stats, with an good System Design you should automaticly getting the correspondent Points to match with your behaviour as the MC. But if you lock Endings behind specific Ammounts of Statpoints, it can happen that the player lacks one or two Points to his preferred Ending because he made the "wrong" decision at some Point. That's why i think such requirements should only apply to Side or Special/Bonus Scenes. The Endings of course can and should be as varied as possible.
 
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selberdreher

Member
Dec 29, 2017
448
942
Hm,
That Kathleen can tell a client off for touching her is on a whole different Level then commanding them to ignore a serious threat to their Security.
For every Person leaving the Club they would have to make sure this Person has no chance in ratting them out, (...)
Infact the threat to the security of the clubs' owners is much higher than the threat to the customers.
"Solicitation of prostitution" (that's what the clients are doing) is a misdemeanor for first offenders in most states punishable with fines ranging from 250$ in Kentucky to 6000$ in Alabama and/or community service in Minnesota and/or up to 10 days in prison/jail in Alaska and at the top Massachusetts with a maximum of 2.5 years in prison. The most common fines seem to be around 500$ to 1000$ and up to 1 year in jail or prison.
Any decent lawyer should be able to keep their client out of prison as a first offender.
The most serious impact "solicitation of prostitution" seems to have, is that a bunch of politicians and evangelists had to resign from their office, if we look at the more prominent cases of the last few years.

The owners, on the other hand, could face much more severe punishments. Pandering (that's pimping in common tongue), gambling, bribery, coercion, extortion, dealing in obscene matter and dealing in controlled substances, could set up a RICOH case punishable by up to 20 years in prison (if federal laws are involved).
Luckily if Chuck, August and Kathleen abstain from employing minors as prostitutes, abstain to import women from lets say Mexico or Thailand for prostitution and abstain to transport a prostitute willing to work for them from one US state to another or recruits them outside of their clubs state, the FBI, at least, won't give a damn.
33 US states, however, have implemented laws comparable to RICOH (so-called state RICOHs) to fight organized crime.

As you can see there is a lot more at stake for the owners than the clients, so the clients should trust the owners that they do their utmost to keep security as tight as possible in their own best interest.
I think you are also vastly overestimating the Clientele at the club.
Yes and No
Although the majority of the customers could be considered more C than B-Rank, at least the senator/congressman is A-Tier and definetly Kristoff Jameson, the CEO and owner of a mercenary enterprise. Those two wield real power.
However the most valuable client would be the chief of the LOCAL POLICE. Since Chuck, Auggie and Kat can keep the Federals out of their business, if they aren't dumb, and -spoiler- they are not, it all comes down to state laws they are breaking.
State Police in the USA, commonly known as 'Highway Patrol', are concerned mainly with traffic supervision on the interstates and highways and to a lesser degree involved in protecting the governor, the states parliament, training and qualification of police officers and supporting local polices should the need arise.
This means battling actual crime is left in the hands of the local police departments. Perhaps you can see now, how invaluable it is to pocket the chief of the local police. If they avoid to bribe him directly to -lets say- unlawfully incarcerate an US citizen, again the FBI should be out of the picture. But letting him partake in the club and perhaps even charge him a symbolic fee, so that he turns a blind eye on this business on his own accord, makes a federal bribery case very hard to set up.

It seems to be operating more on a you cant expose the club without ruining your own life basis
I am very much with you on that, i think the three owners have different powers, ranging from soft to lethal, at their disposal to ensure the compliance of former employees.

Lets have a look at Kathleen first.
I think receiving a call from her lawyer suggesting there could be a long, drawn out civil lawsuit over a damaged work uniform can already be enough to beat most former employees into submission. Double that if a non-disclosure agreement was signed at one point, and i would bet a ton they did.
There arent any good examples of August asserting his position as owner
Yes, no examples yet, except you can solve Rosies immediate money problem with his help.
He is intimately aquainted with someone we can only assume is a high-ranking member of the mob or another organized crime family.
There are few things more frightening than when your son is brought home from school by guy in a suit with a black necktie wishing you a good afternoon. Or when another guy in a suit with sunglasses is calling your daughter a beauty and patting her head and complimenting her soft hair. Or a not-so-friendly looking guy sitting in your kitchen when you arrive home and lectures you over the lousy quality of your coffee and suggests you should buy at least some beans of a decent origin. Arabica perhaps, from Guatemala.
When Chuck tells someone to shut up every customer quickly stops laughing and focuses their attention on him which again they would not have to do if they were the ones "in charge". He also is involved with at least one of the customers previously (involving missiles/rocket technology) (...).
Well, finally, this would be Chuck, who is chummy with Mr Kristoffer Jameson, the Merc Leader, whose business is to assess, engage and solve security issues on a large scale, who is chummy with Warren, the Security Chief of the Carnation Club, whose job is to assess, engage and solve security issues on a smaller scale. Given Warrens history with Kristoffers company i am confident he is capable to adress those issues properly.
 
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Vakkyr

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How exactly would the MC be any more dangerous to the patrons after he leaves than he is right now? He already knows what the club is, how it operates, and who's involved. If he decides to turn state's evidence (for whatever reason) the biggest damage is already done. If anything, the MC leaving would lessen the risk since he would no longer be capable of wearing a wire to Club meetings.
Right now the MC is "In" on what happens in the Club, he's a part of it he's "one of them" and under "control" through the Owners. If he would want to leave, because he want's nothing to do with the Club anymore this would change. Especially if his reason to leave would be because he came to resent the Club and how it treats the Women. Also i think of this decision of leaving or staying as far in the Future so until then he easily could have collected evidence to buy himself a new Identity/Life after the Club with the prosecutors.

Basically, if the patrons trust the Club to vet new hires on its own, I don't see why they wouldn't trust the Club to vet the departure process as well. Based on what we've seen and heard they certainly aren't concerned about Darius, and that guy disappeared in the most suspicious manner possible as far as everyone but Kathleen knows. You can argue this is a mistake on the part of the patrons (stupidity, complacency or overconfidence, take your pick), but they are clearly not sweating the details.
The behaviour would make sense if the Club had proven that it takes the Secrecy serious and takes Action when needed to ensure it. Then the Clients could trust the Owners to handle this. Darius indeed is a problem if the clients only know that he "vanished" instead of getting told that he was "taken care of" whatever this may imply to them.
 
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Vakkyr

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Infact the threat to the security of the clubs' owners is much higher than the threat to the customers.
"Solicitation of prostitution" (that's what the clients are doing) is a misdemeanor for first offenders in most states punishable with fines ranging from 250$ in Kentucky to 6000$ in Alabama and/or community service in Minnesota and/or up to 10 days in prison/jail in Alaska and at the top Massachusetts with a maximum of 2.5 years in prison. The most common fines seem to be around 500$ to 1000$ and up to 1 year in jail or prison.
Any decent lawyer should be able to keep their client out of prison as a first offender.
The most serious impact "solicitation of prostitution" seems to have, is that a bunch of politicians and evangelists had to resign from their office, if we look at the more prominent cases of the last few years.

The owners, on the other hand, could face much more severe punishments. Pandering (that's pimping in common tongue), gambling, bribery, coercion, extortion, dealing in obscene matter and dealing in controlled substances, could set up a RICOH case punishable by up to 20 years in prison (if federal laws are involved).
Luckily if Chuck, August and Kathleen abstain from employing minors as prostitutes, abstain to import women from lets say Mexico or Thailand for prostitution and abstain to transport a prostitute willing to work for them from one US state to another or recruits them outside of their clubs state, the FBI, at least, won't give a damn.
33 US states, however, have implemented laws comparable to RICOH (so-called state RICOHs) to fight organized crime.

As you can see there is a lot more at stake for the owners than the clients, so the clients should trust the owners that they do their utmost to keep security as tight as possible in their own best interest.
That's not really the Point i wanted to make here. Of course for the Owners is, from a Law Perspective, much more at Stake as for the Clients. For the Clients it's much more the social outcry and Shitstorm that would Destroy their Carrers/Businesses if it would be known in what perverted and disgusting Events they where willing participants, yes even "Sponsors" of it. As for the Owners, this would be even more a reason for them to not letting the MC easily go, not without ensuring his silenceness.
 

Vakkyr

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Jun 18, 2017
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None of the customers have mentioned Darius the owners never told them which is another point towards the idea that the owners are the ones who wield the power
You could interpret it this way. Or you could say the Owners fear the reaction of their clients and because of this fear they trying to hide it.

Warren mentions that the people at the club do not mind cameras being in every room because they are "above getting in trouble for doing something they shouldn't" if they were the ones with power there would either not be cameras or warren would have said "they wanted them in there for their own safety".
Same here, you can interpret it your way, or see it as a sign of Power. They feel untouchable, too Big to fail and that every acusation would drip off on them. And/Or they simply trust the Owners in taking care of any emerging problems because they know there a Security measures in place.

I will really have to make Time next week to continue my Playthrough, to make my own Picture.
 
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