Ren'Py Abandoned Power Vacuum [Ch. 12 Official] [What? Why? Games]

[Snugglepuff]

Yay a bigot who has no understanding of actual biology! How surprising. On the fucking list.

If Drew wants people to treat her like a girl so be it, we have no right to say otherwise and complain.

As for biology, apparently you still have a lot to find out, so bro, let's close the topic)))

Uh, you two do realise that all trans-women are still genetically male, right?
That's the point he was making.

As much as I disagree with a lot... well, most of what DD69-1 posts, he's not wrong in calling her "he". It's not necessarily "nice", but it's still correct.

 

[MAGO-DAG]

Uh, you two do realise that all trans-women are still genetically male, right?
That's the point he was making.

As much as I disagree with a lot... well, most of what DD69-1 posts, he's not wrong in calling her "he". It's not necessarily "nice", but it's still correct.

There are none like that where I live. but I have a neutral attitude towards such genitals, because they do nothing to me, I don’t owe them anything. I respect their business, they are mine. If he (she) feels out of place in a male body, knows mentally he wants to change something in himself, that’s all I heard, if so, then so be it, it’s their own business and since he feels exactly "She". ok, what do we get from this?
If you go to a trans woman and S/he greets you, how will you address her? I'm sure you'll freeze for a moment if you were actually going to address her as a man lol.

so it’s none of our business what others do and how they want to live, we have our own problems

 

[Fayn Arawn]

Was it ever explained why Drew her testicles removed?
Also I would like to know when she had them removed? Was it after or before Hunter and her were fucking both Keira and Nora.
Also I wonder if Hunter or Drew has got any other girls in the families they have meddled with pregnant?

I'm surprised you didn't learn this stuff in school, but I'll explain:

Drew still had testicles back when Drew was having sex with Keira, because Drew got Keira pregnant with Lucia. So Drew is Lucia's father, biologically speaking.

As part of Drew's transition from male to female, Drew decided to have her testicles removed, because they are the main source of testosterone, which is the hormone responsible for many "male" characteristics. Drew wants to appear outwardly as a female, which is easier to do with reduced testosterone.

 

[Snugglepuff]

There are none like that where I live.

So there's no trans-women where you live then.

If you go to a trans woman and S/he greets you, how will you address her? I'm sure you'll freeze for a moment if you were actually going to address her as a man lol.

That's entirely different.
I said nothing about addressing anyone, only that you two and your misplaced taunts concerning his understanding of biology were wrong. If anything, you two apparently don't understand biology whilst he does. Compared to the kinds of things he normally writes in this thread that are entirely subjective and come across like an entitled twit whining about not getting enough Ophelia time, you've made him seem like the rational and level-headed out of the three of you. Congratulations.

We're not obliged to address a trans-woman as "she", any more than as "he", and vice-versa for a trans-man It's our choice to address them as either, but calling a trans-woman a man/addressing one as "he" is not wrong in a factual/accuracy sense of the word.

 

[Dr. Mick]

it's basic biology... chromosomes and everything, I will refer to Drew as he, you guys can refer to Drew as you want
edit: The game just explained Drew's perspective and Hunter's perspective on it as well, when he called Drew out on the pronouns thingy

Uh, you two do realise that all trans-women are still genetically male, right?
That's the point he was making.

As much as I disagree with a lot... well, most of what DD69-1 posts, he's not wrong in calling her "he". It's not necessarily "nice", but it's still correct.

Chromosomes do not define gender, and to be blunt they don't definitively assign sex at birth either.
The genetic makeup of an individual is more complex than a standard set of 23 chromosome pairs. In addition to that, neither sex nor gender is a this or that classification. Beyond the antiquated binary classification, there are a number of genetic combinations that simply don't fit into a two category system. I'd be happy to explain the biology behind it if you're actually interested.

Outside of that, gender is not beholden to sex. It is, in simple terms, how someone chooses to identify themselves to society.
That's why calling someone he who identifies as a woman is not only disrespectful, it's also incorrect.
It would be similar to calling someone George who told you their name was Sarah.

 

[DickgirlEnjoyer]

Chromosomes do not define gender, and to be blunt they don't definitively assign sex at birth either.
The genetic makeup of an individual is more complex than a standard set of 23 chromosome pairs. In addition to that, neither sex nor gender is a this or that classification. Beyond the antiquated binary classification, there are a number of genetic combinations that simply don't fit into a two category system. I'd be happy to explain the biology behind it if you're actually interested.

Outside of that, gender is not beholden to sex. It is, in simple terms, how someone chooses to identify themselves to society.
That's why calling someone he who identifies as a woman is not only disrespectful, it's also incorrect.
It would be similar to calling someone George who told you their name was Sarah.

Thank you for writing this more eloquently and respectfully than I could have.

 

[MAGO-DAG]

So there's no trans-women where you live then.



That's entirely different.
I said nothing about addressing anyone, only that you two and your misplaced taunts concerning his understanding of biology were wrong. If anything, you two apparently don't understand biology whilst he does. Compared to the kinds of things he normally writes in this thread that are entirely subjective and come across like an entitled twit whining about not getting enough Ophelia time, you've made him seem like the rational and level-headed out of the three of you. Congratulations.

We're not obliged to address a trans-woman as "she", any more than as "he", and vice-versa for a trans-man It's our choice to address them as either, but calling a trans-woman a man/addressing one as "he" is not wrong in a factual/accuracy sense of the word.

Firstly, who has what orientation and how to address them is none of our business. secondly, where did I laugh at his biology? Did I mention that he has a lot of biology to work out because he avidly states that he will address Drew as "He" when Drew considers himself entirely female and logically should be addressed to Drew as "She"? This is some kind of strange showdown, to be honest, each of us, in our own opinion, understands how and what. but it would look awkward for me if I said to a trans-women, “Dude, how are you?”, and to a trans-man, I said, “Baby, how are you?”

Come on buddy, let's close topic, my head is already spinning, We weren’t born to reproach strangers about how they should live, right? we better worry about ourselves

 

[Grey Wolf 73]

I can hear the clock ticking away the seconds until this thread gets locked until a select batch of recent posts gets deleted.

/popcorn

 

[jhose15xs]

ahhh, 1st world people and their obsesion with identity
drew not produce ovules and can't give birth, he has a prostate and produce semen, he is a man thats it, if he want to be called a women is other thing totally apart from reality XD

 

[Fayn Arawn]

ahhh, 1st world people and their obsesion with identity
drew not produce ovules and can't give birth, he has a prostate and produce semen, he is a man thats it, if he want to be called a women is other thing totally apart from reality XD

What about people who get reproductive organs removed as cancer treatment? Are they still men and women? If so, maybe this is more nuanced then you thought?

 

[Snugglepuff]

What about people who get reproductive organs removed as cancer treatment? Are they still men and women? If so, maybe this is more nuanced then you thought?

There's no "nuance" in relation to what you've just written.

That example is terrible, and I'm sure every man and woman who's had to have their genitals removed because of cancer, would smack the shit out of you for using them like that.

 

[Fayn Arawn]

There's no "nuance" in relation to what you've just written.

That example is terrible, and I'm sure every man and woman who's had to have their genitals removed because of cancer, would smack the shit out of you for using them like that.

Ever heard of a rhetorical question? I thought my point was obvious, that his anatomy-based definition of men and women just doesn't hold up.

EDIT: To clarify (just in case), OF COURSE they are still men and women! (If they still want to smack the shit out of me for validating them, they're welcome to try!)

This means that the state of being a man or woman must be linked to something besides anatomy.

 

[Snugglepuff]

Ever heard of a rhetorical question? I thought my point was obvious, that his anatomy-based definition of men and women just doesn't hold up.

Except that it does hold up.
People like to throw around exceptions like some kind of "gotcha", failing to realise why they're exceptions in the first place. Yours is easily the most common one that gets used, followed by the extremely rare cases of genetic and feotal developmental disorders where someone's dna/chromosomes/gametes/physiology do not follow the norm like the majority of the human population.

 

[AVNTester2]

I think that was enough of that topic no?

 

[Dr. Mick]

ahhh, 1st world people and their obsesion with identity
drew not produce ovules and can't give birth, he has a prostate and produce semen, he is a man thats it, if he want to be called a women is other thing totally apart from reality XD

People like to throw around exceptions like some kind of "gotcha", failing to realise why they're exceptions in the first place. Yours is easily the most common one that gets used, followed by the extremely rare cases of genetic and feotal developmental disorders where someone's dna/chromosomes/gametes/physiology do not follow the norm like the majority of the human population.

None of which matters because, as I already pointed out, gender is not the same as sex assigned at birth.

If you want to state that you don't care about someone's identity that's certainly your choice. It's disrespectful, unfailingly rude, and ultimately harmful, yet it is your choice.
However, don't try to hide behind a misrepresentation of biology and genetics to attempt to justify your stance. It doesn't matter what configuration of chromosomes someone has, nor do anatomy, physiology, organs, or even genetics have anything to do with gender.

Gender is a societal identity, chosen by the individual, and separate from any other factor.

Period.

 

[Snugglepuff]

None of which matters because, as I already pointed out, gender is not the same as sex assigned at birth.

Doesn't apply to anything I wrote.

If you want to state that you don't care about someone's identity that's certainly your choice. It's disrespectful, unfailingly rude, and ultimately harmful, yet it is your choice.

I have not said or implied anything of the sort.
Go back read what I've been replying to, what I've written, and understand that I've said nothing either way about my views on the subject of an individual's gender identity.

However, don't try to hide behind a misrepresentation of biology and genetics to attempt to justify your stance.

The stance that biology can't be changed with surgery?
That's not a stance, it's a fact.
Altering appearance for the purpose of appearing as the opposite sex doesn't change the fact that an individual was born as, and is still that sex regardless of the changes made.

As I already said, and you must have missed it since you've only quoted a single post of mine on the subject so far, it is not incorrect for DD69-1 to view/address Drew as a man.
It's not nice, but it's not incorrect.

 

[Grey Wolf 73]

Damn, I need more popcorn.

 

[Snugglepuff]

Damn, I need more popcorn.

Sweet, buttered or salted?

 

[Dr. Mick]

Doesn't apply to anything I wrote.

As I already said, and you must have missed it since you've only quoted a single post of mine on the subject so far, it is not incorrect for DD69-1 to view/address Drew as a man.
It's not nice, but it's not incorrect.

You do realize I quoted someone else as well, right? Part of what I said was to them, and part to you.
Also quoted another post of yours earlier, the one containing the statement to which you're referring to the misgendering of Drew.
I quoted your more recent post because you appear to be making a corollary between sex and gender.

I've already said enough on the subject, and it seems the point is not coming across, so I'll reiterate as simply as possible:
If Drew identifies as a woman, which she does, and you're aware of that fact, which you are, calling her a man is indeed incorrect.

No other factors matter. None. Whatsoever.
Sex, biology, anatomy, genetics, chromosomes, physiology, organs, even medical records, are all irrelevant with regard to gender.
Drew identifies as a woman, so her gender is female; she is a she.

 

[Satou Pendragon]

Sweet, buttered or salted?

Salt n' Butter for me