VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[ename144]

But as Otto mentioned in his post, even quality games will suffer if you overdo the update intervall. H.H. Gossen and his law strike again in these cases. Diminishing returns.
And a year or more is too long even for quality games. The otakus might not care or think it just barely acceptable, but the playerbase beyond them does care for several reasons.
Anyway, I too look forward to play th new update when it comes out.

It's easy to say this, but I don't see a lot of support for that thesis. There are a number of popular games on this site with long development times, and no shortage of disregarded games with short development times. The only real example I can think of where a long development cycle crippled interest in a game required comically long pauses, and even that one's debatable since the game was also stuck in an endless series of remakes of old content - a phenomenon which I think has a much clearer impact on fan (dis)interest.

Obviously long development time is always going to be a negative when it comes to fan satisfaction. Still, if I had to rate it against other traits like dev/community interaction, transparency, story/character progression and general quality of the product, I'd put it at the bottom of the list every time. Interest in the game may hibernate during the long winter, but it will pop back good as new - as long as the eventual update delivers the goods. Granted, quality is very subjective, but then again it's not like we can calculate a specific development time that's "too long." It's all very nebulous when you start trying to assign cause and effect.

And personally, I don't even think it really matters. If TD & GIL think they'll deliver a better product by splitting the work up into smaller chunks, I'd say that's more than sufficient reason to support the split. Trying to turn short dev cycles into some sort of global truism is just muddying the water. IMHO, of course.

 

[DarkLords00]

It's easy to say this, but I don't see a lot of support for that thesis. There are a number of popular games on this site with long development times, and no shortage of disregarded games with short development times. The only real example I can think of where a long development cycle crippled interest in a game required comically long pauses, and even that one's debatable since the game was also stuck in an endless series of remakes of old content - a phenomenon which I think has a much clearer impact on fan (dis)interest.

Obviously long development time is always going to be a negative when it comes to fan satisfaction. Still, if I had to rate it against other traits like dev/community interaction, transparency, story/character progression and general quality of the product, I'd put it at the bottom of the list every time. Interest in the game may hibernate during the long winter, but it will pop back good as new - as long as the eventual update delivers the goods. Granted, quality is very subjective, but then again it's not like we can calculate a specific development time that's "too long." It's all very nebulous when you start trying to assign cause and effect.

And personally, I don't even think it really matters. If TD & GIL think they'll deliver a better product by splitting the work up into smaller chunks, I'd say that's more than sufficient reason to support the split. Trying to turn short dev cycles into some sort of global truism is just muddying the water. IMHO, of course.

I'm kind of the same mindset on this. Altough it is true waay too long development time may cause a loss of interest with the playerbase I think it takes way more than that for people to lose faith in developers. (I.E: Radio shutdown or very lack of transparecy between the developer and their patreons/players)

Say what you want about the certain waaay too "big headed"(ego incarnate ) developer from that "mainstream college game" but I'll give him credit where credit it's due and say that in all the years since I follow that game I don't remember him miss a weekly update and I don't believe it is his long updates that kills interest in the game but his obsession with his own game and how could he expand it far beyond what he intillay planned due to the enormous positive reception it got.

I don't believe people should worry about this game falling in that trap. As of now, all the important characters in the story are treated with the importance and respect needed in the story so far and no support charcters have come to steal/overshadow the spotlight due to fan popularity or cause of the developers had a change of mind and decided to start expanding the roster waay too broad for the playerbase.

This types of problems are the ones more likely to kill interest/investment in a game while the other situations just merely damages it a bit or can be mitigated when a new update relases. Due to the nature and transaparecy of TD and GIL I can't belive there will be an issue in the future of this game (story and characterwise at the very least) and despit having spoken against it I the decision to split the update CAN be the more positive one for all the parties involved and truly hope it will be the best one for the devs.

 

[Turret]

It's easy to say this, but I don't see a lot of support for that thesis. There are a number of popular games on this site with long development times, and no shortage of disregarded games with short development times. The only real example I can think of where a long development cycle crippled interest in a game required comically long pauses, and even that one's debatable since the game was also stuck in an endless series of remakes of old content - a phenomenon which I think has a much clearer impact on fan (dis)interest.

Obviously long development time is always going to be a negative when it comes to fan satisfaction. Still, if I had to rate it against other traits like dev/community interaction, transparency, story/character progression and general quality of the product, I'd put it at the bottom of the list every time. Interest in the game may hibernate during the long winter, but it will pop back good as new - as long as the eventual update delivers the goods. Granted, quality is very subjective, but then again it's not like we can calculate a specific development time that's "too long." It's all very nebulous when you start trying to assign cause and effect.

And personally, I don't even think it really matters. If TD & GIL think they'll deliver a better product by splitting the work up into smaller chunks, I'd say that's more than sufficient reason to support the split. Trying to turn short dev cycles into some sort of global truism is just muddying the water. IMHO, of course.

I'm kind of the same mindset on this. Altough it is true waay too long development time may cause a loss of interest with the playerbase I think it takes way more than that for people to lose faith in developers. (I.E: Radio shutdown or very lack of transparecy between the developer and their patreons/players)

Say what you want about the certain waaay too "big headed"(ego incarnate ) developer from that "mainstream college game" but I'll give him credit where credit it's due and say that in all the years since I follow that game I don't remember him miss a weekly update and I don't believe it is his long updates that kills interest in the game but his obsession with his own game and how could he expand it far beyond what he intillay planned due to the enormous positive reception it got.

I don't believe people should worry about this game falling in that trap. As of now, all the important characters in the story are treated with the importance and respect needed in the story so far and no support charcters have come to steal/overshadow the spotlight due to fan popularity or cause of the developers had a change of mind and decided to start expanding the roster waay too broad for the playerbase.

This types of problems are the ones more likely to kill interest/investment in a game while the other situations just merely damages it a bit or can be mitigated when a new update relases. Due to the nature and transaparecy of TD and GIL I can't belive there will be an issue in the future of this game (story and characterwise at the very least) and despit having spoken against it I the decision to split the update CAN be the more positive one for all the parties involved and truly hope it will be the best one for the devs.

Hi ename, Darklords!

I see and partly even agree with your arguments and you might have seen my point of the interplay of consistency, trustworthiness, content size/quality and update intervall length on what fans and customers are willing to accept when it comes to waiting times.
I know you cannot compare 1:1 AVN development with real life logistics, but I can tell you from work experience there are definite "too long", "too inconsistent quality" and "not trustworthy enough" points for any type of goods and customers/suppliers. These points vary in time span until reached due to several influences for each thing, but they exist.

While TD and GIL have a lot more leeway here than many other developers due to their humbleness, consistency, quality and track record, I am sure they made the right decision for PC and it´s further development to update now.

 

[Kameri]

We got any release date yet?

 

[TD1900]

We got any release date yet?

Like usual, it'll be announced when we're a few days from closing on the image work.

Which will likely be before the next dev diary is supposed to land, but we'll see. We have the scene that we were planning to end on remaining, but I also want to squeeze something in earlier than I might've now that we have indeed decided to split the update.

 

[Kameri]

Like usual, it'll be announced when we're a few days from closing on the image work.

Which will likely be before the next dev diary is supposed to land, but we'll see. We have the scene that we were planning to end on remaining, but I also want to squeeze something in earlier than I might've now that we have indeed decided to split the update.

Thanks TD, i appreciate it.

 

[aliy]

Can someone who has played all paths send their save files please
I've played up to chapter 4 update 4 I think or 3 and wanted to continue then realized I've lost all my saves, and as you know the game is quite long especially if you're like me and want to see all the content so replaying even skipping is gonna take a while

 

[Leinad_Sevla]

Hi!
You say it yourself, while you would wait, you are also happy to get an update earlier. We might be among the big fans, but let us think about the players/patrons who are casual fans or fencesitters, an update taking over a year for them it would be too long. It would hurt the game development seriously. Even DPC, who is an outlier when it comes to AVN success, is banking more on his existing fanbase with his longer and longer taking update intervalls than attracting new players.
I have kicked BaDik from my harddrive quite a time ago and do not miss it at all. It would be very different with PC, since we are onboard for the various storylines in this crime game with erotica in combination with the great artwork.

As I wrote above, the coming update will be meaty since it is already in the typical range of PC updates, it won´t be a "short one" as some players seem to fear. And we already had updates without an Exhibition taking place in it, besides the events outside the Exhibitions normally are more intriguing than the "Sex BDSM Olympics" itself.

While it sucks to wait a long time for an update, any fan of these games should understand why they take such a long time to make. As the plot develops and more LIs and story branches are introduced, the Devs will take more time because it obviously becomes more laborious to do them. This game is also done with Honey Select, which allows for great animations, which is a great bonus for the sex scenes, so the Devs will (and should) take advantage of that. As the game progresses and the LIs get introduced and their relationships develops, they have to make more sex scenes for the different scenarios and paths. So players should be aware that these games will likely have increasingly bigger update times. Not to mention that a lot of these Devs (I don´t know if that´s the case with the PC devs in particular) have lives and jobs outside of making these games, so they might not even be working on them full-time.
As for your comparison with DPC and BadIk, did you stop playing it because of the update time or did you just lost interested in the story? I still play that game and I´m still interested in the story, although it isn´t in my top3 anymore.
I also am aware that the update that we´re going to get will be big as it is, since the goal was to make the Exhibition in full and then release all of it, so I´m not worried about that.
In fact, the biggest reason why I wanted the full update was to get the Exhibition out of the way so we can focus on the relationships outside of it. My favourite parts are the interactions with Hana and Mina, those are what I´m waiting for.

What it matter is what TD said, he and Gil think it's better releasing it this way and that's all that should matter to us Fans in my opinion.

While I think I understand what you mean with this, I don´t know if I can agree with it. We´re not just sheep who should just agree with whatever the shepherds decide it´s best. If the Devs think it´s better this way, they´re obviously going to do it that way, us players can´t do anything about that. We can, however, think they are wrong in doing that.

if anyone's familiar with NLT's works, Their current title Symphony of the Serpent they update every 2 weeks but barely any of it is substantial (only adding a few scenes and/or moving the story along by 1%) it leaves you wanting more and a feeling of "its better to just wait until the game is finished"/enough content has been added.

Every update from NLT´s games has 3 lewd scenes, everytime. But that could mean 3 actual sex scenes or 3 scenes with teasing but no action. That´s why I usually let 2/3 months pass between updates, so that I have a decent amount to play.

 

[Discrepancy]

"What it matter is what TD said, he and Gil think it's better releasing it this way and that's all that should matter to us Fans in my opinion."

While I think I understand what you mean with this, I don´t know if I can agree with it. We´re not just sheep who should just agree with whatever the shepherds decide it´s best. If the Devs think it´s better this way, they´re obviously going to do it that way, us players can´t do anything about that. We can, however, think they are wrong in doing that.

What I mostly meant by that is, the decision is done, the devs know what they have atm, they know if the update is gonna be meaty or not, and the decision is finally theirs no point complaining against it.
I say this when they decided against what I wanted. Just don't see the point in arguing against their decision and assume I know better than them about decisions on their game.

 

[Turret]

As for your comparison with DPC and BadIk, did you stop playing it because of the update time or did you just lost interested in the story? I still play that game and I´m still interested in the story, although it isn´t in my top3 anymore.
I also am aware that the update that we´re going to get will be big as it is, since the goal was to make the Exhibition in full and then release all of it, so I´m not worried about that.
In fact, the biggest reason why I wanted the full update was to get the Exhibition out of the way so we can focus on the relationships outside of it. My favourite parts are the interactions with Hana and Mina, those are what I´m waiting for.

Hi!
It was actually a combination of both. As always, personal tastes play a role, I found BaDik´s story ok, esp. early on, later on well, the word downhill plays a role.
But I also did find it not ok enough to wait a year or more for a, flippantly speaking, 5 minutes update, because DPC bloated the game up so much that for most characters the important screentime per update is usually not much longer.

As for your position on the Exhibitions in PC, I see the point and agree with you that the stories/events outside of the Exhibition evenings are the meat of the game. Not that the exhibitions do not have interesting and/or important things going on, too.

 

[Kameri]

Can someone give me a quick summary of what happened in the last update, i kinda forgot a big chunk of it. And please put it in spoiler tag just in case.

 

[ename144]

Can someone give me a quick summary of what happened in the last update, i kinda forgot a big chunk of it. And please put it in spoiler tag just in case.

I'll try.

Spoiler: Chapter 4 Update 5 In a Nutshell

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

There's obviously a lot of character moments I'm ignoring, but I think that's most of the crucial stuff.

 

[captain.rj799999]

is there a fan art thread for pale carnations?

 

[SamualHand]

is there a fan art thread for pale carnations?

Maybe, have you tried search?

 

[fred9320]

,^^^

 

[kacas]

someone know if to play this game on linux you have to do something more than just extract the file?
it is not opening the game here

 

[HDussen]

someone know if to play this game on linux you have to do something more than just extract the file?
it is not opening the game here

Download and extract game
Open directory containing game
Double click PaleCarnations.sh, select "Run"

If the above for some reason does not work, check that the .sh has permission to be executed as a program. If not, change it so it does, either in properties or a terminal.

 

[Leinad_Sevla]

What I mostly meant by that is, the decision is done, the devs know what they have atm, they know if the update is gonna be meaty or not, and the decision is finally theirs no point complaining against it.
I say this when they decided against what I wanted. Just don't see the point in arguing against their decision and assume I know better than them about decisions on their game.

As I had said, it was pretty much what I thought you meant.
So you also had the same opinion as me, you also would have preferred if they released all at once. Obviously they know better about the state of the game (one would hope), they are going to do what they see best, but even if there´s no point in arguing because it won´t change their decision, I will still say I disagree if that´s how I feel about it. I don´t assume I know better than them about their game, but I know how I would prefer things to be done. Can´t wait for the update regardless.

Hi!
It was actually a combination of both. As always, personal tastes play a role, I found BaDik´s story ok, esp. early on, later on well, the word downhill plays a role.
But I also did find it not ok enough to wait a year or more for a, flippantly speaking, 5 minutes update, because DPC bloated the game up so much that for most characters the important screentime per update is usually not much longer.

As for your position on the Exhibitions in PC, I see the point and agree with you that the stories/events outside of the Exhibition evenings are the meat of the game. Not that the exhibitions do not have interesting and/or important things going on, too.

The update times are really long, but most players already invested so many hours into that game (and some even money) that they will stay around until it´s finished. The biggest problem, at least to me, is the huge amount of free roams and mini-games. Some will say you can just not choose them early in the game, but at the time they were simple and very scarce, as opposed to now, so a lot of people chose to play them and now they would have to start again to disable them. Most people don´t want to start again, I know at least I don´t.
And to be fair, if the PC devs didn´t split the update, this game would have taken around a year too. All these big games go that route eventually.
This will probably be "cleaned" by the mods because we´re talking about other games/Devs and that´s probably a no-no here.

The events around the exhibitions are interesting because of the power dynamics and the way that we the players can influence them, but the actual acts during them are very not appealing to me. I usually don´t mind the BDSM stuff, but the fact that they are not doing it willingly and it serves as humiliation does take away a lot of the appeal of those scenes. It´s lewd scenes but they don´t feel lewd to me.
Outside of that, however, the scenes are great. Hana and Mina, can´t get enough of them. I hope there´s a threesome soon.

 

[Discrepancy]

As I had said, it was pretty much what I thought you meant.
So you also had the same opinion as me, you also would have preferred if they released all at once. Obviously they know better about the state of the game (one would hope), they are going to do what they see best, but even if there´s no point in arguing because it won´t change their decision, I will still say I disagree if that´s how I feel about it. I don´t assume I know better than them about their game, but I know how I would prefer things to be done. Can´t wait for the update regardless.



The update times are really long, but most players already invested so many hours into that game (and some even money) that they will stay around until it´s finished. The biggest problem, at least to me, is the huge amount of free roams and mini-games. Some will say you can just not choose them early in the game, but at the time they were simple and very scarce, as opposed to now, so a lot of people chose to play them and now they would have to start again to disable them. Most people don´t want to start again, I know at least I don´t.
And to be fair, if the PC devs didn´t split the update, this game would have taken around a year too. All these big games go that route eventually.
This will probably be "cleaned" by the mods because we´re talking about other games/Devs and that´s probably a no-no here.

The events around the exhibitions are interesting because of the power dynamics and the way that we the players can influence them, but the actual acts during them are very not appealing to me. I usually don´t mind the BDSM stuff, but the fact that they are not doing it willingly and it serves as humiliation does take away a lot of the appeal of those scenes. It´s lewd scenes but they don´t feel lewd to me.
Outside of that, however, the scenes are great. Hana and Mina, can´t get enough of them. I hope there´s a threesome soon.

I'm really bad at explaining things sometimes, wasn't implying that you said you know better than the devs, if it seemed I insinuated that I'm sorry it wasn't my intention.
And I agree 100% with you about the quality taking time you wrote on your previous post.
I love the free roams on BaDik (we shouldn't talk about it here though ) and love them on Pale Carnations too, hope there were more of them.
I really don't like BDSM stuff too, and man from me(and assume you too) that is such a crazy positive about this game, the fact that I love this game so much even it's central theme being something I dislike.

 

[captain.rj799999]

Maybe, have you tried search?

yes but no luck