VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[ffive]

Also, when you visit Kat, she tells you she keeps to herself because they judge women different. So Felicia coming into that lion's den is really a personal affront to everything she believes and built in the existence of the Club.

Kat is like one of those conservative feminists who spent their whole life thinking the only way for them to have some power is to put up with the men taking the top spots, and putting up with that despite thinking themselves so much smarter and better... only to then see some young woman who "doesn't know any better" just come in and show that no, it absolutely didn't have to be that way. It's personal because it carries the possibility that it's Kat who's been the dumb one all her life.

 

[Ungawa]

Kat is like one of those conservative feminists who spent their whole life thinking the only way for them to have some power is to put up with the men taking the top spots, and putting up with that despite thinking themselves so much smarter and better... only to then see some young woman who "doesn't know any better" just come in and show that no, it absolutely didn't have to be that way. It's personal because it carries the possibility that it's Kat who's been the dumb one all her life.

I disagree. More that Felicia and Kat are foils to one another. In a world of mirrors, both reflect different choices and outcomes in a situation.

Felicia can bring about what she wants with charm and sexuality.

Kat brings about what she wants with pain and calculated decisions.

What they put into the story is intrigue. As TD stated before, Kat is the most honest sadist and quickly capable of analyzing and securing a weak point. Felicia doesn't have to try if you look into her in Week... 3? 2? Where she knows what Edwin wants. You want her dominant, she can be that or she can sus out and mother you just like Rosalind and play to that.

Kat isn't dumb and even if she's lost a bit, she'll fight to keep what's hers. And that's the club. What she says over and over to Felicia is that you can't think it's a picnic. And she's right. But to the both of them, they have something to prove.

In a sense, it's a clash of ideals. And you know that those have to be proven or disproven with experience. Not that it doesn't have to be that way, but you don't find out until that clash in seeing what's stronger or weaker since what worked for you continues to happen.

 

[mytest111]

Can this game run in sandboxie?
It crashes for me.

 

[ename144]

Correct me if I'm wrong but he hasn't even seen Felicia's hideout where the most important scenes happen?

AFAIK, Felicia will always take the MC to her rooftop garden of solitude after the interview with Elias in Week 2. What changes if the MC is on her path is that she actually explains her motivations and talks about the old art school closing.

Patrons aren't equal, there's hierarchy there.

Edwin: "...I thought that everyone was equal brothers around here."
Samson: "Ha, you thought wrong, kid! You put any two shitheads together and poof! You got a hierarchy on your hands."

Samson and that slimy teacher are at the bottom, Abel is at the very top.

There is also that ambassador who licks other's cum, how could anyone shake is hand is beyond me and yet they do it. There is no kink shaming there.

Also Kat somehow hasnt lost her respect despite this:

To be fair, only Isaak and Samson were present to see Veronica go to town on Kathleen.

That said, Kathleen is something of an interesting case. As others have noted, Harper tells the MC most patrons don't respect her: they play along with her because she's an owner of the Club. In other words, Kat skates by on their respect for Chuck and/or August. I think that's a big part of why she's so gung-ho about Abel's experiments - she sees it as a way to shake up the status quo and carve out her own empire on her terms. If other people get their feathers ruffled in the process, well... sadist.

Still, for Felicia the practical upshot of the current story is that the Club can be a useful framework for artificially boosting her respect if she manages to join it. Even if other patrons badmouth her in private, they'll likely still play ball with her and that's what she needs from them.

How can she monetize this sort of "connections" / "influence"?

"Hey fellow patron, I see you're in a pissing match with [Person X]. I know a surefire way to get his goat, and I'd be happy to tell you if you just take care of a few things for me in return."

There are a bunch of different variations on that theme, and obviously anything I say is ultimately speculation, but this is the simplest way to interpret Felicia's words. Being a member of the Club will give her access to influential people within the right circles, AND give them a reason to trust that she'll deliver on her promises. Once she's shown she can get results, she'll probably be able to expand her services to things like collecting intel or staging embarrassing events directly, so she won't be reliant on her current knowledge forever.

Is this a solid enough plan to persuade you she's a well written character? I suspect not. But I find it reasonable given what we know of her and the patrons.

 

[Ottoeight]

Kat is like one of those conservative feminists who spent their whole life thinking the only way for them to have some power is to put up with the men taking the top spots, and putting up with that despite thinking themselves so much smarter and better... only to then see some young woman who "doesn't know any better" just come in and show that no, it absolutely didn't have to be that way. It's personal because it carries the possibility that it's Kat who's been the dumb one all her life.

Kat was born into wealth and raised up as someone who was suppose to rule over the mass: she never had to put up with anyone, except her sister, I guess.

I disagree. More that Felicia and Kat are foils to one another. In a world of mirrors, both reflect different choices and outcomes in a situation.

Felicia can bring about what she wants with charm and sexuality.

Kat brings about what she wants with pain and calculated decisions.

What they put into the story is intrigue. As TD stated before, Kat is the most honest sadist and quickly capable of analyzing and securing a weak point. Felicia doesn't have to try if you look into her in Week... 3? 2? Where she knows what Edwin wants. You want her dominant, she can be that or she can sus out and mother you just like Rosalind and play to that.

Kat isn't dumb and even if she's lost a bit, she'll fight to keep what's hers. And that's the club. What she says over and over to Felicia is that you can't think it's a picnic. And she's right. But to the both of them, they have something to prove.

In a sense, it's a clash of ideals. And you know that those have to be proven or disproven with experience. Not that it doesn't have to be that way, but you don't find out until that clash in seeing what's stronger or weaker since what worked for you continues to happen.

Kat is from a wealthy and influential family, and Felicia is from a family of labourers from the rural South.

Now... just think what the Old Bitch might think of Felicia as a patron of arts and young artists.

 

[ffive]

Kat was born into wealth and raised up as someone who was suppose to rule over the mass: she never had to put up with anyone, except her sister, I guess.

I don't know; Kat didn't have any real power herself, being at best "her husband's wife", and what she has now (in terms of being able to exercise some actual power) is thanks to the hand me down that was her sister's venture.

 

[bamachine]

I know this is not setup as a harem game. I just hope in the end, we get a throuple between the MC, Hana and Mina. I can be friends with the three Carnations, besides I already creampied all three, so if I can help them with their problems, I am fine not being in a relationship with them.

 

[ReservoirCreature]

Damn, someone has actually heard of Running Wild!

 

[Nulldev]

Can this game run in sandboxie?
It crashes for me.

I use windows sandbox and works.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Ungawa]

Kat was born into wealth and raised up as someone who was suppose to rule over the mass: she never had to put up with anyone, except her sister, I guess.




Kat is from a wealthy and influential family, and Felicia is from a family of labourers from the rural South.

Now... just think what the Old Bitch might think of Felicia as a patron of arts and young artists.

I don't know; Kat didn't have any real power herself, being at best "her husband's wife", and what she has now (in terms of being able to exercise some actual power) is thanks to the hand me down that was her sister's venture.

Well, I try to always remember that everyone is in relationship to each other in some way. If you compare and contrast characters, you look at what one says and how the other is the opposite. So yes, Otto, that's correct. If Felicia is from the poor side of society climbing up, Kat was born into it. But I'm not sure how she feels on the arts. More that the story hasn't given us anything on that side. What works better is what's already there. Husbands? Both are inept with Kat having a loving husband she can gently push in the direction she wants while Felicia has a stubborn one that isn't swayed out of their issues.

And while Felicia climbed up by herself, Kat had her sadism to corrupt what she touched.

And before we say "Oh, it was Elias" don't forget that Felicia has gained influence in aristocracy through her own influence. But that's as a trophy wife. Now she's got higher ambitions which require more than that would allow. Thus her ambitions are moving in a new direction.

 

[sunaboz]

(...) To be fair, only Isaak and Samson were present to see Veronica go to town on Kathleen. (...)

True, although I doubt someone like Samson (who like Jim has hots for Kat and likes to comment how sexy she is) would keep his mouth shut.

BTW, besides that hierarchy quote Samson also said (about Dalia):

"Nah, she hangs around the more well-to-do members. Never seen the Empress Whore slum it with a pleb like myself."

(...) Harper tells the MC most patrons don't respect her (...)

Half is not most and Harper is just a whore so anything she says must be taken with a grain of salt because:

a) She's not privy to most conversations / businesses Kat has.

b) Most of the disrespectful things they say about Kat they don't say to her face and they say it while they have their dicks in Harper's mouth bragging how much better they are.

She thinks the old, dead fucks of the club would take her less seriously. Truth be told, half of them don't see her as an equal to begin with..."

And to be honest dick measurement is common among the patrons and they are not equal to begin with so what Harper said seems like a platitude to me. Samson and Isaak know they're not equal while people like Abel and Chuck think they're the top dog.

Sure, people like Otto might not think highly of her (then again Otto doesn't respect Chuck either), some might joke about her (Samson or Jim for example) but in the end they all shut up when she speaks during exhibition (Chuck being the exception). There is a reason why Abel cooperates with her or why Warren is most loyal to her (AFAWK) or why she's one of the co-owners of the club for as long as she is.

I guess that Edwin's comments during their BDSM sex has made almost everyone believe his words but the fact that Kathleen didn't seem fazed by them (even after she returned to her senses) suggests that they're farther from the truth than most might think.

tl;dr
IMO Kathleen is underestimated by most people here. Sure, she doesn't have Chuck's or Abel's accomplishments (and who does?) but she's a top-tier manager with maxed persuasion and manipulation techniques. Also:

"Just a middle-aged woman, over the hill... the wife of an elected official, playing with money your father made... running a charity made by your sister."

Eh... Probably most patrons there are as high as they are thanks to their parent's wealth (Chuck being one of the rare exceptions) and making a charity is nothing to be too proud of if you ask me.

 

[Ottoeight]

IMO Kathleen is underestimated by most people here. Sure, she doesn't have Chuck's or Abel's accomplishments (and who does?) but she's a top-tier manager with maxed persuasion and manipulation techniques. Also:

I do not underestimate her: the Exhibition is her toy.

She's the only one who would crush the Carnations just because she would enjoy it. August only cares for the "business", and Chuck is more interested in his own "games", and the Exhibition is Kathleen's game.

 

[Bueno]

The story is becoming a bit cluttered. I wish the focus would be back on the carnations progress with the club.

 

[ename144]

True, although I doubt someone like Samson (who like Jim has hots for Kat and likes to comment how sexy she is) would keep his mouth shut.

I've no doubt Samson would talk, but most of the patrons didn't see it themselves. I think there will always be a certain level of urban legend about the incident; Kathleen would have problems if something like that happening routinely.

Half is not most and Harper is just a whore so anything she says must be taken with a grain of salt because:

a) She's not privy to most conversations / businesses Kat has.

b) Most of the disrespectful things they say about Kat they don't say to her face and they say it while they have their dicks in Harper's mouth bragging how much better they are. And to be honest dick measurement is common among the patrons and they are not equal to begin with so what Harper said seems like a platitude to me. Samson and Isaak know they're not equal while people like Abel and Chuck think they're the top dog.

Harper may be a whore, but that's no reason to discount her opinion. As Rosalind notes, people will often feel free to talk around whores, and Dalia seems to think Harper is both a smart and professional whore. If Harp thinks half the patrons don't see Kat as an equal, I weigh that insight heavily. You are right, however, that Harper says "half" rather than "most."

Sure, people like Otto might not think highly of her (then again Otto doesn't respect Chuck either), some might joke about her (Samson or Jim for example) but in the end they all shut up when she speaks during exhibition (Chuck being the exception). There is a reason why Abel cooperates with her or why Warren is most loyal to her (AFAWK) or why she's one of the co-owners of the club for as long as she is.

I guess that Edwin's comments during their BDSM sex has made almost everyone believe his words but the fact that Kathleen didn't seem fazed by them (even after she returned to her senses) suggests that they're farther from the truth than most might think.

tl;dr
IMO Kathleen is underestimated by most people here. Sure, she doesn't have Chuck's or Abel's accomplishments (and who does?) but she's a top-tier manager with maxed persuasion and manipulation techniques. Also:

"Just a middle-aged woman, over the hill... the wife of an elected official, playing with money your father made... running a charity made by your sister."

Eh... Probably most patrons there are as high as they are thanks to their parent's wealth (Chuck being one of the rare exceptions) and making a charity is nothing to be too proud of if you ask me.

I put no weight on the MC's tirade during his recent scene with Kathleen. I base my opinion on what we've seen in game and heard from sources I judge reliable. It's true that people like Samson and Jim obey Kathleen, but is that a sign they ultimately respect her, or a sign they respect Chuck (or August) and know he would take umbrage at directly defying Kat? I say it's more the latter. That doesn't mean they see Kathleen no differently than one of the house girls (there are degrees to this), just that she wouldn't be able to operate the Club - as it currently is - without the support of her partners.

Abel's cooperation is different since he clearly has his own agenda that Kat is helping with, but we don't yet know if that's a sign of Abel respecting her or simply a case of her being useful to him.

Warren DOES seem quite loyal to her, but I think that's because they're very closely aligned in their outlook. She likes the way he indulges his id and doesn't mind if he's rough on the girls, while he appreciates the way she makes things simple and fun for him. I'd say he respects her in his own way, but it's from a different viewpoint than the patrons would be looking at Kat.

 

[Step dad]

I searched a lot guys. Can you please share where the gallery unlock+ cheat mod of android is?

 

[Turret]

Abel's cooperation is different since he clearly has his own agenda that Kat is helping with, but we don't yet know if that's a sign of Abel respecting her or simply a case of her being useful to him.

While it is not completely clear at he moment, I think Abel and Sophia see Kath as 98% being useful and 2% grudging respect. We see during several scenes, esp. the home invasion, that Abel and Sophia dislike all 3 leaders of the PC club. Chuck the most, but Kath also:"She has Chuck´s nasty disposition, but none of his achievements(...) she is comparatively harmless".
Still despite the clear loathing of Kath and the other leaders, Abel gives Kath a chiffered warning two times, if she really knows what she wants to do rather early in the game.

 

[Leinad_Sevla]

This update was wow. I mean we know everyone is fucked in the game someway or the other.

Spoiler: Victoria Past

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Spoiler: Update in general

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I haven´t played the recent update (I´m almost done with the previous one) but I read your spoiler about Victoria and I have to ask: what is revealed about her past is even more shocking than her doing porn? Because the MC already knows she was a porn actress, so there´s something even worse about it?

 

[Ottoeight]

I haven´t played the recent update (I´m almost done with the previous one) but I read your spoiler about Victoria and I have to ask: what is revealed about her past is even more shocking than her doing porn? Because the MC already knows she was a porn actress, so there´s something even worse about it?

Bro, why are you asking for more spoilers?

 

[FalconLover420]

I haven´t played the recent update (I´m almost done with the previous one) but I read your spoiler about Victoria and I have to ask: what is revealed about her past is even more shocking than her doing porn? Because the MC already knows she was a porn actress, so there´s something even worse about it?

Play the game especially the update and all should be revealed

 

[crastock]

How do I even reject mina? The game bugs and locks me out of all progression, like is there even a way to get the scene where you change your mind with her?