VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Takkatakka]

Why can't incest, NTR, Harem all be in a game. It should be upto the players to go down which route they want to. Games shouldn't restrict them fearing whining of people. Dont use gallery mods to find out if there's anything you don't like in game

Because that is not how linear story VNs work.

 

[Idontplay]

Why can't incest, NTR, Harem all be in a game. It should be upto the players to go down which route they want to. Games shouldn't restrict them fearing whining of people. Dont use gallery mods to find out if there's anything you don't like in game

I think you can find some games in which there are all those contents. Unfortunately (for you) this isn't one of those games and we are happy about that. Anyway I agree with you: the developers shouldn't restrict them, fearing the whining people and be free to decide what contents put in their games or don't.

 

[Takkatakka]

be free to decide what contents put in their games or don't.

And that is why there is no NTR or incest in this game.

 

[Idontplay]

Why can't comedy and drama all be in a movie. It should be up to the viewers to go down which story they want to. Movies shouldn't restrict them fearing whining of people. Everything in it: slapstick comedy + comedy of manners + medical drama + war movie + spy story + crime story + fantasy + horror + romance + thriller + procedural police + superheroes + science fiction + western + sports.

Wouldn't it be "nice"?

No, it wouldn't be nice, because I want also the hystorycal, porn, kid, animation (all kind), live action…

 

[Carl0sDanger]

Sometimes, I feel like I'm the only person on this site that finds harems a turn-off. I would rather have significant, branching interactions with a single love interest than a ton of forced interactions with a bunch of random women.

And that's a fine thing to want, but maybe a game where the MC's job involves participating in live sex shows is not really compatible with the MC being monogamous. Equally though, I'm fine with this game having that "can't catch 'em all" approach.

 

[rippertipper]

I blame a generation raised on Pokemon.

No, sometimes you can't catch em all.

Sure you can. That is what multiple saves are for. I have my main run where I just go in blind and follow my gut for better and worse (of course I fell for the first girl to demand monogamy so far lol). Then after I get that save up to date, I explore with my other saves. I love that some games work for harem and do well with it, but I also love that sometimes devs have the stones to realize that not following the cries and whims of this community ultimately leads to better art, especially with these devs and their storytelling and direction and presentation.
As one of the prediction conspiracy theorists who loves to dissect and analyze the characters and story and pretend I have the slightest idea what's going to happen next, like this is the Song of Ice and Fire fandom, I need to gather as much evidence as possible before I post my wild theories here from multiple saves. For example did you know that Abel is time travelled Edwin?!?! Be sure to check out my 3 and a half hour long video essay on this topic
But in all seriousness, I do love Abel as a character. He single handedly shattered my prediction of where the story was going. He's an X factor that doesn't line up with the other character themes and foils and I love it.

 

[Axeleen]

Groce.

 

[DevinHesi]

Devil Hana's Realm

Happy Halloween Season <3

 

[TD1900]

Why can't incest, NTR, Harem all be in a game. It should be upto the players to go down which route they want to. Games shouldn't restrict them fearing whining of people. Dont use gallery mods to find out if there's anything you don't like in game

They certainly can be in **a** game, just not this one. And it's not about not inviting people's bitching, because the absence of those traits will also cause people to whine. In fact, no matter what you do, someone will be dissatisfied with it. So, the best thing developers can do is tailor the game to both their personal tastes and what's appropriate for the story they want to tell.

And speaking to my taste, I just don't like harems or incest in stories.

Generally speaking, the MC convincing five women to love and be monogamous solely to him stretches my personal suspension of disbelief a tad too thin in most cases, outside of more shlocky scenarios. It CAN work, but it doesn't suit the tone I want for Pale Carnations.

As for incest, it's usually cheaply done in my opinion, without any sense of weight to the taboo. To do it in a way that I'd be satisfied with, the scenario would have to support it and go in a direction I have no desire for it to go. Plus, I just don't find incest hot, even when done up like a steamy angst-ridden French movie. I did like Dreaming of Dana's approach to it, with the game's ultimate goal being to find a beard to conceal your relationship with your sister. For me, that sold the "society won't accept this" bit that most stories nominally bring up a couple of times but don't ever actually factor into the plot, but I'm also just a sucker for procedural elements.

Anyway, point is, a VN should be more than the sum of its tags, so nevermind what the player wants. Convince them of what you want.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Why can't incest, NTR, Harem all be in a game. It should be upto the players to go down which route they want to. Games shouldn't restrict them fearing whining of people. Dont use gallery mods to find out if there's anything you don't like in game

They certainly can be in **a** game, just not this one. And it's not about not inviting people's bitching, because the absence of those traits will also cause people to whine. In fact, no matter what you do, someone will be dissatisfied with it. So, the best thing developers can do is tailor the game to both their personal tastes and what's appropriate for the story they want to tell.

And speaking to my taste, I just don't like harems or incest in stories.

Generally speaking, the MC convincing five women to love and be monogamous solely to him stretches my personal suspension of disbelief a tad too thin in most cases, outside of more shlocky scenarios. It CAN work, but it doesn't suit the tone I want for Pale Carnations.

As for incest, it's usually cheaply done in my opinion, without any sense of weight to the taboo. To do it in a way that I'd be satisfied with, the scenario would have to support it and go in a direction I have no desire for it to go. Plus, I just don't find incest hot, even when done up like a steamy angst-ridden French movie. I did like Dreaming of Dana's approach to it, with the game's ultimate goal being to find a beard to conceal your relationship with your sister. For me, that sold the "society won't accept this" bit that most stories nominally bring up a couple of times but don't ever actually factor into the plot, but I'm also just a sucker for procedural elements.

Anyway, point is, a VN should be more than the sum of its tags, so nevermind what the player wants. Convince them of what you want.

Everyone here talking about Harem, incest, ntr, yet by FAR the most common theme and tag representation in this game is BDSM, imho at the cost of all others.

 

[TD1900]

Everyone here talking about Harem, incest, ntr, yet by FAR the most common theme and tag representation in this game is BDSM, imho at the cost of all others.

Funnily enough, I don't even think of us as a BDSM game.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Funnily enough, I don't even think of us as a BDSM game.

I wouldn't have initially, but after several updates of the contest events, that seems to be the overwhelming theme. Of course, that depends on whether one's focus is on the carnations or the side groups of Mina and Hana.

For the latter, I'd call it very harem-ish, for the former, very BDSMish.

 

[Takkatakka]

Funnily enough, I don't even think of us as a BDSM game.

I mean...you have the women getting locked into cages. You have them get electrocuted. You have Harper getting water dipped. You have one of them getting bound into a contraption to get bukkaked (is that a verb? ) on...

It's not super hardcore as far as BDSM goes, but it is definitely there.

 

[rippertipper]

Funnily enough, I don't even think of us as a BDSM game.

Isn't one of the core themes the exploration of sadism and desire and its effects on the people involved?

 

[TD1900]

I mean...you have the women getting locked into cages. You have them get electrocuted. You have Harper getting water dipped. You have one of them getting bound into a contraption to get bukkaked (is that a verb? ) on...

It's not super hardcore as far as BDSM goes, but it is definitely there.

Sure, but I never think of the game as targeting that niche. It's more "yeah, Kat WOULD tie the girls up right here" rather than "let's satisfy a kink." Doesn't really make a difference from a player's perspective, other than like you said, we're not really that hardcore of a game for the type of people who would specifically seek them out. I was just noting how incidental it felt to me in lieu of Johnny's criticism.

 

[Takkatakka]

Sure, but I never think of the game as targeting that niche. It's more "yeah, Kat WOULD tie the girls up right here" rather than "let's satisfy a kink." Doesn't really make a difference from a player's perspective, other than like you said, we're not really that hardcore of a game for the type of people who would specifically seek them out. I was just noting how incidental it felt to me in lieu of Johnny's criticism.

I would think from a quality point of view that would be the better way of writing the game anyway. Not thinking so much about "what tags do I need to fulfill" but instead "how can I write a coherent, logical and interesting story" and just take whatever tag ends up being part of that story.

 

[Elduriel]

As for incest, it's usually cheaply done in my opinion, without any sense of weight to the taboo. To do it in a way that I'd be satisfied with, the scenario would have to support it and go in a direction I have no desire for it to go. Plus, I just don't find incest hot, even when done up like a steamy angst-ridden French movie. I did like Dreaming of Dana's approach to it, with the game's ultimate goal being to find a beard to conceal your relationship with your sister. For me, that sold the "society won't accept this" bit that most stories nominally bring up a couple of times but don't ever actually factor into the plot, but I'm also just a sucker for procedural elements.

Anyway, point is, a VN should be more than the sum of its tags, so nevermind what the player wants. Convince them of what you want.

I have to agree with you on that, most of the time it's fucking unrealistic how incest games are done... but I do on occasion read some incest stories, and some of them are great, I just wish those stories could be "translated" into an AVN format, but that's highly unlikely for many reasons.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

I would think from a quality point of view that would be the better way of writing the game anyway. Not thinking so much about "what tags do I need to fulfill" but instead "how can I write a coherent, logical and interesting story" and just take whatever tag ends up being part of that story.

Of course, that's preferable. I was just calling for an honest look and reflection of what indeed represents the majority of gameplay.

Though I'd infer a subtext; your comment is most likely to be made by someone who enjoys the themes which happen to occupy the lion's share of the material, and vice versa, ala

I would think from a quality point of view that would be the better way of writing the game anyway. Not thinking so much about "what tags do I need to fulfill" but instead "how can I write a coherent, logical and interesting story" and just take whatever tag ends up being part of that story. (The themes ending up being a majority of the story just happening to be themes I largely enjoy)

And the same honesty could be applied to my comment-

Everyone here talking about Harem, incest, ntr, yet by FAR the most common theme and tag representation in this game is BDSM, imho at the cost of all others. (those other tags representing themes I would prefer over BDSM)

 

[Ungawa]

I have to agree with you on that, most of the time it's fucking unrealistic how incest games are done... but I do on occasion read some incest stories, and some of them are great, I just wish those stories could be "translated" into an AVN format, but that's highly unlikely for many reasons.

Like anything, it can be done.

Seen a bad game translated by a good one simply with an idea. Seen some people that find a good written story then translate it into a VN.

Can't say nothing's possible. Devs just need time, consideration, a screw loose, and infinite supplies of booze.

 

[DevinHesi]

Chapter 4 Up 4 Preview (3)

"We both got here early."



Chapter 4 Up 4 Preview (4)

"Umm... how's... how's it going?"