VN Ren'Py Abandoned Primal Instinct [v0.07] [SilkandMilkProductions]

[m4pII]

I love this game very much.
In my humble opinion, one of the best on this site. Therefore, for some time I supported it on Patreon with my 5 bucks.
The mystical plot, characters, excellent renders, Meagan)
Everything was almost perfect.

But, unfortunately, the author has no one to blame but himself for what happened.

I still don't understand how he hoped to interest the public. He made no effort at all.
No communication on this site, no thoughts about plans for the future, etc. Only posts about the fact that he has little support and threats to stop development if something happens.
This site has frankly trashy games, which have support for 1k dollars, only because the developers are nice and friendly guys who know how to communicate with the crowd.

+ The author's expectations are too high.
In conditions of rare updates and lack of communication, the mission is impossible.

And as I see from his Patreon, he has not learned his lesson.
I'm sure the new game will be great, but what's the point of playing it and then getting frustrated when he will abandon it?

 

[yihman1]

I love this game very much.
In my humble opinion, one of the best on this site. Therefore, for some time I supported it on Patreon with my 5 bucks.
The mystical plot, characters, excellent renders, Meagan)
Everything was almost perfect.

But, unfortunately, the author has no one to blame but himself for what happened.

I still don't understand how he hoped to interest the public. He made no effort at all.
No communication on this site, no thoughts about plans for the future, etc. Only posts about the fact that he has little support and threats to stop development if something happens.
This site has frankly trashy games, which have support for 1k dollars, only because the developers are nice and friendly guys who know how to communicate with the crowd.

+ The author's expectations are too high.
In conditions of rare updates and lack of communication, the mission is impossible.

And as I see from his Patreon, he has not learned his lesson.
I'm sure the new game will be great, but what's the point of playing it and then getting frustrated when he will abandon it?

You have a lot of good points, but that's not the whole picture. I have a bit more nuanced view. A developer coming in to answer the FAQ in their own thread only does so much.

Look at DrPinkCake as an example in comparison to Silk&Milk. DrPinkCake has a total of 34 total comments (Between Being a Dik & Acting Lessons), and 0 comments since May 31st 2019. Being a Dik along has 5,744 pages of comments. His last comment was all the way back on page 233. That's almost 2 years without a peep from him. His patron support has grown from about 1,000 patrons to over 10,000 patrons in the same time frame.

Silk&Milk on the other hand has 48 comments by him in his thread. So, he was slightly more active than that much more successful developer. So, it's not like he never commented on his own game. He did have 48 comments. There was some degree of engagement with the fans.

EvaKiss has made 0 comments on GGGB & 0 on her newer game Our Red String, and she is doing just fine on patreon, I know she isn't hurting for supporters because of this. Both games are highly popular. So it is entirely possible to launch a successful project that generates a good revenue stream without engaging in the f95 forums, or by engaging in them only a small amount.

My point is that although engaging in the forums can help with money a little bit... The 10,000+ Supporters of Being A DIK argue that other factors are much more important.

I'm not sure how active any of these developers I mention are on Discord. They could be total chat whores or not say a word for all I know. I'm not on either of their discord servers.

As a marketing choice although "Silk&Milk" Rhymes it is a most unfortunate choice of names for a game developer. The guy has "Milk" in his name, and the last image a game developer wants to put in a potential supporters mind is a milker.

From a technical perspective Primal Instinct was executed with greatness. The renders are beautiful, the code is clean and tidy bug free, and I can not complain about the level of writing either. There is build up, and development and originality all present. Nor is it really a blue ball game either as it does have it's share of sexually charged scenes.

One major mistake I think that happened was when the mom fucked her coworker and imagined the son. That's NTR and is gonna be off putting to non NTR fans. Yes, it's all optional and she is lonely and it's all understandable, and the wierd eyed evil guy I forget his name one the island would probably at some point have fucked the red head, and may have become the equivalent of the "Eric" from big brother.

Then you got the fact that half the female cast is on a different land mass from the male protagonist. It's kinda hard to stick your dick in someone from across the ocean. The honeymoon dragged out too long. The whole long distance thing kills a lot of it. It would have been like if he went to Mars and was with his wife and a few others on Mars, but did the occasional video call with mom and sister. We live in an impatient world with impatient people. People want to binge watch the whole season on netflix, and not wait a week for each episode. People are not patient enough for mom and sis to reunite.

The game was also a bit more meant for an intelligent player than a coomer. It wants you to sit and think, and really use your brain to imagine what's really going on and suspend disbelief to follow the fantasy. While that can be fantastic, a lot of people want something more... dumbed down. They are only really interested in the sex.

It's not like the game had no support. It did have some support at around $400 which is mediocre, but not "game over man..." It's enough to work with.

The games downfall came when I believe S&M opened up Graphtron... Then he looked at the top 50 games on graphtron. Then he opened a few, and played a few, and said "My game is this good. My hard work is worth as much as these folks make, I deserve more money, and I'm going to tell the people I deserve more money. They will tout me as a hero, and chant my name in the streets when support starts rolling in! The squeeky wheel gets the grease!"

So, he psyched himself out. I'm just going to go out there and be brutally honest with the people, and let them know that Primal Instinct is a wonderful game that deserves more money. So, his request for more money came across as an ultimatum. He held his game hostage, and is going on strike now by making a new game based on his patreon income.

That's when the walls came tumbling down. He was seen as ungrateful, and greedy. It was a very poor marketing decision. The negative feedback given to him on that caused a chain reaction. He got less support then, so was discouraged so produced less... so got more negative feedback... so produced even less... and so on in a death spiral. It's like a feedback loop think of chernobly melting down.

Even though he fucked up, I respect this guy a million times more than a guy like gumdrop. Gumdrop is a scammer that puts out piano simulators after over 2 years and still has like 500 supporters after missing half a dozen self imposed deadlines.

S&M = "Honest Asshole" Strategy.
Gumdrop = "Lying Sweetheart" Strategy.

Sadly the market says the lying sweetheart strategy is better as it earns more money at least in this comparison.

For S&M To fix this sitaution he needs to... Oh god I don't even know if it can be fixed.

I think making releases, and being less vocal about his dissatisfaction about his low earnings is probably how to improve his situation. Then become a bit more active and positive for a change.

 

[m4pII]

I agree with almost everything, but I tried to write, in my opinion, for the most obvious reason.
If you can't get the audience interested in your talent (obvious talent), then you probably need to look for some other ways.

About Dr. Pinkcake and Eva Kiss. This is a unique cases when talent coincided with luck.
The same unique cases when developers openly spit on the audience, ignoring the site, not updating the patreon, and releasing an update once a year. But in some incredible way, constantly increasing subscribers.
So, there are frankly shitty games, with a rating of two stars, with constant criticism on the site, but with 2k support.

But in general, developers have no other way to grow their audience than by communicating on this site and discourse. I like your game, but do you think how much less support you would have on Patreon if you were not so friendly and active in communication?

About the plot. It was great. But the honeymoon was a little long. It didn't help that the author also tried to move the story with the help of minor characters. The bottom line is that by version 0.7 the end of the prologue is still not visible. I think he needed to focus on one thing, like a wedding trip. Or release updates for each character in turn.

I really liked the scene with MC's mom mentioned. It will sound silly, but I did not see any NTR there. From my point of view there was only dick from that guy) In fact, the sex was with her son. And in my opinion, it was a great scene in terms of staging and character development. After a long denial, she finally succumbs to temptation and admits to herself what she really wants.

I can call myself a fan of S＆M, or rather his work. And maybe I'll even support his next project. But judging by the patreon page, there is a huge chance that history will repeat itself again.

Which, of course, I really would not like

 

[mommysboiii]

I still dont understand how so many of you can be shocked about his goal? He prob works 8 hours a day and than in his free time works on this game where he only makes 200-300 bucks where he could meet friend or in my case play videogames all day long.He prob knows he has skill and want too do this full time so I can understand him.I feel sorry for his patreons that support him know I have the feeling that he never reach this goal and he will prob abonnd his next game too,but at least I can understand him doing this in you free time after work is prob exorsting as fuck.

Know about Evakiss and Drpinkcake the diff between both is that evakiss has skill and use it where drpinkcake (is the cyberpunk dev for me,he has the money ,he has 100% the skill to dev a realism game )but he dont want too or is scared of his patreons I dont know.

The reason why Evakiss is so successful is pure skill, it is easily the best visual novel on this site you have real decissions with consequences( like a visual novel sould have I dont see it in other games dont know why), beliveable cheracters that act how they are written, you have male cheracters that have more experice with women or less ,cheracters that have a smaller or bigger dick, friends and rivals women that need a very long time to sleep with and easier women and so on ... she has so many thinks that makes the world realistic.Most important her cheracters female and male life their own life that makes them realistic where in being a dik the females just stay in row too wait for MC and the male cheracters are only too make the illusion of a realistic world.

where in being a dik you have cheracters like josy that jump with you in a shower after one date? thats not how the cheracter is written and is pure fan service because if she would act like she is written everybody would cry because sex would be after episode 12 or something.cheracters like quinn that are evil and kinky? (she is completly vanilla) but thats not how she is written in the first place she hates maya and want to humailate her but in the newer episodes she ignores her?? prob becaus ntr cry bois or what ever but than dont make a cheracter like quinn. or hots that are introduced as total sluts? but are the personal harem for MC ofc Mc has the biggest dick and all other small dicks its a pure unrealistic visual novel with no decissions that makes 50.000 or more a month.The problem with his game is thats it is a pure unrealistic male fantasy even if he would have the skill to make a great visual novel and the money.

 

[lTTMl]

I still dont understand how so many of you can be shocked about his goal? He prob works 8 hours a day and than in his free time works on this game where he only makes 200-300 bucks where he could meet friend or in my case play videogames all day long.He prob knows he has skill and want too do this full time so I can understand him.I feel sorry for his patreons that support him know I have the feeling that he never reach this goal and he will prob abonnd his next game too,but at least I can understand him doing this in you free time after work is prob exorsting as fuck.

Know about Evakiss and Drpinkcake the diff between both is that evakiss has skill and use it where drpinkcake (is the cyberpunk dev for me,he has the money ,he has 100% the skill to dev a realism game )but he dont want too or is scared of his patreons I dont know.

The reason why Evakiss is so successful is pure skill, it is easily the best visual novel on this site you have real decissions with consequences( like a visual novel sould have I dont see it in other games dont know why), beliveable cheracters that act how they are written, you have male cheracters that have more experice with women or less ,cheracters that have a smaller or bigger dick, friends and rivals women that need a very long time to sleep with and easier women and so on ... she has so many thinks that makes the world realistic.Most important her cheracters female and male life their own life that makes them realistic where in being a dik the females just stay in row too wait for MC and the male cheracters are only too make the illusion of a realistic world.

where in being a dik you have cheracters like josy that jump with you in a shower after one date? thats not how the cheracter is written and is pure fan service because if she would act like she is written everybody would cry because sex would be after episode 12 or something.cheracters like quinn that are evil and kinky? (she is completly vanilla) but thats not how she is written in the first place she hates maya and want to humailate her but in the newer episodes she ignores her?? prob becaus ntr cry bois or what ever but than dont make a cheracter like quinn. or hots that are introduced as total sluts? but are the personal harem for MC ofc Mc has the biggest dick and all other small dicks its a pure unrealistic visual novel with no decissions that makes 50.000 or more a month.The problem with his game is thats it is a pure unrealistic male fantasy even if he would have the skill to make a great visual novel and the money.

I think after reading the words realistic and unrealistic several times, I'm gonna go to Summertime Saga, bye!

 

[botc76]

I don't think many people had any problem with the dev's goal. Merely with him demanding that the goal be fulfilled or game development stops.
That is a ridiculous approach, which not only scares away potential patrons, but also might irritate some already existing backers who feel as if their contribution isn't valued enough.
You can't DEMAND a fanbase for your game, you have to generate it, whether via this forum, discord or other means.

As for Pinkcake... the guy got the attention here, was very glad for the glowing reviews he got, started his discord and then stopped interacting here completely when people were upset about how the story in Acting Lessons developed, opting instead to just listen to all his white knights on his discord, who only blow glitter up his arse and don't allow any form of criticism of their messiah...er dev.
A behaviour much too familiar in the gaming community in general, where there are always those who will defend ANY crap a dev does, whether an AAA publisher's studio or an indie dev.

And I'm not saying the guy is a bad dev or that he NEEDS to engage here, but interacting only with people who unconditionally love everything you do, can't really be helpful for a creative process, IMO he is successful despite this, not because of it.

 

[lnppo]

I don't think many people had any problem with the dev's goal. Merely with him demanding that the goal be fulfilled or game development stops.
That is a ridiculous approach, which not only scares away potential patrons, but also might irritate some already existing backers who feel as if their contribution isn't valued enough.
You can't DEMAND a fanbase for your game, you have to generate it, whether via this forum, discord or other means.

As for Pinkcake... the guy got the attention here, was very glad for the glowing reviews he got, started his discord and then stopped interacting here completely when people were upset about how the story in Acting Lessons developed, opting instead to just listen to all his white knights on his discord, who only blow glitter up his arse and don't allow any form of criticism of their messiah...er dev.
A behaviour much too familiar in the gaming community in general, where there are always those who will defend ANY crap a dev does, whether an AAA publisher's studio or an indie dev.

And I'm not saying the guy is a bad dev or that he NEEDS to engage here, but interacting only with people who unconditionally love everything you do, can't really be helpful for a creative process, IMO he is successful despite this, not because of it.

I feel like people with no skin in the game (non-Patrons/donators) usually have the harshest criticisms.
Can't really blame Pinkcake for not wanting to sift through 100's of "worst game ever" posts from people who haven't given him a cent and never will just to get to the few constructive posts.

Of course if he was deleting criticism from his Discord that's wrong but this site is generally for developers who are trying to make it, not those who already have.
For those that have made it they can get away with filtering their communications to just customers, not "potential" customers.

 

[botc76]

I feel like people with no skin in the game (non-Patrons/donators) usually have the harshest criticisms.
Can't really blame Pinkcake for not wanting to sift through 100's of "worst game ever" posts from people who haven't given him a cent and never will just to get to the few constructive posts.

Of course if he was deleting criticism from his Discord that's wrong, but this site is generally for developers who are trying to make it, not those who already have.
For those that have made it they can get away with filtering their communications to just customers, not "potential" customers.

You do realize that many people here are actually backing games, some quite a lot, so that argumentation is inherently flawed.

 

[lnppo]

You do realize that many people here are actually backing games, some quite a lot, so that argumentation is inherently flawed.

We're posting on a site dedicated to piracy. I recognize that there are people who use this site that also support developers but the vast majority do not.

 

[Asmodean2]

This is a bit of a hidden gem; it's unfortunate that it did not get more traction. Interesting story, humorous banter between MC and wife, sexy lewd and extraordinary facial expressions.

 

[daemonblackfyre]

While I have only played the game for an hour or two, I already start to regret ever finding it.. Can't remember when was the last time I was as intrigued by a story as I am with this one. The way Mei looks / talks / dresses / behaves, the music, the mysticism, the oriental setting, the chemistry, the urges you can't really explain, the intrigue.. This reminds me of something from a long while ago, so hits close to home as well.

Don't know if this theme and mystery will be maintained as the game progresses, but still it is such a shame that this is not actively developed. Sometimes I wonder why games with simple and shallow plot attract so many followers, while complex and ambitious project never have a chance to flourish. Guess it is all about having a big name in the field etc. Well will enjoy what is already there and hope that it will be resumed in the future..

This is a bit of a hidden gem. Indeed I really hope this games will continued, I really hope the developer considers bringing this game again, a really thing he had a lot of chance to grow but he lose hope. I think he has a real talent. Please developer bring this game back from the death.

 

[Darth Bane]

This is a bit of a hidden gem. Indeed I really hope this games will continued, I really hope the developer considers bringing this game again, a really thing he had a lot of chance to grow but he lose hope. I think he has a real talent. Please developer bring this game back from the death.

Haven't been on this thread since PI was cancelled. The dev's got a new project.

 

[m4pII]

Haven't been on this thread since PI was cancelled. The dev's got a new project. View attachment 1221909

The new game, which, judging by his Patreon, will have huge intervals between updates and will sooner or later be canceled.

 

[mommysboiii]

The new game, which, judging by his Patreon, will have huge intervals between updates and will sooner or later be canceled.

cancel date:?????????

its such a shame I have too admit that he has talent but sadly I think you are right.

 

[The ArcKnight]

The problem is that the developer is his own worst enemy when it comes to interacting with the public.
In his own patreon post from back in Jan when he turned billing back on he mentions why he shelved Primal Instinct, due to lact of financial support. He goes on to say why he returned: "because I'm the best and outside of a number of games I can count on my hand, everything else is nightmare fuel." He goes on to list his requirements for even working on a new game, which reads like a list of demands.

The whole thing reeks of an unchecked ego and given his abandonment of this project, it wouldn't matter if he had the skills of Dr. Pink Cake mixed with Icstor and a little Veqvil on top, he'll never get public trust enough to even hit production goals.
I mean, I don't know about you, but I will never support people financially who think their god's gift to VN's when their only accomplishment is a single abandoned story. Plus, most people who pledge on patreon support multiple creators, so... by default he's basically saying all other games you support are trash but him...

As Botc76 stated, you can't demand an audience just because you're skilled, you have to spend time growing it. Not saying work for free but you have to have the passion behind a project to actually want to work on it, if you're just in it for the cash, it typically shows in your work and people respond much better to a passionate creator who might not have the best technical skill then one who has lots of skill but wont roll out of bed unless the money is right. I mean, look at how many games are made with Koi and other visual engines who do even modestly well on Patreon despite the graphics, not because of them.

Its a shame as this VN had a lot of good things going for it but yeah, in my humble opinion, the developer needs to get out of his own way in order to gain the fanbase he thinks he deserves.

 

[DanThaMan]

Lol..

 

[mommysboiii]

Lol.. View attachment 1247019

This musst be Todd Howard

 

[Avaron1974]

Feel like I have this on repeat now but if anyone is getting into this to make money then they fucked up.

It's going to fail for several reasons.

1. We're still in a global crisis with many people still not working and either living off savings or reduced wage, some are in worse state and barely getting by at all.

2. There are literally thousands of developers with new ones turning up daily trying to get a slice of a very small pie. People here are already backing their chosen developers and a lot of those that aren't backing anyone won't back devs without a proven track record.

3. Abandoning 1 project due to lack of funds then saying the next one will also be abandoned if people don;t show interest is the very pinnacle of shit marketing.

Look dev. Very few developers will ever make a living doing this. Those that earn over 1k a month are rare enough but those that can actually make a decent living are very few and far between. It takes the perfect storm of luck, a game that hooks people and a dev they want to support.

You've already turned people off from you by abandoning 1 project. Starting another isn't going to do any better.

The 1 and only way to make any money doing this if lucks against you is to finish 1 project and show people you give a shit about what you do. If you don't care and abandon something so easily, why the hell should we give a fuck?

Telling people you are going to drop a project if it doesn't make money is the BrightSunStudio method of developing and he was laughed off the site, literally. He abandoned a ton of projects that didn't make money and kept trying, even made alt accounts until it all came out and his chances of making money were zero.

You are on that road.

Good luck, you're gonna need a shit ton of it.

 

[Amahl Farouk]

I don't think many people had any problem with the dev's goal. Merely with him demanding that the goal be fulfilled or game development stops.
That is a ridiculous approach, which not only scares away potential patrons, but also might irritate some already existing backers who feel as if their contribution isn't valued enough.
You can't DEMAND a fanbase for your game, you have to generate it, whether via this forum, discord or other means.

I couldn't agree with this more. This dev is talented, good writing, great renders but he is such an entitled sob that I wouldn't touch him with tongs as a subscriber.. I mean how many devs try to pull what he is pulling? Everything on his patreon, absolutely everything is behind a pay wall (other than a rather washed out looking top banner and the renders for his payment levels and a public post about him saying he hasn't got enough money to release yet.

I get that he wants to make money but by god this man needs to do a course on how to build a large fan base, because this nickle and dime pettiness sure isn't it, at least from where I sit. He has already shown his willingness to totally abandon a project because he wasn't getting what he "deserved" so what is the point in getting invested in a game just to run the risk of having it shut down on a month by month basis, absolutely ludicrous.

He needs to reach out to highly successful devs and ask them how they built their fan base because he is clearly clueless in this regard, Utterly, absolutely and totally clueless.

 

[Zelldaa]

The game's been abandoned?