VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Gab1]

(did we get to see elias bed bunny?)

he is obviously presented as a fake try-hard, making a full role play just for a reporter and schwadrones on forever about things he doesnt really care about just for image - no doubt.

but that i was more towards their relationship actions.

iirc they both cheat, almost having an agreement on it. felicia married him for his money as a golddigger, elias married her for having a trophy wife as a guy who cares about a fake image. they both treat each other respectless (before felicia 10-ups it with the club).

so far just a shitty couple with shitty choices for a shitty marriage. then elias refused to pay 100.000 (?) bucks for her sudden (?) idea to support her art school. then she goes ballistic etc. etc.

i think people who dislike elias mostly for his reluctance to pay for her art school look at their relationship from the wrong angle. its not a loving marriage with mutual supporting each other. its a cold calculated business deal from both of them. and few like to gift 100.000 to a business partner just for no reason. of course it would have been nice from him, but her acting all upset is a bit too much imo. she can lead a luxurious life for the single fact elias married her for her looks and social skills. he is not her friend and she is not his. she should know that as a golddigger.

maybe she felt betrayed because she expected such a payment of 100.000 to be part of the marriage deal? but to me it felt more like she expected him to do it like a loving husband supports his loving wife. a bit strange

and obviously you get tired quick of fucking a cold blooded golddigger treating you like a wallet

to me they both just seem like absolute fools, with him being ungenerous, and her murdering his image with his peers

unless i miss something, i'm not understanding the disliking of elias and the liking of felicia

except tits of course

You are not wrong bro, you are not wrong but you are still in the surface.

Why is Felicia angry with Elias?? Because Felicia felt that she had grasp her ideal when she married Elias, by her lone self she was able to marry one of the most important bastards in the country, right before the art school situation Felicia felt that she has become a winner at life, yeah it was a shitty marriage and they both are pieces of shit, but in itself that make them equals, and Felicia knew that, but when the art school happens she couldnt protect it.
all that effort, all that sex that she didnt always wanted, all that hate she got by her peers for being a gold digger, all that humiliation just because she was born in a town, every little thing that she had to face to obtain the life she wanted and she couldnt protect the only thing she has really wanted to protect, it was imposible that, that wouldnt eat her inside, why did she suffer so much and work so much if she is still powerless at the end of the day? And worst, Elias can be a pathetic idiot but he knew too how Felicia felt and he didnt care, even after marry her, he see her not as a disgusting slut, no as a shitty person, he look her as a subhuman, something waaaaaaay below him. And i cant forgive that.

In a way Felicia respected Elias, before that situation she probably did her best to protect his image, but after that, the humiliation was so big that she doesnt care anymore, because we have see how grateful Felicia is with people who help her.

What a nice character, complex and simple at the same time, kudos to the guys who though her.

Spoiler: Felicia

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[Turret]

and obviously you get tired quick of fucking a cold blooded golddigger treating you like a wallet

Hi again! Always nice to the arguments of other members!
Well, that is not a thing with Felicia! She is well-established by the game as a fullblown hedonist (which is one reason she sucks at taking and dishing out punishment in the punishment game) and loose cannon in bed, who is also "ready" under most adverse conditions. Having fun in bed with Felicia is most definitely not a problem!

its a cold calculated business deal from both of them. and few like to gift 100.000 to a business partner just for no reason

Yes, but it is also clearly hinted at in game, that even as a pure business decision Elias giving Feli the needed money would have been a great deal! Elias has enough money to not feel much of the drain at all and more, imageobsessed as he is, it would have brought him lots of good PR.

(did we get to see elias bed bunny?)

Yes, we can see her shortly once during the photo shot/interview.

Going by your argumentation, I think you are not on the Felicia path, which would show you a great deal about why Felicia is one of the most liked characters in the game, whereas Elias is considered an idiot by practically even the in-game characters.
And while your arguments are not wrong as such, you overlook some important points, which is why I think you did not play the Feli path.
Felicia is not cold-hearted as you think, she might be blase about a couple things and her social competence is not the best, something she is aware of, but she has feelings and convictions. In addition, look at the punishment game variants, Felicia is the one who held back to most of all three! And there are several scenes in the game where we can see how grateful and nice Felicia is to persons who like and/or help her.

I stand by my theory I mentioned already quite a time ago, that a win by Felicia would be the best outcome of the competition. If we have good relations with Feli and ask, she surely would use her new influence to help Rosi get rid of the loan sharks. In the case of Veronica I am not sure she would help out, maybe, but not without discussion.

 

[se20299]

First off I wanna commend the creators of the game. It's extremely well written, and all the characters are interesting, none of them feel like filler for a specific taste or whatever.
I also find it hilarious that a game made in a cartoonish anime engine looks 10x more realistic than most games made in Blender, Daz, Unity and the like. Seriously, the characters look extremely detailed. I'm gonna rant about some characters I like.

Edwin's a very interesting character. The whole game focuses on Edwin slowly being corrupted by the club, specifically his sadistic "mentor" Kat. For all the Ian bashing that goes on here, I suspect that Edwin is far more damaged and fucked up than Ian. He was already a nasty kid raised by a single mom who couldn't possibly control him, but seeing clips of his mother getting gangbanged and humilliated by strangers gave him some strange mother complex. No normal person sits around naked watching porn of his own mother for "motivation". There's a lot of bad juju in Edwins head that the game is yet to explore, and I'm here for it. I certainly think that Edwin has the potential to be just as monstruous as people like Chuck and Kat. His relationahip with Rosalind is also pretty interesting.

Rosalind is clearly meant to mirror Edwins own mother and stir up his mommy issues, putting him in the position of the same men that sexually exploited his own mother. It's a very interesting dynamic. As for Rose herself, she's far more vicious and cutthroat than she looks. She's a mama bear that's been dealt a bad hand, and I think poor Edwin vastly underestimates how underhanded Rose can be, both due to her doe eyed look and his own mother complex. Out of the 3 carnations, she's in the most imminent danger if she loses, so her only option is to win if she wants to keep her daughter safe. I think we'll see Rose's true face more and more as the game progresses.

As for Vicky herself, I think she's by far the most interesting character in the game. All we know about her is Edwin's own recollection of their past, and a handful of disjointed porn clips. If this was a more vanilla game, It'd be probably left at that, but I suspect there's far more to Victoria than meets the eye. We know she regularly did porn after her husband died for at least a few years due to the timestamps provided for us in the few clips we get to see. She serves as the proverbial angel on Edwin's shoulder, as opposed to Kat's devil. She serves as a constant reminder that the Carnations are humans too. Since we know so little about Vicky, there are a lot of interesting theories floatig around.

I feel like there's a twist down the road that's going to test Edwin's bond with Vicky somehow, and either push him further into Kat's clutches, or help him eventually overcome his demons. My personal theory is that Vicky isn't nearly as innocent as Edwin and Ian believe her to be. She most likely stayed in porn way longer than neccesary because she enjoyed getting filmed doing gangbangs, and other sexual acts. Every character in this game is a freak or a closet freak, and it'd be dissapointing if the author didn't do anything interesting with Vicky after such an interesting setup.

I also really like Hana. Despite her flashy looks and tatoos, she mostly stands out by being a relatively normal, level headed girl surrounded by degenerates and freaks. I feel like she's the most positive influence on Edwin in the whole game, and her comments and reaction to the games are a reminder of how fucked up the club is. Being in a relationship with her might give Edwin the perspective he needs to leave the club behind, and that free tuition isn't worth becoming a monster. Of course, provided you don't cheat on her.

 

[JasonsGranpa]

You are not wrong bro, you are not wrong but you are still in the surface.

Why is Felicia angry with Elias?? Because Felicia felt that she had grasp her ideal when she married Elias, by her lone self she was able to marry one of the most important bastards in the country, right before the art school situation Felicia felt that she has become a winner at life, yeah it was a shitty marriage and they both are pieces of shit, but in itself that make them equals, and Felicia knew that, but when the art school happens she couldnt protect it.
all that effort, all that sex that she didnt always wanted, all that hate she got by her peers for being a gold digger, all that humiliation just because she was born in a town, every little thing that she had to face to obtain the life she wanted and she couldnt protect the only thing she has really wanted to protect, it was imposible that, that wouldnt eat her inside, why did she suffer so much and work so much if she is still powerless at the end of the day? And worst, Elias can be a pathetic idiot but he knew too how Felicia felt and he didnt care, even after marry her, he see her not as a disgusting slut, no as a shitty person, he look her as a subhuman, something waaaaaaay below him. And i cant forgive that.

In a way Felicia respected Elias, before that situation she probably did her best to protect his image, but after that, the humiliation was so big that she doesnt care anymore, because we have see how grateful Felicia is with people who help her.

What a nice character, complex and simple at the same time, kudos to the guys who though her.

Spoiler: Felicia

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Hi again! Always nice to the arguments of other members!
Well, that is not a thing with Felicia! She is well-established by the game as a fullblown hedonist (which is one reason she sucks at taking and dishing out punishment in the punishment game) and loose cannon in bed, who is also "ready" under most adverse conditions. Having fun in bed with Felicia is most definitely not a problem!

Yes, but it is also clearly hinted at in game, that even as a pure business decision Elias giving Feli the needed money would have been a great deal! Elias has enough money to not feel much of the drain at all and more, imageobsessed as he is, it would have brought him lots of good PR.

Yes, we can see her shortly once during the photo shot/interview.

Going by your argumentation, I think you are not on the Felicia path, which would show you a great deal about why Felicia is one of the most liked characters in the game, whereas Elias is considered an idiot by practically even the in-game characters.
And while your arguments are not wrong as such, you overlook some important points, which is why I think you did not play the Feli path.
Felicia is not cold-hearted as you think, she might be blase about a couple things and her social competence is not the best, something she is aware of, but she has feelings and convictions. In addition, look at the punishment game variants, Felicia is the one who held back to most of all three! And there are several scenes in the game where we can see how grateful and nice Felicia is to persons who like and/or help her.

I stand by my theory I mentioned already quite a time ago, that a win by Felicia would be the best outcome of the competition. If we have good relations with Feli and ask, she surely would use her new influence to help Rosi get rid of the loan sharks. In the case of Veronica I am not sure she would help out, maybe, but not without discussion.

very nice discussion. very pleasant without hate

i played felis path but its been a good while.

if i remember correctly she just wanted to leave her hometown because she felt it was a dead end and boring. she did that by prostituting herself first to the guy taking her out of town and then to a guy paying her college fees.

now i can of course understand the wish to make it big, but its not like a life in a small town is a brutal sentence for life. it might be more limiting. but she chose to prostitute herself to escape a town she felt she was too good for (iirc).
of course every human hopes to find a good life and possibly also a loving spouse. but tbh the advantages you get by prostituting yourself will cost you on other ends, and this is what feli is experiencing now. she maybe wished that elias married her like another millionaire marries a beautiful good girl, but he didnt. he likely knew or found out at some point what he got. its no wonder he doesnt treat her like a sweet girl who married him. he married a prostitute-turned-golddigger. i cant remember anymore, but if he really refused such a good opportunity to better his image by helping feli, he must have had a good reason. maybe he only found out about her past after marriage? this would have surely turned him hard hearted. it almost seems like he specifically didnt give her the money to hurt her. maybe he felt betrayed by her not disclosing her former life? i could understand that. still, she drives a porsche, enjoys luxury in many aspects - so its understandable she is sad about her rejected wish, but its complaining in a still good situation.

in the end it was her choice to prostitute herself for more material wealth. but her expectation to be treated like a loved wife of a rich guy is on herself. she got there as a prostitute-turned-golddigger and thats likely why shes treated like one. its on her own. that her humiliating plan to become genuinly wealthy didnt work out in the end is her own risk. in my opinion she cant blame elias for that. it was a rsky endeavor, and it paid off somewhat and carries negative consequences in other areas.


regarding sex with feli:

she might be a very capable woman in bed and a hedonist, but that doesnt mean she will give all this to elias. usually woman imo only make an effort in bed if they really want to, and elias was probably neither an attractive man for her, nor did she feel compelled to longer make an effort to please him after marriage.

of course a lot of this is speculation about fictional characters, but it is a fitting explanation i think

i think she treats edwin and mina differently because she tries to re-live a normal life she exchanged for material wealth when young. so we could expect that she treats edwin+mina different than her golddigging business target - elias.

of course she wants to be happy, its understandable, and everyone enjoys being treated kindly, but can she really blame elias?

he basically just did what she did: used her for his own means.

 

[Takkatakka]

Since we know so little about Vicky, there are a lot of interesting theories floatig around.

I still think she has an affair with Ian.

 

[se20299]

I still think she has an affair with Ian.

That might be an interesting twist, but I doubt that's what's going on. Victoria is the one woman that Ian sees as a human being, and due to his Madonna/whore complex, the only woman he can't see sexually. Of course, if poor Ian finds out that his pure, precious Vicky had more DNA on her than a sperm bank, that could change very quickly. Since the only other people that know about Vicky's career are Hana and Kathleen, I doubt Ian's going to find out unless Kat's planning something diabolical .

Speaking of Kat, I find it odd about how quickly she found out about Vicky's career, considering how apparently Victoria never gained "mainstream" pornstar popularity, and how she was able to return to a low key, normal life after she was done with porn. Now either Kat did an extremely through background check on Edwin, which I find odd considering he's just a helping hand and how Chuck explicitly told her not to fuck with Edwin's head.

The more interesting possibility is that Edwin and Vicky's circles overlap far more than either of them suspect. I think August and "Uncle" Chuck are very intimately acquainted with Vicky than poor Edwin suspects. Considering her aloof reaction to Edwin mentioning Chuck and how she apparently looked "as if she wanted to say more", and her odd reaction to Edwin asking about August, I suspect that she knew both of them during her career. And considering Chuck's apparent "proclivities", she possibly had some bad experiences with him and is extremely wary of him now. Kathleen possibly found out about Vicky's past from August, and decided to fuck around with Edwin boy's head, the sociopathic bitch that she is. What she didn't expect is that Edwin already knew. Turns out Kathleen was looking for copper and struck gold. There's no way she can resist fucking with Edwin now, despite Chuck's warnings.

Vicky is already suspicious about Edwin's activities, and she may confront him about his mysterious "job" sooner or later, and then all hell will break loose. But that's just my opinion.

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

the only woman he can't see sexually

Didn't he get caught recoloring her dirty underwear when they were younger? Instead I get the impression that Ian does not want to be seen as someone who views her sexually

Of course, if poor Ian finds out that his pure, precious Vicky had more DNA on her than a sperm bank, that could change very quickly

This could be constructive or destructive for his character, interesting either way. Edwin must be running out of videos.

 

[Gab1]

Thing has a nice turn, i still want to speak about felicia but first Victoria

Spoiler: Victoria

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Now about Felicia.

Spoiler: Felicia

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[Deleted member 5730975]

I still think she has an affair with Ian.

Me too but it is mostly just copium because I want to see Victoria get fucked hard. And not just in 2 second porn clips from 10 years ago. I doubt I will get what I want though.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

I still think she has an affair with Ian.

She definitely hasnt, otherwise her dialogue during potential 3some woulda been much different.

 

[Deleted member 5730975]

She definitely hasnt, otherwise her dialogue during potential 3some woulda been much different.

Sorry what are you talking about? Potential threesome with Victoria? When does that happen?

 

[JasonsGranpa]

She definitely hasnt, otherwise her dialogue during potential 3some woulda been much different.

Sorry what are you talking about? Potential threesome with Victoria? When does that happen?

Victoria, Veronica, Felicia. It all becomes one jumbled mess in the mind.

 

[rippertipper]

Victoria, Veronica, Felicia. It all becomes one jumbled mess in the mind.

What's in a name? That which we call a carnation, by any other name, would smell as sweet.

 

[JasonsGranpa]

it is more probably that he didnt help her because this was the first time that he saw her show initiative, and he didnt like that.

i am not making Felicia a victim but this was a little too much even by this twisted relationship they had.

I think this is more likely than my guess.

Regarding the lower part: Since both Elias and Felicia were disgusting spouses to each other from the beginning, but people feel strongly about Elias since he topped it with his malicious denial of supporting the art school - this logic would then dictate to hate Felicia even more since she turned it up to 11 with humiliating her husband to the core in front of all his powerful peers.

 

[Bill Temple]

What's in a name? That which we call a carnation, by any other name, would smell as sweet.

*except after a competition, when they stink sex, sweat, and sometimes copious amounts of fresh-squeezed ball juice

Spoiler: a sweet-smelling Rose?

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[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Thing has a nice turn, i still want to speak about felicia but first Victoria

Spoiler: Victoria

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Now about Felicia.

Spoiler: Felicia

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What are you talking about? The first time Ian sees felicia naked is after the dare party post dance club get together. (if you picked those choices). That's before anything else in the club story, before her husband is even introduced, etcetcetc. Again, I've no idea what you're talking about unless this is from the perspective of someone who hasn't explored those paths, or if I'm misunderstanding you through some translation error......

 

[Joshy92]

I don't really like what happens to the girls in the club but I really like how we have the option for the mc to be nice to the girls
and try and help them.
I don't think I would play this if the mc was just another arsehole without any choices for the player.
I like to treat girls with love and compassion whenever I get the choice in visual novels.

 

[BrockLanders]

*except after a competition, when they stink sex, sweat, and sometimes copious amounts of fresh-squeezed ball juice

Spoiler: a sweet-smelling Rose?

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Smells like bleach.

 

[Takkatakka]

She definitely hasnt, otherwise her dialogue during potential 3some woulda been much different.

Pretty sure you're confusing Rosalind and Victoria. Rosalind definitely got fucked by Ian before you even meet her.

But with Victoria there are just so many strange coincidences when she and Ian just happen to show up together or he shows up at her house. She also has no problem just wearing a towel in front of him. Ian obviously has no problem fucking older women. Even Ian getting the MC the job could be part of it. Victoria not wanting to get into a new relationship now that the MC is out of the house. Ian not being to broken up about Mina, maybe because he is in another relationship with someone he actually loves? Etc. etc.

All of this is very much conjecture and TD most likely will be somewhere between laughing and shacking his head about this, but sometimes it can be fun to theorize.

 

[Nulldev]

What's in a name? That which we call a carnation, by any other name, would smell as sweet.

"What is a maid? Ice and desire."