VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[MoarDakka123]

Oh bloody hell. Yes, I was serious. But no, I didn't see that...


Oh, of course I wasn't intending this as a pressure. More a case of curiosity if they had suggested a timeline or anything of the sort! Cheers for filling me in.

No worries man, honest mistake. I've been in your shoes, and it's weirdly embarrassing but can definitely happen.

 

[ename144]

I can definitely see you turning the tables on her, but I guess we would need to define what that even means.
To me, The Promises that you get to make (Help Rosalind win, help with Veronica's struggles, help Felicia ___ ) seem like the way you turn the tables on Kathleen by undermining the spirit of the entire Carnation, but I could see that not qualifying for others... Though I guess I don't even know Kathleen's attitude on that particular matter. Chuck at least seems to care about the "honor" or "code" of how they do things, maybe Hana's dad too, but if it's revealed that Kathleen's just playing along it wouldn't exactly surprise me.

I doubt we'll see Kathleen redeemed as ename144 defined it on the previous page, but I could see a "when did I fall so low?" -kind of moment of epiphany, or something along those lines. Kathleen is a despicable human being, no doubt, but I don't think she's completely rotten to the core; which is probably the largest reason I want to hear her thoughts on all of this from a philosophical perspective. Her worldview is clearly completely different from mine, and her stories about her sister and comment on "kindness being beaten out of you" coupled with her few moments of emotional connection/vulnerability (Assuming her little lapse at the end of the latest episode wasn't just deception/showmanship) make me really interested in hearing what she has to say about all of this stuff. In contrast, Chuck sounded very hand-wavey and nonchalant (which isn't very interesting), while August just strikes me as someone who has seen the worst society has to offer and is okay with it.

I could be wrong , but I don't think Kathleen cares about competitive spirit or even who wins the competition as long as she gets her show. She all but states that she will rig the results to ensure all three Carnations are still in the running for the final week; that's why the rules are made as we go along, rather than being posted in advance. She even tells the MC to play along with any attempts to bribe him because it will keep the girl motivated. So even if the MC rigged the contest, I doubt that would count as turning the tables on her. Unless it short circuits the competition, of course. That would definitely count... assuming the MC manages to survive her wrath. (That said, it seems unlikely from a game design perspective.)

Similarly, I don't think Kathleen would be surprised to come face to face with her actions. She's fairly direct when giving orders or advice to the MC (take advantage of an attempted bribe, remind Veronica the gym is literally her home if she tries to back out, etc.). She's aware that her partners would disapprove of her deal with Abel but goes ahead with it anyway. To me, Kathleen seems quite cognizant of what she does and just doesn't care about the ethical implications. If she is going to have some sort of redemption arc, I don't think it will involve holding a mirror to her soul. I think it will be about proving her axiom (that all men can be controlled by their basest instincts) wrong.

I actually think Chuck is the one who would have trouble truly seeing his soul in a mirror. Kathleen describes him as a child but in my view that's only half true. He has the ignorance and simplicity of a child, but it's a result of willful self-deception rather than inexperience. As he says, he's always been a pervert and through the club he's found a way to indulge that side of himself. But it's much easier to indulge when it's all fun and games, so he ignores the ugly harm the club does to grease its wheels. He has compartmentalized all of that. Hence why leaves the day-to-day operations to the others and tends to speak in metaphors when he does get involved ("a little fire I need to put out," "talk her down from the ledge," "fighting trim" and the like). If he were forced to address all these consequences head on he'd probably start to crack.

For August, I think you're basically right. He'll use whatever tool (fair or foul) is at hand to solve a problem because he's just looking out for himself. Or at least he was before Hana entered the picture; he seems to be unusually focused on her. Perhaps he is getting old enough to yearn for a personal legacy and decided Hana fits the bill? If so, it will be interesting to see if he could actually care about her as a person rather than just a symbol.

Assuming any of my interpretations are true, of course.

EDIT: Actually, something minor that ename144 said at some point that I couldn't be bothered to respond to at the time; I don't think Kathleen herself is a mystery as such, I should have properly emphasized that it's the why of it that I'm interested in.

On that I certainly agree. I'm very curious to know how she became the woman she is (or at least comports herself to be in the club), and what her end goals are.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

I feel comfortable on commenting on this since it's just about the generalized structure of the game and not story related spoilers, but I'll put it in a spoiler anyway in case you want that curiosity sated by playing the update.

Spoiler: Explanation on how routes will work in this game.

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I'm so glad it doesn't seem like you are going all soft or changing anything. This vn stands out on a good balance of darkness and kink that is unique.

This vn has inspired a lot of thinking on my behalf and I can not wait to see where it takes my mind next. Not to mention all the hot and perverse acts that will be shown.

Also I'm still glad to know the mom ain't a LI cause there is something perversely erotic about the old clips of hers that would cheapen the story big time if the mc banged her imo

 

[MoarDakka123]

I could be wrong , but I don't think Kathleen cares about competitive spirit or even who wins the competition as long as she gets her show. She all but states that she will rig the results to ensure all three Carnations are still in the running for the final week; that's why the rules are made as we go along, rather than being posted in advance. She even tells the MC to play along with any attempts to bribe him because it will keep the girl motivated. So even if the MC rigged the contest, I doubt that would count as turning the tables on her. Unless it short circuits the competition, of course. That would definitely count... assuming the MC manages to survive her wrath. (That said, it seems unlikely from a game design perspective.)

Similarly, I don't think Kathleen would be surprised to come face to face with her actions. She's fairly direct when giving orders or advice to the MC (take advantage of an attempted bribe, remind Veronica the gym is literally her home if she tries to back out, etc.). She's aware that her partners would disapprove of her deal with Abel but goes ahead with it anyway. To me, Kathleen seems quite cognizant of what she does and just doesn't care about the ethical implications. If she is going to have some sort of redemption arc, I don't think it will involve holding a mirror to her soul. I think it will be about proving her axiom (that all men can be controlled by their basest instincts) wrong.

I actually think Chuck is the one who would have trouble truly seeing his soul in a mirror. Kathleen describes him as a child but in my view that's only half true. He has the ignorance and simplicity of a child, but it's a result of willful self-deception rather than inexperience. As he says, he's always been a pervert and through the club he's found a way to indulge that side of himself. But it's much easier to indulge when it's all fun and games, so he ignores the ugly harm the club does to grease its wheels. He has compartmentalized all of that. Hence why leaves the day-to-day operations to the others and tends to speak in metaphors when he does get involved ("a little fire I need to put out," "talk her down from the ledge," "fighting trim" and the like). If he were forced to address all these consequences head on he'd probably start to crack.

For August, I think you're basically right. He'll use whatever tool (fair or foul) is at hand to solve a problem because he's just looking out for himself. Or at least he was before Hana entered the picture; he seems to be unusually focused on her. Perhaps he is getting old enough to yearn for a personal legacy and decided Hana fits the bill? If so, it will be interesting to see if he could actually care about her as a person rather than just a symbol.

Assuming any of my interpretations are true, of course.


On that I certainly agree. I'm very curious to know how she became the woman she is (or at least comports herself to be in the club), and what her end goals are.

All o' that.

 

[tlarsen]

I still wonder if this game will have a Bad Good or bittersweet ending i mean game doesn't have a harem tag so getting with all the girls in the end seem unlikely but it does not have an Ntr tag either so i guess the ending can't be that sad
tho those tags could be added later of course so who knows

 

[Spfjolietjake]

I still wonder if this game will have a Bad Good or bittersweet ending i mean game doesn't have a harem tag so getting with all the girls in the end seem unlikely but it does not have an Ntr tag either so i guess the ending can't be that sad
tho those tags could be added later of course so who knows

I think a pig will fly before this has harem content. It totally wouldn't fit the story imo

 

[Avaron1974]

I still wonder if this game will have a Bad Good or bittersweet ending i mean game doesn't have a harem tag so getting with all the girls in the end seem unlikely but it does not have an Ntr tag either so i guess the ending can't be that sad
tho those tags could be added later of course so who knows

Zero chance of getting a harem, does not fit the story at all.

Depending on choice of girl will probably be between good and bittersweet.

Some people are bound to go for the 3 girls up as carnations and they are all going to get gangfucked so that's a bittersweet moment for them although they will have romantic endings according to the dev so all's well that ends well.

One of the other girls will come at the expense of the MC's long term best friend. While some people may not like the friend they have looked out for each other for years so taking Mina will cause some problems there.

Hana is the only one not tied to anyone but her family issues and the fact some of the club patrons are trying to fuck her will come into it quite a lot.

As for NTR, it's been well established that the girls are going to fuck other people, it's part of the games core story. Not to mention one of them is married and has regular sex on the side.

These aren't sweet innocent virgins and this isn't an "only the MC will get laid" game. It doesn't have that tag because it doesn't fit. The premise of the game is set so everybody is aware what is going to happen.

Anybody crying NTR after the fact is an idiot and not worth listening to.

 

[ninetofive]

Zero chance of getting a harem, does not fit the story at all.

Depending on choice of girl will probably be between good and bittersweet.

Some people are bound to go for the 3 girls up as carnations and they are all going to get gangfucked so that's a bittersweet moment for them although they will have romantic endings according to the dev so all's well that ends well.

One of the other girls will come at the expense of the MC's long term best friend. While some people may not like the friend they have looked out for each other for years so taking Mina will cause some problems there.

Hana is the only one not tied to anyone but her family issues and the fact some of the club patrons are trying to fuck her will come into it quite a lot.

As for NTR, it's been well established that the girls are going to fuck other people, it's part of the games core story. Not to mention one of them is married and has regular sex on the side.

These aren't sweet innocent virgins and this isn't an "only the MC will get laid" game. It doesn't have that tag because it doesn't fit. The premise of the game is set so everybody is aware what is going to happen.

Anybody crying NTR after the fact is an idiot and not worth listening to.

I thought it was hinted at quite strongly before the first exhibition that the gangfucking stuff probably won't be a thing.

MC: I figured the clubs patrons would be participating...
Kathleen: What? No. They're here to watch for the most part. They'll occasionally get the chance to have fun, but they do have money on the outcome. It'd be improper to directly involve them too much.

Now will the carnations be getting the D from other guys? Probably at least from Killian yeah. But I also suspect that like exhibition one there will be routes you can choose where at least one girl doesn't get fucked by anyone else.

 

[Avaron1974]

I thought it was hinted at quite strongly before the first exhibition that the gangfucking stuff probably won't be a thing.

MC: I figured the clubs patrons would be participating...
Kathleen: What? No. They're here to watch for the most part. They'll occasionally get the chance to have fun, but they do have money on the outcome. It'd be improper to directly involve them too much.

Now will the carnations be getting the D from other guys? Probably at least from Killian yeah. But I also suspect that like exhibition one there will be routes you can choose where at least one girl doesn't get fucked by anyone else.

The gangfuck is very deff going to be a thing but the guys running things aren't part of it.

She even said, more than once, that's the last part of the contest.

The guys in charge have money on the outcome.

MC will only be able to hep in small ways. If he tries to do too much it would be obvious and either he'll be fired or the girl will lose or more likely both.

He certainly won;t be able to stop anyone being involved in the final which is the gangfuck.

 

[ninetofive]

The gangfuck is very deff going to be a thing but the guys running things aren't part of it.

She even said, more than once, that's the last part of the contest.

The guys in charge have money on the outcome.

MC will only be able to hep in small ways. If he tries to do too much it would be obvious and either he'll be fired or the girl will lose or more likely both.

He certainly won;t be able to stop anyone being involved in the final which is the gangfuck.

Do you remember where that is said? I don't remember it at all but there is a hell of a lot of dialogue in the game so I def coulda missed it.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

Do you remember where that is said? I don't remember it at all but there is a hell of a lot of dialogue in the game so I def coulda missed it.

Seems like it was discussed here. But I've drank a lot since then. I would bet a dime it was somewhere in this thread.

 

[TD1900]

Now will the carnations be getting the D from other guys? Probably at least from Killian yeah. But I also suspect that like exhibition one there will be routes you can choose where at least one girl doesn't get fucked by anyone else.

It is difficult to weigh in without revealing anything, but I will say the above is true.

I'll also point out that the weekly themes are different year-to-year and that the tape Edwin watched was for the "public use" week. This isn't ruling out patron involvement in the coming weeks (I mean you already got a taste of it in game three of week 1), but it might not be as straight forward as you're picturing with everyone forming an orderly line to get a turn.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

It is difficult to weigh in without revealing anything, but I will say the above is true.

I'll also point out that the weekly themes are different year-to-year and that the tape Edwin watched was for the "public use" week. This isn't ruling out patron involvement in the coming weeks (I mean you already got a taste of it in game three of week 1), but it might not be as straight forward as your picturing with everyone forming an orderly line to get a turn.

So a curved line or lines?

Sorry couldn't help it

So looking forward to more of this vn. And glad you are part of this community

 

[dusk serenade]

Just dropping by to say that this game is great and deserves every last drop of support it can get.

 

[Serghick]

Yeap, totally agree with the commenter above.

 

[sunaboz]

Just dropping by to say that this game is great and deserves every last drop of support it can get.

Yeap, totally agree with the commenter above.

If you want to show appreciation of their work write a positive review please (or better yet - become a patron). It's currently 13th game when it comes to weighted rating.

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

Just dropping by to say that this game is great and deserves every last drop of support it can get.

Can also confirm that this game is amazing.

 

[dusk serenade]

If you want to show appreciation of their work write a positive review please (or better yet - become a patron). It's currently 13th game when it comes to weighted rating.

Hey thanks for reminding me, I'm new to the site and I don't know how everything works yet. I just left my review, hope some more people discover this ^^

 

[AwsHen]

Me acting patiently on the outside for the update


Me actually on the inside

 

[CAznable]

Just checking up on some threads, i'll say it again for the record. This game is beyond fantastic! If you have not given it a shot for some reason, do so ASAP. And if you do love what you play, but can't become a patron (absolutely understandable with how the world is now) Consider leaving a review so more people will see this masterpiece of an AVN. Also consider joining the discord if that's your thing, just a nice place to talk about the game or any other games with fellow fans. Enjoy.

P.S. these are 2 of the best Devs I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with, always welcoming and insightful to the project.