- Nov 14, 2017
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- Thread starter monroe
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- Aug 27, 2020
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Several good comments in this latest batch.
c3p0 I don't think this is 6 pages
The fight....
It will be a big bad assed fur ball in my opinion. Ereskigal will not directly be involved, she will invoke her bloodline powers and force the Nos to turn on the Scottstown crew. There might be some extras in that battle, as Virgil could be in town. Eloise is in town. Malia and Glitter could well be in town, Glitter is for sure...I think it is safe to assume Fabian is gone, and Cindy, Astrid (if you gave her up) and Calisto of course. So it could quite literally be the Nos against all others, or the Nos and add ons against all the Scottstown crew. I think there is a small chance that Frank and Merrick might fight for the Scottstown crew, but I would not want to bet on it.
I am leaning against a direct intervention by Virgil unless he sees a value in saving the MC's life, which I do not think he really does except for the possibility of exposing Calisto again. He could have other agents in town though, we shall see I guess.
Scottstown crew is going to get it's ass kicked. That means deaths.- Laurie is definitely going to die in this. Will she be brought back by Sharon? That goes back to the variable we keep discussing. I think that Laurie going down is going to shred the MC mentally and emotionally, and he is definitely going to get more soul stain if you have developed his powers properly. Truthfully I think it will be a pretty powerful moment that is going to reveal to any survivors just how big a deal Calisto and her childer are. Think is in the middle of this fight, if he opens the power of speed/celerity up. Add that to Claws, Invisibility, Vicious Strength, Whispers, his obvious psychic visions, his heightened senses.... he is going to be a nightmare.
I could be completely wrong.... The MC might not do any of the above. If he has not gotten the powers, then he will use the dagger. A smarter move for him is to give the dagger to Sharon, and use his powers.
Sharon will be taken out of the fight if she has a high SharonSavesLaurie score. She will be saving Laurie.
Andrew is going to kill shit until he goes down... that could happen. Think of the cost to Sharon if she has to choose to save Laurie due to her love of the MC, or Andrew her friend and faithful servant.
Ivy is not going to be much help I am thinking... probably in shock at seeing all the crazy shit.
If Frank and Merrick switch sides then it would still be poor odds. If they don't then it is going to basically be Andrew and the MC breaking bad. That is my bet.
Outline of fights in Rebirth-
1- The woods. Something brushed past Sharon and nearly killed her, forcing her to feed on the MC's blood. This was planned and the thing was most likely Calisto herself as she has the most skill and control over her powers and could scrape Sharon and put her down. Now Sharon is probably unnaturally tough, like a Fortitude power, which would fit what I believe her VtM clan equivalent is, which is Ventrue. She has Presence, some increased senses, and her Domination (eyes) thing.
2- Feral Nos. I believe the Feral Nos was the last survivor from the bunker, and served as a blood slave for Ereshkigal until she was driven insane, which cost her a lot of her powers, and drove her to that feral state. I think she was Markus' sire.
3- Hunters vs MC. Hunters lost either due to you developing your powers and beating their asses, or Andrew rescuing you.
4- Merrick's ill fated attempt to attack the MC. Vicious Strength is a bitch.
5- This update. I "Think" this will be all the Nos vs basically Andrew, Laurie, Sharon and the MC. Ivy probably not a combat monster in the least, though she was sensitive to the presence in the cave.... that does make her interesting.
6- Virgil vs Calisto round 2. Probably epic. Probably lots of fatalities. Not Calisto. Not the MC. Could have some initial smackdowns on Marcius by the MC, which would be satisfying.
7- Ereshkigal rising- blood bath
8- Inanna rising- blood bath
(7 and 8 ideally would occur roughly at the same time, or it will not be pretty... well fuck that, it is not going to be pretty regardless lol)
9- The sisters duke it out. All bets are off on survivors..... (Calisto, MC, Sharon, Carmen, Laurie, Ivy, and all the mortals, Fabian,Cindy, Roland, and all the Archons, are all on the block.... who knows who lives)
Change of topic.....
Sharon has the wrong view of ghouls/thralls. Yes Andrew is in fact stronger than a normal human and functions as the mule quite often. He is also a veteran of WW2 based on age calculations and his military knowledge and weapon skills.
He is not more powerful than Laurie.
Laurie already has heightened senses, several examples of that, and yes, Andrew wear sunglasses at night, but if he had Auspex like powers it would not impede him. Laurie is stronger than her build would otherwise indicate. She is also probably more durable.
She has high intuition which likely comes from the visionary gene if you want to call it that. She also has been fed more frequently than Andrew during the course of the story. Sharon starves him to try and keep him as human and independent as possible, but he is lacking in many powers he could have picked up in 70 years of service.
Some morons have tried to attribute various kinks to the story, because they refuse to understand the explanations or just are not getting it. This is a story about vampires and a war between two big bloodlines, with some extras thrown in. It is not written as a sex novel. Never has been the intent.
Misogyny is not present except in certain characters. They two most powerful vampires in the game (and contenders for the world) are females. Carmen, who would have been useful to bring, is a strong female, and I am betting, she becomes the MC's childe. Sharon is nominally in charge of Scottstown, even though we know that the MC really is. There are several powerful women in this novel, and it bears repeating Calisto, Inanna, Ereshkigal, are women, and are the top 3 powers in this game.
To address the wouldn't it be great if Laurie was XYZ, well, yeah it would be better for her in all likelihood to remain the ghoul/thrall of the MC for a long time instead of being a relatively weaker bloodline's vampire...... It would be cool if I could find the USB key I have 1000 bitcoins on too.... but too many moves and that fucker was lost. Laurie will either die, or she will be Sharon's childe. I am betting all my gonads on that.
I predict that no matter how this fight plays out, there will be people who want to argue about it.
I am good with that, as long as it stays civil. Through civil disagreement we might refine the theories about where we are going.
Just do this please, REALLY, please at least read the story, go to the VtM wiki and read the synopsis, look up ancient Greek and Sumerian mythology, if you really want to try and tear down the plot lines we are all working on trying to figure out. Those sources will at least let you make intelligent additions to the conversation.
Peace
c3p0 I don't think this is 6 pages
The fight....
It will be a big bad assed fur ball in my opinion. Ereskigal will not directly be involved, she will invoke her bloodline powers and force the Nos to turn on the Scottstown crew. There might be some extras in that battle, as Virgil could be in town. Eloise is in town. Malia and Glitter could well be in town, Glitter is for sure...I think it is safe to assume Fabian is gone, and Cindy, Astrid (if you gave her up) and Calisto of course. So it could quite literally be the Nos against all others, or the Nos and add ons against all the Scottstown crew. I think there is a small chance that Frank and Merrick might fight for the Scottstown crew, but I would not want to bet on it.
I am leaning against a direct intervention by Virgil unless he sees a value in saving the MC's life, which I do not think he really does except for the possibility of exposing Calisto again. He could have other agents in town though, we shall see I guess.
Scottstown crew is going to get it's ass kicked. That means deaths.- Laurie is definitely going to die in this. Will she be brought back by Sharon? That goes back to the variable we keep discussing. I think that Laurie going down is going to shred the MC mentally and emotionally, and he is definitely going to get more soul stain if you have developed his powers properly. Truthfully I think it will be a pretty powerful moment that is going to reveal to any survivors just how big a deal Calisto and her childer are. Think is in the middle of this fight, if he opens the power of speed/celerity up. Add that to Claws, Invisibility, Vicious Strength, Whispers, his obvious psychic visions, his heightened senses.... he is going to be a nightmare.
I could be completely wrong.... The MC might not do any of the above. If he has not gotten the powers, then he will use the dagger. A smarter move for him is to give the dagger to Sharon, and use his powers.
Sharon will be taken out of the fight if she has a high SharonSavesLaurie score. She will be saving Laurie.
Andrew is going to kill shit until he goes down... that could happen. Think of the cost to Sharon if she has to choose to save Laurie due to her love of the MC, or Andrew her friend and faithful servant.
Ivy is not going to be much help I am thinking... probably in shock at seeing all the crazy shit.
If Frank and Merrick switch sides then it would still be poor odds. If they don't then it is going to basically be Andrew and the MC breaking bad. That is my bet.
Outline of fights in Rebirth-
1- The woods. Something brushed past Sharon and nearly killed her, forcing her to feed on the MC's blood. This was planned and the thing was most likely Calisto herself as she has the most skill and control over her powers and could scrape Sharon and put her down. Now Sharon is probably unnaturally tough, like a Fortitude power, which would fit what I believe her VtM clan equivalent is, which is Ventrue. She has Presence, some increased senses, and her Domination (eyes) thing.
2- Feral Nos. I believe the Feral Nos was the last survivor from the bunker, and served as a blood slave for Ereshkigal until she was driven insane, which cost her a lot of her powers, and drove her to that feral state. I think she was Markus' sire.
3- Hunters vs MC. Hunters lost either due to you developing your powers and beating their asses, or Andrew rescuing you.
4- Merrick's ill fated attempt to attack the MC. Vicious Strength is a bitch.
5- This update. I "Think" this will be all the Nos vs basically Andrew, Laurie, Sharon and the MC. Ivy probably not a combat monster in the least, though she was sensitive to the presence in the cave.... that does make her interesting.
6- Virgil vs Calisto round 2. Probably epic. Probably lots of fatalities. Not Calisto. Not the MC. Could have some initial smackdowns on Marcius by the MC, which would be satisfying.
7- Ereshkigal rising- blood bath
8- Inanna rising- blood bath
(7 and 8 ideally would occur roughly at the same time, or it will not be pretty... well fuck that, it is not going to be pretty regardless lol)
9- The sisters duke it out. All bets are off on survivors..... (Calisto, MC, Sharon, Carmen, Laurie, Ivy, and all the mortals, Fabian,Cindy, Roland, and all the Archons, are all on the block.... who knows who lives)
Change of topic.....
Sharon has the wrong view of ghouls/thralls. Yes Andrew is in fact stronger than a normal human and functions as the mule quite often. He is also a veteran of WW2 based on age calculations and his military knowledge and weapon skills.
He is not more powerful than Laurie.
Laurie already has heightened senses, several examples of that, and yes, Andrew wear sunglasses at night, but if he had Auspex like powers it would not impede him. Laurie is stronger than her build would otherwise indicate. She is also probably more durable.
She has high intuition which likely comes from the visionary gene if you want to call it that. She also has been fed more frequently than Andrew during the course of the story. Sharon starves him to try and keep him as human and independent as possible, but he is lacking in many powers he could have picked up in 70 years of service.
Some morons have tried to attribute various kinks to the story, because they refuse to understand the explanations or just are not getting it. This is a story about vampires and a war between two big bloodlines, with some extras thrown in. It is not written as a sex novel. Never has been the intent.
Misogyny is not present except in certain characters. They two most powerful vampires in the game (and contenders for the world) are females. Carmen, who would have been useful to bring, is a strong female, and I am betting, she becomes the MC's childe. Sharon is nominally in charge of Scottstown, even though we know that the MC really is. There are several powerful women in this novel, and it bears repeating Calisto, Inanna, Ereshkigal, are women, and are the top 3 powers in this game.
To address the wouldn't it be great if Laurie was XYZ, well, yeah it would be better for her in all likelihood to remain the ghoul/thrall of the MC for a long time instead of being a relatively weaker bloodline's vampire...... It would be cool if I could find the USB key I have 1000 bitcoins on too.... but too many moves and that fucker was lost. Laurie will either die, or she will be Sharon's childe. I am betting all my gonads on that.
I predict that no matter how this fight plays out, there will be people who want to argue about it.
I am good with that, as long as it stays civil. Through civil disagreement we might refine the theories about where we are going.
Just do this please, REALLY, please at least read the story, go to the VtM wiki and read the synopsis, look up ancient Greek and Sumerian mythology, if you really want to try and tear down the plot lines we are all working on trying to figure out. Those sources will at least let you make intelligent additions to the conversation.
Peace
- Jan 25, 2022
- 34
- 62
Not sure why you feel the insult is necessary but I suspect you addressed what I said earlier because I used the expression NTR. But I am not talking about the sexual kink, but the fact that there is a strong bond between Sharon and Astrid, possibly at the expense of the MC. And I think there is in fact desire involved, in the sense that the inner beast is driven by carnal desires and that Sharon had to center herself after being confronted with Astrid the first time. It's more that loss of control, the ability of Astrid to bring Sharon out of balance and manipulate her despite Sharons best efforts to prevent that. I'd like to know more about the nature of their former relationship and what lever Astrid is using to have that effect on Sharon. It's a mystery so far.
Yeah. Thanks but no thanks. I'm here to comment on and enjoy this VN. Unless the writers decide to direct us at outside sources to which this world they've created adhere, I'm really not interested in endless speculation about how this story might fit with various vampire mythologies, novels, games, or game systems. You're not trying to figure out the plot lines presented here. You're trying to reverse engineer the structure and fabric that the writers developed to create this VN. Plot lines are analyzed based on the content and plot presented in the writing, no speculating about which parts of other writing they may have based their writing on.Several good comments in this latest batch.
c3p0 I don't think this is 6 pages
...
Just do this please, REALLY, please at least read the story, go to the VtM wiki and read the synopsis, look up ancient Greek and Sumerian mythology, if you really want to try and tear down the plot lines we are all working on trying to figure out. Those sources will at least let you make intelligent additions to the conversation.
Peace
Information not presented in this VN is uninteresting. I understand the drive of various commenters here to fit this VN's structure of vampire capabilities and social structure into other contexts, but I feel free to comment only based on the content presented here and will continue to so do.
Several good comments in this latest batch.
c3p0 I don't think this is 6 pages
The fight....
It will be a big bad assed fur ball in my opinion. Ereskigal will not directly be involved, she will invoke her bloodline powers and force the Nos to turn on the Scottstown crew. There might be some extras in that battle, as Virgil could be in town. Eloise is in town. Malia and Glitter could well be in town, Glitter is for sure...I think it is safe to assume Fabian is gone, and Cindy, Astrid (if you gave her up) and Calisto of course. So it could quite literally be the Nos against all others, or the Nos and add ons against all the Scottstown crew. I think there is a small chance that Frank and Merrick might fight for the Scottstown crew, but I would not want to bet on it.
I am leaning against a direct intervention by Virgil unless he sees a value in saving the MC's life, which I do not think he really does except for the possibility of exposing Calisto again. He could have other agents in town though, we shall see I guess.
Scottstown crew is going to get it's ass kicked. That means deaths.- Laurie is definitely going to die in this. Will she be brought back by Sharon? That goes back to the variable we keep discussing. I think that Laurie going down is going to shred the MC mentally and emotionally, and he is definitely going to get more soul stain if you have developed his powers properly. Truthfully I think it will be a pretty powerful moment that is going to reveal to any survivors just how big a deal Calisto and her childer are. Think is in the middle of this fight, if he opens the power of speed/celerity up. Add that to Claws, Invisibility, Vicious Strength, Whispers, his obvious psychic visions, his heightened senses.... he is going to be a nightmare.
I could be completely wrong.... The MC might not do any of the above. If he has not gotten the powers, then he will use the dagger. A smarter move for him is to give the dagger to Sharon, and use his powers.
Sharon will be taken out of the fight if she has a high SharonSavesLaurie score. She will be saving Laurie.
Andrew is going to kill shit until he goes down... that could happen. Think of the cost to Sharon if she has to choose to save Laurie due to her love of the MC, or Andrew her friend and faithful servant.
Ivy is not going to be much help I am thinking... probably in shock at seeing all the crazy shit.
If Frank and Merrick switch sides then it would still be poor odds. If they don't then it is going to basically be Andrew and the MC breaking bad. That is my bet.
Outline of fights in Rebirth-
1- The woods. Something brushed past Sharon and nearly killed her, forcing her to feed on the MC's blood. This was planned and the thing was most likely Calisto herself as she has the most skill and control over her powers and could scrape Sharon and put her down. Now Sharon is probably unnaturally tough, like a Fortitude power, which would fit what I believe her VtM clan equivalent is, which is Ventrue. She has Presence, some increased senses, and her Domination (eyes) thing.
2- Feral Nos. I believe the Feral Nos was the last survivor from the bunker, and served as a blood slave for Ereshkigal until she was driven insane, which cost her a lot of her powers, and drove her to that feral state. I think she was Markus' sire.
3- Hunters vs MC. Hunters lost either due to you developing your powers and beating their asses, or Andrew rescuing you.
4- Merrick's ill fated attempt to attack the MC. Vicious Strength is a bitch.
5- This update. I "Think" this will be all the Nos vs basically Andrew, Laurie, Sharon and the MC. Ivy probably not a combat monster in the least, though she was sensitive to the presence in the cave.... that does make her interesting.
6- Virgil vs Calisto round 2. Probably epic. Probably lots of fatalities. Not Calisto. Not the MC. Could have some initial smackdowns on Marcius by the MC, which would be satisfying.
7- Ereshkigal rising- blood bath
8- Inanna rising- blood bath
(7 and 8 ideally would occur roughly at the same time, or it will not be pretty... well fuck that, it is not going to be pretty regardless lol)
9- The sisters duke it out. All bets are off on survivors..... (Calisto, MC, Sharon, Carmen, Laurie, Ivy, and all the mortals, Fabian,Cindy, Roland, and all the Archons, are all on the block.... who knows who lives)
Change of topic.....
Sharon has the wrong view of ghouls/thralls. Yes Andrew is in fact stronger than a normal human and functions as the mule quite often. He is also a veteran of WW2 based on age calculations and his military knowledge and weapon skills.
He is not more powerful than Laurie.
Laurie already has heightened senses, several examples of that, and yes, Andrew wear sunglasses at night, but if he had Auspex like powers it would not impede him. Laurie is stronger than her build would otherwise indicate. She is also probably more durable.
She has high intuition which likely comes from the visionary gene if you want to call it that. She also has been fed more frequently than Andrew during the course of the story. Sharon starves him to try and keep him as human and independent as possible, but he is lacking in many powers he could have picked up in 70 years of service.
Some morons have tried to attribute various kinks to the story, because they refuse to understand the explanations or just are not getting it. This is a story about vampires and a war between two big bloodlines, with some extras thrown in. It is not written as a sex novel. Never has been the intent.
Misogyny is not present except in certain characters. They two most powerful vampires in the game (and contenders for the world) are females. Carmen, who would have been useful to bring, is a strong female, and I am betting, she becomes the MC's childe. Sharon is nominally in charge of Scottstown, even though we know that the MC really is. There are several powerful women in this novel, and it bears repeating Calisto, Inanna, Ereshkigal, are women, and are the top 3 powers in this game.
To address the wouldn't it be great if Laurie was XYZ, well, yeah it would be better for her in all likelihood to remain the ghoul/thrall of the MC for a long time instead of being a relatively weaker bloodline's vampire...... It would be cool if I could find the USB key I have 1000 bitcoins on too.... but too many moves and that fucker was lost. Laurie will either die, or she will be Sharon's childe. I am betting all my gonads on that.
I predict that no matter how this fight plays out, there will be people who want to argue about it.
I am good with that, as long as it stays civil. Through civil disagreement we might refine the theories about where we are going.
Just do this please, REALLY, please at least read the story, go to the VtM wiki and read the synopsis, look up ancient Greek and Sumerian mythology, if you really want to try and tear down the plot lines we are all working on trying to figure out. Those sources will at least let you make intelligent additions to the conversation.
Peace
Sorry if you've answered these questions before feel free to just link me your previous answers. Maybe I missed something because I haven't replayed the game so Act 1/2 is pretty faded in my memory but who is Inanna? The girl you see in the visions? I guess the thing in the water is Ereshkigal (did they use that name in game? I don't remember seeing it).
Why would Virgil and Calisto fight? I didn't know they hated each other. If they hated each other why wouldn't they have fought any time in the past idk 1000 years as opposed to now? I mean it doesn't seem like either of them are hiding from the other and if they hate each other that much shouldn't something have happened already?
Okay so you're saying that MC is 5th gen so Calisto is 4th gen. From what I've read on the VTM wiki that's extremely low gen, there's not a whole lot of room left. Given that LikesBlondes said the "vision girl" is so much older than Calisto that she's basically a legend like Calisto is to Sharon and co. wouldn't that mean the "vision girl" is like 1st or 2nd gen?
Why would a 1st or 2nd gen insanely powerful vamp care about Calisto's random new childe?
- Jul 10, 2017
- 21,624
- 26,694
Coming off a lengthy underworld series of movies and the vampire diaries,
immortals have peculiar ways to occupy their time.
Seeing through your progeny blood all the explits of her own pregeny,
like the blood lust babe is doing many times with MC, that is the kind of dream state super power
a sleeping queen of the damned petrified on a throne in some yet unbdiscovered pyramid throne room,
now that is a possibility to behold ... while you watch queen of the damned.
immortals have peculiar ways to occupy their time.
Seeing through your progeny blood all the explits of her own pregeny,
like the blood lust babe is doing many times with MC, that is the kind of dream state super power
a sleeping queen of the damned petrified on a throne in some yet unbdiscovered pyramid throne room,
now that is a possibility to behold ... while you watch queen of the damned.
- Aug 1, 2018
- 1,063
- 4,603
Vision girl is likely 2nd generation but im not that good with greek Mythology while Arigon can explain it better then me
Below i posted a basic list of generation and a time line of when they were created * Generation Wise
|*Generation*| Date of Embrace*|*Major Event*|
1. |14th|Yesterday| *
2. |13th|2000 AD| *
3. |12th|1950 AD| WWII
4. |11th|1900 AD| WWI
5. |10th|1800 AD| *
6. |9th|1700 AD | *
7. |8th|1500 AD| Columbian Exchange, End of the Reconquista|
8. |7th|1300 AD| Black Plague|
9. |6th|900 AD|| *
10. |5th|200 AD| Fall of Rome|
11. |4th|2500 BC| The Flood|
12. |3rd| ????|BC ?????
About your Question on why She would care about Calisto's new Child.
Like Ancient Vampires have to power to influence other vampires.
See with the creature (Ereshkigal) We saw in the cave she could influence the nos to bring her food.
So basically She has some influence over you. What we are basically thinking. What She is doing with MC is, Basically running a rescue mission.
To rescue herself from the underworld by killing her Sister Ereshkigal
Hmmm well the generation timing of vampires doesn't make a whole lot of sense, what did the 5th generation somehow just decide not to embrace anybody for 700 years?
That's weird but that aside okay so the influence part makes sense but what exactly does she expect the MC to do? Like if Ereshkigal is 2nd generation than she'd be way out of the MC's league and even Calisto's league in theory. I guess she'll scheme up something. Anyway thanks for clearing that up for me.
- Dec 4, 2017
- 3,915
- 10,177
From the VTM lore, which this game is heavily inspired from.
|3rd| ca 8000 ~ 10.000 BC
The progenitors of the 13 vampire clans, cursed by Caine (like sun is lethal to them)
|2nd| ca 10.000 BC
only 3 of them, presumed all dead, diablerized by the 3rd generation
|1st| ca 200.000 BC
Cain, son of Adam and Eve, cursed by god for being the first murderer, teached by Lilith etc. etc.
Althought 3rd and lower generations are a myth to most so are the storys/legends about their origin, or them in general...so no really accurate infos, be it their age, origin or powers.
Generation isn't about time, but potency of their blood. When a vamp embraces a new child it has a bit less blood potency as the creator and as such is weaker, one generation higher than him/her. The lower the generation the closer to the origin and more powerfull.
3rd gen and below are godlike beings, sleeping for millennia, none really expects one of them waking up, even less accidentally walking into one of their lairs, most don't even know or believe in their existence.
And yes, way out of league for the MC as well as Calisto. The only real chance for Calisto would be if they would still be in torpor or extremely weakend and with help of other powerful vamps.
But awakend, only one of the sisters has a chance against the other. MC, Callisto and co are only pawns on their board, likely with the goal to ensure to be the first one to regenerate their strenght and beat the other sister, while she is still weakend.
|3rd| ca 8000 ~ 10.000 BC
The progenitors of the 13 vampire clans, cursed by Caine (like sun is lethal to them)
|2nd| ca 10.000 BC
only 3 of them, presumed all dead, diablerized by the 3rd generation
|1st| ca 200.000 BC
Cain, son of Adam and Eve, cursed by god for being the first murderer, teached by Lilith etc. etc.
Althought 3rd and lower generations are a myth to most so are the storys/legends about their origin, or them in general...so no really accurate infos, be it their age, origin or powers.
Just use the timescale as a reference for a standart when most of these generations where created. If we take MC presumed 5th gen as example, that would mean most of the 5 gen are several thausand years old, doesn't change one thing about the MC, except that most other 5th gen would have a large advantage in age, experience, powerbase(minions, wealth, politics) ect.
Generation isn't about time, but potency of their blood. When a vamp embraces a new child it has a bit less blood potency as the creator and as such is weaker, one generation higher than him/her. The lower the generation the closer to the origin and more powerfull.
Calisto has in all likelihood no fucking clue that there is a such a powerfull vamp in there.
3rd gen and below are godlike beings, sleeping for millennia, none really expects one of them waking up, even less accidentally walking into one of their lairs, most don't even know or believe in their existence.
And yes, way out of league for the MC as well as Calisto. The only real chance for Calisto would be if they would still be in torpor or extremely weakend and with help of other powerful vamps.
But awakend, only one of the sisters has a chance against the other. MC, Callisto and co are only pawns on their board, likely with the goal to ensure to be the first one to regenerate their strenght and beat the other sister, while she is still weakend.
- Aug 4, 2017
- 1,146
- 12,752
You don't remember seeing it, because neither has been named in the game. The VTM fans merely speculate those are their identities & generation/power. In fact we don't know yet who they are, how old they are, how powerful they are, or what their broader agendas are.
The only established facts are the thing in the water is old, because it's been underground for a long time, well before Markus was turned (he & his sire appear to have been unaware of it). From Frank's encounter we know she wants to get free & has been using Nos to do so, but they all expired before she got out.
In game they aren't fighting & don't hate each other per se, again that's just speculation. They're likely competitors, because they're from different power structures (city gov. vs temple) but there's been no signs of open conflict between these individuals or groups in game.
We don't know why vision girl is linked to the MC, it's yet to be explained in game.
Arigon Yes that's certainly true, the problem is your assumption that refers to vision girl. If anything it could more aptly apply to the thing in the water? The MC is asking Frode about his visions of the cave, rather than vision girls dreams (which he hasn't mentioned to anyone iirc). And Frode talks about Inanna struggling to escape, which the big bad is doing more so than vision girl. Conversely it could be refering to vision girl as the ultimate source of the visions (of the cave etc.). Assuming it's not a general reference to the continued existence of ancients. As I said, until they actually name the characters in game we don't know who they are.
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I meant it didn't make sense in that generations should be roughly the same number of years apart even for immortals. Maybe this is just something you're supposed to ignore but to me it doesn't make sense that there's a large difference in the number of years between generations. Did a generation somehow have a pact not to make any more vampires for a while?
Okay fair enough so this is mostly extrapolation from outside the game. You mention here that Marcus's sire didn't know about it. I don't remember reading anything about Marcus's sire, when was this?
- Jan 26, 2021
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well it was the dawn of farming so as the amount of cattle grew (as in number of humans) there must have been an explosion of vampires that threatened to wreak the world dry off blood so some vampires took responsibilities by villages and protected those villages from other vampires thus becoming living gods to that heard... eventually villages coalesced into alliances and civilizations!
since every village had their own 2nd 3rd generation vampire protecting them the stranded who did not assume the role of gods could only feed on Shepard´s who got away too far from the villages!
before farming vampires probably hunted hunter gatherers or some of the semi permanent settlements that existed for months to take advantage of some resources!
so vampires adapted and thrived on their new environments!
that`s why whenever someone talks about the oldies they refer the middle east since its the craddle of civilization!
so perhaps vampires still reproduced except that without a fallowing calling you a god it was hard to keep a mausoleum/pyramid/zigurat or a god´s carriage to escape the sun and those vampires where easy preys for the sun or other vampires or their followers!
so not that there was peace but those lower generation vampires had no suitable habitat!
thats my best conjecture! farming increased the human population but also provoked some cultural changes in the vampires who had to create a vampire society! depending on feeding habits it would take a village of 120 to 300 fully grown humans to feed a vampire for a year without creating too much weakness on the heard!
up until the appearance of the Sumerian city states that could feed between 5 to 20 vampires another vampire in your village literally sucked off your resources to fight other vampires in case of attack so as to keep your heard of humans healthy enough to allow you a stylish lifestyle and proper feed you could not waste resources!
there might have been a state of cold war so breeding might cost something out of the father/mother plus the childe would require sharing the resources and any such weakness could lead another village with their vampire to attack to capture cattle or even take over that specific fertile ground!
i can imagine a village setting up a carriage of the gods (so insulated carriage where the sun could not get in...) and wait for their god to awake to attack another village to steal women food cattle or take over a more fertile specific swamp land!
why not both? i mean with some good luck you get a twins threesome!
as to extrapolate on the theory rationalized above!
culturally the vampires are still a bronze age culture!
they send a thrall to find a proper spot in the midle of a new setlement
grant themselves an Archony with the support of several of their neighbors
so that in case of attack the new archon can have some help
then find the head hunter or whatever military authority that can organize a raid against the new "mausoleum"
once the strength of arms that can oppose them is secured find the head priest or king or whatever and make them support you!
the fact that they can not thrall the head priest (or Mayor in our specific case) shows that vampires still prefer to hide from the general population!
an a thralled Mayor would risk the population to revolt... not like enough must have been destroyed before all humans accepter their local "diety"
it was probably when the vamp hunters appeared since a new village without a protector or a suitable enough vampire god could get exterminate and the survivors would gather their strenght and go out hunting vampire or in attempts to infiltrate the gods quartersmore "tolerant"
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When the MC & Markus go to recon the hideout the MC asks him if he's been here before. If you're on good terms with Markus he'll tell you about it.
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Ileana presumably wouldn't be setting up a Nos safe-haven hideout on top of a dangerous elder that sends Nos crazy if they knew about her. Clearly it didn't send Markus crazy during his time there either, and he still doesn't sense it now from the cavern entrance.
This is where Arigon gets his theory that the feral at the abandoned hospital is the deranged Ileana, because Ileana used to hang out near the big bad. Personally I think that's a giant leap, and there's no evidence in game yet that the feral was Ileana.
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hi
So D3xzalias is giving a broad generalization there to kind of frame things.
This world is not the world of darkness. However: The developer freely admits a great deal of inspiration from their bodies of work. Not so much the newer 5th edition, non White Wolf stuff, but harkening more back to the 2nd edition from the early-late 90s.
So that said, the mythology is all the work of these developers, and instead of the Judea Christian basis that Mark Rein Hagen picked (which is funny because Mark is an atheist) their mythology has nothing to do with the Old Testament and Caine and all that rot.
So if I were going to modify what D3xzalias wrote for you, I would preface the above, I would also say that there are numerous 1st generation vampires, and Vampire Zeros who would have been more potent that Caine. Tiamat and other creation level deities from mythology fit in that framework. Further the whole generation concept we discuss is more of a reference for relative age and power, but not necessarily a 1:1 translation from VtM. It is just a sort of Rosetta Stone we use to try and have a common frame of reference.
So Calisto is vastly beyond the imaginations of the current night Vampires. The vampires of the city are for the most part what would be considered fledglings, Neonates, Ancilla. Even Markus who is one of the "Elders" of the city, and leader of the local Nos, is less than 200 years old. Roland might be 8th generation on the scale of VtM, could be 7th on a stretch. Probably he is more like 8th or 9th generation though. He is probably something similar to Sharon, meaning Ventrue like for his clan/bloodline. Hell, since Sharon's sire is never discussed in the novel so far, Roland might BE her "secret" sire, which would explain the relatively light punishment she received for her first indiscretion with Andrew's daughter. It would also be just as likely that her as yet unnamed sire is some other Archon or a no name.
In any case, Calisto is the equivalent of a Methuselah of the toughest most bad assed variety. Like most of the analogous examples from WoD, she runs her own organization in this Temple and acts mostly through proxies.
A theory, which I have shared with the devs, and was not shot down *we do discuss the game and when I have something that is incorrect in theory crafting, they kindly shoot it down... is that Calisto has sired 2 childer. First was Arcas aka Plubius aka Virgil who has some means (probably from his diablerie of elders throughout the last 4600 years) is hiding who he is from Calisto. For her part, almost none of the vampires of the city know of Calisto or of vampires of her power.
Anyway, Calisto seeks ego, strength, dominance, power in her childer. Look at the last update for a lot of clues as to what she admires and what she will not tolerate. The old saying that God hates a coward applies to Calisto in spades. Arcas was a prodigy, he had an ego, he wanted power, and Calisto made the error of sharing too much too soon with him. He turned on his sire and tried to diablerize her. He failed. The "myth" covering this is that Hela, jealous of Zeus having a child with Calisto, cursed Calisto with a bear form, and Arcas hunted her without really knowing it was his mother. Zeus had to intervene and save her, and cast both Calisto and Arcas into the sky as Ursa Major-Calisto, and Ursa Minor-Arcas. That alone probably annoys Arcas as much as any part of this.
So having spectacularly failed in her first attempt at making a childe she refrained from it. Until the MC.
Now in fairness there are those who think that she may have sired dozens. I completely disagree with this. There are vampires who share the bloodline from Calisto's sire, lets call her Hera, and this is most likely where Fabian's offshoot of the bloodline comes from, though he is probably about 3500 years younger and several generations further removed from the source.
So the Source in this case would be Inanna. Now you can go back and look and you will find that I tossed Inanna's name out almost, what, maybe 8 months before that name was mentioned by the Skalds. This is because I have a ridiculous fixation on this game and a crazy chart of probable vampires and bloodlines. I had arrived at Inanna as the Vision Girl after our first choice Artemis was shot down directly by the devs, who said, that Vision Girl is the exact same position in myth and legend to Calisto, as Calisto would be to modern vampires.
So if a modern Princeps/Prince is a few hundred years old and 7th or 8th generation, and Calisto who is 4,600 years old and 4th generation is a myth to them, then an equivalent of a 1st generation bloodline founding Goddess like Inanna who is 13-15k years old is that same level of myth to Calisto.
Inanna and Ereskigal are part of a pantheon of 10k gods and goddesses. The Sumer were a prolific folk and their proto Sumer civilizations and tribes had their gods and myths that all fed into this. The thing about Ereshkigal and Inanna is they are archtypes. They set the mold. Even more iconic is Tiamat, or the Titans, or other creation level gods/myths. Without a doubt there are other iconic/archtypical gods and goddesses out there, but our story is centered around Inanna's myths.
So anyhow, take generation with a slight grain of salt. Realize we are trying to just use a common language.
Absolutely NONE of the myth from VtM is used here. The story is all original with the guys. The framework for the vampires is VtM like, or perhaps more like the live action version.
The thing with trying to lay out a generation vs timeline is not a bad attempt to generalize things, though of course it will be wildly inaccurate in a lot of cases, as any generalization would be. Most of the vampires in VtM that are running around in the modern nights are less than 500 years old. They are 8th generation or higher. The weak blooded are the most recent. That does not mean that 14k years ago there were not 8th generation vampires, they just didn't survive or they gobbled their way up the food chain.
Ok, to readdress what has really already been covered, but putting it here for inclusiveness, "Why would Inanna care about Calisto's kid?"
A very very good question.
What is the purpose of the Temple? Well, Sharon frankly doesn't really know, but has heard that they safeguard things that are important to vampire lore and history, and are religious kooks.
The Temple, and if my theory is correct, the Nos bunker, serve roughly the same purpose, which is to watch over the insanely powerful sleeping super elder vampires. Inanna and Ereshkigal. *Ereshkigal is part of the Inanna myth and so that name would be completely foreign to you unless you are a nutjob like me. When I hit the guys up with it, I will say that they were stunned. I was pretty happy with that reaction!
So it is Calisto, who is several generations and thousands of years removed from Inanna who is watching over... Inanna.
Markus' sire and whomever came before her watched over Ereshkigal. (Markus and his sire are much much much less powerful than Calisto, I postulate that his sire inherited the job from a series of more ancient vampires who grew bored or careless or both, or were similarly mistreated by Ereshkigal as her Nos bunker brood was)
Both the Nos and the Temple guard, but also supply blood to the buried mega vamps. Now this is all theory guys.....
So Inanna would care that her guardian is a bit bored, hasn't noticed a dire threat to her (Calisto) aka that being Virgil, and so is motivated to ensure she is properly served. So she manipulates Calisto and other vampires to bring the MC to her, and then further manipulates Calisto to turn him. This rejuvenates Calisto's engagement in things, and serves Inanna's purposes.
Make no mistake- All the characters in this novel are tools of Inanna, or tools of her sister Ereshkigal. Nothing more, nothing less. If she shows an interest, it is in HER best interest to do so.
Meushi Inanna is mentioned by name by the Skalds when Sharon and the MC visit. Tiamat also. Just correcting a small error in your post above.
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You were warned
Peace all
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No Sir!!!!!!
I am positively NOT referring to you at all. I actually think your statement has merit. There are a couple of folks who have insisted on inserting sexual kinks into the game as main drivers of the game. You are absolutely not one of those and I apologize for offending you, you were not my target(ssss)
Oh I see I played the base version and I didn't tell Vergil about the feral being a nos so I guess that's why I missed it.
Yeah okay I can see that. It is a bit of a leap tbh but I guess with conservation of detail in games like these I could go either way on it.
Okay thanks for the detailed post, let me first respond to this. What you say here could account for the varied time scale between generations because it took that long for the new vampires to successfully embrace their own children without being wiped out.
So there could be multiple "8th generations" where it's wiped out a bunch until it's successfully established and you go to the 9th generation being wiped out a bunch. This is still highly unusual and to me strains credibility but it's a lot better than random time differences in generations for no reason.
I feel like this is probably the weakest part of your theory as Markus doesn't seem to know he has this job or really anything about this super elder vampire. His sire apparently didn't know anything either. I guess there could have been an organization to take care of Ereshkigal at one point but there doesn't seem to be any evidence in game for this at all.
If Inanna was able to take action to ensure that she is well served by Calisto shouldn't Ereshkigal have done the same to ensure that she had good servants of Calisto's level? Even if let's say she was asleep and so just got unlucky when her servants deserted but Inanna's didn't wouldn't her first step have been to build her power base by not driving those nos to insanity? Or is she just malevolent and can't help herself?
Reading through this it feels like Inanna has the definite upper hand on Ereshkigal and they're not quite equals.
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yes Ereshkigal's equivalent of a Temple seems to be a weaker link. I am confident that the feral Nos was Markus' sire. I also think that the Nos maintained a small underground bunker that was used as their stronghold for many many years. This stronghold was located by a Nos perhaps a thousand years before or more, and then they successively died off as their bloodline mistress used them as bloodbags.
Ereshkigal killed Inanna, but was not more powerful than her in legend. Before Inanna could appear before Ereshkigal, to pay her respects on the recent death of Ereshkigal's husband, she had to pass through 7 gates. At each gate, one of her artifacts/jewels/armor/whatever were removed, and when she appeared before Ereshkigal she was murdered, placed on a hook on the wall of Ereshkigal's underworld palace. She was bled out and naked, thus fitting the Vision Girl description pretty well.
We don't know a lot yet about the vampire gods. Inanna is one of them though, and she is the Vision Girl. Her sister is the dark mistress of the underworld. While I can not provide complete proof of this yet, I am working on it
Regarding the insane Nos. No vampire is infallible in this game, that is from the devs. Ereshkigal is starving for blood, and used her thralled Nos to feed and then bring their blood back to her for her to feed. I think this need outweighed her other concerns because she desperately wants to rise BEFORE Inanna does... because Inanna is going to be looking for some payback I think.
Peace!
Now that your reasoning is duly noted I can appreciate where you are coming from, I do have an issue with that though, Many of Us enjoy the theory crafting that is done on this thread... It is unique to F95 and It is something I have come to enjoy and I want to continue this venue. Are we to expect now that you will interject you view into the mix with the intent to disrupt what is arguably a very productive atmosphere IMO as I am sure many will agree. So can we agree to try to find common ground. This thread should be big enough for all of us. If you are not interested I understand but We will continue with what we have done in the past. And if you truly are not interested in our reverse engineering then ignore us please.
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he will post disruptive posts, he won't listen to your request, and he has been doing it for a while now.