VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Idontplay]

Guys, let me turn the tables on the debate on Rosalind being interested in a relationship with Edwin:

if you were a 21 years old man, would you really favour a 36 years old woman with a 12 years old daughter over a 19 years old blond model?

Seriously, bros, come on...

Accordingly with my experience most of the young men would love stay with an experienced beautiful older woman, just to learn how to fuck and then they would dump her to stay with an Hana or a Mina of their age.

P.S. If Ottoeight has tried to turn the table on, I think I have blew it up.

 

[Turret]

Guys, let me turn the tables on the debate on Rosalind being interested in a relationship with Edwin:

if you were a 21 years old man, would you really favour a 36 years old woman with a 12 years old daughter over a 19 years old blond model?

Seriously, bros, come on...

Well, that always depends on personal tastes! My Top 3 (in no particular order) are Hana, Felicia and Sophia: So the (not quite as gothy as she might look) Goth drummer girl, the epicurean artist girl and the amoral genius nerd girl. So what does this tell you?
One thing is that TD1900 and GIL3D are really good, because normally I do not find girls tattooed to the heavy degree Hana is attractive at all.

 

[DirtyMario]

Guys, let me turn the tables on the debate on Rosalind being interested in a relationship with Edwin:

if you were a 21 years old man, would you really favour a 36 years old woman with a 12 years old daughter over a 19 years old blond model?

Seriously, bros, come on...

Most guys probably wouldn't. Different (but similar) point, Rosa probably wouldn't favor Edwin either. There are certain social norms you just can't weasel around. She has to introduce you to the girls from her book club (basically, FRIENDS is what I mean), you have to introduce her to your mom and her friends etc. And in about 20 years Edwin is in his late 30s, Rosa is a senior citizen and you both got really weird looks all throughout your relationship. Rosas daughter has reached an age where she questions just how horny her mom had to be to catch herself a guy this much younger. Most people would not want to put up with any of that.
Yes sure it's a fappy game and milfs in a certain age range are hot. Whatever, but we're talking realism at the moment.

Rose: "Ngggg! *CHUP, CHWUP, FWHUP, THURP...!*"

Every time I read that stuff I almost want to claw my eyes out.
I love you TD but jesus christ.
CHWUP FHWUP

 

[Bacchus1998]

Did you guys think that we have the chance to see a "fucked up" love path with Kathleen?

I truly believe she is the only character who is wife material.

 

[Nulldev]

Did you guys think that we have the chance to see a "fucked up" love path with Kathleen?

I truly believe she is the only character who is wife material.

I truly believe she is one of the characters who is wife material.
Fixed for you.

 

[Bill Temple]

Most guys probably wouldn't. Different (but similar) point, Rosa probably wouldn't favor Edwin either. There are certain social norms you just can't weasel around. She has to introduce you to the girls from her book club (basically, FRIENDS is what I mean), you have to introduce her to your mom and her friends etc. And in about 20 years Edwin is in his late 30s, Rosa is a senior citizen and you both got really weird looks all throughout your relationship. Rosas daughter has reached an age where she questions just how horny her mom had to be to catch herself a guy this much younger. Most people would not want to put up with any of that.
Yes sure it's a fappy game and milfs in a certain age range are hot. Whatever, but we're talking realism at the moment.

Every time I read that stuff I almost want to claw my eyes out.
I love you TD but jesus christ.
CHWUP FHWUP

Some of y'all love stretching the age difference between these two. Since we're talking about realism at the moment, twenty years from 36 is not a senior citizen. You can maybe argue that 62 is a senior citizen, but retirement ages are rising as people live and stay fitter longer, so realistically 65 or 68 is senior territory nowadays. 56 year olds can be and often are quite active and healthy. Twenty years from 22 is 42, decidedly middle-aged. Twenty years from 13 is 33, so Rosalind's daughter has reached the age where she fully understands just how horny her mom had to be to shack up with a studly catch like Dr. Turner.
And I think the book club gals will give respect to Rose for pulling a respectable Doc / sex-machine. Edwin's mom is clearly an open-minded person about social norms (e.g. retired pornstar), so she probably will be happy if her baby boy is happy.
Anyway, I'm not trying to talk anyone into a Rose ending if that's not their thing, just arguing for its viability.

PS - I love the Chwups and the Fhwups, but then again I don't know how else to concisely convey the symphony of wet, slappy sex sounds that I think heighten the reading experience.

 

[TD1900]

Every time I read that stuff I almost want to claw my eyes out.
I love you TD but jesus christ.
CHWUP FHWUP

I didn't write that particular instance, but point taken. 10+ years of eroge-reading has burned out my cringe reflex, but the porn parts must be constant agony for you.

Some of y'all love stretching the age difference between these two.

I mean, age gaps can be a big hurdle to a relationship. Personally speaking, I'm 33 and the thought of dating someone 10 years younger than me is unappealing. Even taking account of my own arrested development, the gap between life experience and relationship expectations would likely be large. But that is a personal problem, and as you get older, a 10 year age gap means less and less.

But, there's also 23 year olds who have lived a longer life than a 33 year old, so to speak. And that's the cut of it. It all comes down to the individuals and their circumstances. People have gotten together at similar ages to Rosalind and Edwin and made it work, just as countless people the same age break up every day. The totality of human experience is vast, and just because something is a hurdle doesn't mean you'll end up falling on your fat face. In my opinion, if you find someone to love you in this dark and cold world are banging a 10/10 stacked milf, don't let a few dirty looks get between you and happiness.

Generally speaking. Edwin + Rosalind, as it has been pointed out, would have a whole lot of other baggage to contend with.

 

[se20299]

I feel like people here underestimate just how underhanded and vicious Rose is. She's not some beat junkie bimbo getting turned out to get her next fix, she's a mother who's trying to get her child and herself out of danger. A few weeks ago she was a typical repressed housewife in a dead marriage with a loser husband, and now her whole world's been turned upside down.

Edwin is very susceptible to Rose, due to his own mommy issues and with Rose being in the same situation Vicky was when Edwin was a boy. But I believe Rose only sees Edwin as a useful idiot out of who she can fuck favors and help. It's a shame that Rose doesn't know about Vicky's circumstances, or she would be able to manipulate Edwin much more effectively.

Much like Vicky learned to enjoy the gangbangs and humilliation once she let go of shame and inhibitions, so does Rose start to enjoy her own humilliation, and the little slave/master relationship she's fostering with Edwin, as evidenced by her lust stat. But just as Vicky let go of her porn career and returned to normal life unscathed, Rose will want to forget about the Club as soon as she cashes out, and resume her normal life. And at the end of the day Edwin is just another one of her tormentors, who's also good friends with Ian, who has extensively tested Rose out before she got the gig. I doubt Rose cares about Edwin's petty struggles that led him to the club, especially given the gravity of her own situation.

Also, do you people actually think that Rose will let her daughter anywhere near a freak like Edwin, who's morally grey at best. I just think our boy Edwin shouldn't be surprised once Rose skips state after she gets the cash. The age gap is the least of their problems.

 

[Ottoeight]

I feel like people here underestimate just how underhanded and vicious Rose is. She's not some beat junkie bimbo getting turned out to get her next fix, she's a mother who's trying to get her child and herself out of danger. A few weeks ago she was a typical repressed housewife in a dead marriage with a loser husband, and now her whole world's been turned upside down.

He was not a loser. He was an abusive man and a gambling addict who beat her. She was in an abusive relationship. And that ugly Kathleen bitch cruelly pointed it out (to her and to Edwin).

Much like Vicky learned to enjoy the gangbangs and humilliation once she let go of shame and inhibitions, so does Rose start to enjoy her own humilliation, and the little slave/master relationship she's fostering with Edwin, as evidenced by her lust stat. But just as Vicky let go of her porn career and returned to normal life unscathed, Rose will want to forget about the Club as soon as she cashes out, and resume her normal life. And at the end of the day Edwin is just another one of her tormentors, who's also good friends with Ian, who has extensively tested Rose out before she got the gig. I doubt Rose cares about Edwin's petty struggles that led him to the club, especially given the gravity of her own situation.

Are you really sure? honestly, I am not. Just think about what she tells Ian and Edwin.

Much like Vicky learned to enjoy the gangbangs and humilliation once she let go of shame and inhibitions, so does Rose start to enjoy her own humilliation, and the little slave/master relationship she's fostering with Edwin, as evidenced by her lust stat. But just as Vicky let go of her porn career and returned to normal life unscathed, Rose will want to forget about the Club as soon as she cashes out, and resume her normal life. And at the end of the day Edwin is just another one of her tormentors, who's also good friends with Ian, who has extensively tested Rose out before she got the gig. I doubt Rose cares about Edwin's petty struggles that led him to the club, especially given the gravity of her own situation.

It depends on your gameplay, as the subtletly changing dialogues and Edwin's thoughts show.

I don't remember the story hinting at the fact / telling that Ian "tested" Rose.

Also, do you people actually think that Rose will let her daughter anywhere near a freak like Edwin, who's morally grey at best. I just think our boy Edwin shouldn't be surprised once Rose skips state after she gets the cash. The age gap is the least of their problems.

I think he wouldn't.

 

[dolfe67]

A big age gap in a couple is more accepted in society if the older one is the man, even though women live a few years longer than men. But there are exceptions, even famous ones like a certain president of a top 10 nation.

I think an ending with Rosa is certain, now how it plays out I'm not sure but there can be a good ending. If you play her good path you may notice how she's looking at him

 

[Ungawa]

I feel like people here underestimate just how underhanded and vicious Rose is. She's not some beat junkie bimbo getting turned out to get her next fix, she's a mother who's trying to get her child and herself out of danger. A few weeks ago she was a typical repressed housewife in a dead marriage with a loser husband, and now her whole world's been turned upside down.

Now this is a story all about how, Rose's life got flipped, turned upside down..

And I'd like to take a minute just sit right there...

I'll tell you how she's the Princess of a town called Bel-Air

...

Wait, wrong theme song...

Edwin is very susceptible to Rose, due to his own mommy issues and with Rose being in the same situation Vicky was when Edwin was a boy. But I believe Rose only sees Edwin as a useful idiot out of who she can fuck favors and help. It's a shame that Rose doesn't know about Vicky's circumstances, or she would be able to manipulate Edwin much more effectively.

I don't think useful idiot is quite the word for this one. Edwin has chances to go out of his way for all the girls and Rose responds accordingly. You can certainly exploit her and see a more vicious side, but someone on YOUR side for getting a bit of breathing room on finances hits different when you're out of your league on an issue. Rose has extraordinary circumstances and was thrust into it. So how she sees Edwin is in relation to what he's doing to help her with a bit of this also overlapping with assisting all the girls in knowing each other while also having them compete. What was stated before was that Rose is adaptable and that's her greatest strength. Girl certainly knows how to use it.

Much like Vicky learned to enjoy the gangbangs and humilliation once she let go of shame and inhibitions, so does Rose start to enjoy her own humilliation, and the little slave/master relationship she's fostering with Edwin, as evidenced by her lust stat. But just as Vicky let go of her porn career and returned to normal life unscathed, Rose will want to forget about the Club as soon as she cashes out, and resume her normal life. And at the end of the day Edwin is just another one of her tormentors, who's also good friends with Ian, who has extensively tested Rose out before she got the gig. I doubt Rose cares about Edwin's petty struggles that led him to the club, especially given the gravity of her own situation.

Still haven't gone through the new update but I think both Vicky and Rose are compartmentalizing what they have to do. We know there's social ramifications with Vicky but that princess is in an office castle so isn't quite dealing with her career. And no matter how much you cash this out, the ramifications and experience still hit you... We just don't know how yet.

Also, do you people actually think that Rose will let her daughter anywhere near a freak like Edwin, who's morally grey at best. I just think our boy Edwin shouldn't be surprised once Rose skips state after she gets the cash. The age gap is the least of their problems.

I'm not understanding this one... Rose MIGHT look into something short term with Edwin or she won't. It's really not up to us at this time. We gotta see how the story flows. But I do know that if Rose gets help on the debt, there's a certain gratitude to that. But seriously, I'd put this as highly speculative. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Bacchus1998]

Seriously, no one is going to talk about the possibility of a romantic path with Kathleen?

you guys embarrass me with your narrow minds!


You guys look like a bunch of members of the Spanish Inquisition

 

[sauron93]

Seriously, no one is going to talk about the possibility of a romantic path with Kathleen?

you guys embarrass me with your narrow minds!


You guys look like a bunch of members of the Spanish Inquisition

She's pushing 90 bro. Your romantic path won't last long

 

[Ungawa]

Seriously, no one is going to talk about the possibility of a romantic path with Kathleen?

you guys embarrass me with your narrow minds!


You guys look like a bunch of members of the Spanish Inquisition

Spoiler: She's married to a judge...

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But romance for that ol' biddy is gonna be a fight...

Spoiler: You might be looking for this...

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Spoiler: But you know you gonna get this...

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[CorprealFale]

On the whole age gap.
The largest single commonality in future divorces is an age-gap. The closer in age two people in a relationship is, the less likely a divorce becomes.

So in the longterm it's unlikely it would actually work.

 

[Ottoeight]

On the whole age gap.
The largest single commonality in future divorces is an age-gap. The closer in age two people in a relationship is, the less likely a divorce becomes.

So in the longterm it's unlikely it would actually work.

Statistics tell that the single largest commonality in divorced people in Western society is that divorced people have divorced parents.

 

[Ottoeight]

A big age gap in a couple is more accepted in society if the older one is the man, even though women live a few years longer than men. But there are exceptions, even famous ones like a certain president of a top 10 nation.

I think an ending with Rosa is certain, now how it plays out I'm not sure but there can be a good ending. If you play her good path you may notice how she's looking at him

My honest feeling is that I would consider Rose getting rid of her debt and move away with her daughter a satisfying, good story end. Same with Veronica saving her gym and getting back with her wife. Felicia? I guess a really good Felicia ending would be Felicia getting a divorce and having her own children and becoming a painter in a distant future.

I don't see why I should consider Edwin starting a stable relationship with a Carnation as the only good Carnations' endings.

I honestly think that the biggest problem with these Patreon funded non-hentai erotic VNs is that hentai tropes totally ruined most of them: why is an erotic/porn story supposed to end with its MC starting a stable relationship with a woman?

 

[Takkatakka]

I feel like people here underestimate just how underhanded and vicious Rose is. She's not some beat junkie bimbo getting turned out to get her next fix, she's a mother who's trying to get her child and herself out of danger. A few weeks ago she was a typical repressed housewife in a dead marriage with a loser husband, and now her whole world's been turned upside down.

Edwin is very susceptible to Rose, due to his own mommy issues and with Rose being in the same situation Vicky was when Edwin was a boy. But I believe Rose only sees Edwin as a useful idiot out of who she can fuck favors and help. It's a shame that Rose doesn't know about Vicky's circumstances, or she would be able to manipulate Edwin much more effectively.

Much like Vicky learned to enjoy the gangbangs and humilliation once she let go of shame and inhibitions, so does Rose start to enjoy her own humilliation, and the little slave/master relationship she's fostering with Edwin, as evidenced by her lust stat. But just as Vicky let go of her porn career and returned to normal life unscathed, Rose will want to forget about the Club as soon as she cashes out, and resume her normal life. And at the end of the day Edwin is just another one of her tormentors, who's also good friends with Ian, who has extensively tested Rose out before she got the gig. I doubt Rose cares about Edwin's petty struggles that led him to the club, especially given the gravity of her own situation.

Also, do you people actually think that Rose will let her daughter anywhere near a freak like Edwin, who's morally grey at best. I just think our boy Edwin shouldn't be surprised once Rose skips state after she gets the cash. The age gap is the least of their problems.

I think there are multiple things at play here. First and foremost its Rose's almost obsession about her daughter to the point it becomes almost questionable. Yes, taking good care for your kid is obviously commendable, important and the right thing to do, but for Rose it has gone so far, that she doesn't even know what to do with herself, when her daughter isn't around to be cared for. That is also the reason, why she immediately starts to take care of Edwin and/or Ian, whenever they are around.

A second aspect is that she - for obvious reasons - hates to feel indebted to someone. And I don't only mean the money she owes to the loan shark. It feels like whenever Edwin (or Ian) does something for her, she feels the need to give at least something back. A meal for example or just making them feel good through sex. For her sex is something she does seem to enjoy more and more, but it is also an easy way for her to pay someone back, even if that person just meant it as a favor and doesn't even want anything in return.

At least so far she hasn't really shown any deeper feelings towards Edward in my opinion and I don't think she has space in her heart for anyone but her daughter.

That said she won't skip state after all is said and done, since she explicitly stated she doesn't want to uproot her daughter (circling back to my first point, she is so obsessed with her daughter that she rather goes through the events in the club instead of inconvenience her daughter), but I don't see her and Edwin get into a stable and committed relationship at the end. At least not from the point in the story we're now at and if I interpret TD's comment right, not all the LI paths will lead to a "happily ever after".

I can see a happily ever after for Hana, Mina and it seems to develop for Frankie as well and probably an affair with Felicia (I mean she already is married), but with Rose? Even if she would be younger...right now I don't see a logical path to reach a ending in which here and Edwin are in some form of committed relationship.

 

[se20299]

I think there are multiple things at play here. First and foremost its Rose's almost obsession about her daughter to the point it becomes almost questionable. Yes, taking good care for your kid is obviously commendable, important and the right thing to do, but for Rose it has gone so far, that she doesn't even know what to do with herself, when her daughter isn't around to be cared for. That is also the reason, why she immediately starts to take care of Edwin and/or Ian, whenever they are around.

A second aspect is that she - for obvious reasons - hates to feel indebted to someone. And I don't only mean the money she owes to the loan shark. It feels like whenever Edwin (or Ian) does something for her, she feels the need to give at least something back. A meal for example or just making them feel good through sex. For her sex is something she does seem to enjoy more and more, but it is also an easy way for her to pay someone back, even if that person just meant it as a favor and doesn't even want anything in return.

At least so far she hasn't really shown any deeper feelings towards Edward in my opinion and I don't think she has space in her heart for anyone but her daughter.

That said she won't skip state after all is said and done, since she explicitly stated she doesn't want to uproot her daughter (circling back to my first point, she is so obsessed with her daughter that she rather goes through the events in the club instead of inconvenience her daughter), but I don't see her and Edwin get into a stable and committed relationship at the end. At least not from the point in the story we're now at and if I interpret TD's comment right, not all the LI paths will lead to a "happily ever after".

I can see a happily ever after for Hana, Mina and it seems to develop for Frankie as well and probably an affair with Felicia (I mean she already is married), but with Rose? Even if she would be younger...right now I don't see a logical path to reach a ending in which here and Edwin are in some form of committed relationship.

Wow, you phrased my comment better than I did! Thank you for that. That's exactly what I was trying to say. Rose is by far the most unhealthy and toxic LI option for Edwin, both due to Edwin's mommy issues and Rose's parallels with Vicky, along with the fact that Edwin still hasn't fully come to terms with the duality of his mom being a "saint" and her porn career, which he noticebly struggles with during his interactions with Rose, and he unfairly projects many of his unacknowledged issues with his mom onto Rose, and he hasn't even begun to unpack his mommy issues.

There's also the fact that Rose has gotten out of a long lived toxic relationship, and I don't think she has a good framework of a healthy relationship, judging by her using sex as a currency, instead of something she wants to do. And her doting on Edwin unknowingly stirs up his mommy issues, which Rose has no idea about. There's also her daughter, who will always come first for Rose, as she should. But that's unfair towards a young man like Edwin who needs a partner fully devoted to him and who won't judge him and who will support him (Hana *wink wink*). I think both Edwin and Rose have far too much baggage to be good partners to each other, and they bring out each other's worst impulses.

Hell, I think even Kat would be a more healthy and balanced LI for Edwin, just by the fact that Kat knows who she is and is upfront about her preferences and intentions, while I get the sense that Rose, and Edwin to a lesser extent, don't know what they want.

 

[Turret]

Now this is a story all about how, Rose's life got flipped, turned upside down..

And I'd like to take a minute just sit right there...

I'll tell you how she's the Princess of a town called Bel-Air

...

Wait, wrong theme song...

I don't think useful idiot is quite the word for this one. Edwin has chances to go out of his way for all the girls and Rose responds accordingly. You can certainly exploit her and see a more vicious side, but someone on YOUR side for getting a bit of breathing room on finances hits different when you're out of your league on an issue. Rose has extraordinary circumstances and was thrust into it. So how she sees Edwin is in relation to what he's doing to help her with a bit of this also overlapping with assisting all the girls in knowing each other while also having them compete. What was stated before was that Rose is adaptable and that's her greatest strength. Girl certainly knows how to use it.

Still haven't gone through the new update but I think both Vicky and Rose are compartmentalizing what they have to do. We know there's social ramifications with Vicky but that princess is in an office castle so isn't quite dealing with her career. And no matter how much you cash this out, the ramifications and experience still hit you... We just don't know how yet.

I'm not understanding this one... Rose MIGHT look into something short term with Edwin or she won't. It's really not up to us at this time. We gotta see how the story flows. But I do know that if Rose gets help on the debt, there's a certain gratitude to that. But seriously, I'd put this as highly speculative. I'll leave it at that.

My honest feeling is that I would consider Rose getting rid of her debt and move away with her daughter a satisfying, good story end. Same with Veronica saving her gym and getting back with her wife. Felicia? I guess a really good Felicia ending would be Felicia getting a divorce and having her own children and becoming a painter in a distant future.

I don't see why I should consider Edwin starting a stable relationship with a Carnation as the only good Carnations' endings.

I honestly think that the biggest problem with these Patreon funded non-hentai erotic VNs is that hentai tropes totally ruined most of them: why is an erotic/porn story supposed to end with its MC starting a stable relationship with a woman?

I think there are multiple things at play here. First and foremost its Rose's almost obsession about her daughter to the point it becomes almost questionable. Yes, taking good care for your kid is obviously commendable, important and the right thing to do, but for Rose it has gone so far, that she doesn't even know what to do with herself, when her daughter isn't around to be cared for. That is also the reason, why she immediately starts to take care of Edwin and/or Ian, whenever they are around.

A second aspect is that she - for obvious reasons - hates to feel indebted to someone. And I don't only mean the money she owes to the loan shark. It feels like whenever Edwin (or Ian) does something for her, she feels the need to give at least something back. A meal for example or just making them feel good through sex. For her sex is something she does seem to enjoy more and more, but it is also an easy way for her to pay someone back, even if that person just meant it as a favor and doesn't even want anything in return.

At least so far she hasn't really shown any deeper feelings towards Edward in my opinion and I don't think she has space in her heart for anyone but her daughter.

That said she won't skip state after all is said and done, since she explicitly stated she doesn't want to uproot her daughter (circling back to my first point, she is so obsessed with her daughter that she rather goes through the events in the club instead of inconvenience her daughter), but I don't see her and Edwin get into a stable and committed relationship at the end. At least not from the point in the story we're now at and if I interpret TD's comment right, not all the LI paths will lead to a "happily ever after".

I can see a happily ever after for Hana, Mina and it seems to develop for Frankie as well and probably an affair with Felicia (I mean she already is married), but with Rose? Even if she would be younger...right now I don't see a logical path to reach a ending in which here and Edwin are in some form of committed relationship.

Hi!
There are good reasons due to circumstances, personality and Eagle Eye view, why I consider Hana, Felicia and Sophia in front of e.g. Mina or Rosi for a relationship.
Hana is rather self-explaining to anyone playing the game. They can form a nice bond, do not judge and want to support the other. There is a happy ending for them in the cards, with kids of their own, in and out of the Club.

Felicia might be an epicurean artist (she actually has won several prices already), who became a gold digger, but she has never forgotten her roots, which is why she wants to save/reopen her old school. Which is the reason she is in the competition at all. Felicia might love sex, but as we can see in the game she is one of Epikur´s children, so she sucks big time at taking and dishing out punishment. She is also one of the most intelligent persons in the game. In addition, she is developing a crush on Edwin, just look at her reaction when you decide to go with her to the art exhibtion for free.
I definitely can see a rather happy ending of Felicia and Edwin, with kids of their own, both inside and outside the Club.

While I know what several other members will say and I am aware of the general situation who are the main LIs of the game, Sophia Lundgren is one of the best fits for Edwin. Both are socially challenged Nerds with a lot of life baggage they carry around. But they can click together (depending on your choices) to the point they banter a bit during the "home invasion". Edwin is aware that quite a bit of their rime together was a test for something, but as we can see with their makeout session in the blue room, they have a connection. Sophia could have sat out this thing without blinking, but she chose to get involved.

I know that Sophia is a dangerous and calculating woman, but she is also a very straight, blunt, eccentric person. She is hardly the best choice to hear out someone. That Sophia and Edwin can click together as well is because they are more alike than some might think they are.
I can definitely see a possible happy ending for those two, along with a couple of nerd kids.

I would put even Dahlia and Mina in front of Rosi and Vera as happy LI choices!