dartred

Engaged Member
Game Developer
Aug 30, 2017
3,975
7,299
1. I admitted to glossing over/not seeing the "NTR is non-canonical" message, I never admitted to making a false statement, if you are referring to me saying that that game is "false advertising" I see it as valid given that NTR is not integral or matters to the game yet its updated with this type of content to draw in more people.

2. The story is driven forward no matter what, you can literally opt out of all NTR and the story doesnt miss a beat, it isnt a plot device, it isnt a narrative when you can remove all traces, you are just plain wrong here. There can be a million threats but if the threat isnt real then it isnt a threat its an illusion.

3. True.

It's not even a discussion about hating or not hating NTR. The discussion was about the game presenting a half-assed form of NTR that means nothing to the story, isnt real and ultimately was only put in to garner a wider audience.

Just because you dont like NTR doesnt mean you need to be snide towards anyone who has an opinion about it. And you got the nerve to make remarks about others lacking intellect and emotional matururity.
For #2
Hunter IS important to the story. Sterling would have never attempted to seduce the women in his family if Hunter never showed up. Hunter was the reason Sterling started going after the women in his family in the first place. Sterling would have never gotten buff either. Hunter is the one who put all the drugs that made Sterling what he is at this point. Saying Hunter is important just shows you didn’t read the game or at least anything outside of sex scenes.
 

SuddenReal

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2017
1,499
2,236
There can be a million threats but if the threat isnt real then it isnt a threat its an illusion.
I'm curious. What then do you consider a threat? If in a story there is a situation where if the hero doesn't prevail, there will be dire consequences, do you not consider that a real threat when he does? I mean, then in any form of story there wouldn't be a threat. You could even flip your premise. If the hero doesn't prevail, the dire consequences aren't a threat but an actuality. Which means the threat is also an illusion. After all, the definition of a threat is "intention". Once that intention is acted out, it's no longer a threat.
And in the case of Power Vacuum, it is most certainly a threat. If you pick the wrong thing, bad things happen (yes, yes, I know, "bad things" is debatable).

But the reason why there aren't two paths, is because it's impossible. You wouldn't have two paths, but two seperate games that can never interact with one another. I mean, think about it. From the first choice, if you pick the NTR option, the harem game is over. Hunter won. Sterling would never be able to win the girls back, nor even continue on the harem path since that happens because he won. Which means, it's not a different branch but a whole new tree. And what of the second choice? It doesn't magically go to the second tree, but makes a third tree. None of the NTR paths will ever converge with each other, simply because all that happened before in the harem path. We're at the verge of chapter 12, which would mean that there would be the continuation of not only the harem path, but also all eleven NTR paths in the past (most of which will just be repeating itself because, let's be honest, all the interesting stuff already happened). I mean, let's face it, Dartred is an NTR fan, but I think even he would move on if the update is "Hunter fucks the girls again without Sterling even being in the picture".

You know what, I wasn't planning on doing this, but fuck it. I think it's time to make it clear that there's a difference between NTR and the NTR genre. NTR is about a non-main character fucking the MC's LI. But the NTR genre is about a non-main character stealing away the MC's LI. Fans of the NTR genre are all about the act of stealing. Once it's done, well, it's... it's just porn. They don't care about the "happily ever after". Nobody does. Everyone wants to see the hero get the girl. Nobody cares what happens after he got her. So, while technically everything happening after Hunter succeeds is NTR, nobody cares, because he already succeeded. It's no longer part of the NTR genre, since the act of stealing already happened. That's why there's a difference between NTR and cucking. With cucking, the "MC" knows, with NTR, he doesn't. With cucking, the "MC" accepts his fate, with NTR, he's helpless to do anything. That's the difference. (Disclaimer: I know there are more aspects to cucking than that and I'm going with the general definition, but whatever). Anyway, any continuation of the NTR paths would no longer be part of the NTR genre, and thus wouldn't be interesting to NTR fans.
 

BBC King

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2021
1,004
1,696
I'm curious. What then do you consider a threat? If in a story there is a situation where if the hero doesn't prevail, there will be dire consequences, do you not consider that a real threat when he does? I mean, then in any form of story there wouldn't be a threat. You could even flip your premise. If the hero doesn't prevail, the dire consequences aren't a threat but an actuality. Which means the threat is also an illusion. After all, the definition of a threat is "intention". Once that intention is acted out, it's no longer a threat.
And in the case of Power Vacuum, it is most certainly a threat. If you pick the wrong thing, bad things happen (yes, yes, I know, "bad things" is debatable).
I consider a threat something that results in an outcome that is unwanted. This is a bit confusing in NTR because if you want NTR to happen then the "threat" is your key to getting to what you want. For the sake of argument we will keep it simple; a threat would be the girls getting dicked down by someone other than you. Well in this case its an illusion because the girls are never in any danger, NTR events are either turned off or they happen in a "what if" scenario. Ultimately, the hero will always triumph, good will always prevail over evil, there is no permanence in these "bad things". It's more like a bad dream that you will eventually wake up from.
But the reason why there aren't two paths, is because it's impossible. You wouldn't have two paths, but two seperate games that can never interact with one another. I mean, think about it. From the first choice, if you pick the NTR option, the harem game is over. Hunter won. Sterling would never be able to win the girls back, nor even continue on the harem path since that happens because he won. Which means, it's not a different branch but a whole new tree. And what of the second choice? It doesn't magically go to the second tree, but makes a third tree. None of the NTR paths will ever converge with each other, simply because all that happened before in the harem path. We're at the verge of chapter 12, which would mean that there would be the continuation of not only the harem path, but also all eleven NTR paths in the past (most of which will just be repeating itself because, let's be honest, all the interesting stuff already happened). I mean, let's face it, Dartred is an NTR fan, but I think even he would move on if the update is "Hunter fucks the girls again without Sterling even being in the picture".
I was waiting for someone to say something like this. Ladies and gentlemen I present to you A Struggle With Sin. Not only are there 2 unique paths in 1 game but those paths happen to be Harem and NTR. The reason this game doesnt have 2 paths is simple; the dev didnt want to make 2 paths but they did want to get as much support and audience as possible so they did the next best thing, they created the game they intended but to appease another group of potential customers they shoehorned in "NTR" and for that extra sprinkle on top as to not alienate his core demographic they made sure that NTR was "non-canonical".
You know what, I wasn't planning on doing this, but fuck it. I think it's time to make it clear that there's a difference between NTR and the NTR genre. NTR is about a non-main character fucking the MC's LI. But the NTR genre is about a non-main character stealing away the MC's LI. Fans of the NTR genre are all about the act of stealing. Once it's done, well, it's... it's just porn. They don't care about the "happily ever after". Nobody does. Everyone wants to see the hero get the girl. Nobody cares what happens after he got her. So, while technically everything happening after Hunter succeeds is NTR, nobody cares, because he already succeeded. It's no longer part of the NTR genre, since the act of stealing already happened. That's why there's a difference between NTR and cucking. With cucking, the "MC" knows, with NTR, he doesn't. With cucking, the "MC" accepts his fate, with NTR, he's helpless to do anything. That's the difference. (Disclaimer: I know there are more aspects to cucking than that and I'm going with the general definition, but whatever). Anyway, any continuation of the NTR paths would no longer be part of the NTR genre, and thus wouldn't be interesting to NTR fans.
Already wrong. NTR is a genre of porn in of it self which consists of multiple aspects; Netorare/Netorase/Netori, these aspects all vary greatly and can be definitively added to a game on top of each other or separately. You already lack a proper understanding of the concept so anything you have to say after that I ignored because your take on it is ill-informed and you are the last person who should be speaking as to what "wouldnt be interesting to NTR fans".
 

SuddenReal

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2017
1,499
2,236
Not only are there 2 unique paths in 1 game but those paths happen to be Harem and NTR.
Be as it may be, but is it the main focus on the game or is the story line seperate from that? Because the story line in Power Vacuum is all about protecting the girls. If one falls, all fall. I haven't played A Struggle With Sin, but I assume the NTR in the game are one off's and are not connected to the other girls. Meaning if you "lose" one girl, that doesn't mean you're locked out of another girl.
The reason this game doesnt have 2 paths is simple; the dev didnt want to make 2 paths but they did want to get as much support and audience as possible so they did the next best thing, they created the game they intended but to appease another group of potential customers they shoehorned in "NTR" and for that extra sprinkle on top as to not alienate his core demographic they made sure that NTR was "non-canonical".
No, the reason why it doesn't have 2 paths is because the whole point of the game is to avoid NTR. It's not "shoehorned in" because it was always the premise from the game since the very start. And since the story is driven by avoiding NTR, all the plotlines of the girls are connected. You advance with one because you reached a certain point with another. So, remove one of the girls, the story can't continue anymore. That's why there aren't two paths, because you can't intersect them.
 

BBC King

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2021
1,004
1,696
Be as it may be, but is it the main focus on the game or is the story line seperate from that? Because the story line in Power Vacuum is all about protecting the girls. If one falls, all fall. I haven't played A Struggle With Sin, but I assume the NTR in the game are one off's and are not connected to the other girls. Meaning if you "lose" one girl, that doesn't mean you're locked out of another girl.
Since that game isnt a kinetic novel like this one its much more open, meaning the paths all diverge and intersect one another multiple times and there isnt 1 way to play or 2 know that I think about it, you are free to mix and match BUT im getting off topic, ASWS isnt Power Vacuum and vice-versa, my comment was to let you know a game CAN have multiple paths if the dev so chooses, this dev chose not to. A corruption narrative isnt that complex and can be woven into any genre.
No, the reason why it doesn't have 2 paths is because the whole point of the game is to avoid NTR. It's not "shoehorned in" because it was always the premise from the game since the very start. And since the story is driven by avoiding NTR, all the plotlines of the girls are connected. You advance with one because you reached a certain point with another. So, remove one of the girls, the story can't continue anymore. That's why there aren't two paths, because you can't intersect them.
Building on my previous statement, this game is a kinetic novel and its pretty typical; MC fucks harem, third party wants to fuck harem, MC stops third party. Thats not exactly ground breaking story-telling and like I said before a corruption narrative can just as easily have been written in to create 2 paths where 1 side wins and where 1 side loses over the course of narrative but that didnt happen. I have stated MY opinion on why this is how it is but at the end of the day its just my opinion.

Good game, good renders, terrible interpretation of NTR. And on that note imma stop replying to this mini-thread because this has gone on long enough, we can take it to PM's but tbh we are just arguing opinions at this point.
 

TrueJackal

Active Member
Jul 7, 2020
903
1,163
Roughly 9 months and no update. The dev used to be better than this. What's up?
Is this a troll comment? Can we remove comments this wilfully ignorant?

To answer your question directly:
Every update takes longer because he puts MORE content into them.
There has been a steady stream of monthly teasers showing us what the dev has been working on.
And to top it all off, the Dev said there would be an update this month.
YOU CAN CHECK HIS FUCKING PATREON AND SEE THAT HE'S MAKING POSTS CONSTANTLY!!!

The dev IS better, that's why it takes LONGER to make new updates, because it takes MORE time to produce high quality work. And then he has to check to make sure that the update isn't buggy. He's also gotten faster because he puts DOUBLE the amount of renders in less than double the time.

There's no way you seriously looked at the dev's patreon, looked at the teasers that get posted here, looked at ANY information here, and came to that conclusion.

Do you understand how linear time works? Do you realize what it means to rush a product? And how that would NEGATIVELY affect the product? Are you real?

Can we make comments like this against the rules? Not comments genuinely asking if the game is on hiatus, that's dumb but whatever. But comments unwittingly asking for WORSE content. Comments complaining about release schedules when the dev ISN'T a scammer.

Fuck I need to chill out, why do I care so much.
 

Only1P

Member
Sep 10, 2021
447
1,531
It's iffy. He didn't make a post on the 11th, so I assume he's focusing more on getting the update done, than making small updates.
Hey there, I am following the patreon, and yes, the updates are getting astronomically bigger leading up to each new chapter, in fact I dont think i've ever seen an update as big as what ch12 is shaping up to be ever out of any dev in this community.

But you cant deny that, the teasers have gotten significantly more sparse, he is skipping update dates on schedule, he did drop the percentage evaluation.
It seems like as we get closer and closer to release, instead of getting a more precise idea of the date of release, its getting more and more vague, the dev's comments on "How exhausting it is to do nothing but writing", "Im adding more stuff" dont help either.

I mean we're on the 21st already, if the release is actually set up for December there are not many options left.

I mean why wont he do something like that:
(Not word to word, but you know what I mean)

1703156060550.png
 
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dartred

Engaged Member
Game Developer
Aug 30, 2017
3,975
7,299
But you cant deny that, the teasers have gotten significantly more sparse, he is skipping update dates on schedule, he did drop the percentage evaluation.
It seems like as we get closer and closer to release, instead of getting a more precise idea of the date of release, its getting more and more vague, the dev's comments on "How exhausting it is to do nothing but writing", "Im adding more stuff" dont help either.

I mean we're on the 21st already, if the release is actually set up for December there are not many options left.

I mean why wont he do something like that:
(Not word to word, but you know what I mean)

View attachment 3192157
He is skipping updates by choice. He has said that after he is done with the render portion and moves onto the writing, he has to space out teasers otherwise he'll have to release teasers that spoil TOO much. We all know he has the renders, he just doesn't want to release more revealing renders. He has said before that NTR event teasers are the usually the last teasers and they are. He then throws together a teaser salad of a few images from different teasers sometimes.

1703158547918.png


He also talked about why he doesn't do hard dates. He said in the discord when he puts hard dates and they approach, he feels like he wish he could cut off a pinkie finger to have just 1 more day. Can't find the post, but i'm sure other discord users remember when he said it.
 

Kingkoopa97

Active Member
Nov 10, 2018
853
2,491
Is this a troll comment? Can we remove comments this wilfully ignorant?

To answer your question directly:
Every update takes longer because he puts MORE content into them.
There has been a steady stream of monthly teasers showing us what the dev has been working on.
And to top it all off, the Dev said there would be an update this month.
YOU CAN CHECK HIS FUCKING PATREON AND SEE THAT HE'S MAKING POSTS CONSTANTLY!!!

The dev IS better, that's why it takes LONGER to make new updates, because it takes MORE time to produce high quality work. And then he has to check to make sure that the update isn't buggy. He's also gotten faster because he puts DOUBLE the amount of renders in less than double the time.

There's no way you seriously looked at the dev's patreon, looked at the teasers that get posted here, looked at ANY information here, and came to that conclusion.

Do you understand how linear time works? Do you realize what it means to rush a product? And how that would NEGATIVELY affect the product? Are you real?

Can we make comments like this against the rules? Not comments genuinely asking if the game is on hiatus, that's dumb but whatever. But comments unwittingly asking for WORSE content. Comments complaining about release schedules when the dev ISN'T a scammer.

Fuck I need to chill out, why do I care so much.
He has been in the "writing phase" since September and there is no fucking chance it takes 4 months to write the "story" each update is legit 80% jokes 20% story so stop riding his dick so hard, the Yes men in this thread and discord is probably a big reason why he has been stretching these updates out for years now.
 
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He has been in the "writing phase" since September and there is no fucking chance it takes 4 months to write the "story" each update is legit 80% jokes 20% story so stop riding his dick so hard, the Yes men in this thread and discord is probably a big reason why he has been stretching these updates out for years now.
Yeah right? I don't know if these ass lickers get paid by the developer or something. There is no point in such a long update interval unless something bad happens. It's as simple as that. Don't be a fanboy and know how to speak the truth when the time comes.
 

Fayn Arawn

Active Member
May 24, 2019
826
1,518
I consider a threat something that results in an outcome that is unwanted. This is a bit confusing in NTR because if you want NTR to happen then the "threat" is your key to getting to what you want. For the sake of argument we will keep it simple; a threat would be the girls getting dicked down by someone other than you. Well in this case its an illusion because the girls are never in any danger, NTR events are either turned off or they happen in a "what if" scenario. Ultimately, the hero will always triumph, good will always prevail over evil, there is no permanence in these "bad things". It's more like a bad dream that you will eventually wake up from.
It would be more accurate to say that a "threat" is the potential of an unwanted outcome. If that unwanted outcome ever occurs then it is no longer a threat, it is reality. What you're talking about reminds me of the concept of "plot armor". Unfortunately (for you?) that's simply the nature of most stories where a hero is fated (by the writer) to triumph in the end.

Now just because the unwanted outcome is avoided doesn't mean there was no danger. If we compare this "game" to a typical video game, then its bad ends are fail states like character deaths. If you fall down a bottomless pit, or let an important NPC get killed, the game cannot continue because there's no point. Avoiding these fail states doesn't mean they weren't threats.

I'm honestly trying to imagine how Power Vacuum could work otherwise. One approach could be to have separate paths for each girl, where you could permanently lose each one to Hunter, but they'd have to be totally compartmentalized from each other, or the amount of alternate scenes/dialogue would be massive as characters react differently to the branching timelines. So then the dilemma is between "why don't other characters acknowledge when the villain seduces one" and "why does it take a year for an update where nothing much happens on the main path" (*cough*Being a DIK*cough*). So the dev's solution is it's all or nothing.
 
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TrueJackal

Active Member
Jul 7, 2020
903
1,163
He has been in the "writing phase" since September and there is no fucking chance it takes 4 months to write the "story" each update is legit 80% jokes 20% story so stop riding his dick so hard, the Yes men in this thread and discord is probably a big reason why he has been stretching these updates out for years now.
It definitely can take 4 months to be in the writing phase.

Not only is he writing the story, he's also writing the jokes, having to come up with wordplay in each of the scenes. As well as making sure that the writing is consistent, and doesn't contradict earlier parts of the story, so he has to keep track of everything.

You may have noticed that small things a character mentions in chapter 2 or 3, come back in chapter 10 or 11. Ophelia mentioned that she will be angry at Sterling if he gets cum on his bedroom wall. That was way back at the beginning of the game. Then in a recent chapter, she got really angry about it. A small throw away line like that, made a come back. And that's jut one example. There's also tracking the arc of each character, planning out the future, making sure you don't accidentally spoil something.

AND he has to synch up the game together, keeping track of what story beats happen in which order for the task tracker.

Then he has to put all of that in the game itself, and while copy and past will save time, you have to account for effects like the faces beside each dialogue box, and splitting up a line for dramatic effect across several clicks. All of that has to be programmed.

Now maybe his writing process is inefficient in some places and he could be faster. But overall, yeah it could definitely add up to 4 months in the writing phase depending on the size of the story.

Besides, I'm not expecting him to put in a full 8 hours a day for this game. Fuck that. I have other games I can play in the mean while. I'd rather he ease off the gas pedal so he doesn't burn out. Burn out will fuck over his long term creativity.
 

TrueJackal

Active Member
Jul 7, 2020
903
1,163
Yeah right? I don't know if these ass lickers get paid by the developer or something. There is no point in such a long update interval unless something bad happens. It's as simple as that. Don't be a fanboy and know how to speak the truth when the time comes.
I get paid when chapters release. For every comment I leave, the dev gives me 5 bucks. Also, I don't lick ass. I caress it with my tongue, and I don't neglect the balls.

> Don't be a fanboy and know how to speak the truth when the time comes.

Oh I can say various negative things about the game. But the release schedule complaint is always insane to me. As if the dev should be spending 16hours a day working perfectly efficiently to get the game out. As if we can't just play other games while we wait. It's like complaining that a cake takes 40 minutes to bake, then demanding the baker take it out at 20 minutes.

As for negative things, I don't like feeling like Sterling has to work 10 times as hard just to be liked. Sometimes the girls are being drugged into compliance, and that's difference. But sometimes the overall feeling is that Sterling gets no benefit of the doubt while other people (like Catherine) get all of it. And that feeling is similar to being cucked even if it's not literal NTR. Maybe there's a pay off being planned later on, or maybe that's just how the dev wants it to be, but yeah, I don't like that part of the writing.

I also hate how ugly Hunter is. And Kevin. I don't like ugly bastards in general and hate that he looks so awful. I'm so happy that Drew was introduced.
 

Kingkoopa97

Active Member
Nov 10, 2018
853
2,491
It definitely can take 4 months to be in the writing phase.

Not only is he writing the story, he's also writing the jokes, having to come up with wordplay in each of the scenes. As well as making sure that the writing is consistent, and doesn't contradict earlier parts of the story, so he has to keep track of everything.

You may have noticed that small things a character mentions in chapter 2 or 3, come back in chapter 10 or 11. Ophelia mentioned that she will be angry at Sterling if he gets cum on his bedroom wall. That was way back at the beginning of the game. Then in a recent chapter, she got really angry about it. A small throw away line like that, made a come back. And that's jut one example. There's also tracking the arc of each character, planning out the future, making sure you don't accidentally spoil something.

AND he has to synch up the game together, keeping track of what story beats happen in which order for the task tracker.

Then he has to put all of that in the game itself, and while copy and past will save time, you have to account for effects like the faces beside each dialogue box, and splitting up a line for dramatic effect across several clicks. All of that has to be programmed.

Now maybe his writing process is inefficient in some places and he could be faster. But overall, yeah it could definitely add up to 4 months in the writing phase depending on the size of the story.

Besides, I'm not expecting him to put in a full 8 hours a day for this game. Fuck that. I have other games I can play in the mean while. I'd rather he ease off the gas pedal so he doesn't burn out. Burn out will fuck over his long term creativity.
You know it’s ok to say the updates are starting to get a bit long in the tooth and not be a hater right?

I don’t have it in me anymore to read 5 paragraphs of cope. Im sure you made good points but in no way am I wrong in thinking 4 months writing is utter crap.

These jokes it’s taking months to write better come with a comedy special on netflix…
 

TrueJackal

Active Member
Jul 7, 2020
903
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Hey there, I am following the patreon, and yes, the updates are getting astronomically bigger leading up to each new chapter, in fact I dont think i've ever seen an update as big as what ch12 is shaping up to be ever out of any dev in this community.

But you cant deny that, the teasers have gotten significantly more sparse, he is skipping update dates on schedule, he did drop the percentage evaluation.
It seems like as we get closer and closer to release, instead of getting a more precise idea of the date of release, its getting more and more vague, the dev's comments on "How exhausting it is to do nothing but writing", "Im adding more stuff" dont help either.

I mean we're on the 21st already, if the release is actually set up for December there are not many options left.

I mean why wont he do something like that:
(Not word to word, but you know what I mean)

View attachment 3192157
All that's fair.

If I'm being charitable, I assume that he doesn't want to get people's hope's up by giving an estimation and having to constantly push back the dates.

On your end, it's understandable to want basic status updates. I don't fault you at all for that.
 

TrueJackal

Active Member
Jul 7, 2020
903
1,163
You know it’s ok to say the updates are starting to get a bit long in the tooth and not be a hater right?

I don’t have it in me anymore to read 5 paragraphs of cope. Im sure you made good points but in no way am I wrong in thinking 4 months writing is utter crap.

These jokes it’s taking months to write better come with a comedy special on netflix…
Yeah, I could have responded to the first guy by just saying "the updates take longer because the game got bigger". But some of those comments seem so low effort that it's annoying.
 

AvaRedux44

Newbie
Apr 28, 2018
20
56
I think WWG only gets the grace he does because the bar for devs on here is so fucking low. Seemingly 90% of devs on here lie to their patrons, don't give updates, don't offer any excuses, don't offer any explanations, and take 6 months to put out an update that takes 10 minutes to play through. To WWG's credit, when he puts out an update, it's a meaty, substantial update. Might be due to the gameplay cycle of having to go day by day, chasing down the events, but there's a good amount to it.

If the standards in general for game devs weren't so low, WWG would not get the kind of praise he does, I think.
 
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