| Either that or he does realize it and he is indifferent or just doesn't care. The main question is how dark he is actually... because I'm thinking he's the MC's Father because of his mother's carnation experience/porn career as others call it and the club/ dark side of pervesion as in the proverbial apple doesn't fall far from the tree.... So the biggest question is how meaningful are mc's choices heading into the ending(s). Is there a light ending, dark ending, grey ending or possibly more? Maybe one of the LI's is as others have stated just as messed up as the MC.... I imagine the dark ending would have to include Kathleen, light ending not sure maybe the blonde Ians gf or ex whatever she is maybe not entirely sure, and the grey would be nobody or possibly a throuple who knows that's up to the dev(s). |
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I will be surprised if this is the case
You can discard Warren or August completely. Yes, they are dark, bad characters. But they are run of the mill dark bad characters. Sure, they have their skeletons in the closed but, at the end of the day they are just a regular Mafiosi and a hired muscle with no agenda of their own. Jacob and Ian are two steps below and have some redeeming qualities.
That let us with three contenders for the title. Kath, Chuck and van Doren.
Kath it´s, no doubt a bad, dark character. But it´s a bad, dark character with everything upfront. There are no signs that she become worst and darker as the story progress. Chuck and van Doren, at the other hand, are holding a mask.
If I have to bet in someone, my bet would be van Doren.
It's very interesting that you think Abel, perhaps giving credence to the whole "the greatest thing to fear is the unknown," or even "the devil you know." However Abel and Sophia's recent actions in the story really changed up how I saw all of the established club characters narratively, and I think their roles, in relation to Edwin, give us better context to the eventual raison d'être for the current club's leadership. You see, I had long held the idea that Kath, Chuck, and August were generational foils to Edwin, Ian, and Hana respectively, but with Edwin being the main character he also got a second generational foil in Victoria, his mother, as a hard counter to his future as a possible Kathleen protégé. Edwin's mother had a short dalliance into the dark underbelly of perversion and debauchery that Edwin is currently enveloped in yet also came back out and returned to normal society, a constant reminder to Edwin that no matter what you can always choose to leave. Kathleen on the other hand got a taste of this world and subsequently immersed and dedicated herself to it. So I had thought of Kath and Vicky as almost like the little devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other for Edwin and a foreshadowing symbol of where his path and choices may take him. Roughly the same situation for Ian and Hana with their club foils and their out of club life. You know, relatively basic theory stuff for this thread. Then along come Abel and Sophia and I'm all bright eyed and innocent and having an ice cream cone blissfully ignorant and thinking "Oh! Neat. These two are some cool antagonists that will the threaten the club and the blonde nazi scientist lady is hot!" yada yada yada.
That would have been fine if I had kept thinking that, but then the game kept giving them more and more cinematic focus, implying a deeper narrative role. Specifically two scenes really encouraged me to adjust my perspective and reexamine these characters, the make-out scene with Kath and the home invasion. On the surface, these scenes could be easily written off as simply one is hot and the other teases mystery about the upcoming plot, but I really think these two scenes set up Abel and Sophia as yet another pair of foils for Chuck and Kath. In the makeout scene, this is more obvious with Sophia and Kath both sitting on opposite sides of the MC and competing for his sexual desire. Hot right? It absolutely is. But it also led me to realize just how much Sophia and Edwin have in common from their pursuit of medical science to even how Sophia's emotional detachment is reminiscent of Edwin on multiple occasions, specifically whenever his mother getting gangbanged live on TV and some AM stations is brought to the forefront of his mind. Of course we also have seen Edwin have similar detachment during some of the harder BDSM scenes like his "reward" scene where Edwin starts thinking about himself in the context of the situation almost as an outsider studying Edwin rather than Edwin being a participant and present in the moment, albeit however brief. So does Sophia represent a third possible future for Edwin in addition to the futures represented by Mommy Dommy Kath and Mommy Milkers Vicky? I'm starting to think so. Perhaps Sophia is the most accurate glimpse into Edwin's future even. Kath represents Edwin indulging into his desire. His mother represents Edwin defeating or repressing his desire. But maybe Sophia represents Edwin doing what he does best, studying and analyzing his desire.
That brings us back to Abel von Doren. Abel's framing relative to Edwin in the home invasion scene really reminded me of a couple scenes where Edwin is found speaking to Uncle Chuck, but the demeanor of Abel is almost entirely opposite of Chuck. Chuck will constantly be leaning forward, smiling, and overall acting quite warmly towards Edwin and then the game goes out of its way to constantly remind us how dangerous he probably is. Chuck is very much encouraging Edwin to have fun and just "hang out with your wang out brochacho my nacho" or whatever the kids say these days, and coming off as inviting all the while Chuck actively hides his fangs from the MC. Contrast that with Abel who very coldly and rudely comes into Edwin's home, his physical demeanor is closed off, and he appears even reluctant to tell Edwin the exact thing he came into his home to tell him. His entire presence in that scene seems almost as if an officer from invading army is trying to warn the local civilian populace to get out before he invades. Why? Why would he do that? Is he trying to turn Edwin against the club establishment? He really doesn't tell Edwin enough to do that, even though we almost certainly know that he knows enough information that would have led to that effect if desired. It doesn't make any sense, right? Unless, Abel really is a foil of Chuck and instead of being danger disguised as friendliness, he is actually a hopelessly altruistic man disguised as a cold emotionless corporate CEO.
Considering Sophia's foil Kath is both respectful but cautious of Chuck because of the wickedness we deliberately haven't seen yet but most assuredly exists, what would cause Abel to have earned Sophia's unwavering and undying dedication and loyalty? To answer that, think about what we know about Sophia. She isn't necessarily a sadist. She doesn't seem like a masochist. Hell, desire doesn't even seem that important to her outside of her studying it. She doesn't seem to want to harm anyone, so why would she be so dedicated to someone who would? We do know that both her and Abel stick out like sore thumbs at the club, and I'd be willing to bet an Argentinian dollar that it is because these two are secretly good people in a den of wolves.
Edit: Shit, TD reacted to this post before I even finished editing the spelling and grammar errors. How embarrassing!
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- Sep 20, 2018
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This is an interesting take, no doubt. But I'm not sure I can get behind the idea of Sophia as some sort of altruist simply because she doesn't seem to be in it for the sadism. IMHO her fealty to van Doren really has nothing to do with their respective morality, and possibly not even their ultimate goals. I'd say it's mostly down to Sophia lionizing the sheer scope his vision - whatever that turns out to be. That sort of creativity seems to be the key element Sophia finds lacking in herself, despite her plethora of technical accomplishments.
I'm also skeptical that Sophia has all that much in common with the MC. We're explicitly told he lacks the innate genius that seems to be her most distinctive trait... well, her most distinctive non-aesthetic trait, anyway.
She is the best, while he is unremarkable. Likewise while it might be possible to draw comparisons between the MC's devotion to Victoria and Sophia's devotion to Abel, I don't think those comparisons hold up. The MC's devotion is to an idealized image that - for obvious reasons - the MC had to observe from a considerable distance; Victoria earned that devotion specifically by trying to keep her troubles as far from the MC as she could. On the other hand, Abel and Sophia are literal coworkers who seem very much to be on the same page; it's possible that they're hiding a boatload of unspoken secrets from each other, but we've seen no evidence of that. Nor does it seem like she needed Abel's help to curb her demons the way the Victoria helped the MC become an upstanding member of society.Lastly, I don't agree that Abel or Sophia stick out like sore thumbs at the Club; I'd say they fit in quite well, both in their observed activities and their arrogant approach to interactions. The only out of character thing they've done is warn the MC to be careful, but we can't be sure how out of character that is until we have a better sense of their motives. Gracing someone with seemingly sound advice is seems to be how Chuck managed to twist Ian into the becoming misogynist he is today, and it's definitely how Kathleen got Hana to accept August's offer. Abel's warning could be genuine, or it could be more Club-style manipulation. We just don't know yet.
And that's the problem with speculating about Abel and Sophia. For all their focus, they're still very blank slates. We might simply be projecting our preferences onto them.
- Mar 13, 2021
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I don't think Ian is a misogynist: he's a womaniser and an edonist. My guess is that he's got unsolved deep issues with his parents. We'll have to ask our old chap Dr Sigmund (Freud) for some answers.
About Abel's warning: I think it's partly genuine, but we could add that he's totally aware that Chuck doesn't like what he's doing in the Club and that Chuck warned Kathleen to leave Edwin away from that shit, therefore Abel's trying to fend off Chuck's blows.
Okay. here is to hoping I formatted this correctly. It's been well over a decade and some change since I was intimately familiar with html or message board formatting. First and foremost, this is just my own brand of speculation trying to utilize narrative themes and tropes to almost chart a general course to attempt to see behind the curtain a little bit before it is directly shown to us. In regards to your first point, I wasn't suggesting Sophia herself was an altruist, but that Abel might possibly be and that may be what helped win her devotion and loyalty in a way that contrasts with Kath and Chuck's relationship. Although I do really love your last sentence in this paragraph and I'm biting on that shit like its a double bacon cheeseburger with a donut for a bun. Perhaps Sophia is defined by her detachment, and her lacking that element of creativity is a sad byproduct of that characteristic.
Again, I fear I may have miscommunicated my point in that livejournal length blogpost I wrote. I wasn't trying to compare Edwin's devotion to his mother to Sophia's devotion to Able or Kath's temporary loyalty (imho out of fear) to Chuck. Instead I was trying to establish these three women as representation of the choices before Edwin and the consequences of those choices and possibly as paths before him where he himself may end up. I didn't really mean this in a literal sense, but I tried to use story telling devices to draw that connection because such a connection would have a bigger dramatic impact on Edwin's story and journey. Rather how Marley is a blatant representation of the endpoint of Scrooge's current life path in Dickens' A Christmas Carol, or if you'd rather a more modern reference- when Luke fights the illusion of Vader in the jungle cave only for the now separated head of Vader to be revealed to have Luke's own face. In play and film, the shorter length means these allegories don't have as much time to settle with the audience and must delivered bluntly and quickly, whereas the extended narrative format of an AVN allows the writers much more time to establish themes and weave in foreshadowing and symbolism.I'm also skeptical that Sophia has all that much in common with the MC. We're explicitly told he lacks the innate genius that seems to be her most distinctive trait... well, her most distinctive non-aesthetic trait, anyway.
I respectfully disagree with your first sentence of this section. Abel and Sophia stuck out from the very beginning to the point of notice from the MC as to the difference in both their demeanor and behavior. Abel appears to have partaken of none of the product served at the local sloot scoot, instead he seems much more interested in Kath and Chuck themselves. Whenever we see him, he still the standoffish and isolated man he always appears to be oft surrounded by other men languishing in their own sin and debauchery. I think this contrast is intentional. Here in this den of ravenous wolves howling about their meat, sits one quiet, disinterested, and very "unwolflike" wolf who is also there. Sophia of course spends a lot of her time being a distraction for Chuck, a puzzle he hasn't yet solved. Something so foreign he becomes fascinated by it. He was to seduce her, because I think he refuses to believe she is so divorced from her own desire as that would call into question his own way of life. Very often in life and in fiction, when someone comes across another individual whom leads a life so different from their own they will often try to prove the other a falsity. Think of when an atheist and a deeply religious person meet, neither truly believes the other is the way they are and will assert that said other is insincere in their stance. I think we can follow this line of thinking into your next statement regarding Chuck and Ian. I had said earlier that I think the club establishment acts as generational foils to our young protagonist and his two deuteragonist friends, and that in all three there is a mentor/student relationship at best and a 'grooming of the heir' relationship at worst with their foils. I don't think Chuck intentionally manipulated Ian into becoming a man so out of control, he is in danger of ruin. Instead I would posit that in Ian Uncle Chuck saw a lot of himself and so wanted to guide the young man to what he though was the key of happiness. However the combination of Ian's own personality and traumas caused him to exhibit such ideals in a self-destructive manner. Ian has given up on himself and the value of his own character, I'd venture, and because of this is much more satisfied to wallow and self-indulge. The interesting thing is how Ian's mood and demeanor instantly shift whenever his best friend or Victoria come into the picture- especially when Ian is feeling needed or appreciated by Edwin and Vicky Tits McGee. But I think that analysis is for another time lest I break the record for longest post in this thread. Kathleen's manipulation of Hana, on the other hand, does seem intentional and also out of Kathleen's sense of self-preservation. Kathleen's position among the Club leadership is the weakest and she knows it, and she knows she'll feel the effects of a boat being rocked more than August or Chuck.
As to your final statement, I agree. We don't know enough yet. Which is why I do think it's a fun time to try to utilize tropes, archetypes, and themes to attempt to divine what is yet to be revealed. I mean it's either that or whine about ntr/harem/incest all the day long
- Nov 19, 2017
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- Mar 13, 2021
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Guys, debating about the story is nice, but these white walls of text on black screen are killing my eyes.
Being concise is a golden rule.
Being concise is a golden rule.
- Oct 29, 2021
- 3,722
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- Oct 29, 2021
- 3,722
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Bonus Art: Dawn Of Riches
This will become a transition image next update
This will become a transition image next update
- Oct 18, 2017
- 94
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Edwin is definitely an extremely fascinating MC. He seems very dissasociated, almost to the point of being emotionless. We occasionally see flashes of his true self, and it's a very chaotic mixture of a savior complex, mommy issues, unresolved anger, and willful ignorance of his true nature, because he knows deep down what's inside the rabbit hole of his sexuality. He does a lot of compartmentalizing to cope with his fucked up circumstances, as any other explanation would mess him up even more.
Let's start with his relationship with our favorite pornstar, Vicky. Our MCs problems truly began the first time 15 year old Edwin saw his mom getting gangbanged on the screen. Now, Edwin was already a nasty kid with a chip on his shoulder, raised by a single mom who couldn't possibly control him, but all kids eventually mellow out of their rebellious phase, just like Edein seemingly calmed down and became a fine young man. But we also know that there's a huge darkness lurking beyond the "mediocre nerd" surface Edwin presents.
He just seems like he's always pretending in social settings, almost none of his interactions at the start seem genuine. He gets better as the game progresses, but his lack of socialization is clear when the game starts. He's basically a shut in loser who watches his mom getting glazed by strangers in his free time, and his only "friend" is Ian, who has his own set of issues and complexes regarding Edwin and Vicky that deserve an analysis of it's own. My point is, Edwin is a fucking weirdo with a mother complex that hasn't even began to unpack his issues, because instictually, he himself is aware what lurks underneath the surface.
It's also very telling that Kat, the Dommy GILF herself, has immidiately indentified Edwin as her possible protege in sadism. Sure, Ian has been there for longer, but Ian still has that childlile naiveté to himself that makes him unsuitable for Kat's brand of sadism and torture. Plus, Kat smelled blood as soon as she found out about Vicky's past in porn, and how it affected Edwin. The biggest weapon Kat has in manipulating Edwin is Rosalind, who stirs up his mommy issues and draws the biggest parallel with Vicky, as they're both single mothers scratching out a living for their kids on their backs. We also see most of Vicky's flashbacks during Rose scenes, which further confirms my theory.
Edwins whole identity is based around repaying his mother for "enduring" humilliation for his sake, and his borderline obsession with Vicky suggests a lot of unresolved and unadressed issues, which resulted in Edwin's sadistic sexual tendencies. His compartmentalization of his mother's dark sexuality and her wholesome housewife persona means that he never truly came to terms with his mom's porn career, and now whenever he sees a woman enjoying degrading and humilliating sex, he assumes that she's "laying back and thinking of England", just like his mother must have done, because good women supposedly aren't supposed to enjoy degrading and humilliating sex, and that creates the dichtomy of his mother being a saint and a whore in his head. Edwin has a much more complete picture of Victoria than Ian, but I think that not even Edwin has the complete image of Victoria.
For example, during the sex scene at Rose's house, after he finds out Rose enjoys demeaning dirty talk, we get a flashback to Vicky enjoying a gangbang and going completely crazy, which Edwin copes with by choosing to believe that Rose's simply playing it up for Edwin just like Vicky did for the cameras.
The same thing happens during Rose's porno shoot, after Rose gets completely lost in lust, we get a flashback of Vicky having some playful banter with a pornstar, and then later getting fucked silly by him, Edwin once again compartmentalizes this by assuming the girls were taking back control by forcing themselves to enjoy degrading sex.
There's also Felicia's photoshoot, where Edwin has the option of getting angry at Felicia's flippant attitude towards the competition, and spitting on everything his mother suffered through, and we get another flashback of Victoria lying to little Edwin about working at the bar, and then a few hours later we see Vicky completely unconcious, getting completely glazed by a few strangers.
This shows us Edwin's deep seated anger, that even Edwin himself doesn't know where it's coming from, as is evident by his inner monologue at the time.
There's also an interesting tidbit during Edwin's pillow talk with Mina, where he admits that the concept of defiling and corrupting something pure turns him on, and we get another flashback of Vicky getting fucked and verbally humilliated by some thug looking pornstar.
There are a few more examples of Vicky's porn career affecting Edwin's sexuality, but I can't be bothered to find them all. My point is that Edwin needs to come to terms with Vicky's porn career and sexuality if he wants to have a shot at a healthy sexual life. His compartmentalization and repression of his anger only serves in Kat's favor, making her manipulation of Edwin easier, as Edwin still hasn't come to terms with Vicky's role in his sexual formation. We've sees the full gravity of his choices hit him when he realizes that August might have been one of his mom's producers and/or pimps, and he's so relieved by Vicky's denial that he doesn't notice that she's obviously lying, and the very next day she prods Ian for information about August, but he wisely doesn't let anything slip.
Vicky's been getting more and more nosy about Edwin's line of work, and I'm afraid that the resolution of that won't be pretty, but it will be pivotal for Edwin's character. I do think that Edwin's a bit of an unreliable narrator, as he's probably hiding some things from the player, but I think we have a clear enough picture of him to make an accurate assesment. Of course, YMMV depending on your playthrough.
Anyway, thanks for reading this wall of text. Of cours, I may be completely wrong, but theorizing is the part of the charm until we get the full picture.
Let's start with his relationship with our favorite pornstar, Vicky. Our MCs problems truly began the first time 15 year old Edwin saw his mom getting gangbanged on the screen. Now, Edwin was already a nasty kid with a chip on his shoulder, raised by a single mom who couldn't possibly control him, but all kids eventually mellow out of their rebellious phase, just like Edein seemingly calmed down and became a fine young man. But we also know that there's a huge darkness lurking beyond the "mediocre nerd" surface Edwin presents.
He just seems like he's always pretending in social settings, almost none of his interactions at the start seem genuine. He gets better as the game progresses, but his lack of socialization is clear when the game starts. He's basically a shut in loser who watches his mom getting glazed by strangers in his free time, and his only "friend" is Ian, who has his own set of issues and complexes regarding Edwin and Vicky that deserve an analysis of it's own. My point is, Edwin is a fucking weirdo with a mother complex that hasn't even began to unpack his issues, because instictually, he himself is aware what lurks underneath the surface.
It's also very telling that Kat, the Dommy GILF herself, has immidiately indentified Edwin as her possible protege in sadism. Sure, Ian has been there for longer, but Ian still has that childlile naiveté to himself that makes him unsuitable for Kat's brand of sadism and torture. Plus, Kat smelled blood as soon as she found out about Vicky's past in porn, and how it affected Edwin. The biggest weapon Kat has in manipulating Edwin is Rosalind, who stirs up his mommy issues and draws the biggest parallel with Vicky, as they're both single mothers scratching out a living for their kids on their backs. We also see most of Vicky's flashbacks during Rose scenes, which further confirms my theory.
Edwins whole identity is based around repaying his mother for "enduring" humilliation for his sake, and his borderline obsession with Vicky suggests a lot of unresolved and unadressed issues, which resulted in Edwin's sadistic sexual tendencies. His compartmentalization of his mother's dark sexuality and her wholesome housewife persona means that he never truly came to terms with his mom's porn career, and now whenever he sees a woman enjoying degrading and humilliating sex, he assumes that she's "laying back and thinking of England", just like his mother must have done, because good women supposedly aren't supposed to enjoy degrading and humilliating sex, and that creates the dichtomy of his mother being a saint and a whore in his head. Edwin has a much more complete picture of Victoria than Ian, but I think that not even Edwin has the complete image of Victoria.
For example, during the sex scene at Rose's house, after he finds out Rose enjoys demeaning dirty talk, we get a flashback to Vicky enjoying a gangbang and going completely crazy, which Edwin copes with by choosing to believe that Rose's simply playing it up for Edwin just like Vicky did for the cameras.
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There's also Felicia's photoshoot, where Edwin has the option of getting angry at Felicia's flippant attitude towards the competition, and spitting on everything his mother suffered through, and we get another flashback of Victoria lying to little Edwin about working at the bar, and then a few hours later we see Vicky completely unconcious, getting completely glazed by a few strangers.
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This shows us Edwin's deep seated anger, that even Edwin himself doesn't know where it's coming from, as is evident by his inner monologue at the time.
There's also an interesting tidbit during Edwin's pillow talk with Mina, where he admits that the concept of defiling and corrupting something pure turns him on, and we get another flashback of Vicky getting fucked and verbally humilliated by some thug looking pornstar.
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There are a few more examples of Vicky's porn career affecting Edwin's sexuality, but I can't be bothered to find them all. My point is that Edwin needs to come to terms with Vicky's porn career and sexuality if he wants to have a shot at a healthy sexual life. His compartmentalization and repression of his anger only serves in Kat's favor, making her manipulation of Edwin easier, as Edwin still hasn't come to terms with Vicky's role in his sexual formation. We've sees the full gravity of his choices hit him when he realizes that August might have been one of his mom's producers and/or pimps, and he's so relieved by Vicky's denial that he doesn't notice that she's obviously lying, and the very next day she prods Ian for information about August, but he wisely doesn't let anything slip.
Vicky's been getting more and more nosy about Edwin's line of work, and I'm afraid that the resolution of that won't be pretty, but it will be pivotal for Edwin's character. I do think that Edwin's a bit of an unreliable narrator, as he's probably hiding some things from the player, but I think we have a clear enough picture of him to make an accurate assesment. Of course, YMMV depending on your playthrough.
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Anyway, thanks for reading this wall of text. Of cours, I may be completely wrong, but theorizing is the part of the charm until we get the full picture.
Is there an option to remove the Bottom Menu ?
(so I only access it by right clicking mouse)
It seems to detract from the rest of the display ,the picture and text.
Else if I cannot remove it ,is there a pic file I can iuse that is partly translucent (less gaudy)?
(so I only access it by right clicking mouse)
It seems to detract from the rest of the display ,the picture and text.
Else if I cannot remove it ,is there a pic file I can iuse that is partly translucent (less gaudy)?
- Dec 8, 2017
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As far as I know, no one's made a patch to do that, so the two simplest options:
1) Technically, you could use the command console to "hide screen qmenu", but the problem there would be the game occasionally hides and shows it at certain choices (usually anything with more than 3 options), so you would have to manually rehide it every now and then.
2) You can use a .bat file found on this forum called UnRen to unarchive the game's files and get access to the GUI folder and replace qmenu_idle.png and qmenu_hover.png with whatever you feel like, as for example, a blank or less transparent version of the quick menu images.
I will note we have been reworking various UI elements, so the bottom menu will likely get a redesigned, but that doesn't help you if you're just starting and are staring down 10+ hours of reading.
Thank you for your very prompt answer so far.
How do I use option (1)?
I have used console in some FPS games but no where else.
What key do I press to open console ,and then what do I type?
(assuming it is that easy)
How do I use option (1)?
I have used console in some FPS games but no where else.
What key do I press to open console ,and then what do I type?
(assuming it is that easy)
- Dec 8, 2017
- 791
- 7,439
There's a few ways:
1) You can activate the dev console in the game's files. That involves you editing a file in notebad and setting something to true.
2) You can use this. I've never used it, but one of the features is enabling the dev console, so that would get you there to (w/ other added benefits.)
3) You coooooould also unpack and open the project in ren'py's SDK, but I don't see why you do that when the above options are preferable.
I used method (2).
I was aLittle confused initially.
I enabled console.
I opened console.
I pasted this bit in console - hide screen qmenu
I closed console.
BUT it did work.
It is like a different game without the bottom menu UI -much nicer.
Thanks.
I was aLittle confused initially.
I enabled console.
I opened console.
I pasted this bit in console - hide screen qmenu
I closed console.
BUT it did work.
It is like a different game without the bottom menu UI -much nicer.
Thanks.
Probably not. Based on last dev update they just started working on the felicia date at the end of november. It is not reasonable to expect them to work at an increased pace and finish it during holiday season. There have been no estimates by the developers themselves but January or February would be my best guess unless they are adding even more scenes in the update.
- Apr 11, 2019
- 89
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This is so sad, Alexa! Play Despacito .
.