- Jun 16, 2019
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- Thread starter Juicyful
- Start date
- Aug 22, 2018
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- Apr 14, 2018
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To be fair, it didn't seem like he was asking when there would be more content, only that the amount of content was too short to warrant a download. So I don't see why you're responding to him as harshly as you are.
- Apr 14, 2018
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I'd like to offer some insight that I think might help ALL game developers. If you're trying to monetize your art, you HAVE to not only think of it like a business, but like a SELF EMPLOYED SALES business, similar to a writer or an actor. It's an investment. Think of all the aspiring writers & actors in Hollywood working regular 9 to 5 jobs, going to auditions & writing scripts on their rown dime, for free, hoping to get a small role somewhere, not even to make money, but to hopefully use that roll to build their portfolio & then from there, hoping they can use that to make getting bigger roles easier which will eventually get them into stardom. I mean take Jack Black as an example. He didn't finally make it big & start getting movie offers until after he was in High Fidelity back in 2000. But for that movie & everything he was in before, he had to go out & audition. & he's been acting since 1984. He got his first role when I was 4 years old. Did you guys know he was in an episode of Golden Girls? Or that he was in Waterworld? Or Bio-Dome? Or the Never Ending story 3? I didn't even know there WAS a never ending story 3. So he worked for 16 years, taking parts that paid nothing or next to nothing as an extra, or a bit character for 1 or 2 scenes up until he got a supporting role in Enemy of the State & then with High Fidelity, 16 years into his career he finally made it big enough to start actually getting offers. You have to approach this kind of work the same way.
So for new & aspiring creators that want to make money in this market, DON'T start off with a big game that you hope to make your magnum opus. Instead, work within your means, not only as far as the assets you can afford, but also with what you have the time & energy for.
So what does that entail? Well, write out your stories first. Start with something short, but good, & easy to manage. write good characters, get the story fleshed out on paper, (or a text editor), then once you have your story dialed in, use whatever spare money you can afford to buy the most important assets & then use free assets for the rest. I know, I know, free assets aren't as good. But you have to work within your means. There's lots of free assets out there that can be workable if you dig for them & if the story is good, the models won't matter as much. Create 1 or 2 smallish games to completion before releasing ANYTHING, (but break them up into chunks so that you can upload them in chunks). Then write out your main passion project story. By write, I don't mean write it, code it & do the renders, I mean write out the storyboard, flesh out the scenes & all the dialogue, get it on paper & all fleshed out so that the writing work is done. By the time that is done, you'll have 2 complete small games & your main game written out.
Then, create your Patreon, subscribestar, etc..., break your first game up into about 4 or 5 parts & announce your game with part 1 on sites like this, lewd zone, etc... get ahead of the curve & release the game directly to the pirates to get that sweet sweet exposure. Make it clear in your release post that you're aware that the renders aren't that great, but you're a new dev & don't have the budget currently for anything high end YET, but you're showcasing your talent with what you do have to work with, & hopefully if people like it & subscribe, you'll be able to use those funds to get better assets & increase the production value. Then after a couple weeks, release part 2, then repeat for 3, 4, 5, etc.. It should be easy since you already completed the games ahead of time. then do the same with your second game.
By the time you've finished releasing both games, you'll already have a reputation for releasing content reliably, fast & most importantly, COMPLETING what you start. This is also why writing your main game before you start is important. Because by this point, you will have a growing fanbase.
If your fanbase isn't dialed in where you need it to afford the assets you need, maybe create 3 or 4 short games in advance instead of just 2 to have more pre-made content to push out & get noticed. With all off them, mention the main game you want to work on once you have enough to afford the assets. Talk about the game, generate buzz. Additionally, rely on your WRITING more than eye candy. YEs eye candy is important, but GOOD WRITING will take you much farther than good eye candy. Look at Slonique as a prime example. Good at eye candy, shit at writing & finishing games.
By following this method & creating burner or investment games at the beginning that you essentially knowingly make for free or at a loss, you're not only practicing your craft so that you're good when you get to your main game, but you're also making that important investment of visibility so that when you get to the BIG project, you already have a good foundation you've built up to get you where you need to be.
Pass this around to any creators that you might know. THIS is the key to avoiding burnout & hopefully more games being completed.
- Apr 14, 2018
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TL;DR version, because I know most people se anything longer than 5 or 6 words & think "dis iz buk, I iz are not doing all day readin dis" even though it would take even a half illiterate person maybe 30 seconds to read my prior post:
Don't start with a big behemoth project. Understand that you're going to need to get exposure & build your following to get the supporters you need to make the big project happen. Make 1 to 4 small games in advance with the best assets you can manage, make sure you write them good, & release them as investments to get exposure, get a following, so that once you have a decent following you then have the income you need to make the big project happen.
Don't start with a big behemoth project. Understand that you're going to need to get exposure & build your following to get the supporters you need to make the big project happen. Make 1 to 4 small games in advance with the best assets you can manage, make sure you write them good, & release them as investments to get exposure, get a following, so that once you have a decent following you then have the income you need to make the big project happen.
- May 11, 2017
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That is a lot to read, I'll toss some feedback back.
For starters there is more than one road to success, and success is not the same thing to all people. Different people have different goals. This developer Juicyful had a 1st goal of $100, and after several months and releasing 2 different games... It just never hit that mark and its heart breaking. One or two or a small handful of loyal supporters could have kept this project alive.
Additionally, it would take a lot of discipline and resources to do as you suggested, and it would also be very dishonest. (Sounds sketchy to have multiple full games developed completely and released in parts ahead of time in pieces to artifically boost your production speed.) Developing for a few years, and having all that work in the hole making 0 money ahead of time is high risk high reward. That strategy would pretty much guarentee 0 dollars for a long long time as well as it takes a long time to make a game and you suggest multiple games.
Also, Exposure on pirate sites doesn't necessarily translate to instant money or to much money, and by all means is a doubled edged sword in many ways. If ten thousand people pirate your game it doesn't mean any of them are gonna toss you even a single dollar. It reminds me of an old video about pirating from the 90s... It's
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. Those developers had it EASY back then. For starters it was mostly
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companies complaining. Not so much
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developers. They were complaining that 50% of the copies of the game were pirated copies of the game. 99.9% of adult games are pirated copies from indie developers not getting a check from some AAA company.Although f95 and other sites do offer help to developers they also kicks them in the teeth. I think the biggest thing is probably the leaking of games very soon after release. Suppose you have a certain patroon reward to release at a certain time before anyone else. Often this will be like an early buggy version as well. A lot of devs miss out on money because it is so easy to pirate most games on day 1 of release.
- Apr 14, 2018
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I appreciate the feedback. There's a lot to upack here, so I'll take it bit by bit to make it easier to digest.
I agree. Though if the goal is to make money, you HAVE to have a solid plan & the needed prep work & pay your dues to get noticed & develop a fanbase to get that income stream flowing.
Again, I agree that it's heartbreaking, however the detail you're overlooking is he released 2 ABANDONED games. I understand that he tried for months but the reality is, it takes a LOT of time & marketing yourself to get the momentum you need to get the income flowing. Yes, he stagnated at under $100 for months. That sucks. But you & I both know that abandoning a game is often the death knell for a creator. We both know this site is jam PACKED with games created by devs that are looking for a quick payday, whom slap together a quick 0.1 & bail if the cash pipeline isn't flowing to their liking. & this happens SO much, that when some devs HAVE to abandon their game because their life circumstances prevent them from being able to continue with it, they are presumed to be another cash grab scammer by the majority in the court of public opinion. These are indisputable FACTS. So you have to realize that for most of these people, including the would be possible patrons, when they see 1 game started, then abandoned early on, then another one started, What they see in their mind is "Oh, we got another Slonique or Bright Sun Studios here", Presume it as a scammer looking for a cash grab as they start, abandon, wash rinse repeat like SO many creators on here do. By bailing out & abandoning the games, he sealed his own fate. The best thing he could have done for himself was to knuckle under & finish at least one of them with whatever assets he could get because the best thing ANY creator can do to generate interest is demonstrate that they can FINISH a project. That goes a LONG way in this community.
Yeah. it would. That's how working for yourself & selling your art / talent is. You seem to be under the impression that this is like a regular job where you show up, put in the hours & people line up to pay you. It isn't. Go back to the example I gave about Jack Black. Again, his first on screen role was in 1984. Who knows how much free or barely paid theater work he had to do, as well as networking to even get to that point, & was still another 16 YEARS before he got a starring role in High Fidelity in 2000. YEAH. It takes a LOT of time, discipline, work & effort. That's how running a business works. Look at youtubers or instagram models. They have to diligently churn out consistent content for FREE for months, sometimes YEARS to grow their fanbase before they can even monetize their content. & then they are STILL making pennies until they grow big enough to start making real money. Look at conventional businesses like running a restaurant. Most restaurants have to plan ahead & have enough money saved up to live for 3 years on savings when they first open because they will be operating at a loss for at least their first year & likely won't start turning enough of a profit to support themselves until about 3 years in.
The reality is, if you're trying to make income off your talent as a game maker, just like with any business, you HAVE to be ready to put in a fuck ton of time, effort & work, knowing that you won't see a dime from it for a LONG time. This is a massively oversaturated, niche demographic, full of creators that abandon their projects halfway in or barely after starting, on top of the vast majority of the consumer base being non paying pirates. meanwhile, you, (not you specifically, but you know what I mean), are a new creator bringing your own game to the table. You're a no name nobody with no observable track record, aside from the 0.1 that you've released that 90% of the customer base is expecting will be abandoned within a few months. Does this sound like the kind of setting where people will line up yelling "Shut up & take my money!" REALLY? Noooo. You HAVE to PROVE yourself by having that PORTFOLIO. Once you have a couple of completed games, even if they aren't perfect, under your belt, The simple fact that you finished a fucking game alone builds a lot of credit. So when you move on to your next project, more people are willing to support it, because you've already demonstrated that you're not the kind to abandon games. This is important to be aware of.
I'm sorry if I come off sounding abrasive here, because I genuinely do not have any issue with you, & I do appreciate good respectable discussion, but I won't lie, this comment is extremely frustrating because, to me, it seems to display a significant lack of understanding of not only business, but also the community & medium we are working with here.
Look, like I said before, as a brand spanking new creator, you're a no name nobody until you make a name for yourself. Even if you have spectacular renders & good plot, if it's your first game, you're gonna have to crank out a LOT of updates & a lot of content before enough people are comfortable enough to contribute a couple bucks a month. Most successful creators fall under 2 categories. They either A, start making good money after they've finished at least 1 game, or they start their career with enough money of their own to afford all the assets they need to create a high quality game from the start, & they have the time & dedication to pump out enough consistent updates to draw enough attention for enough people to say "Yeah, I'll toss in a buck a month to support this & make sure it continues" & they can afford to make that initial investment to make the money on the back end. If you need the supporters money to afford the assets you need for the quality of the game you want to make, then you have to face the reality that you're going to have to prove to the community that you're not a pump & dump scammer before they will even consider giving you any money. It's just the reality of things.
So no, it's NOT dishonest, nor sketchy. It's called preparation. It's called developing your portfolio. It's called planning ahead. First of all, we both know that when you're a broke new creator with no income from your game & regular job that you're having to work, giving you very little free time to set aside to work on your game, it's a lot harder & takes a lot more time to make a game. When you're making enough from your supporters to work on the game full time, it's a lot easier to crank out content faster. That's reality. Not only that, but when you're brand new, you're under a lot more scrutiny because everyone is expecting you to pump & dump. So everyone is waiting & watching to see what you'll do.
So if you only write, code & render the 0.1 of your first game, then release it, then start working on writing, coding & rendering the 0.2 while wondering "Y no moniez yet?" You're going to get discouraged, burned out, overwhelmed by the workload, because you're working hard, not smart, JUST like this creator did, & give up, relegating yourself to "another pump & dump scammer" in the court of public opinion, making any future efforts even MORE difficult because you already have the stigma from that first game branded on you.
However, if you have 2 short games already completed, then when you release the first part, every time you consistently post an update once a month, you are demonstrating that you are consistent, dedicated & that you are going to deliver a complete game. This attracts the kind of attention that you WANT. This is also why it's a good idea to write out your first big game before you upload anything, in fact it would be a good idea to code it all too. Because THAT way, one you start uploading your first game, in the months between updates of the already finished product, since the big project game is already written & coded, all you have to do is create the renders for it. If you're disciplined, diligent & consistent with it, over the 10 to 12 months you spend releasing your first 2 games, you'll have your first BIG game mostly, if not completely finished. Then you can start posting uploads of that game & start work on writing the next one. If you play it smart, by the time you finish posting the second starter game, you should have enough coming in to afford most of the assets you need for your first main project. By the time you're halfway through it, you're an established creator in the middle of a highly desired big game, with 2 completed games to your credit, so you'll have a substantially larger following. By the time you get to your second big game, (4th game total), well if you're working smart, you'll be half, if not mostly done with it by the time you release the completed 1st big game. But even if you still have a lot of work to do & need more time between updates, the support base won't be as fickle & skittish because they will already know by your track record that you finish games & will deliver the content. Having a history of completed games creates that NEEDED credibility that converts some of the pirates to supporters. This SHOULD be common sense to someone that is a creator themselves.
Hi. Welcome to the adult game community. You must be new here.
Again, this is a niche, oversaturated market with an extremely high percentage of abandoned games, most of which are pump & dump scams. Trying to make money AT ALL in this market is high risk, modest to highish reward. I mean trying to make real money here is like a high school kid on the football team banking his whole future on making it in the NFL. Even in the most ideal circumstances, the odds are stacked against you. THAT is why you have to be smart, disciplined, put in the work & understand that you have to demonstrate THROUGH your body of work that you're worth their money. & having completed games to your credit does a LOT more to earn that credit than a 0.1 or 0.2 of a decent or even good game, because it proves you're not a pump & dump scammer that's going to leave the fans blue balled. THAT is how you earn their trust, & with that, their money.
I'm just going to respond to the rest off it with this. Do you SERIOSULY think that the patrons that creators make their money from are REALLY a different group of people than the ones on sites like these? Like there's some other community of porn game fans out there that AREN'T on this site & are out looking for new creators to open their wallets to? Where, pray tell, are the people from this "other" community even finding out about these creators & games from? Do you presume that these wealthy Patrons have this sort of telepathy where the instant Jimmy Jims posts the 0.1 of his very first game on his Patreon, these people receive a telepathic message of "Jimmy Jims just created a new game! Here's his URL to check it out & give him your money". Well if so, let me correct that myth. No. That's not how it works. These pirates in this community, & others like it ARE the patrons & supporters. Communities like this are where their games are broadcasted to the adult game community, as these are the hubs of this community. Site's like this is how we discover that these games & these creators even EXIST. You can't get supporters if they don't know that you or your game even exists, do you understand? Now yes, you're right. 99% are going to pirate the game for free, no matter what. So if your goal is $2000 a month, you need to get your game in front of at least 200,000 people.
I mean, listen. I know I may have come off kinda snarky & dickish here, & I'm not meaning to be a dick, but come on man. Unless your point was "Making games & making money from them is hard & a lot of work, so it's better to just make a 0.1, maybe an update or 2, & if the money doesn't start coming in, just give up", I don't see how any of your feedback refutes any of my argument. Yes, it's a lot of hard work that requires a lot of discipline, time & effort without any guarantee. That's life. I mean hell, Look at normal work. If you want a good job, What's the first thing you need to do? Well spend most of your childhood from kindergarten up through the end of high school getting a basic education. Well hey, after high school, you get a good job right? Nope, then you PAY a fuck ton of money to go to college. Ok, well after paying the college, they give you a degree right? NOPE. You have to spend YEARS learning & proving you know the material. Well then surely after that you get a good job right? NOPE, you either move on to an unpaid internship, or start out at an entry level job in your industry that pays barely above minimum wage to get work experience. Then after a few years of that, you might get a few steps up, & then maybe by the time you're in your 30's or 40's you might get that high paying cushy job. This is a hard industry to make money in because it's customer base is a bunch of cheap ass pirates that are difficult to convince to pay anything, & doubly difficult since they get burned all the time by abandoned games. So my proposed methodology is clearly the most effective way for a new creator to position themselves for success.
- May 29, 2017
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I've been writing for this industry since 2018, but I've never been the lead developer. There's a TON about the financial side of these games that I don't know, but there are a few things I think I do:
1) F95 is a double-edged sword.
{On the one hand, it is a form of advertising/exposure that is desperately needed for new devs. On the other hand, almost NONE of the traffic that pays money (based on Google Analytics, Patreon, etc) comes from F95. Basically, you can't be in business without F95, but you can't be in business with F95 either.}
2) The difference between an unnoticed game and a successful game is often one or few active fans.
{I was a huge fan of one particular game for a couple years and constantly wondered why it made almost nothing. Then I decided to do something about it - I wrote about it on this site and others, created a walkthrough, made people aware of how many play styles the game had, etc. That game went from less than $300/mo to over $1300/mo in about two months. It even earned me a cameo in the game. My own experience is anecdotal - maybe it was just a coincidence - but I've seen time and time again where dedicated fans and forum content turned out to be the difference between utter failure and more-or-less success.}
3) In the words of Pastor Richards (VCPR, GTA Vice City),
"...and if you believe in something, support it. It's one thing to love in something, but if you don't shower it with money, then just don't talk to me."
1) F95 is a double-edged sword.
{On the one hand, it is a form of advertising/exposure that is desperately needed for new devs. On the other hand, almost NONE of the traffic that pays money (based on Google Analytics, Patreon, etc) comes from F95. Basically, you can't be in business without F95, but you can't be in business with F95 either.}
2) The difference between an unnoticed game and a successful game is often one or few active fans.
{I was a huge fan of one particular game for a couple years and constantly wondered why it made almost nothing. Then I decided to do something about it - I wrote about it on this site and others, created a walkthrough, made people aware of how many play styles the game had, etc. That game went from less than $300/mo to over $1300/mo in about two months. It even earned me a cameo in the game. My own experience is anecdotal - maybe it was just a coincidence - but I've seen time and time again where dedicated fans and forum content turned out to be the difference between utter failure and more-or-less success.}
3) In the words of Pastor Richards (VCPR, GTA Vice City),
"...and if you believe in something, support it. It's one thing to love in something, but if you don't shower it with money, then just don't talk to me."
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- Apr 14, 2018
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By & large, I do agree with you. My only nit pick is that you seem to contradict your first point with your second, by which I mean in your first point seems to say "most Patreon support doesn't come from sites like this" part, which, given the medium, I'd be curious then, where DOES most of their support come from? But then in your second point, you then describe how you helped a creator boost their support base from under $300 to $1300, by sriting about it & spreading the word on sites like this one, which seems to suggest that in his case, at least 4/5ths, or 80% of his supporters did come from here, (By here, I mean forum & "piracy" sites like this).
That said, I do get & agree with your general premise. Yeah, it's one of those things where it really is a double edged sword. I think the thing that people, both Creators & fans alike need to have a better understanding of is this. The creators get into this racket thinking they are a merchant SELLING their game or art, & the fans donate on Patreon thinking they are BUYING a finished product. & they both have it all wrong, which is, I think what leasds both of them to frustration & failure.
In reality, they both need to realize the the game creators REALLY are buskers, (Street musicians), that are performing their art for all around them to enjoy, & PAtreon is their open guitar case for fans to toss in donations. The more they realize this very simple & basic truth, the better off they will be, because the creators will then understand that the key to making money is to just keep on playing, (making & finishing their games), & the longer they keep playing, the more the donations in their guitar case will add up. Likewise, the fans would understand that they are not buying the busker's music, they are giving a donation to show their appreciation for the performance. Make sense?
I mean when you think about it, that's exactly how it is.
- May 29, 2017
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The first point focused on direct evidence, the second point focused on indirect & anecdotal evidence.
Basically, what I think is going on is that F95 piracy rarely turns into patrons, but can generate buzz around a game (on F95, reddit, other forums, etc) that can lead to non-pirates becoming patrons.
That said, there might be many other & better ways to interpret the data.
- Sep 22, 2018
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The Android APK is messed up it has .apk.zip makes it unable to work on Android even if you use rar and joiplay
- Sep 22, 2017
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Would have been a lot better with a Male protagonist and dropped the abomination tags. But like the female character's and was able to avoid that which was not acceptable with ease and a little re-coding. <<<evil grin>>>
- May 28, 2021
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That was perfect. Why this game is abandonned ?
Soo sad
Soo sad
I'm sad that this game got abandoned. It had a great story to it and fantastic characters. I hope this game returns. I would like to see what happens.
- May 28, 2021
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- Jun 23, 2022
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- Jun 23, 2022
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Looks like it's abandoned for good now. I was really hoping they'd come back to work on this
If anyone has a game similar to this please tell me.
If anyone has a game similar to this please tell me.
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