DirtyMario

Jumping bitches since '85
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Jul 19, 2017
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But again, I'd ask, are you normally a fan of milfs? I understand the distinction you're making, for me it's the former, flat out.
From a superficial standpoint this question is kind of redundant since there is pretty much no possibility to create a milf in HS beyond giving her grey hair and stating her age in the bio.
While I am indeed a fan of milfs, I do have a bit of a problem with torture so I'm not a fan of Kat in particular.
 
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Ungawa

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Apr 16, 2017
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It's just interesting to hear others' perspectives; I would still venture enjoying her character requires some base attractive. For me, I don't care what makes her tick. I don't care that she's a psycho. I don't care that she has darker impulses contrasting with empathy. Evertime I see her, I want to leave the room asap. To me she's a hag trying to relive her more exciting years by more and more extreme sadism. If there was a prompt to run the company as a pair with kathleen or kick her out and never see her in the game again, my reaction time would be in milliseconds.

But that's just me, and I'm glad others find her scenes enjoyable! :)
But that's just it. It's not the *scenes*. It's the *character*.

She is a great character for giving us a lot with her unique outlook. A woman in a cathouse that is part of high society and capable of the worst villainy. In a VN about duality, she takes the cake. I understand that some run from that, but it's not even about embracing her. It's about what she brings to the table and how she can show you even more about each of the Carnations she interacts with. Makes it that much more when you connect with each girl.

And yeah, I'm playing good Edwin for the most part.

Just kind of ironic that I just understood that she really IS a bad mommy though. She's teaching you the dark side while your mother taught you better.

Huh... Just understood the duality...
 

Ottoeight

Forum Fanatic
Mar 13, 2021
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Just kind of ironic that I just understood that she really IS a bad mommy though. She's teaching you the dark side while your mother taught you better.
She's teaching him the dark side, AND she's purpotedly harming and damaging him.

Just think about this:

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Ungawa

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Apr 16, 2017
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Yeah... It slowly dawned on me...

She's also using him while having him give in. This sort of villainy really feeds on itself...
 
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Daken9

Active Member
Apr 28, 2017
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I must join the chorus in disagreeing. Kathleen's appeal is entirely in her characterization: she's a villain with style, menace, AND a strong thematic link to the hero. That's a combination that's worth it's weight in gold, narratively speaking. There are plenty of antagonists I flat out hate in AVNs (see Cassandra in Artemis for an easy example); Kathleen's an antagonist I love to hate.

It's a small but crucial difference!
Lowkey, i think Kathleen is far more desperate and simpleminded than Rosalind. Obviously she is an actual human being and not some sadistic psychopath, but when i look at the subtle differences between low/high affection and deal/no-deal i think it could be argued that as far as mindgames go she's lightyears ahead. Afterall there's a reason why she won't try as hard to win over an Edwin who didn't agree to her deal (despite arguably being a better person, just of less use to her), while 3 weeks in Kath is stll trying hard as ever to win over some random kid who may or may not want nothing to do with her.

Although on the flip side, i guess if Kath's endgoal is just to make things as miserable as possible for as many people as possible, then her approach makes a degree of sense. Still think she'd accomplish more if she were half as subtle as Rose, but even Palpatine crossed over to chaotic evil in his old age so who knows.
 
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helo138

Newbie
Nov 4, 2018
21
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Play a nice guy. Just be as nice as possible to all the other girls. It's basically orgasm denial for Kathleen. Call it corruption denial.
She wants to corrupt MC into venting his sadistic urges on the girls and becoming as big a monster as she is. So be the biggest white knight you can and indulge your sadistic side by denying Kathleen what she desires most. Have your cake and eat it too.
Although a great idea, I am a simple minded person. I still want to see her get fucked, literally. I need the visual stimulation for ... reasons :sneaky:.
 

Takkatakka

Engaged Member
Nov 11, 2022
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Lowkey, i think Kathleen is far more desperate and simpleminded than Rosalind. Obviously she is an actual human being and not some sadistic psychopath
What? Kathleen? Kathleen is VERY obviously a sadistic psychopath. She isn't like a serial killer (and hell, the next update(s) might even correct that assumption), but she very clearly is abusing and exploiting people for her own gain and amusement without a care in the world.
 

helo138

Newbie
Nov 4, 2018
21
52
What? Kathleen? Kathleen is VERY obviously a sadistic psychopath. She isn't like a serial killer (and hell, the next update(s) might even correct that assumption), but she very clearly is abusing and exploiting people for her own gain and amusement without a care in the world.
I think he was actually referring to Rosalind with this line.
 

Ottoeight

Forum Fanatic
Mar 13, 2021
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What? Kathleen? Kathleen is VERY obviously a sadistic psychopath. She isn't like a serial killer (and hell, the next update(s) might even correct that assumption), but she very clearly is abusing and exploiting people for her own gain and amusement without a care in the world.
Abel: Do you trust your bosses?
Edwin: One's a gangster, one's a bomb-making hedonist, and one of them is Kathleen Pulman.

This sums up everything. :sneaky:
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
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I don't think that's relevant here. MILF fans want to fuck the MILF. I don't think Ename ever said he wanted to fuck Kathleen; he said he appreciates her characterization. As in, he likes how well she's written.

Same with me. I don't want to fuck her, I want to kill her. Or at least get her sent to prison for life. She's doing her job as a villain, which is to make me feel angry and hostile toward her.

So, all that said, how do you feel about Kathleen? Do you want to see her get her just desserts? Or do you think the game would have been better had she never been written?
Precisely. To me, it's the mark of a well written villain when the audience hates them, whereas a poorly written villain makes the audience hate the author.

I hate Kathleen and love TD, 'nuff said. :D


Lowkey, i think Kathleen is far more desperate and simpleminded than Rosalind. Obviously she is an actual human being and not some sadistic psychopath, but when i look at the subtle differences between low/high affection and deal/no-deal i think it could be argued that as far as mindgames go she's lightyears ahead. Afterall there's a reason why she won't try as hard to win over an Edwin who didn't agree to her deal (despite arguably being a better person, just of less use to her), while 3 weeks in Kath is stll trying hard as ever to win over some random kid who may or may not want nothing to do with her.

Although on the flip side, i guess if Kath's endgoal is just to make things as miserable as possible for as many people as possible, then her approach makes a degree of sense. Still think she'd accomplish more if she were half as subtle as Rose, but even Palpatine crossed over to chaotic evil in his old age so who knows.
I agree Rosalind is underappreciated as a manipulator, but I don't think Kathleen necessarily comes off worse by comparison. They're trying to accomplish very different things. First, as you note, Kathleen wants to make people suffer. Lording her victims' helplessness over them is a big part of the fun; a more subtle approach would be counterproductive. Rosalind, on the other hand, just wants her problem solved; the fewer additional enemies she makes in the process the better, hence subtlety is ideal for her.

But second and more importantly, Rosalind is operating from a position of weakness whereas Kathleen is operating from a position of strength (though like Palpatine, Kat can be prone to overconfidence). Rosalind has no stick to bring people round, she can only try to convince them that helping her is a good idea. That requires a healthy dose of tact and discretion because no one likes being told what to do. Her attempt to seduce the MC, for example, isn't remotely subtle but is clearly calibrated to appeal to what she believes to be his sensibilities: compassionate and horny.

Kathleen, on the other hand, has plenty of tools in her arsenal so she can pick whichever will give the best results. When expedience is the order of the day, she goes straight for the jugular. When she needs something done carefully or wishes to minimize risk, she's quite capable of discretion. Just look at how she handled the punishment game after Week 2. Sure, the warm up with the cattle prod was pretty blatant, but when it comes time for the actual punishment she's quite hands-off because she wants to keep her direct fingerprints off it. She's already ensured the girls will respond the way she desires.
 

Daken9

Active Member
Apr 28, 2017
656
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What? Kathleen? Kathleen is VERY obviously a sadistic psychopath. She isn't like a serial killer (and hell, the next update(s) might even correct that assumption), but she very clearly is abusing and exploiting people for her own gain and amusement without a care in the world.
Right before i was talking about Rose and right after i was talking about Rose, so yeah i was talking about Rose :KEK:

Kathleen, on the other hand, has plenty of tools in her arsenal so she can pick whichever will give the best results. When expedience is the order of the day, she goes straight for the jugular. When she needs something done carefully or wishes to minimize risk, she's quite capable of discretion. Just look at how she handled the punishment game after Week 2. Sure, the warm up with the cattle prod was pretty blatant, but when it comes time for the actual punishment she's quite hands-off because she wants to keep her direct fingerprints off it. She's already ensured the girls will respond the way she desires.
Eh, don't really see it. Carrot and stick isn't really discreet, it's just carrot and stick. And if you always go for the stick anyway because you like waving it around, then what are you even trying to accomplish. Case in point, the caddle prod. Her main objective there should be getting Edwin to indulge himself, since she obviously cares about it so much (and she can always torment the girls later), yet as she always often does she over-indulges and all it gathers her is varying degress of wtf from any Edwin who is not as big a psycopath as her.

Which is, imo, Kathleen in a nutshell. Yeah, lots of tools in her arsenal, but always going for the hammer because she can. Even her arguably most underhanded plays, the secret drug deal and the exploitation of her sister's charity, she lowkey can't help mess up, the former by twice using that shit on some random kid for no reason at all (other than again, because she can), and the latter by letting everyone and their mothers know what's up, and how to ruin her if they want to.

I guess i could giver her some credit for forcing Edwin into the porn vid, although even that can blow in her face in a couple ways, but all in all i can see why she's pretty much the brothel's madame and that's about her cap.
 
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