VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[sunaboz]

I wish Hana could hear Edwin's thoughts, I bet the following scene would be hilarious:

Spoiler: Edwin guessing Hana's age

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[LazyKeks]

Thee of the five main heroines are involved directly in a sex "competition", where the winner will get their wish granted.
Two of the heroines are not directly involved with this, with one of them being unconnected to the brothel altogether.

You cannot avoid sexual contact with the competitors during the course of the club part of the game, although you're free to ignore their personal story lines which involves getting to know the characters and further sexual contact. However, if you skip ALL of those routes, I'm afraid you won't be left with much content wise and the club story line will likely fail to hook you and fall flat.



This is not a cuckold game. It doesn't explore the feelings of being cheating on or wallow in any of the misery that's the hallmark of the NTR genre. You can even indirectly swing each week's competition in favor of a favorite girl, keeping them out of punishment games and effectively keeping them to yourself.

However, on the topic of immersion: the game expects you to empathize with its characters. Otherwise, what would be the point?

If you want to completely avoid experiencing any negative emotions in a story, I would avoid our project.

Once upon a time I played the game "Saya no Uta". In terms of the plot, I quite liked it. So I am not particularly tormented by dark stories. Well, if specifically about this game. I don't see a problem with strangers getting fucked in the competition for the prize. Moreover, I think they will not converge as couples in the future (but this is the author's business). But I will still try the game in the future. Thanks for the tips.

 

[TD1900]

But I will still try the game in the future. Thanks for the tips.

Thanks for giving our project a chance. I really hope you'll enjoy it.
Just don't say you weren't warned.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

TD1900 since you are here (if you can answer). Is there any chance of helping poor Lucy getting her kid into a good school? I kinda feel bad for her having to become a prostitute at the Carnation club because of that slime ball Isaak.

I get the feeling he won't even fullfill his part of the deal and let her son enter the school after she whored herself to the club members while he fapped watching it.

 

[LazyKeks]

Thanks for giving our project a chance. I really hope you'll enjoy it.
Just don't say you weren't warned.

Don't worry, even if I don't like the game, I will not do dirty tricks.

 

[TD1900]

TD1900 since you are here (if you can answer). Is there any chance of helping poor Lucy getting her kid into a good school? I kinda feel bad for her having to become a prostitute at the Carnation club because of that slime ball Isaak.

I get the feeling he won't even fullfill his part of the deal and let her son enter the school after she whored herself to the club members while he fapped watching it.

Maaaaybe is all I can say. Her whole character mainly exists to introduce the club and build up Veronica, but we did expand on her the update before last and she will keep popping up in various scenes too.

 

[m4pII]

I have a question.
I haven't played the new update yet.

Will MC's mother be somehow involved in the club's affairs in the future? Will her role be more significant?

Or will the role of her character be limited to such a moral compass for the MC?

 

[MoarDakka123]

I haven't exactly counted the responses, but on the topic of Killian...

I seem to be valuing friendship far less than other people here. I mean, while it's nice to know that I could probably call him if I ever needed to hide a dead hooker (which will never happen), if he called me on that same subject (which probably could happen), I would actually call police. Am I being crazy? I mean, a lot of people in here seem to be suggesting that the fact he's totally got your back somehow excuses the rest of his actions.

Well, I just don't see it that way, and to be honest, I find it kind of spooky that so many people in here apparently do. I mean, tribalism is pretty bad in the grand scheme of things, you know?

 

[Walnutt]

I haven't exactly counted the responses, but on the topic of Killian...

I seem to be valuing friendship far less than other people here. I mean, while it's nice to know that I could probably call him if I ever needed to hide a dead hooker (which will never happen), if he called me on that same subject (which probably could happen), I would actually call police. Am I being crazy? I mean, a lot of people in here seem to be suggesting that the fact he's totally got your back somehow excuses the rest of his actions.

Well, I just don't see it that way, and to be honest, I find it kind of spooky that so many people in here apparently do. I mean, tribalism is pretty bad in the grand scheme of things, you know?

If he ever kills someone, I'm sure more people will have something to say. As of right now, he hasn't done anything close to that. He's bad in his own ways, but he's not a murderer.

 

[STkems]

I haven't exactly counted the responses, but on the topic of Killian...

I seem to be valuing friendship far less than other people here. I mean, while it's nice to know that I could probably call him if I ever needed to hide a dead hooker (which will never happen), if he called me on that same subject (which probably could happen), I would actually call police. Am I being crazy? I mean, a lot of people in here seem to be suggesting that the fact he's totally got your back somehow excuses the rest of his actions.

Well, I just don't see it that way, and to be honest, I find it kind of spooky that so many people in here apparently do. I mean, tribalism is pretty bad in the grand scheme of things, you know?

Condemning your friends for their faults as though you yourself have none is also pretty bad. It's not like Ian is raping unwilling women or killing people; they signed up for this.
Could he treat women better in general? Yes. Is he doing the job he's supposed to do at the Carnations Club? Also yes.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

I haven't exactly counted the responses, but on the topic of Killian...

I seem to be valuing friendship far less than other people here. I mean, while it's nice to know that I could probably call him if I ever needed to hide a dead hooker (which will never happen), if he called me on that same subject (which probably could happen), I would actually call police. Am I being crazy? I mean, a lot of people in here seem to be suggesting that the fact he's totally got your back somehow excuses the rest of his actions.

Well, I just don't see it that way, and to be honest, I find it kind of spooky that so many people in here apparently do. I mean, tribalism is pretty bad in the grand scheme of things, you know?

You are not the only one. Killian acts pretty much as a scumbag when inside the Carnation club. I say this is the influence of his uncle who is another two face piece of shit who gets off on ruining women's lives and forcing them into their "corruption competition".

But maybe Edwin can influence him again like he did on the past, at least that is what Ian's mother Grace believes he can do.

Condemning your friends for their faults as though you yourself have none is also pretty bad. It's not like Ian is raping unwilling women or killing people; they signed up for this.
Could he treat women better in general? Yes. Is he doing the job he's supposed to do at the Carnations Club? Also yes.

They were all coerced into this position by members of the club, one way or the other.

* Isaak blackmailed Lucy into accepting entering this place in exchange for her son's education.
* Veronica got her gym business sabotaged by Samson until she saw no other way than won whatever prize she is promised to save it.
* Rosalind was sent by Killian himself to have sex with Edwin in exchange for the job.
* Felicia seems to be the only exception so far but we don't really know much about her motivations.

So yeah i believe we can condemn Killian's act during the game.

 

[STkems]

You are not the only one. Killian acts pretty much as a scumbag when inside the Carnation club. I say this is the influence of his uncle who is another two face piece of shit who gets off on ruining women's lives and forcing them into their "corruption competition".

But maybe Edwin can influence him again like he did on the past, at least that is what Ian's mother Grace believes he can do.


They were all coerced into this position by members of the club, one way or the other.

* Isaak blackmailed Lucy into accepting entering this place in exchange for her son's education.
* Veronica got her gym business sabotaged by Samson until she saw no other way than won whatever prize she is promised to save it.
* Rosalind was sent by Killian himself to have sex with Edwin in exchange for the job.
* Felicia seems to be the only exception so far but we don't really know much about her motivations.

So yeah i believe we can condemn Killian's act during the game.

I think there's a difference between seeing the faults of your friends or disagreeing with some of their actions and between abandoning years upon years of friendship because of such issues. In the end, the only difference between the people in this thread when discussing Ian seems to be, at least to me, where they draw the line and declare an action irredeemable.

 

[MoarDakka123]

If he ever kills someone, I'm sure more people will have something to say. As of right now, he hasn't done anything close to that. He's bad in his own ways, but he's not a murderer.

Missing the point by quite a lot. That was an example of taking something to its logical extreme in order to illustrate a point or a flaw in one's thinking.

Condemning your friends for their faults as though you yourself have none is also pretty bad. It's not like Ian is raping unwilling women or killing people; they signed up for this.
Could he treat women better in general? Yes. Is he doing the job he's supposed to do at the Carnations Club? Also yes.

Also missing it, but not quite as badly. I won't go too deep into the "they signed up for this" comment because it betrays a lack of empathy that I don't really know how to deal with. Suffice to say the girls are all there due to being manipulated, be it through sabotage, coercion, or blackmail. Felicia is the only one with any hope of not being completely fucked outside of the club, and as far as I can tell, her facade is still up.

But I in no way suggested I have no faults, and that logic makes zero sense in the first place. Do I need to have no faults to be allowed to judge others? Does Killian need to kill and/or rape people for me to have permission you judge him? Of course not, that would be silly. In fact, I will go a step further and say it is your duty to condemn a friend's actions if you think they're truly in the wrong... You know, verbally. That's coming from a Finn, and believe you me, we respect your personal space.

You know, your last line annoyed me enough to just straight-up invoke Godwin's Law: even Nazis said they were "just doing their job". That's not an excuse. That's textbook

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stuff. Except Killian isn't even just doing it just on orders, he's gleefully participating.

God, I need to stop writing these after bed time.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

Does he treat the mc like a friend? Yes. Has he ever betrayed him? No. For me with anyone no matter what sex Is how you treat me. Killian has been nothing but a true friend to the mc no matter his faults. I think the Mina fans are just hating to ease their own guilt.

 

[Walnutt]

Missing the point by quite a lot. That was an example of taking something to its logical extreme in order to illustrate a point or a flaw in one's thinking.

There isn't a flaw in my thinking lmao. For all the shitty things Killian has done, I'm not convinced he deserves to be thrown away. It's a matter of opinion.
And I only commented on your extreme example because it has no relevance here.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Does he treat the mc like a friend? Yes. Has he ever betrayed him? No. For me with anyone no matter what sex Is how you treat me. Killian has been nothing but a true friend to the mc no matter his faults. I think the Mina fans are just hating to ease their own guilt.

Way to miss the point. In case it wasn't obvious from my previous posts Veronica is my favorite between the possible love interests, followed by Hana.

Him being a friend to Edwin doesn't excuse activally participating into the acts of humiliation and degradation those women are forced to endure. I could understand working there, but on his own entering into the bukkake line just to go "fuck yeah take it you whore"? That is too much.
In a way he is acting like the assholes who used to bully and beat him when he was younger.

 

[SanaeS]

Way to miss the point. In case it wasn't obvious from my previous posts Veronica is my favorite between the possible love interests, followed by Hana.

Him being a friend to Edwin doesn't excuse activally participating into the acts of humiliation and degradation those women are forced to endure. I could understand working there, but on his own entering into the bukkake line just to go "fuck yeah take it you whore"? That is too much.
In a way he is acting like the assholes who used to bully and beat him when he was younger.

I guess his bullies eventually grew up. He never did.

 

[MoarDakka123]

I think there's a difference between seeing the faults of your friends or disagreeing with some of their actions and between abandoning years upon years of friendship because of such issues. In the end, the only difference between the people in this thread when discussing Ian seems to be, at least to me, where they draw the line and declare an action irredeemable.

That's part of what I don't understand. What does it matter if it's years and years of friendship? That's just

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fallacy at work. By all means, try and confront him, talk about it. But if it doesn't work, what do you do? I know you seem to be at least somewhat okay with the stuff he's engaging in, but imagine for a second that you aren't okay with it. If you can't, try to imagine him doing something you are not okay with. Like, not at all. What do you do if he insists on not changing? Do you try to maintain your relationship? Do you walk away? Do you, for some bizarre reason, support him in doing the things you strongly think he should not be doing in the first place?

And even then, you've barely had contact with him for the past few years.

There isn't a flaw in my thinking lmao. For all the shitty things Killian has done, I'm not convinced he deserves to be thrown away. It's a matter of opinion.
And I only commented on your extreme example because it has no relevance here.

If you don't see the relevance then I think there is indeed a short-coming in your way thinking. That's no crime though, and I'll happily clear up whatever link you seem to think is missing. You don't need to agree with my point either, but the fact that you're missing it completely, and so not addressing it, is obviously not ideal for the purposes of discussion.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

Way to miss the point. In case it wasn't obvious from my previous posts Veronica is my favorite between the possible love interests, followed by Hana.

Him being a friend to Edwin doesn't excuse activally participating into the acts of humiliation and degradation those women are forced to endure. I could understand working there, but on his own entering into the bukkake line just to go "fuck yeah take it you whore"? That is too much.
In a way he is acting like the assholes who used to bully and beat him when he was younger.

I wasn't referring to just you but the collective of Killian haters. I didn't quote you because my statement wasn't just towards you.

Regardless how offensive people believe his behavior is. It is all consensual and has no baring on his friendship with the mc in my eyes. Two separate things

 

[Walnutt]

If you don't see the relevance then I think there is indeed a short-coming in your way thinking. That's no crime though, and I'll happily clear up whatever link you seem to think is missing. You don't need to agree with my point either, but the fact that you're missing it completely, and so not addressing it, is obviously not ideal for the purposes of discussion.

You think Killian is bad because of the things he's done and you can't understand why people here aren't ditching him as a friend. You made that point pretty clear. I say the "if he killed someone" comment doesn't have relevance because this is a matter of opinion on what constitutes ending a friendship and that event never happened.

If I did miss your point then please do tell me what it was. I enjoy these conversations