VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[sunaboz]

(...)
She contradicts herself quite a bit as well, with the love/hate thing about Dr. Van Doren. (...)

Yeah, about that, love is a wrong word, it's more of a worship really. Sophia kisses the ground Abel steps on. Anyway, I assumed that in this instance:

I hate that old man.

she was telling the truth. It reminded me of the scene from Hannibal TV series:

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It was a very private moment (well, maybe not "very" but only Edwin could hear her) where she allowed herself to be truthful for once.

Her behaviour in this update was super bizarre and inconsistent and I do wonder where TD is going with this. I truly hope it won't turn into some fantasy, having powerful aphrodisiac is one thing but mind control drug is a bit much. If this drug was so powerful it wouldn't make sense for them to share it with outsiders and by this time, Kathleen would probably have the club to herself.

What I also find strange is that so far we've seen only Edwin, Kathleen and Jacob being influenced by this drug (that we know of), neither Chuck nor August seem to be affected by it (or Warren for that matter and out of all patreons only Jim seems interested in the old hag). Chuck spends time with Sophia the most out of all people and yet he can easily resist her charms (same goes for Abel, if anything it's Sophia who is under his influence). And judging by what Sophia said this drug works even on old men.

Sophia: "Yes. He is a male."

Which suggests it might not work on same sex but then again Sophia might have omitted some facts here (if it would work on everyone I would expect she would say "it works on everyone - males and females, young and old").

Turret
This "I hate that old man." was the bombshell/revelation I was talking about. And this sheds a light on what we were talking about earlier:

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Edit:
opposite -> same

 

[Turret]

In a more general term: with this update we get the revelation about the real power and reach of the Carnation Club itself and above all of its total DIABOLICAL nature.
This is not just an upscale brothel with a wholesale clientele, its membership is the real centre of actual power and evil in a vaste region.
And Chuck, Chuck is its real pinpoint.
The bad dreams of the MC are just a faint shadow of the sheer evil trap and corruttive potential they have revealed toward Elias (and Hana).

Hi!
Very true! I mentioned it before, in earlier chapters the Club seems more or less being just a high scale bordello/club, the choice we knew will come, about staying or leaving PC, looked like a minor one. Mainly stylistic if one wanted a more or less "naughty" main story. There had been hints the Club was more than it seemed, but the early ones were focused on single persons.

As I wrote earlier in the discussion, for me now the only way staying in the Club is if we bring in massive changes and send Kath/Chuck and several members where they belong. This update makes it clear why we got August´s reflections on the decreasing sanity of Kath and Chuck, also why even a hardened criminal like him is concerned what goes on.

I don't think Veronica is selfish, she just wants to save her gym, after unknowingly getting screwed over. Felicia is definitely the most selfish one for being there, but you can kind of see her side of things in a way. So I wouldn't just say Rosie is more legit or the only non selfish.

Have to disagree here. While Felicia thought the competition might scratch one of her sexual itches (wrongly, but Kath made sure the Carnations knew just basics about the club) so bonus, she has the least selfish reason to be there. She wants to save/reopen the art school in her home town. She is also nice enough to give money for Rosi, so after a win Felicia might pay off Rosi´s debt too. Even if now that one is obsolete, with Oliver having had that "tragic accident".

 

[GIL3D]

It's rare that my work gets addressed critically, so thank you, AeroHotshot . It's good to know there's people out there who keep an eye out and notice the finer stuff, particularly the deficiencies. Makes me feel better about my level of vigilance.

That clipping on Edwin's shirt was quite a nasty surprise mid-flight. It's always such a delight realizing the chosen costume for a scene has a fundamental problem that's not easily corrected! In this case, I was very aware and wrestled with it, but my old man eyes failed me at some points it seems (I started using glasses while working by the end of this update. The decay is real.) Anyways, not that there was much to do there at a studio level, but that's an easy PS fix. Tbf tho, I can't really see it in the Hana sequence at all. (zoomed in and saw it!! Good one!)

Mina's socks are a bit of the same, some assets will clip onto the body below when bending happens. I do try to correct this when I see it by manually rotating the closest bones and hoping for the best. I think Mina's issue is within the acceptable range all things considered. Good eye.

Fair enough on the Jacob framing. Trying to replicate the old frame was a mistake. Jacob must stay in the middle of the stairs, so a better angle is needed.

Again thank you, knowing there are inquisitive eyes out there looking at our work will keep me on my toes, I appreciate it.

 

[KristopheH]

Is there an Update Only download?

 

[Azzz_ops]

Hey guys, I don't have a PC to play the update, could you tell me if there are any sex scenes with Felicia?

 

[Discrepancy]

Hey guys, I don't have a PC to play the update, could you tell me if there are any sex scenes with Felicia?

Unfortunately no

 

[Zarathos27]

But wouldn't pushing the two characters just a little bit to the right make for a better framing, following the rule of thirds? This way both Killian's and Jacob's shoulders would be about the same distance from the edge. As it stands, there's a lot of empty space on the right side of the image. I made a quick Photoshop mockup of what I'm talking about:

Interesting takes. I think this is a good example when breaking the rules actually is better. Jacob dead center and the natural backdrop of the rug/design on the stairs puts emphasis on HIM. It magnifies his role as bouncer and also subtle introduction of the dynamic between Ian and him. The shoulder aligning with the rug also is a drawing/photography no no. It can create confusion where something starts and ends.

 

[Turret]

Yeah, about that, love is a wrong word, it's more of a worship really. Sophia kisses the ground Abel steps on. Anyway, I assumed that in this instance:

she was telling the truth. It reminded me of the scene from Hannibal TV series:

Spoiler

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It was a very private moment (well, maybe not "very" but only Edwin could hear her) where she allowed herself to be truthful for once.

Her behaviour in this update was super bizarre and inconsistent and I do wonder where TD is going with this. I truly hope it won't turn into some fantasy, having powerful aphrodisiac is one thing but mind control drug is a bit much. If this drug was so powerful it wouldn't make sense for them to share it with outsiders and by this time, Kathleen would probably have the club to herself.

What I also find strange is that so far we've seen only Edwin, Kathleen and Jacob being influenced by this drug (that we know of), neither Chuck nor August seem to be affected by it (or Warren for that matter and out of all patreons only Jim seems interested in the old hag). Chuck spends time with Sophia the most out of all people and yet he can easily resist her charms (same goes for Abel, if anything it's Sophia who is under his influence). And judging by what Sophia said this drug works even on old men.

Which suggests it might not work on opposite sex but then again Sophia might have omitted some facts here (if it would work on everyone I would expect she would say "it works on everyone - males and females, young and old").

Turret
This "I hate that old man." was the bombshell/revelation I was talking about. And this sheds a light on what we were talking about earlier:

Hi!
I wanted to answer you with a post on this topic alone. I agree with you that I am curious as well where TD is aiming for with how Sophia was shown in the update. I do not think she is unhinged, remember what I theorised on black ops stuff? I postulate for now a personality imprint made on her to make sure she acts in certain situations without hesitating. We are talking about dark sh... from the secret services/black ops sphere.
I think her being groomed to be Abel´s successor is unmantling the work done on Sophia. For her to be a successful follow-up on Abel she needs to be herself and this will clash and modify/erase whatever imprint(s) she received. I think Abel is aware of this and let it run it´s course. It might be one reason the two doctors plopped into the club now. Abel knows that his unquestioning, unfailing right hand won´t be like this for all that much longer.

I am a bit sad that I misinterpreted Abel so far. I thought him being the well known humanitarian, he was working against the club knowing it needed getting the hands somewhat dirty considering the influence the club has. While it still could be the truth, Abel is also trying to win and profit over Chuck no matter what it takes. While it still is a noble goal seeing what Kath and Chuck´s brainchild, the VIP club, represents, it shows a darker Abel than we knew before. Still, if we want to bring down Kath and Chuck, we´ll need the help from van Doren too.

I too think that Sophia spoke the truth about hating Chuck, Abel and most of the VIP club members. Going by the fact that she remembers good times fondly and van Doren sometimes shows genuine fondness for Sophia, I theorise Abel rescued (and doted on) young Sophia from whatever hinterland place she came from. Growing up with him and seeing the Good he did, she certainly came to some hero worship. She probably even volunteered to help bring down Chuck and his diabolical club, not knowing how far Abel would go to reach that goal.
Sophia certainly did not think it would be and come like this, with the special training she surely received and the mental work done on her.

More later, have to do other things now.

 

[Zarathos27]

This also reminds me. You can never discount the little details TD and GIL adds to the game that can be missed. Love Vero's scene where her 'texts' are all in lower case. She doesn't bother to use capitalization (I do this IRL text myself). There's also visual storytelling in the scene of what she eats for breakfast. Healthy and somewhat frugal. Cosmetic touch ups are still important to her. Pills could be tylenol for hangover or protein/vitamins and if its the former, she's lied about her alcohol tolerance.

 

[Beduin123]

What a great update, as usual!
But I have a question. Can we fuck Lucy and Hana in the same playthrough or they're mutually exclusive?

 

[MagicMan753]

Have to disagree here. While Felicia thought the competition might scratch one of her sexual itches (wrongly, but Kath made sure the Carnations knew just basics about the club) so bonus, she has the least selfish reason to be there. She wants to save/reopen the art school in her home town. She is also nice enough to give money for Rosi, so after a win Felicia might pay off Rosi´s debt too. Even if now that one is obsolete, with Oliver having had that "tragic accident".

And while I respect your decision, I also disagree. Not that Felcia is bad or there for the wrong reasons, she is just inherently the most selfish person of the three.

Rose wants to clear her debt to live a normal life with her kid, free from danger. Veronica was screwed over and forced to enter this competition to save her gym. While Felcia is the only one to choose to enter. Anyone that chooses to enter a competition like this is just inherently more selfish than the other two, in my opinion, since the other two had no other avenue to solve their problems.

Also the loan she gave Rose, is just that a temporary fix. Yes, she can solve the other two's problems, if she wins, but that is working off of hypotheticals that the club would allow that. That is working off that she will actually do it, not guarantees. Can she do it, sure, but if we are just talking about reasons for entering the competition, she is lowest imo.

Now do I believe there is a way to solve all their problems, yes, but I just disagree that Felicia is the least selfish of the three. And nothing will change my mind of that. I still love Felicia, she is great and I totally understand her amd everything, but I just disagree with you and the other guy.

 

[pinuz1]

This also reminds me. You can never discount the little details TD and GIL adds to the game that can be missed. Love Vero's scene where her 'texts' are all in lower case. She doesn't bother to use capitalization (I do this IRL text myself). There's also visual storytelling in the scene of what she eats for breakfast. Healthy and somewhat frugal. Cosmetic touch ups are still important to her. Pills could be tylenol for hangover or protein/vitamins and if its the former, she's lied about her alcohol tolerance.

There's also stuff like Edwin slightly smiling when she suggests talking over the phone, it's just a small face gesture but it signifies so much during little interactions like that.

Also the text between them has little differences based on what you did the prior update, if you gave her the lesbian push with Mina, she hints at the possibility of having a threesome and that she could teach Edwin how to please a woman, and if you instead spent the time with Veronica, she'll mention the bartender that she helps you get her number. Little text changes like those ones make the game feel so much more alive.

 

[Zarathos27]

There's also stuff like Edwin slightly smiling when she suggests talking over the phone, it's just a small face gesture but it signifies so much during little interactions like that.

Also the text between them has little differences based on what you did the prior update, if you gave her the lesbian push with Mina, she hints at the possibility of having a threesome and that she could teach Edwin how to please a woman, and if you instead spent the time with Veronica, she'll mention the bartender that she helps you get her number. Little text changes like those ones make the game feel so much more alive.

Awesome. Yea I'm looking forward to it. Been busy so haven't properly played all the paths and combed through the code =P

 

[Laxus007]

So is this reference to another avn or is this just a random thing Edwin is watching

 

[lustforsex]

So is this reference to another avn or is this just a random thing Edwin is watching

These are characters from a comic previously created by GIL. There are more characters from that comic in the PC, like the ones we play with Mina in the arcade.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[X2JZcf]

I too think that Sophia spoke the truth about hating Chuck, Abel and most of the VIP club members. Going by the fact that she remembers good times fondly and van Doren sometimes shows genuine fondness for Sophia, I theorise Abel rescued (and doted on) young Sophia from whatever hinterland place she came from. Growing up with him and seeing the Good he did, she certainly came to some hero worship. She probably even volunteered to help bring down Chuck and his diabolical club, not knowing how far Abel would go to reach that goal.

In Sophia’s scene, she mentioned sex training. I think it’s implied that Abel sent her there, not that she was rescued from someone else.

Rose wants to clear her debt to live a normal life with her kid, free from danger. Veronica was screwed over and forced to enter this competition to save her gym. While Felcia is the only one to choose to enter. Anyone that chooses to enter a competition like this is just inherently more selfish than the other two, in my opinion, since the other two had no other avenue to solve their problems.

Or maybe she’s the ultimate go-getter. Maybe she’s a bad mother, and the judge sent her daughter to live with the father and all of her story is a lie.

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[Beduin123]

I also wanted to add that Lucy truly shines in this update (as well as Sophia).
The progress in the Devs' CG skills definitely has done her miracles.
Now she looks like a real beauty and also her character has become much deeper, more 3-dimentional. I hope it's not one time thing and Edwin has more spicy moments with her in the future.

 

[Turret]

In Sophia’s scene, she mentioned sex training. I think it’s implied that Abel sent her there, not that she was rescued from someone else.

Hi!
Sorry, it seems you misunderstood my argument. We learn over the game that Sophia was discovered by Abel when she was quite young and under some kind of duress. Probably because of her intellect and eccentrism, prodigy children can have it tough. Anyway, Sophia remembers clearly and fondly good times with Abel and he is also definitely fond of her, therefor I estimate that Sophia volunteered to help battling Chuck and the Club without knowing that van Dorn would go "all in" and very far.
She has had "specialised training", the mentioned sex training among them and mental work done. As I said hushhush secret service/black ops kind of stuff, done to ensure Sophia can endure things she could/would have to do to get into the Club without getting her cover blown.

As for the sex training it seems clear that it was definitely done for being in the club and our hero and Sophia doing it a counterpoint to the others in more ways than one. Sophia mentions in a roundabout way that she rarely has sex for normal reasons and the two of them enjoyed it differently than the orgy participants.

I wrote it before, I truly hope we get an ending with our hero and Sophia together, a happy end for two damaged souls.

And while I respect your decision, I also disagree. Not that Felcia is bad or there for the wrong reasons, she is just inherently the most selfish person of the three.

Rose wants to clear her debt to live a normal life with her kid, free from danger. Veronica was screwed over and forced to enter this competition to save her gym. While Felcia is the only one to choose to enter. Anyone that chooses to enter a competition like this is just inherently more selfish than the other two, in my opinion, since the other two had no other avenue to solve their problems.

Also the loan she gave Rose, is just that a temporary fix. Yes, she can solve the other two's problems, if she wins, but that is working off of hypotheticals that the club would allow that. That is working off that she will actually do it, not guarantees. Can she do it, sure, but if we are just talking about reasons for entering the competition, she is lowest imo.

Now do I believe there is a way to solve all their problems, yes, but I just disagree that Felicia is the least selfish of the three. And nothing will change my mind of that. I still love Felicia, she is great and I totally understand her amd everything, but I just disagree with you and the other guy.

Hi!
I respect your opinion, but IMHO Veronica is the most selfish Carnation going into the contest. Like Felicia, Veronica has a choice. It has been mentioned several times that Veronica could simply walk away and start anew, living her dream, but just in another gym.
What makes it worse in her case, unlike Rosi and Felicia who would gain what they want with a win, Veronica knows that even if she wins, it is only a temporary(!) stop. Sooner or later she would be in dire straits again, devalueing the victory. It cannot get much more selfish than that, for a specific location she tries for a temporary win, when she could get rid off her problems by simply accepting to live her dream in another gym, just not in the current one.

 

[ChinPowa]

Mac version when?

 

[Flowing Thought]

I think the scene with Sophia in the lobby was really just her not wanting Abel to know she apologized so she pretended not to know about it. I am also kind of unsure we can really trust anything she told us this update or ever. It could all be a load of bullshit.